The Big & Dandy 6-APB Thread (Part 4)

[Farfath666]

Read only bad things about the white/off white stuff. I'd be very carefull and get it tested before you try any, BIG chance it's not 6-APB at all.

Theoretically, shouldn't pure 6-APB be white? Brown or tan powders suggest impurities generally. Therefore wouldn't it be possible that I have a purer product than the tan/brown stuff going around the UK? I will try to get GC/MS, NMR, and other lab data if possible and test it first, but just saying, white doesn't necessarily mean it's not 6-APB, does it?

 

[PsychedelicPeptide]

Theoretically, shouldn't pure 6-APB be white?

Well it depends on the chemical really. In most cases a purer product is whiter, particularly when you are dealing with a simple organic molecule consisting of only carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen. But that is not a guarantee. Personally, based on my experiences with having extremely pure, white fluff MDMA I would have guessed pure 6APB is white as well, so long as it is not crystallized (MDMA crystals are yellow-brown...).

iirc, just for harm reduction, it's high dopamine activity that's more dangerous in terms of neurotoxicity, however, once again iirc - and this may be incorrect as I'm just going from memory, but I believe this is only the case with chemicals that release both serotonin and dopamine. 6-APB is one of these though.

There's some work by Nichols from the late 1990s where his group showed neurotoxicity to occur in rodents from the combined effect of dopamine and serotonin release, but neither alone.

Neuropharmacology. 1991 Jul;30(7):819-22.
Combined administration of a non-neurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine analogue with amphetamine produces serotonin neurotoxicity in rats.
Johnson MP, Nichols DE.
Source

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907.
Abstract

In the present study, a central serotonin neurotoxicity was induced by combining a non-neurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine analogue, 5-methoxy-6-methyl-2-aminoindan (MMAI), with the non-vesicular dopamine (DA) releaser, S-(+)-amphetamine (Amp). With the multiple dosing regimen utilized neither drug alone resulted in any changes in serotonergic parameters, including 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. However, MMAI (10 mg/kg) in combination with Amp (2 x 2.5 mg/kg) did result in a long-term 20% decrease in cortical serotonergic parameters. The same dose of Amp plus 20 mg/kg MMAI resulted in a 50 to 60% reduction. Effects in the hippocampus and caudate nucleus were similar. These data support the hypothesis that DA release plays a critical role in the serotonin neurotoxicity of substituted amphetamines.

Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 1991 Dec;40(4):915-22.
Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.
Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.
Source

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907.
Abstract

There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs.

 

[Jakeperson]

Thanks for that read, quite interesting.


Yeah I would think that being white we should not rule out that it could be 6-APB but all the reports of the white powder going around at the moment indicate that it is probably not 6-APB

 

[Black]

MDMA crystals are yellow-brown...

really? the last mdma i had was (a bit milky) white crystals and it tested 99.2%

 

[PsychedelicPeptide]

Yeah maybe I should have put "can be various shades of" ... I've seen all the way from small, almost powder-like whiter crystals (this summer, probably a lot like you describe) to larger yellow up to brown crystals (various samples over the years), probably better referred to as shards. My personal favorite brand has always been the infamous "Molly Moonrocks."

It all depends on how the manufacturer does their crystallization procedure (if they even do it at all). Small impurities can of course change colors ever so slightly as well.

 

[sml-la]

For reference, I rank 6-APB in the following manner, as far as roll-esque chemicals are concerned...
6-APB>MDA>MDMA>bk-MDMA>bk-MDBD>BZP

The intense roll sprinkled with psychedelia, as well as the lack of MDxx hangover, and the overall come-down of this drug in comparison to MDxx chemicals makes this my number 1 pick. And the fact that it's significantly less expensive and illegal than the classics is definitely a plus, as well.

 

[Jakeperson]

Interesting that you say it beats MDA and MDMA. Have you lost the magic with those two?

I had with MDMA/MDA however I found bk-MDMA to have all the magic that left. I am hoping 6-APB might be able to do the same, I read last night on erowid that MDA is more nuerotoxic than MDMA so that could leave 6-APB pretty bad in this sense.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Interesting that you say it beats MDA and MDMA. Have you lost the magic with those two?

I had with MDMA/MDA however I found bk-MDMA to have all the magic that left. I am hoping 6-APB might be able to do the same, I read last night on erowid that MDA is more nuerotoxic than MDMA so that could leave 6-APB pretty bad in this sense.

Quite likely. I think the key here though is moderation. If you space your doses out - never more than once a month, ideally several month breaks - avoid dosing too high or redosing, and eat healthily and stay hydrated before/during/after the 6-APB I would think you wouldn't have to be too concerned.

However, it's worth mentioning that we really don't know. This could be far less neurotoxic than any other MDxx or it could be far more neurotoxic.. I'd suspect it'd probably be about on par with MDA given the similarities, but that's just speculation and when health is a concern, speculation tends to lead to people getting hurt - so always treat it with extra caution

 

[sml-la]

Interesting that you say it beats MDA and MDMA. Have you lost the magic with those two?

I had with MDMA/MDA however I found bk-MDMA to have all the magic that left. I am hoping 6-APB might be able to do the same, I read last night on erowid that MDA is more nuerotoxic than MDMA so that could leave 6-APB pretty bad in this sense.

I lost the magic with MDxx chemicals I wanna say 9-10 months ago. And not necessarily that I lost the magic, but I just lost the desire to take them, because the ratio of enjoyment is equivolent to the ratio of sadness that haunts me for the next 4 or 5 days after rolling. 6-APB doesn't give me that hangover like those chemicals do. 6-APB is the only empathogen I will consider taking nowadays. I'm much more into psychedelics/dissociatives than empathogens, however.

 

[killermunchies]

I was wondering if anyone knew how long 6-APB can last dissolved in water. I know some substances breakdown fairly fast, and others can last a very long time. I have some 6-APB dissolved in water from a month ago and I'm trying to figure out what to expect from it. Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

[IamMe90]

it should be pretty stable.

 

[Black]

I lost the magic with MDxx chemicals I wanna say 9-10 months ago. And not necessarily that I lost the magic, but I just lost the desire to take them, because the ratio of enjoyment is equivolent to the ratio of sadness that haunts me for the next 4 or 5 days after rolling.

but the mdma high still feels the same while you're on it?

@peptide
actually more like 1cm shards of mdma. there was lots of good stuff going around past summer

 

[any major dude]

I've tried 6-apb a couple times now & really enjoy it. dare say i prefer it to mdma as well. i use empathogens pretty infrequently which definitely helps get the most out of it. I'd say no more than once every other month or so would be a sustainable level. that's just a guess though. reasonable sized doses as well. haven't really found my sweet spot yet & usually require a small booster. also wanna try 5apb sometime & eventually the combination of the two. it'll be spring or summer before i titrate proper doses though.

have many people tried combinations with tryptamines ? i feel like that could be pretty win

 

[killermunchies]

have many people tried combinations with tryptamines ? i feel like that could be pretty win

I combined 140 mg of 6-APB and 5 mg of 5-meo-mipt and the experience was great. It was a little more trippy than 6-APB usually is, but definitely not overwhelmingly. It also made music sound great. It did give me HPPD-like symptoms for like a week afterward though, so be careful about that.

 

[PsychedelicPeptide]

I was wondering if anyone knew how long 6-APB can last dissolved in water. I know some substances breakdown fairly fast, and others can last a very long time. I have some 6-APB dissolved in water from a month ago and I'm trying to figure out what to expect from it. Can anyone shed some light on this?

If you left it at room temperature it is probably not ok. Odds are bacteria will be growing in the sample after a week or two. You might be able to see it, if there is film on the edges of the solution. If you kept it well frozen, it should be ok. Else I wouldn't use it... it could make you sick.

 

[whynaught]

so this chemical pretty much sounds like the bees knees... when people going to start making fucked up posts on 6apb? This is a big and dandy thread haha

 

[Jesusgreen]

so this chemical pretty much sounds like the bees knees... when people going to start making fucked up posts on 6apb? This is a big and dandy thread haha

Well, although it's common in some of the B&D threads, not naming any names *cough*MXE*cough* we don't encourage that, and really we could enforce it as the B&D threads are for discussing the drugs in question, for general chit chat we have social threads :D

Killermunchies,

It did give me HPPD-like symptoms for like a week afterward though, so be careful about that.

I wouldn't be too concerned about that. It's pretty normal for many psychedelics to cause short-term after-effects that often include some lasting perception changes - it's when these don't go away that it's cause for concern, and effectively becomes HPPD

 

[Jakeperson]

Is HPPD really that bad for you? Mine is shocking, if some one else looked through my eyes they would think I'm tripping right now. I don't even notice anymore unless I focus on it.

To the people who have experienced visuals on this, what has the dose been? I am pretty keen to really test this one out and have a MDA-style trip. Also have many people tried it in combination with psychedelics? My limited experience with it tell me it would be, the magic just isn't there for me with MDMA any more

 

[Jesusgreen]

I experienced visuals with my one experience at 150mg, but they weren't incredibly intense or anything. For the most part I had this sort of blurring/distortion around the edges of objects, almost like the cartoon lines around the characters and objects in A Scanner Darkly and similar films. CEVs were interesting and strong, cartoon figures and pixelated structures, quite vivid and interesting.

As I said nothing all that intense though, maybe 175mg+ would hold more value if you're looking for a psychedelic feel.

 

[Limitbreaker]

Yeah, the blurring is pretty fun. It's not like when you force bad focus with your eyes, it happens instantly and adds some depth...

Very fun when it happens :D Kind of reminds you that you've taken a very, very cool substance.

I'm doing a break from it now though, at least I hope so. Addiction? I guess not. It's not the craving like in mephedrone, I was so suprised when that feeling on mephedrone came - I've actually never experienced anything like that before.

Not addiction, but when you get to know this substance, you may find hard to ease off, stop yourself doing this stuff every weekend or two.

Yeah, it's that cool. I'm now almost 2 weeks after last ingestion and I don't feel like doing it anymore, but only because I don't have it in my hands and because of not having good enough S&S-s.