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NBOME & LSD permanent effects. I need help understanding what maybe happened to me.

A

Altered Carbon

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Oct 21, 2011
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NBOME & LSD --> permanent effects

Dosed 25i and 25c NBOMe 1-2 times per week for 5-6 weeks. On the final week I did LSD + 25i (25i about 2 hours into the LSD trip).

I decided that I had enough and wanted a 2 week break to get back to baseline.

Now 5 weeks after my last dose I still feel some mild but terrible effects. I need to know what has happened to my brain and if there are any solutions.

The effect is hard to describe (its similar effect I felt from MDMA comedowns). If I make a sudden eye movement or head movement or hear a loud sound it causes a 'startle' response, where before I would not have had a startle response. Like a reverberation from my head to my hands and feet. Slight tingle in my feet like mild pins-and-needles. Slight dissociation from my senses.

I don't want to focus too much on the symptoms / effects because they are too hard to put into words for me. My focus for now is to know what has potentially happened to my brain. Is it possible the NBOMe has lesioned my brain? Over-stimulation of a neural pathway has caused a permanent down-regulation? Has a molecule of NBOMe become stuck in there somewhere? Could the LSD + NBOMe together caused an issue?

I was thinking to go ahead and do some LSD on its own, to see if I can flush out the system or somehow 'reset' things, but I fear it could exacerbate the problem. I thought the problem was fading away recently but today the effects seems stronger than yesterday so its got me fairly worried what could happen in the future. Could it gradually get worse? Cause early onset Alzheimer's or Parkinson's? Can I do psychedelics ever again? Is the damage already done, or possibility of full recovery and feeling normal again.

If you know someone who studied biology, chemistry, or psychology at college please see if they can post here as I really appreciate a scientific approach on this. With that being said anyone is welcome to put ideas/knowledge forward. I'm not looking for either sympathy or "what were you thinking".. I'm only seeking an explanation what might have happened to me and what might be a sensible next approach.... TIA.
 
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I'm no expert but what you're describing sounds a lot like "brain zaps" which occurs in SSRI discontinuation syndrome. It's possible that you just put your serotonin system under a lot of stress by taking the NBOMe, which is a phenethylamine. It will probably fade with time but for now you could try supplements like 5-HTP, L-tryptophan, L-tyrosine, or St. John's Wort. If you're comfortable talking to your doctor you might even be able to get an SSRI prescribed and see if that helps.

I find it unlikely that you did any permanent physical damage!
 
I experienced similar episodes after a week of heavy MDXX usage along with dmt and LSD. For me 5htp and just waiting it out caused it to eventually fade. I was a big etard back in the day so I experienced lots of the serotonin related problems. Best of luck to you and do keep us updated on your situation.
 
given the relationship that class of drugs has with bringing out latent schizophrenia and the fact that schizophrenia is related to the startle response being altered ill post this. The
disassociation is also a symptom strongly correlated with first episode schizophrenia as it sensory changes.


http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/57/6/609.pdf
 
#2 and #3 thank you for sharing, makes sense and sheds light on some hope for normality, after 5 weeks of this symptom hope is of much value. #4 thanks too, scary what you are saying. I'll assume worst case and hope for best case scenario for now. Also thanks to all for your kind approach, I appreciate the thought and care you put in to these replies.
 
Hi Altered Carbon, sorry to hear that you're having these nasty side effects after using psychedelics. It really sucks when something we enjoy so much can turn in to something so unpleasant. Firstly I just wanted to clear up that although bben raises an interesting point about symptoms of schizophrenia, please remember that there are MANY symptoms of schizophrenia and many different ways that schizophrenia manifests. From what you've described to us here, I think it's fairly unlikely that is what is going on with you. If you are concerned however, or if your symptoms get worse or if you start having more/different symptoms, please do not hesitate to speak to your doctor about this.

It is also really really important to note that whatever your drug use has done to your brain, the effects are not permanent. Please know that you haven't done any lasting damage. The brain is immensely resilient and is very capable of repairing any damage we do to it from drugs. Especially if your binge was about 5-6 weeks, I would expect that gradually your symptoms will begin to subside. How long will it take? I don't know, everyone is different. But my main piece of advice would be to abstain from ALL recreational substances until you are back to normal. I know you mentioned maybe trying LSD on its own to try and "reset" the system, but man, that's not how it works unfortunately :) I really think you should lay off all drugs for a good few months at the very least. Even when you do feel ready to try psychedelics again, take it nice and slow, and one substance at a time.

There are other things you can do to try and speed up the recovery process. Try to do some moderate exercise 3 or 4 times a week (not sure if you already do this?), make sure you maintain a healthy diet with lots of fresh fruit and vegies (especially green leafy vegetables) and lean meat. Stay well hydrated (drink 1.5-2L of water per day), and if you like you could even take some supplements like fish oil which can help with brain function (there are lots of other supplements that are said to be good for assisting brain function, maybe google it if you're interested). Also ensure you keep socialising, don't hide yourself away in your room/house (as tempting as that might be! :)), get out and meet up with friends, and exercise your brain by reading books or doing some research or something like that. Keep your brain active.

If you're still wondering why this happened to your brain I think The Plague's suggestion could be very valid, but I doubt anyone on here will know how to answer that with 100% certainty. The best thing you can do is to look after yourself and hopefully you will be back to normal very soon. Then, and only then, should you consider tripping again.

As I said earlier if you're still concerned or if your symptoms just aren't getting better, please don't hesitate to seek professional help, okay? And of course you can keep us updated with how you're going as well. Take care <3
 
Hey bben, I feel the need to critique just a little.
I couldn't get the pdf to open for some reason, so I am not completely aware of what you posted...
But I wanted to point out that the 'startle' response that is altered in schizophrenics is measured in a unique way.
For most people, a small warning sign will prevent startling.

To test a person, they sound a beep, followed by a much louder beep.
In normal people, the first beep prepares them and they are not startled.
In schizophrenic patients, this warning mechanism just doesn't tend to work so startle response happens anyways.

I don't want the OP to be overly concerned, because schizophrenia is not a well-understood condition.
Many drugs, esp. amphetamines (inc. MDMA) and psychedelics can cause psychological problems that MIMIC schizophrenia.
But there is such an overlap that a 'clinical' diagnosis is withheld for a period of ONE YEAR abstinence, minimum.

You are correct to bring it up, though.
Schizophrenics are often quite easily startled, esp. when having a psychotic episode.
But lots of other brain malfunctions can cause the severe dopamine imbalance that is seen with schizophrenia.
And damage to the serotonin system can DEFINITELY cause dopamine imbalance!
And serotonin is implicated in schizophrenia, along with a LONG list of other psychiatric, depressive, psychotic, and digestive ailments...
 
Go and see a doctor if you are worried. I would ignore some of the above posts, from your original post there are absolutely no symptoms that would even come close to a doctor or psychiatrist diagnosing shizophrenia. The startle response paper someone linked to has nothing to do with what you describe, thats related to very specific conditions to do with the rate of cognition realting to emotions effecting heart rate and other factors when the persons emotional state is changed suddenly.

I suffered from brain zaps as you describe for a good week after an extremely irresponsible MDMA binge. They would happen especially as I was falling asleep, especially when I moved my eyes suddenly and especially when I was startled. Feels like an electric shock, it would start in my brain and end in my feet, but be so quick that it was hard to tell where it started and where it finished. Horrible feeling, but it did subside.

People who suffer from this same side effect are people who are discontinuing too quickly from SSRI anti-depressants and people that abuse MDMA (and other strongly serotonin acting drugs). Try taking multivitamins for a bit incase you are deficient in something, stay healthy and fit and report back here.

edit: As for the numb feeling to your senses this sounds like a mild case of derealization/deperonalization. I've also had this before, not only did I feel numb physically to my senses but also to emotional events. Happened for about two weeks when I abruptly stopped using cannabis after prolonged use, combined with moderate use of BZP. After sleeping well and being healthy and drug free it vanished and has never returned.
 
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Update:

Two weeks of L-Tryptophan + co-factors (vitamn B etc), SAM-e 400mg + Tyrosone. Also mentioned it to my Doc.

Result: its taking the edge of the symptoms but that is all.

The present symptoms: Hypersensitive to abrupt sounds. Even quiet sounds if they are unexpected it sends a startle response down my spine, arms, legs. Even when I swallow my own saliva, the sound of changing pressure in the ear (try it and see for your-self) is enough to send a mild startle sensation through my body. Its about 8 weeks since my last trip (and my total number of weeks where I tripped was 6).

Also an uncomfortable inner brain feeling when I try to sleep too long in the morning. Especially when I roll over, move around. L-Tryptophan or SAM-e mixture seems to have dampened this effect for now though... will be interesting to see if it returns when I stop taking them, or when I sleep-in again.

That's it for the update. If I ever solve this riddle and get fixed, will let you all know.
 
it seems to me in my totally unexpert opinion that your time with recreational drugs like acid,E,even weed has come to an end. I didnt heed my warnings and believe the drugs i took when 17/18 ruined my mental health permenantly. Dereal/personilsation is a very real and debilitating illness ime. try and stay away for a few years at least man, half a joint sends me mental now ,never mind a trip. best wishes sorry bout spelling.
 
Good advice, thank you. The auditory system in humans has direct pathways to the amygdala, brain stem and basically all the core areas of the brain, so it is a worry for the auditory startle reflex to be affected on the long term. And also the associated brain pain during extended sleep. Cognitive and thought processes are all as normal from my own observations though.

What I really want is someone from the Advanced Drug Discussion forum to check this out. Like specifically how can a 5-HT2a antagonist such as nbome or lsd result in a long term effect such as this?
 
Hey, just wanted to say that I would be very surprised if your effects lasted longer than a year or two AT WORST. Nbome on its own is taxing on the brain, but you get good bang for buck :D but add LSD and you have a ravenous combo that devours much of your brain juice. I took this combination 2 weeks ago and can still feel cognitive effects from it, very similar to MDMA type ones, which tells me they are of serotonergic nature, which means your brain WILL recover. but ABSOLUTELY NO MORE SEROTONERGIC DRUGS UNTIL THEN ;) you can smoke pot and take GABA stuff (liquor, ketamine, benzos etc) and dopaminergic stimulants (cocaine, meth, mdpv etc) only in extreme moderation but absolutely no trips.

Hang in there and PLEASE update this thread as your symptoms improve :) it will give a good timeline for others out there experiencing this distressing effect.
 
Tell me about it.. I ordered .5 g of 25i-NBoME & some Butylone and went thru all of it in about 2 weeks.. mostly throwing it on a foil eyeballed along with a healthy dose of a Butylone.. a lot was given away, a lot was just eaten (i know it's inactive.. but i developed a theory that it's a different drug orally and began testing it extensively..) All of the physiological effects you mentioned were there to a degree you can't imagine.. to make matters worse, about a week into the binge I watched Zeitgeist and started going to some of the seediest conspiracy theory websites you can imagine.. What this resulted in was about 2 weeks of complete insanity. I woke up and instantly was "tripping" so to speak. I smoked weed and dulled the effects with alcohol, and it came to the point where one hit of high potency marijuana made me break out into psychosis. I almost called the cops and had myself 51-50'd but never did, luckily..
 
...

I bought some Nbome 25Cs online just to experiment. Years ago I had a drug addiction first through marijuana and later MDMA with a group of friends, ravers etc. I just thought I'd report that I feel that it's healed my mind somehow, I don't know if I had a total disorder or trouble communicating after having all those drugs but this one Nbome reset my brain somehow.

To give more detail actually I bought five blotters 1500ug each I think. At first I had a whole one about 6 weeks ago, wasn't the best idea as the distributor had even warned me to have a quarter at a time, so I had thoughts of suicide and just wasn't really the same. Then last weekend I had two quarters and the whole trip I felt like I was remembering who I was and I just thought what am I doing here, I felt as though I wasted 10-15 years of my life, but I'm happy now to be back in this state and don't want it to go away. I don't know if I was traumatised or it straightened out some neurons somehow or just totally fried my brain till that point in my life :) but I'm sort of relieved. Now I don't know if I have more if I will shift into another state so I'm not going to take the risk, it's as if some blockage cleared or something. I really feel that I shouldn't be messing with drugs whereas a week ago I was really careless about dumping anything and trying something out.
 
i know this is very old but this happened to me too i believe. In Argentina they sell Nbome as LSD (even tho i knew it was nbome..) i did about half, then, after tree weeks i did a quarter, then the other weekend i did another quarter and then the other weekend a little bit more than a quarter but not a half it was like a quarter plus half another quarter. I havent consumed nothing at all (not even weed) since then (the last time i consumed was almost 6 weeks ago). I was experiencing anxiety, have some troubles to fall sleep, and i usually wake up before planned (for example 5 or 6 in the morning) sometimes sweaty. Sometimes i also start shacking like a mofo. Food that helps with the serotonin makes it better (chocolate, tomatoes, coffee, bananas, tea, etc). I would like to know how it ended up for you Altered Carbon, and if someone could hava any idea of what happened to me (if its the same that what happened to Altered Carbon) ty! :/
 
Took some LSD about 3 weeks ago. I had a great trip and came down completely afterwards, but about 3 weeks later I was hit with a CRAZY anxiety attack that lasted for a full week. It was awful. Since then I've been better but I still get really anxious sometimes and am just not as happy as I used to be. I have HPPD and depersonalization, I really just dont feel like myself these days. Will these symptoms go away? I could really use some advice, this has been hard
 
DistyBoi said:
Go and see a doctor if you are worried. I would ignore some of the above posts, from your original post there are absolutely no symptoms that would even come close to a doctor or psychiatrist diagnosing shizophrenia. The startle response paper someone linked to has nothing to do with what you describe, thats related to very specific conditions to do with the rate of cognition realting to emotions effecting heart rate and other factors when the persons emotional state is changed suddenly.

I suffered from brain zaps as you describe for a good week after an extremely irresponsible MDMA binge. They would happen especially as I was falling asleep, especially when I moved my eyes suddenly and especially when I was startled. Feels like an electric shock, it would start in my brain and end in my feet, but be so quick that it was hard to tell where it started and where it finished. Horrible feeling, but it did subside.

People who suffer from this same side effect are people who are discontinuing too quickly from SSRI anti-depressants and people that abuse MDMA (and other strongly serotonin acting drugs). Try taking multivitamins for a bit incase you are deficient in something, stay healthy and fit and report back here.

edit: As for the numb feeling to your senses this sounds like a mild case of derealization/deperonalization. I've also had this before, not only did I feel numb physically to my senses but also to emotional events. Happened for about two weeks when I abruptly stopped using cannabis after prolonged use, combined with moderate use of BZP. After sleeping well and being healthy and drug free it vanished and has never returned.
Click to expand...


I would like to say thank you everyone for posting their experience after lsd usage. I recently consumed lsd, and experienced the same "startle response". This is my second time experiencing this (first tim was after my first trip, and second time on my third trip). I thought I was alone on this, but it gives me comfort knowing others are having similar physical after effects.

I decided that after my third trip, I felt no desire to do lsd anymore. Additionally, I put myself on a "extra healthy plan" which consists of consuming more vitamins, liquids, physical activity, and more positive self talk. I use to smoke weed regularly (although small amounts), but now I don't because I feel like I can "revisit" some of the effects of the lsd trip, and not the "pre lsd" weed effects which I could described as "comforting, good feeling, heighten senses that were perceived as pleasureable" but now everything feels off, uncomfortable, my head hurts, nothing tastes "delicous". I might try smoking in the future once this "brain zap tingling sensation" disappears.

As for the "startle" brain/body zap feeling, it's slowly decreasing with time (began a week ago after the trip)...I hope that in a few weeks it will disappear (just like the first time I've experience this).

Thanks!
 
Hi Altered Carbon, I’m sorry for your experience and wonder how you are faring. What vitamins/supplements are helping and what to avoid.

I thought i had lsd and only took microdose of what was 25i NBOME and I have underlying vascular dysfunction and arrhythmia and autonomic dysreflexia. I did not hallucinate, but nearly died. I?m five days out and still very much face on fire, sounds, light, and I?d like to know more about detoxing it. Thank you all.
 
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