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Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

after 16 yrs of doing the merry go round of heroin, methadone and jail i decided that as long as i am on methadone(and not doing benzos) i am not committing crimes and my life falls in to place. it sucks but i go to the clinic every two weeks get my bottles drop a u.a and oh well im gonna be on a medication for the rest of my life.....it beats the alternative. methadone gets a bad rap so often from people but if you plan to take it forever(like me)and have few side effects (like me) it is a literal life saver even though if i dont have it i wanna die. yes i hate the regulation but i find if i am not trying to get away with gettin" high i have no problems with the clinic.one and a half years methadone\cannabis only. thats my treatment plan and it works great for me.

Don't ever take suboxone with any other opiate/ opioid as the nalaxone in the suboxone will cause you to go into acute withdrawal and make u feel horrible....only start taking suboxone when u are already in withdrawal....some doctors are nuts these days...

Edit: this post was meant to quote nordkraft about 5 posts up....sorry mods.
this is actually a common misconception, the nalaxone is only to prevent injecting, it does not actually get in your system sublingually or orally. it is also put into other opioid agonists like talwin to avoid injecting.
 
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it's been since April and Ive gone from 110 to 35 now. Methadone saved my life and I'l be clean in no time! Obviously its a good option for some of us. Just thought I would update to give anyone an option that works for me
 
this is actually a common misconception, the nalaxone is only to prevent injecting, it does not actually get in your system sublingually or orally. it is also put into other opioid agonists like talwin to avoid injecting.

But on the other hand he will still get acute withdrawal symptoms from the Buprenorphine alone.

Have anybody tried taking their methadone rectally ? And if so what was the results?
 
A tale of caution on subject of abusing meth script,,,a friend of mine took all of his mxas script,,4 days worth,,+ a slack handfull of blues,,,he gouched for several hours with his legs crossed under himself,,,,,to long with out blood flow led to him losing both his legs,,be warned

yes brother,,it's a bitch,,my last experience was just over 2 mnths,,i used to tape tissue paper under my armpits,,then found tampax works better
i get you,,its one of the long turm effects,,although not every one seemsw to get it,,but bmost do
 
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A tale of caution on subject of abusing meth script,,,a friend of mine took all of his mxas script,,4 days worth,,+ a slack handfull of blues,,,he gouched for several hours with his legs crossed under himself,,,,,to long with out blood flow led to him losing both his legs,,be warned

yeah methadone is dangerous. my friend OD'ed not too long ago by mixing benzos methadone (he had taken it 3 days in a row) and liquor. so sad
 
true true, you have to be in FULL wd before taking any buprenorphine and if yer on methadone you have to lower your dose to at least 30mgs to do even that.
 
But on the other hand he will still get acute withdrawal symptoms from the Buprenorphine alone.

Have anybody tried taking their methadone rectally ? And if so what was the results?
i know people who do this with everything and it works quite well from what i hear, i really havnt actually done it myself but consider this; a doctor once told me if i ever was unable to inject and needed to fix like asap to just break the needle off the syringe and insert it into my rectum about 3 inches and inject and he says it should work just as well, my freind also says this.(my freind has no veinsleft and his jugs are all totally scarred up so this came out of necessity for him but he says he wouldnt go back even if he could). i would say at worst you dont absorb all of it and best case you do and it works great, make sure to hold it up there though.
 
Rectal administration will result in a small increase in time till max plasma levels (probably 30 to 45 mins earlier, so ~1 hour 30 minutes instead of ~2 hours). The bioavaliablility will be lower with rectal administration (~70 [as low as ~50]) than oral (~85 [as low as 50, as high as 95]), IV (100), or nasal administration (85 [as low as 75 as high as 95]. The duration will be shorter as well. So, its almost not worth it to try rectal administration unless you are struggling with nausea. If you really need the methadone to kick in quick, go with nasal administration (assuming you have pills). Dissolve the pills in h2o (~1.5mL per 10mg pill), filter the liquid to remove the binders, then using an oral syringe administer ~.100mL - .150mL in each nostril, wait till the nostril is roughly dry/able for another application and do it again till you have no more solution. It will burn a little bit, but if you are trying to get out of WD ASAP, it is worth it. Take your time as even if it takes you 30 minutes to water line all of it, you'll still get out of WD faster than if you rectally or orally administered it. With nasal administration it takes ~7-12 minutes till peak plasma levels. this is totally worth it if you need to get out of WDs asap.

yeah methadone is dangerous. my friend OD'ed not too long ago by mixing benzos methadone (he had taken it 3 days in a row) and liquor. so sad

Methadone is inherently dangerous . It's danger comes from irresponsible use and ignorance. Combining drugs, especially when warnings about certain combinations are discussed by doctors prescribing the medication, the pamphlets with medication, all over the web, etc. Methadone can and is used very safely with minimal risks (over course like all meds they have some small percentage of risks - in methadones case, long QT syndrome.). If you take methadone, do not consume alcohol, benzos, or any other depressants with it with out medical super vision. I take methadone with alprazolam (a killer for alot of people), but I don't have any issues because I take my doses responsibly. I don't consume hundreds of mg of methadone on top of mgs of alprazolam and who knows how much alcohol.

Now I'm not trying insult the death of a friend, as it is real sad. I remember hearing about a guy in one of my classes in highschool ODing from methadone and likely alcohol, and I've seen the stats from different states about ODs from its use. However, it shouldn't be demonized, and the harm reduction needs to be pushed even harder to prevent these type of tragic evens from happening.
 
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I too had a friend OD from methadone/xanax combo but was taking the 4mg bars with double dose of methadone. He couldn't tolerate his life with prescribed dose so he went into drugs induced "Twilight Zone" which you may come back from... and you might not. Definitely not worth the risk if you value life. I'm prescribed 2mg sub and 1mg K-pin which doesn't create a nod so it's safe according to my Dr.
 
If you tell your dr you have anxiety and are on methadone goodbye benzos lol....my dr doesnt know im on methadone so thats why i have a rx for 2 bars a day. tho he practically pulled out his rx pad and was like how many you want? so im thinking if i told himi am on 110mgs of methadone he would just tell me to be careful.i dont plan on telling him tho because i have been on the same dose of xanax as long as i have been on the same dose of methadone and i take it all as directed and i function fine. dont sit around nodding out or anything like some people.
 
Anyone who ennjoys the benzo and methadone combos a little crazzy. personally the nod one achieves from abusing methadone is dangerous as hell. It feels like it anyway. Even sometimes when you just start. Shit--I dont think i ever drank on methadone for aA year until I had been on the clinic...
 
If you tell your dr you have anxiety and are on methadone goodbye benzos lol....my dr doesnt know im on methadone so thats why i have a rx for 2 bars a day. tho he practically pulled out his rx pad and was like how many you want? so im thinking if i told himi am on 110mgs of methadone he would just tell me to be careful.i dont plan on telling him tho because i have been on the same dose of xanax as long as i have been on the same dose of methadone and i take it all as directed and i function fine. dont sit around nodding out or anything like some people.

at my clinic if you are on a benzo your doc has to be informed that you are on methadone otherwise your DIRTY.
 
Single Use Dosing Question:

If one were to take 20mg ONCE, what would it equate to in an equianalgesic dose of morphine? Also, how much would one need to take to equate to 120-150mg of oral morphine?
 
Since I'm out of the hell on earth that was those 6 days of inpatient start of methadone treatment, I gotta say, skimming through this and other threads. Is the doctor I'm seeing a complete retard (too conservative for no reason) ? I was shooting between 16 to 56mg a day of dilaudid (16 was the minimum to feel comfortable). I was started on FIFTEEN mg of methadone and I left the clinic with a script of 30mg for a week, I need to meet the doctor every wednesday where my dose will be upped according to how badly I feel.

I can't say I feel horrible, but right now I'm feeling my dexedrine much more than any opiate, although I have pinhead sized pupils...da fuck. They aim at putting me on 60mg of the 'done for a few months then slowly titrate me down to nothing over a year. Like what the fuck, 80mg of chronically ingested methadone is equal to an IV shot of 15mg of dilaudid...the closest to what I was actually taking, 60 being a big whoppin' 11.25 IV shot of dilaudid a day, if I understand things well.

Sorry for the swearing and the teenager-ish posting style but i'm so irritated by everything right now that I can't really post the way I usually do, here or elsewhere.. pfft, 30mg of methadone, srsly..
 
30mg is a pretty standard starting point. Its for your safety and for their butts. 30mg should be able to get ride of most WD symptoms from even hardcore habits. Also it takes about 6 days for the 30mg methadone dose to start fully working like it should. so it takes a little bit of time. If after a week it still doesn't help, they will up your dose.

Also equivalent doses with methadone and other opioids isn't straight forward like switching to say morphine from hydromorphone. Generally you do a equivalent dose then subtract 25% of that dose for the appropriate methadone dose. Then you increase from there.
 
30mg is a pretty standard starting point. Its for your safety and for their butts. 30mg should be able to get ride of most WD symptoms from even hardcore habits. Also it takes about 6 days for the 30mg methadone dose to start fully working like it should. so it takes a little bit of time. If after a week it still doesn't help, they will up your dose.

Also equivalent doses with methadone and other opioids isn't straight forward like switching to say morphine from hydromorphone. Generally you do a equivalent dose then subtract 25% of that dose for the appropriate methadone dose. Then you increase from there.

Good post.

@The_Real_Oblivion,
The thing with methadone is that you're not going to need a dose equivalent to the total sum of Hydromorphone (or any other opiate you may have used) used in a day, but rather, how much you used per shot. So basically if you were shooting 16mg of Hydromorphone, whatever the equivalent dose of methadone would be (I'm getting different numbers on every equivalency chart I look at), then that would be the dose which should theoretically hold you, as methadone has a half life ranging from 24-48 hours.

Another thing to consider is that while a certain dose of methadone may not hold you NOW, after a week things will change as the methadone will have built up in your system by this point (it takes about a week or two for most people to stabilize on MMT).

All that being said, 15mg is a pretty low dose for someone with as large of a habit as yours, but 30mg is really the average starting dose at methadone clinics. I wouldn't immediately start raising your dose up either unless you are in true agony. Granted 30mg may not be enough for you, but you don't want to immediately start pushing towards 100mg & up either, as you're going to have to get off the stuff at some point.
 
Good post.

@The_Real_Oblivion,
The thing with methadone is that you're not going to need a dose equivalent to the total sum of Hydromorphone (or any other opiate you may have used) used in a day, but rather, how much you used per shot. So basically if you were shooting 16mg of Hydromorphone, whatever the equivalent dose of methadone would be (I'm getting different numbers on every equivalency chart I look at), then that would be the dose which should theoretically hold you, as methadone has a half life ranging from 24-48 hours.

Another thing to consider is that while a certain dose of methadone may not hold you NOW, after a week things will change as the methadone will have built up in your system by this point (it takes about a week or two for most people to stabilize on MMT).

All that being said, 15mg is a pretty low dose for someone with as large of a habit as yours, but 30mg is really the average starting dose at methadone clinics. I wouldn't immediately start raising your dose up either unless you are in true agony. Granted 30mg may not be enough for you, but you don't want to immediately start pushing towards 100mg & up either, as you're going to have to get off the stuff at some point.

It's true i'm feeling better after 7 days today, but yes, 15mg to start was ridiculous, that was just day 1, then 20 for 3 days and 25 for 3 days and now 30 for a week, I cannot raise it till next wednesday even if I wanted to...so yeah. A positive note is that the d-methadone's NDMA antagonism is making me feel my dexedrine at prescribed doses again, which is amazing.
 
^yea, when I don't take my methadone, I only get negative side effects from amphetamines.
 
Also it should be noted chronic methadone admistration and acute methadone admistration have different conversions. Like I mention earlier, it takes a few days of continual use for the methadone to build up to its peak level that you sustain. When converting doses at that point, a lower methadone dose from chronic use = the same dose of another opioid as a higher acute methadone dose. Methadone really isn't something that can easily be converted into another opioid. They have some sites that help you figure it out with morphine (which you then use to convert to other opioids), which you can easily find by googling. The conversion with morphine isn't linear. Its sort of a slope, so if you are using 10mg of methadone, the conversion should be about 30mg of morphine, but when converting 100mg of methadone to morphine, its not gonna be 300mg of morphine, as like I said, its not linear. (opioid conversion calculators SUCK for finding methadone equivalent doses, so don't bother using them. Also trying to calculate how much you should have is not the right way to go. don't look online to see how much you should be taking, let the methadone itself tell you how much you need. So keep going to the clinic and rise your dose based on actual need, not expectation.)

Another thing. You are not supposed to get high on methadone, so when they give you methadone, they are trying to give you enough to be out of WD and eliminate cravings. Not make you feel like you were taking shots of hydromorphone all day.

https://www.compassionandsupport.org/pdfs/professionals/pain/methadone_dose_conversion_guideline.pdf

note - it looks nicer in the pdf, but if people are to lazy to look at the link, here is the info. This is also just one of many sites talking about dose conversions.

Methadone Dose Conversion Guidelines
Timothy Quill M.D. and Nicole Kuderer M.D.
Palliative Care Program - University of Rochester Medical Center
Advantages: Potency, infrequent dosing, effect on neuropathic pain, usable in renal failure, low cost
Disadvantages: Variable t ½, can accumulate with high doses, difficult equianalgesic conversion
Direct Morphine-Methadone Conversion *
24 hour total dose of oral morphine Conversion ration oral morphine to oral methadone
• < 30 mg * 2:1 (2 mg morphine to 1 mg methadone)
• 31-99 mg * 4:1
• 100-299 mg * 8:1
• 300-499 mg * 12:1
• 500-999 mg * 15:1
• >1000 mg * 20:1
(*Fisch and Cleeland. Managing Cancer Pain in Skeel ed. Handbook of Cancer Chemotherapy. 6
th
ed., Phil, Lippincott, 2003, p 663)
Some caveats:
• Give q 6h first day for faster onset, and then BID or TID in divided doses
• Use added caution in higher doses, as half life may increase even further
• Always advise to “hold dose for sedation”
• Generally don’t increase daily dose more often than q 4-7 days
• Remember, small dose changes can have major effect on blood level
• Initial doses should never exceed 240 mg methadone per day; if you are approaching this dose,
consider giving 30 mg q 3 h prn, hold for sedation
• Increase methadone levels with antivirals, keto or fluconazole, cipro, emycin
• Decrease methadone levels with dilantin, tegretol, steroids, rifampin, chronic etoh
Morphine-Methadone Conversion (Morley-Markin Model)
• Give 10% of the total daily morphine dose q 3h prn (hold for sedation)
• N.B. Dose should never exceed 30 mg q3h prn to start
• Can give an additional 2 doses prn bringing the total daily number of doses to 10
• Day 6, take the average daily dose given over the last 48 hours; give as divided dose BID or TID
Some additional caveats about Morley-Markin:
• Relatively simple, but need very reliable patient/family/staff, as risk of taking too much is high
• Dose calculations at 360 mg oral morphine radically different (MM would be methadone 30 mg q
3h prn; standard conversion would be 30 mg per day!)
What to do about prn’s?
• Maintain short acting medication if you have one that works, or
• Give 1/6 to 1/10 of total daily methadone dose 2-3 times per day maximum
• Remember, small dose changes of methadone have large impact if taken regularly
Methadone to Morphine Conversion
• Minimal data; often difficult given the multiple receptors that methadone affects
• Start with oral methadone: oral morphine of 1:1 to 1:3
• Be prepared to increase dose rapidly
Practical Facts
• Pills 5, 10, 40 mg; Liquid 1mg/cc, 2mg/cc, 10mg/cc; Parenteral 10mg/cc; Parenteral:eek:ral 1:2
• Cost of methadone: 1/10 MS Contin, 1:15 Oxycontin, 1/20 Duragesic
• Get help if converting from large doses of other opioids, if converting to IV, or if inexperienced
Some Key References
1. Gazelle G et al. Methadone for pain: Fast Fact #75. J Palliat Med. 2004;7(2).
2. von Gunten C. Methadone: Starting dosing information: Fast Fact #86. J Palliat Med. 2004;7(2)
3. Bruera E. et al: Methadone use in Cancer Patients with Pain: A Review. Journal of Palliative Medicine 2002;5(1):127-138
4. Bruera E. et al. JCO 2004; 22:185-192 5. Moryl N. et al. Pain 2002; 96:325-328
6. Nicholson AB. et al. Cochrane Library 2003 7. Mellar PD et al. Suort Care Cancer 2001; 9:73-83
8. Mancini I. et al. Current Opinion in Oncology 2000; 12:308-313
9. Mercadante S. et al. Support Care Cancer 2003; 11:3260331 10. Bruera E. et al. JCO 2004; 22:185-192
11. Moryl N. et al. Pain 2002; 96:325-328 12. Mercadante S. et al. JCO 2001; 11:2898-2904
 
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