The Big & Dandy 25I-NBF Thread

[NMR-Chemist]

I downloaded the paper and searched the site hour 15 minute - nothing! It's a linking loop that just brings you back to where you started, so I give up!

 

[Erny]

NBOH derivative doesn't work so well (not an HBA) despite having otherwise good affinity and efficacy at PI hydrolysis

What is meant by "working well" here? They are just as potent as NBOMes when being tested in vivo.

O-cyclized derivatives such as the dihydrofuran,dihydrobenzofuran work well

What is the source of your confidence in this? Our empirical data says the opposite. And there have been no real proof of 2-OMe hydrogen bonding with anything in the active site as far as I am aware.

That said I'm interested whether a halogen can work anyway, it might even be more interesting if it can.

There is a way to work for it. Not by hydrogen bonding, but by activating the benzene ring it is attached to, and its hydrogens at 5 and 6 positions. For a better interaction with Phe339.

 

[dr.psilo]

If you are looking for an extensive summary of human, rat, 5HT2A/2C, and 5HT2A mutant receptor binding affinities and IP activities/efficacies for a number of agents, you might want to check out the appendices of the dissertation of the first author of that Mol. Pharm. paper:

Towards a biophysical understanding of hallucinogen action
by Braden, Michael Robert, Ph.D., Purdue University, 2007 , 176 pages; AAT 3287241

The following is a ProQuest link which should allow you to download a pdf for free, but you may have to be on a university or other library subscribing IP address to access it:

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=1417800971&sid=2&Fmt=2&clientId=48297&RQT=309&VName=PQD

No synthesis information, only pharmacology.

aloha
dr.psilo

 

[Erny]

I've seen it. There, in this paper, they wrote they did not found 2-OMe to form an H-bond with Asn343 like they expected. And some of their ligands proved to be inactive in human animal. They're writing about some binding affinities etc they have measured in vitro, I am talking about testing this in vivo.

 

[Erny]

I'll cite what is related to our discussion from that dissertation

If the hypothesis is valid that N6.55(343) interacts with the amide oxygen of ergolines and the polar ortho-substitution of the N-Benzyls, one would expect a marked decrease in binding affinity and/ or functional activity at the h5-HT 2A/N343A mutant receptor for these compounds. Surprisingly, this effect was not observed. As indicated in Figure 4.8, the affinity for LSD actually increased slightly, the other ergolines and half of the N-Benzyls were indistinguishable from wild type, and the remaining N-Benzyls had only slight decreases; the potencies for the ergolines and most of the N-Benzyls were decreased, but only slightly. As with affinity, the changes of intrinsic activity were either slight or indistinguishable from wild type, with the exception of LS D, where there was a -25% shift, and 25I-NB, which actually increased slightly.

- p. 71

 

[SweetGreg]

I can Acquire this

Hey guys,

I lurk here 24/7 but never post, but I am intrigued with this compound. NMR-Chemist, did you consider tolerance by chance? I know when researching 25i-NBOMe, waiting only 2 hours after one dose is enough for a HUGE tolerance build up that can linger for 1-2 weeks dependent on dose. Much worse than tolerance developed by Lucy or Boomers.

Either way, I have a legitimate source for pure 25I-NBF but still can't find much on it beyond this thread. I can get a 25mg sample, was considering this and possibly researching 3.5-5mg.

 

[NMR-Chemist]

Hey guys,

I lurk here 24/7 but never post, but I am intrigued with this compound. NMR-Chemist, did you consider tolerance by chance? I know when researching 25i-NBOMe, waiting only 2 hours after one dose is enough for a HUGE tolerance build up that can linger for 1-2 weeks dependent on dose. Much worse than tolerance developed by Lucy or Boomers.

Either way, I have a legitimate source for pure 25I-NBF but still can't find much on it beyond this thread. I can get a 25mg sample, was considering this and possibly researching 3.5-5mg.

Yep, I have considered tolerance but it wasn't it. I took way too much to explained the weak activity by plain tolerance alone. Also, I finally measured the NMR and found evidence that it is actually the 4F-isomer.

Here's the 1H-NMR

The 13C-APT-NMR

The compound me and psykap had was the 4F-isomer. To distinguish between the two isomers, let call the 4F-isomer 25I-NB4F.

 

[MattPsy]

Odd why someone would misrepresent this substance, 2 vs 4-fluorobenzaldehyde aren't much different in price.

 

[NMR-Chemist]

They probably already had some excess of 4-fluorobenzaldehyde from 4-FA production and decided to turn it into money. Since virtually nothing is known about the original 25I-NBF, people would not even realize they're being cheated.
At least, that's my humble interpretation.

 

[Solipsis]

From what little SAR information we have, this is probably not nearly as active as other similar compounds, right?
Now after have said this: people who have this (I probably will have some of this positional 4F isomer in a while) should treat this as if it is every bit as potent, not jump in higher!
I heard that electronegativity on that side is not very good for activity, at the very least I think that could be deducted from studies involving N-benzylated 5-HT agonists.
Fluor is a small one so perhaps it doesn't really differ that much from normal N-benzyl-2C-I, that side may not interact much with the receptor pocket anyway.

 

[sn23]

I think the 4-fluoro isomer should be a bit less potent than the straight N-Benzyl variant, for the fluor would draw electron density from the aromatic ring, lessening the strength of aromatic interaction; and the hydrogen bond acceptor at the o-position is missing obviously. But as often stressed, I'm certainly no expert in that field. Of course start reasonably low.

 

[~NaStYNaI~]

will be receiving 10mg of this as a sample in a month or so

 

[Fritztamine]

anybody have any further information on this yet I am eager to find some reports it has sat in my drawer for far too long

 

[alantis360]

25b-nbf hcl was inactive for me. Complete dud. Took a gamble getting this over the nboh. I tried the nboh and its pretty decent gonna stick with that.

 

[tryp2fun]

25b-nbf hcl was inactive for me. Complete dud. Took a gamble getting this over the nboh. I tried the nboh and its pretty decent gonna stick with that.

How much did you try? The NBF's are much less potent than the NBOH's and NBOMEs. It probably will be active around 10-12 mg, if it is anything like the corresponding unsubstituted NB. Of course, a careful titration is in order!

 

[alantis360]

I still need to play around more. I did in-sulfate 12 mgs and got effects(maybe comparable to like 500ug of 25i say) so looks like doses are gonna start at the 10mg range? Would really like to hear from anyone else that has looked at the nbf.

 

[StickyChron]

This seems to be available now, I was wondering if anyone has nailed down the safety profile of this compound? Is 10-12mg actually the dosage range?

 

[trychomes]

No its much lower. Like 1/2 to 1mg

 

[AlphaOdure]

No its much lower. Like 1/2 to 1mg

huh? got any sources or experimentation to back this up? You're going against a lot of data & anecdotal reports in this thread? You sure you're not confusing this with 25i-NOBMe??

 

[anz]

25i-nbf is dud 4 sure. I had 250mg of it. 1st time I snorted 20mg, got mild euphoria just for an hour. 30min ago I snorted my last 50mg it still burns in back of my nostrils, not bad but annoying. No euphoria, no visuals, mild nausea, feels like crap amphetamine.
Edit: 1hr later baseline, even pupils did not dilate during this 50mg episode.