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Thread: The new generic subutex...what's the verdict?

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    The new generic subutex...what's the verdict? 
    #1
    Bluelighter dhopeless's Avatar
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    Has anyone had the new generic Subutex? They are little white pills about the size of a perk 30 (instant release oxycodone) with an 8 on one side and an arrow on the other. They are made by Midlothian Laboratories and were just released recently. They must have at most a quarter of the pill filler that Roxanne and Teva's pills do. I can't find a list of inactive ingredients, maybe someone can help me here. I'm curious because one would assume that they are safer to prep for IV use without a wheel filter if necessary (not everyone has access to them and people will shoot pills, regardless of the risks), however when I did so the resulting solution seemed to have more viscosity than the solutions I've prepped from the other brands. Also, when injected they seemed to take a minute longer to hit me than the other brands... I'm wondering if this is due to the thicker solution, it may move through the veins slower? I have not snorted them yet but a couple friends of mine have and said that they worked better than other brand. However, others said that they seemed to go through more of these pills for some reason...perhaps it's psychological; the pill is smaller and they are used to doing bigger lines...I don't know. Personally I find these to be a great improvement over the other brands, as I've always wished that a company would produce a buprenorphine tablet weighed less. I always thought the 400mgs of powder in a Roxanne, Reckitt or Teva to be unnecessary. However, it is almost impossible to cut these into 1mg doses, which is a hassle. For that reason I do end up taking more of these. Overall I love these pills and much prefer them, and will be getting these from now on. So among those that have tried these, what did you think? Again, if anyone can find a list of inactive ingredients that would be helpful.
    Last edited by dhopeless; 11-01-2012 at 01:12.
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    #2
    i want one of these bad boys
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    #3
    Bluelighter dhopeless's Avatar
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    Right, and I have a lot of them, but does anyone have any information to add?
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    #4
    I found the prescribing information for this brand here http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed...o.cfm?id=31083 .The inactives are lactose monohydrate, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate anhydrous and sodium stearyl fumarate. The cornstarch and sodium stearyl fumarate might be a problem when IVed without a micron filter, they won't dissolve in blood and can damage your heart, kidneys and lungs., though both probably aren't as bad as talc.

    I've never tried the generic bupe, is it better/stronger than suboxone since there's no naloxone? How are they snorted?
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    #5
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    If I get any - I'll micron filter them and post results. But I am going to venture a guess and say they should micron filter the same just as brand name subutex; into a clear solution.
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    #6
    Bluelighter dhopeless's Avatar
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    Thank you for the link. Well after taking these for a week I switched back to the Roxanne brand because I found myself blowing through these things like skittles. I seriously think that they are less potent, or have poor quality control. At first I loved them and they got me rocked every time. But then I started noticing that some times they would barely do anything for me. I got up to doing about 2.5 a day and realized something was wrong. When I switched back to Roxanne brand, I got way higher and am back down to only needing 1-1.5 pills per day. A lot of my friends feel the same way... these things seem to have about half the potency of the Roxanne! However, sometimes they get me wrecked...I can't figure it out. My theory is that the manufacturer is messing up the dose big time. Has anyone else noticed this?
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    #7
    The generic Subutex (Buprenorphine Hcl in both 2mg and 8mg tablets) is made by Roxane Laboratories. They contain:

    Buprenorphine HCl Sublingual Tablets are white tablets intended for sublingual administration. They are available in two dosage strengths, 2 mg buprenorphine and 8 mg buprenorphine free base. Each tablet also contains anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate.
    http://bidocs.boehringer-ingelheim.c...ngual+Tabs.pdf

    Reckitt-Benckiser is the patent holder to all (I guess most today now that the patches and subcutaneous depots etc are either on the market or in development) of the Buprenorphine products in their Brand form (Temgesic, Buprenex, Subutex, Suboxone). Brand name Subutex contains:

    SUBUTEX is an uncoated oval white tablet intended for sublingual administration. It is available in two dosage strengths, 2mg buprenorphine and 8mg buprenorphine free base. Each tablet also contains lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate and magnesium stearate.
    http://www.theodora.com/drugs/suboxo...benckiser.html

    The differences in inactive ingredients between the two is negligible. They both contain several of the most common physically destructive inactive ingredients found in pills that are used by insufflation and/or parenteral (i.e. various modes of injection- IV, IM, SC, etc) by drug users and/or drug addicts.

    To me, the physical size of the pills and amounts of each inactive ingredient isn't really important. It would be interesting for the sake of education to know the difference in weight between a single 8mg brand name Subutex and an 8mg generic Subutex, but it'd be just an intellectual excersize. Shooting pills is dangerous for a variety of reasons to begin with; shooting pills containing specifically harmful inactive ingredients that can and do lead to serious health injuries (such as Magnesium Stearate) accelerates that risk/danger.

    Micron filter all pills every time if you insist on shooting pills. Areas with chronic IV Buprenorphine addiction (Bangladesh, India, Georgia [the nation, not the US state], other parts of Central and Southern Asia and pockets of Europe) demonstrate the extreme harm associated with injecting non-micron filtered Subutex and Suboxone. And since the inactive ingredients do not vary much in anyway that would make one 'safer' to inject than the other, the same rules apply. The same things can happen to you that happen to those who shoot brand Subutex (as the Case Studies thread amply demonstrates).

    In the US, Subutex is now pretty much limited to pregnant women who are opioid addicts. I recently had this talk shoved down my throat by several pharmacists and Buprenorphine-prescribing doctors. The only other group that is likely to get Subutex or generic Buprenorphine-only tabs are those who can demonstrate a serious reaction to the Naloxone in Suboxone; and generally those symptoms can only be described, not demonstrated; so unless you're a pregnant opioid addict, or the licensed Buprenorphine doctor is running a pill mill, or someones a Drugstore Cowboy, you won't be getting generic Subutex or brand Subutex on Rx legit in the US.
    Last edited by Tchort; 15-01-2012 at 05:46.
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    #8
    Bluelighter Znegative's Avatar
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    That's so true, my doctor will not prescribe subutex to anyone but pregnant women, and she says even then she prefers them to switch to methadone during the pregnancy. Supposedly there are less risks of complications
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    #9
    Alot of doctors are misimformed/uneducated and truly beleive that since subutex doesnt contain naloxone that it is much more easily abused than suboxone and should not be prescribed to addicts.
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    #10
    Methadone has been studied probably more than any drug on the market given the politics and history of ORT in the US since the War On Doctors in the teens and '20s. I just talked to a woman who had a baby while on MMT, he didn't show WD symptoms for almost a week, but was then weened using very small amounts of Methadone (i.e. given the exact same Methadose cherry syrup most clinics dispense, only in microgram dosages) and is now a healthy 3 year old. Which is odd since medical protocol is to use Opium Tincture (i.e. Morphine)- the mother on Methadone to baby weened with tincture has been standard practice for a very long time. Not enough studies have been on Buprenorphine dependant pregnant women to give it the same seal of approval; though it's likely Buprenorphine will do just as well with pregnant women as Methadone does given their similar half-lives and effect on the mothers metabolism (i.e. no ups and downs of short acting opioids, or periods of minor withdrawal, which will injur an embryo/fetus/baby up to and including spontaneous abortion, miscarriage, etc). It's probably smart that Subutex is used in those cases, as I'm sure no studies have been done on pregnant women who take sublingual Naloxone daily during pregnancy and the effects on prenatal and post-birth issues with the child.

    Alot of doctors are misimformed/uneducated and truly beleive that since subutex doesnt contain naloxone that it is much more easily abused than suboxone and should not be prescribed to addicts.
    Unfortunately that 8 hour course doctors take to become licensed to prescribe BMT to up to 100 patients is pretty much written by Reckitt-Benckiser. The damage done by IV Suboxone around the world (and the US now that Suboxone is much more common than it used to be) should make the pharmaceutical companies (*cough* Reckitt-Benckiser), the FDA, SAHMSA, etc take another look at allowing Buprenex to be used in treatment resistant patients (i.e. those who inject their Suboxone); similar to how IV Methadone ampoules are used in the UK with syrup injectors and other treatment resistant groups. Awhile back I posted a thread containing letters and e-mails I wrote to the FDA, NAABT (the Bupe advocacy group) and Reckitt-Benckiser as well as their responses about making Buprenex available for addiction treatment in certain cases. Apparently they did consider and supposedly studied the use of Buprenex in opioid addicts in general (but not treatment resistant groups specifically) and found it didn't cease "addictive behavior" the way a regular oral/sublingual maintanence regimine does so they didn't push for its inclusion in the DATA2000 act which legalized Buprenorphine treatment for addiction; that and the fact that US politicians and doctors and society at large are so fucking prude about "allowing" addicts in treatment to use a medicine requiring injection that it was scrapped.
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    #11
    Bluelighter Fire&Water's Avatar
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    Subutex can be used in conjunction w/ a full short acting agonist to help prevent the rebound effects I am glad my Dr. does his homework...
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    #12
    Hey, just wondering if you can get any subutex. real or generic whatever. i've been on the bupe for a while and can't get any at the moment, only suboxone. wondering if they've released generic sub down in SA?
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    #13
    Bluelighter Fire&Water's Avatar
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    Subutex is available most everywhere, but is usually only prescribed for pain/chronic pain. I was able to find the new generic 'Midlothian' but it's only a bit cheaper I found that it works better, It's about the size of a 81 mg. asprin (small) & only contains a tiny bit of sugar as an innactive ingredient.
    Are you referring to South America ? I dont know the answer to that but I was always able to get Subutex & Temgesic prescribed in Mexico since the late 80's
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    #14
    Do anyone have a pic of these new pills? I think I have some but I'm not sure, and I cannot find anything on them. There small white and round. One side has an "8" on it and the other has an " -->" arrow or dart looking score, but it's not the same score as the orange ones.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by iSTONED View Post
    Do anyone have a pic of these new pills? I think I have some but I'm not sure, and I cannot find anything on them. There small white and round. One side has an "8" on it and the other has an " -->" arrow or dart looking score, but it's not the same score as the orange ones.


    That's the one, I just got them today at a Walgreens in MI. The only difference is the manufacturer, instead of Midlothian they are manufactured by Hi-Tech.

    http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed...o.cfm?id=47665

    From what I can see they have the same composition, lucky for me when my doctor prints out the script it says "Feel free to substitute generic Buprenorphine HCL if desired by patient" So whenever I go to a different pharmacy they fail to understand me when I say I DONT WANT SUBOXONE, I JUST WANT PLAIN BUPE. Of course they always tell me the script is for Suboxone and thats when I tell her to keep reading where it says I have the choice of suboxone or just plain bupe. I too noticed the difference in viscosity and no longer plan to IV but just take it orally here on out. I'll keep you posted on what I think of the potency in a week or two. Thx guys
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    #16
    Well she probably thought you were fucktarded, as theyre not even the same medication. You can't just say "I want the generic", its a totally different drug. That is if you meant "suboxone" is what you get from a Dr. and not "subutex".
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    #17
    Bluelighter Toz's Avatar
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    I have had these pills I'm pretty sure of. They have been around for a while where I live. I much prefer the usual subutex (B8) when taken as directed, it doesn't dissolve so fast under the tongue so it feels like more of the dosage gets absorbed. I've shot up both and there is absolutely no difference between them when taken that way. After all, 8mg buprenorphine is 8mg buprenorphine.
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    #18
    Bluelighter Fire&Water's Avatar
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    My pain management DR. is very educated in suboxone-subutex-full pain agonists...I am prescribed the generic subutex along with oxycodone to help keep my tolerance down and it also keeps rebound pain at bay. He even presribes the 8 mg. Hi-Tech brand and lets me quarter them (pill cutter) because of the cost savings. I think he has learned as much about buprenorphine in the 10 years I've been seeing him as I have, but I have been living with at least 50% less pain in the past 10 years than ever before. A good educated Dr. and honesty makes all the difference.

    Oh...they are no less potent than the Roxanne brand, it is addiction & snorting thats makes you "blow through them"
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    #19
    I have been on subs for over 2.5 years now and MAN! It seems like everyone in this city is on bupe now, (pills are very affluent here) (not south Florida, but its prevalent) I just tried these Hi-Tech 8mgs and they don't give me half the feeling that the Roxanne "big daddy's" do. Idk why either. It all should be the same medicine, but I feel like I have to intake every 2 hours or something. A dealer I used to score from switched to subs like 6 months ago, (but all he does is IV) and he only gets the hi-tech ones. He claims that they are better and easier to prep, but idk. I'm not really much of an IV guy. I mean if we were talking smack or something.. Yeah, that bitch is goin in the vein, but not sub man.. It doesn't even fuck you up really.. I'm so glad I have a knowledgable dr too, it really makes the experience much better. Most dr's around here give out like 90 tab scripts, and he gives out 30 at the most. Doing more isn't going to get you any higher, so what's the point really? Anyways, just my nickels worth of sense.
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    #20
    Bluelighter laCster's Avatar
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    I have been getting generic bupre for the past four or five months (subutex) and they are definitely better than that shit with naloxone. Fuck that noise, naloxone made me nauseous as hell AMD gave me raging headaches.

    Gen bupre all the wayy!
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    #21
    Greenlighter jman28's Avatar
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    I have gone from getting 90 roxi 30's/month to mdones then to suboxone and now...Finally, SUBUTEX!!! At first, I was getting the normal sixed round ones from I think the manufacturer Teva? Well I just recently got these new Hi-Techs y'all are talking about and have had them for the past 4 months. Yes, it is true you can fly thru a Rx of em. HOWEVER, in my experience this is just because since theyre smaller your mind thinks u need more but since they are the EXACT same strength as any other 8mg tex, if you remember this and just do little pieces, (I bang mine and they bang waaaay better than the larger ones) you will not run out. Anyone who thinks these are "Weaker" than the other ones is an idiot and it's in your head. I looove my new subutex and am NEVER switching back!
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    #22
    Bluelighter
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    For people with private insurance does suboxone cost a normal copay or is it way higher/ not covered? sry for OT.
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    #23
    Bluelighter Fire&Water's Avatar
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    It varies...Have your doctor write a note claiming you cannot get by without the medication, make a copy & send it to your insurance company. It may help.
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    #24
    Greenlighter jman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire&Water View Post
    Subutex can be used in conjunction w/ a full short acting agonist to help prevent the rebound effects I am glad my Dr. does his homework...
    What do you mean by "rebound effect?"
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    #25
    I'd love to know the answer to that question as well....
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