Bluelight

Thread: E-cigarette administration for opioids?

Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. Collapse Details
    E-cigarette administration for opioids? 
    #1
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    Good day folks. I just started using e-cigarettes to quit smoking and I started having some thoughts about modding the liquid. I have no knowledge of chemistry.

    The cartomizers use propylene glycol, about 0.5-1 ml per refill. The default vaporizing temperature is roughly 70c, which I would assume can be modded upwards easily. I'm wondering if it would be possible to extract an opioid from pills, put it into the liquid and vaporize it. Buprenorphine is cheap enough to waste in experimenting a little, I see it has a solubility of 17mg/ml which sounds like plenty for this purpose.

    My newbie common sense tells me water extraction, evaporate excess water and mix it with the e-liquid. Like I said, absolutely no knowledge of chemistry so my question is would this work, would it vaporize and would it absorb if administered this way?

    I'm considering this as a healthier option than IV/snorting, one that I could also do in a public place without raising suspicion. If this would be risky to my health, I won't do it.
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Bluelighter Thou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ex-staff Ex-crluelighter.
    Posts
    10,804
    I've nothing to contribute as far as contributive outcomes go, but I've often wondered this about many raw chemicals (99.5+).

    Neat Idea and I'll be checking this thread for updates.

    I'd imagine if you procured propylene glycol and a pure chemical to provide for solution (IE: no binders/fillers, something like O-desmethyl tramadol if you're deadset on opiates) and soaked the cotton (free of nicotine), it would work. Keep in mind, I am by no means an authority in these matters and you'd best be suited to wait for other replies from our seasoned ADDer's before trying ANYTHING.
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    I don't usually bump, but I don't know any other place where someone could answer this. The most important questions:

    - Do opioids absorb through the lungs? Particles that get stuck there cause problems. I would guess they do since people smoke pills.

    - What temperature would I need to vaporize? Buprenorphine is most easily available for testing, eventually other substances if this works.

    If anyone knows why the method in the original post wouldn't work, I would appreciate if you told me why.

    Thou: Some vendors sell propylene glycol, nicotine extract, flavors and pretty modular (and powerful) vaporizers. You can make your own flavor combos that way, I'll definitely be trying those as soon as I can afford them. Wouldn't properly filtered (0.2μm) buprenorphine from pills be pure? Apart from the water of course.
    Last edited by ColdNorth; 22-12-2011 at 21:29. Reason: easier to read
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    I was wondering about this myself, except I was thinking of hash. Any thoughts?
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by Valiumpirate View Post
    I was wondering about this myself, except I was thinking of hash. Any thoughts?
    That has been done, I heard someone was even selling THC cartomizers in the US through no sources. Google gives some threads on the subject.
    I would love to do that too but fooking police raided my plants couple of months ago.

    I really hope someone with knowledge of chemistry/medicine spots this. The vaporizing part might work but I'm a bit paranoid of trying it if I don't know for sure that everything involved will absorb through the lungs.
    Last edited by papasomni; 25-12-2011 at 23:08. Reason: no sources..
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    I'd guess it wouldn't work, for opiates or thc. Nicotine weighs 162g/mol and boils at just under 250 degrees C, according to wiki. Apparently at 70 degrees C the vapour pressure is high enough that enough nicotine can enter the gas phase and be inhaled. THC weighs almost twice as much, and bupe almost 3x, so I doubt you'd get significant vapourisation at 70 degrees.

    You could boost the temperature by running a higher voltage through the filament, or replacing it with a thinner filament (I don't know if that's possible, I've never seen one)

    If you need about 170 degrees for THC, I guess you'd need about 250 degrees for bupe... Other, smaller opiates are probably far more suitable for vapourisation.
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by skillet View Post
    I'd guess it wouldn't work, for opiates or thc. Nicotine weighs 162g/mol and boils at just under 250 degrees C, according to wiki. Apparently at 70 degrees C the vapour pressure is high enough that enough nicotine can enter the gas phase and be inhaled. THC weighs almost twice as much, and bupe almost 3x, so I doubt you'd get significant vapourisation at 70 degrees.

    You could boost the temperature by running a higher voltage through the filament, or replacing it with a thinner filament (I don't know if that's possible, I've never seen one)

    If you need about 170 degrees for THC, I guess you'd need about 250 degrees for bupe... Other, smaller opiates are probably far more suitable for vapourisation.
    Ah, thanks for the info. Many people seem to claim cannabis oil works, I'll try to find out what kind of equipment they used. Too bad, it would have been a nice option. I have to focus on bupe for now, trying to steer clear of other opiates for the time being. Even these 70c cartomizers get pretty hot, 3x the temperature would be nasty. I don't think the filaments in these cartomizers can handle much more than what they were designed for (not to mention my lips) but there are many different types of gear out there. The vaporizer model I'm upgrading to works differently and has an adjustable power output with some pretty powerful settings. Or I could always make a battery mod myself, a universal transformer should be able to put out the proper voltage/amperage to get it to 250c.

    I still think it's a good idea to pursue this so I'll try to find something that could do the job, there must be filaments around that can handle several hundreds of degrees, like perhaps tungsten. Anyway, thanks again for the info. I'll report back if I manage to find some high temperature gear, but that'll be in January. Other investments to be made at the moment. Happy holidays. =)
    Last edited by ColdNorth; 23-12-2011 at 21:47.
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ColdNorth View Post
    Many people seem to claim cannabis oil works, I'll try to find out what kind of equipment they used.
    Maybe it does, I was just guessing, and I seem to recall that cannabis vapourisers generally operate over around 170 degrees C...
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    worthless neck beard scum
    Posts
    52,552
    Get a 3 piece e-cig with the push button battery and seperate atomizer compartment (self loading cartridges fit on the back end).

    You can fit a tiny piece of foil on top of the burning red coils of the atomizer, keeping it clean, and the "filter" back end cartridge (3rd piece) is empty instead of having any cotton in it.

    You don't want an ecig that you have to inhale through to activate the atomizer. This wastes time, and you have far less control over the burning process of whatever is above the atomizer.

    Also, go with a blue LED light on the end (no pun intended), over the red/orange ones, because then no one even looks at you twice when you're firing it up at night or inside.
    Last edited by DexterMeth; 24-12-2011 at 04:33.
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by DexterMeth View Post
    Get a 3 piece e-cig with the push button battery and seperate atomizer compartment (self loading cartridges fit on the back end).

    You can fit a tiny piece of foil on top of the burning red coils of the atomizer, keeping it clean, and the "filter" back end cartridge (3rd piece) is empty instead of having any cotton in it.

    You don't want an ecig that you have to inhale through to activate the atomizer. This wastes time, and you have far less control over the burning process of whatever is above the atomizer.

    Also, go with a blue LED light on the end (no pun intended), over the red/orange ones, because then no one even looks at you twice when you're firing it up at night or inside.
    Yeah, wish I had bothered to lurk the e-cigarette forum before ordering a GS kit. Now I'm eyeballing the eGo-C as I'm running out of stuff to smoke. It seems to be highly liked, and a 3-part system as you describe. GLV-2 is quite tempting for the purpose mentioned ITT but can't find an EU area retailer. Putting in an order for the eGo tomorrow unless I find something even better, suggestions are welcome. =)
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    Senior Moderator
    Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion
    Philosophy and Spirituality
    ebola?'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    in weaponized form
    Posts
    20,460
    Quote Originally Posted by Home Skillet
    I'd guess it wouldn't work, for opiates or thc.
    It works fine for cannabinoids. The dispensaries in cali have started selling custom cartridges. What does this suggest about the viability of vaporizing which opioids?

    ebola

    Getting high? RTFM: Bluelight Drug FAQs | Bluelight WIKI
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    These are the components available at the vendor where I'm getting my eGo-C set:

    Ethyl Guaiacol 1% PG
    Isophorone 1% PG
    Keto Isophorone 1% PG
    Tetramethylpyrazine 1% PG
    Trimethyl Pyrazine 10% PG

    Which one would be best suited for the job? Or does it even matter? I think I want to try this even if there's a high chance of failure since it seems to be pretty much an unknown area. Bupe is all I'm willing to say I would try it on. Call me paranoid if you will.
    Last edited by ColdNorth; 25-12-2011 at 09:27.
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington USA
    Posts
    1,132
    Quote Originally Posted by ColdNorth View Post
    - Do opioids absorb through the lungs? Particles that get stuck there cause problems. I would guess they do since people smoke pills.
    Yes, anything that readily diffuses across a membrane will absorb into the lungs. Tar heroin is smoked also.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebola? View Post
    It works fine for cannabinoids. The dispensaries in cali have started selling custom cartridges. What does this suggest about the viability of vaporizing which opioids?

    ebola
    I would assume many of the alkaloid type drugs, such as opioids, would vaporize differently than the terpenoid type drugs, like THC, due to the difference in water versus fat solubility inherent in their contrasting molecular type.
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Semi Retired
    Posts
    11,887
    I've used ecigs for a year now, not a single tobacco relaspe. I make my own solution, buy charges, etc....know how to clean em, so I keep them in tip-top shape.

    I have tried them for JWHs, DMT, and other low boiling materials but they don't seem to cut it. I'd get a more precise device that can hit a specific temperature.
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion
    atara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease
    Posts
    1,910
    (At least part of) the problem is potency.

    Nicotine's active dose is around 400 micrograms. It's more potent than any other common drug save LSD. THC's active dose is more like 16 milligrams -- nicotine is 40 times as potent. Heroin is not much more potent than THC, certainly not for a tolerant user. Many other opioids are less potent. You could put fentanyl in an e-cig, or CP-55244 or AM-694.

    Reason being, with a high enough potency compound, you don't need to achieve a very high vapor pressure to get a good dose.
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    Bluelighter ColdNorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by morninggloryseed View Post
    I've used ecigs for a year now, not a single tobacco relaspe.
    Wish I could say the same. I started with Green Smoke and not only do the cartomizers stop giving out a satisfying amount of vapor really fast, the kit came with one of the two batteries broken which means that I don't always have any vapor available.

    Quote Originally Posted by atara View Post
    (At least part of) the problem is potency.

    Nicotine's active dose is around 400 micrograms. It's more potent than any other common drug save LSD. THC's active dose is more like 16 milligrams -- nicotine is 40 times as potent. Heroin is not much more potent than THC, certainly not for a tolerant user. Many other opioids are less potent. You could put fentanyl in an e-cig, or CP-55244 or AM-694.

    Reason being, with a high enough potency compound, you don't need to achieve a very high vapor pressure to get a good dose.
    I see. Thanks, this was useful.

    I'll experiment a bit with battery modding when this GS set becomes obsolete, just to see how much the filament can take. Will report back if I make any progress.

    Edit: Found a portable vaporizer that can do 190c, and it has a chamber for vaporizing herbs. I wonder what would happen if you put a pill in there, or some extracted opioid absorbed into a herb. Kind of defeats the original purpose, but as e-cigs are becoming more common you could always just say that's what it is. =)

    Here's the vapo: http://www.gotvape.com/vaporizer/por...vaporizer.html
    Last edited by ColdNorth; 27-12-2011 at 01:28.
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    worthless neck beard scum
    Posts
    52,552
    That porta-vap is just about perfect for the price, imo.

    As far as ecigs go, they look like laser pens. It looks a tad more suspicious when someone is smoking out of something that resembles an electronic sippy cup walkie talkie.
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •