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We are living in hell: we just don't realise it.

I dont really buy anything that the christians produce : D I didnt know the orthodox ones pray to Venus, why so?

one more try -

because of the reasons i mentioned above, if you understand how Venus is the planet of love and affection, who is so close to earth and so bright, along with Jupiter(who is the intellect and liberator) in the night sky, they are the brightest at evening and dawn...Lucifer is a combination of these. the light-bringer, the dark-side also, the only other of everything that there is - which is all we have here.


there is hardly any recognition of light, in pure light all the time, so the darkness must learn to be appreciated, and made transparent...there are many famous quotes that start from here. the light really is insignificant, if the dark never has been.


to do see the light and love in everything, is to understand and to accept as nature the polar opposite that makes up out bodies mind and environment. is to recognize the likely God if any of this earth, Sophia is mother earth, Lucifer is who sustains her life with the elements. this does not sustain us, only our bodies, to see this at Face value, is to see the initial source to the creator who reflects the light of God, but only the darkness of our lives, each as individuals, see past that, see the source of life, love and light - the creator God whom Lucifer wishes to emulate, if anything only to be further appreciated by God as worthy of Ascending once again ;-) from his previous Descent...
a deal, and a match set and made in heaven


<3<3
<3



Tori Amos - Father Lucifer (Original)
;)
 
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I think if you suggested to an Orthodox Christian that they prayed to the Morning Star meaning Lucifer their jaws would drop open.
Of all the Christian sects Orthodoxy is the most traditional. There is nothing in either the bible or their tradition to support that view PIP. Its a new age interpretation of 2 or 3 verses.
 
... You are certain?

I am too...

i am also suggesting, that they dont worship, but do celebrate and SING to SoPHia *


See Vespers AKA Vespertine, as I, mentioned previously.
 
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"First star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might."

Fundamental
Morning/Evening Star.
meaning Venus
you are distorting what i have said.


The Sun rises in the East with Venus, and sets in the West with Jupiter ~
Both of these are the first stars visible every night, and the last every morning.

what i am saying is original.
and ill even say that i am against the New Age Movement.

To me, "new age", is only further division....what perpetuates the duality and makes singularity, oneness amongst all that much more difficult to realize.


<3<3
One love One life One light
<3


if you suggested what you said to an Orthodox Christian,
who understands deeply the fundamentals of their-own faith,
they would say that it is all about you,
and finding your way, that's all.
no they do not worship icons, what i have said explains why in~part. same for myself.

and that is true.

_____________________
sorry for the slop, my computer and phone are busted...


2 Peter 1:19: “We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:”

Revelation 22:16: “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”

Isaiah 14:12-15
(HCSB)

'"12 Shining morning star, (A) [a]
how you have fallen from the heavens! (B)
You destroyer of nations,
you have been cut down to the ground.

13 You said to yourself:
"I will ascend to the heavens; (C)
I will set up my throne
above the stars of God. (D)
I will sit on the mount of the [gods'] assembly,
in the remotest parts of the North. (E)

14 I will ascend above the highest clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

15 But you will be brought down to Sheol
into the deepest regions of the Pit."
 
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The Day Star of Peter is not the Morning Star it symbolises Jesus and his rising like a star in our souls. Light in the darkness.

The last verses are about Nebuchadnezzar and Satan not Jesus.

Satan is referred to as 'Shining one'.. He shines.. theres no adoration in his shine.. Its pride and arrogance he wants worship.
He also masquerades as an 'angel of light'.. if you see him you would think he was the most exquisite thing you have ever seen..
something godlike.


if you suggested what you said to an Orthodox Christian,
who understands deeply the fundamentals of their-own faith,
they would say that it is all about you,
and finding your way, that's all.

Could you clarify what you mean by this paragraph ^. The Orthodox Christians would say that its all about God and our relationship with Him.. that is a fundamental of Christianity whether Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant etc.

I think I know where youre at though. I hope you like this star mandala.. I love it :) It seems to have everything in it.


Morning-Star-collagenew-sml-1.jpg
 
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The Day Star of Peter is not the Morning Star it symbolises Jesus and his rising like a star in our souls. Light in the darkness.

The last verses are about Nebuchadnezzar and Satan not Jesus.

Satan is referred to as 'Shining one'.. He shines.. theres no adoration in his shine.. Its pride and arrogance he wants worship.
He also masquerades as an 'angel of light'.. if you see him you would think he was the most exquisite thing you have ever seen..
something godlike.




Could you clarify what you mean by this paragraph ^. The Orthodox Christians would say that its all about God and our relationship with Him.. that is a fundamental of Christianity whether Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant

Peter I only made reference to in response to your post, the rest of what I had posted originally was, in part, some of what I was able to gather in response to the OP. I'm not vey familiar with Peter.


Another way to say what I mean could be -
We can apply ourselves to adopt or adhere to certain principals in order to realize God in our daily-lives,
though hopefully then what comes, so does the realization of how God is all, and so only Gods work is
to be done.

Our talents and personal abilities, are so special because they are what enables our Spirit to feel that connection .
;-)the next time you do what you feel you do especially well, do so with the of your God,
from the source of that spirit, take a few minutes to allow a connection to happen ~
& then trust fully what is expressed only to be from the most pure source of you,
the most purely refined pollen of the universe, and from with-in and beyond there...
 
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I think life just IS. It contains positive and negative elements. It's the journey we're on. I've had periods of my life that were hell, but I've had a lot of incredible beauty and happiness also. Right now for example is a very high point for me. As I go through my days, the vast majority of what I experience is profoundly good. I had to work to get here though. I don't think we're here to suffer. I think that while we're here, we will experience suffering at times, every one of us, and it's possible to experience little but suffering. But that's not a prerequisite for life. There's always light in the darkness if you look for it.

For me it's largely a matter of perspective. Even in these intense and often dark times, I find a lot of happiness and joy. Because I choose to see it and accept it, and I choose to refuse the darkness when I can. Our society is sick, to be sure, but we don't have to accept that sickness for ourselves.
 
Because Christianity has spread far and wide, "Lucifer" may have become the placeholder for any number of local deities. Depending where you are in the world, the qualities ascribed to Lucifer may be different, based on historical deities being replaced as the almighty evil Lucifer.

As for the OP... heaven and hell are dualistic perspectives of consciousness. The truth is that we're living in neither.
 
We are living in hell: we just don't realise it

As much as the statement is powerful I have to fault it on being completely pessimistic. I do think there is an interesting phenomenon which the statement sheds light on. To understand this best we can use one of the oldest biblical stories: Adam and Eve. In the story they were promised some form of greatness by eating the fruit and eventually curiosity got the better. What they found was, however, after eating the fruit they did not become like the gods, they were already living as them. This perfectly presents loss of innocence throughout our lives, as babies the world is amazing but as we gradually lose our innocence and strive to lose our innocence we realise that the world was a nicer place before we ate the fruit. But it is only after we have made this jump that we realise the beauty we left behind. We do not start off by living in hell but as we gain experience and knowledge and go through life the end point can easily seem like hell when compared to the innocence of a child. We should not lose hope though, just because our innocence leaves us does not mean we cannot appreciate things in the same way. How do we achieve this? We achieve it through new experience, smelling, touching, seeing new things, going to new places and reclaiming the wonder of a child. This comparative hell can be broken down through constantly seeking to have new experiences, this is the only way we can live a fulfilled life.
 
The Judeo-Christian idea of a supposed 'hell' is laughable.

Anybody with a fully functioning brain capable of coherent critical thought, would realise on their own terms that the concept of burning for eternity for committing sins, is simply a cruel joke played on us by the people of old.

I would like to understand how you can possibly experience pain and suffering without the use of neurons, nerves, and whatnot.

Unless hell is in fact some sort of ever-lasting horrible trip we can't escape from.
In which case, the statement 'we are living in hell and don't realise it', would be correct.
 
We are living in hell: we just don't realise it

As much as the statement is powerful I have to fault it on being completely pessimistic. I do think there is an interesting phenomenon which the statement sheds light on. To understand this best we can use one of the oldest biblical stories: Adam and Eve. In the story they were promised some form of greatness by eating the fruit and eventually curiosity got the better. What they found was, however, after eating the fruit they did not become like the gods, they were already living as them. This perfectly presents loss of innocence throughout our lives, as babies the world is amazing but as we gradually lose our innocence and strive to lose our innocence we realise that the world was a nicer place before we ate the fruit. But it is only after we have made this jump that we realise the beauty we left behind. We do not start off by living in hell but as we gain experience and knowledge and go through life the end point can easily seem like hell when compared to the innocence of a child. We should not lose hope though, just because our innocence leaves us does not mean we cannot appreciate things in the same way. How do we achieve this? We achieve it through new experience, smelling, touching, seeing new things, going to new places and reclaiming the wonder of a child. This comparative hell can be broken down through constantly seeking to have new experiences, this is the only way we can live a fulfilled life.

Great post, I concur. :)
 
If we accepted the idea that "We are living in hell: we just don't realise it" as a true statement about life, then does this not answer another of mankind's questions which is almost constantly asked yet never answered in an intellectually satisfying manner: Why does "evil" exist?

OP we are certainly living in a kind of hell but IMO there is a real/scientific answer as to why evil exists. I refer you to the works of Ernest Becker. Denial of Death and Escape from Evil. Also you can Google Terror Management Theory. (TMT theory even provides scientific proofs)

I have found in many years of sharing this that almost no one wants to know.
 
I'm surprised this thread doesn't get more traffic, it's one of the first that comes up on a Google search for "you're actually in hell". Most of the rest are blog articles that make assumptive conjecture. I think it's a terribly important question, one that actually brings some obscure level of comfort to mind because it finally puts to rest the questions that have plagued me since birth.

A side thought, sort of...

I wanted to buy an extra piece of gym equipment today, a single 75lb dumbbell for doing overhead dumbbell pullovers, which is on sale $24 lower ($75-$51) up until today when the sale ends at a local sporting goods store. I thought, I wonder if I can attain the funds purely from junk in the house I want to get rid of, or things I've already done.

So I looked out online, and it turned out that I had $40 in unpaid monies in a Turbosquid account for some 3D models I made from over 6 years ago, and about $19 in Ad Revenues from UnityAds from some video games I made, but that is... of course... unpaid until your UnityAds account reaches $100 in Ad Revenues.

So there's a $40 boost if I want it, just not quite that $51 that I would "need" TODAY before the sale ends.

Isn't that kind of just like "life?"

I remember at the times I did those things people gave me ideas like... Oh yeah be a 3D modeler it'll get you extra cash, be a mobile game developer just look at all these mobile game devs who make millions. I learned both, it took quite a while btw, on the order of years on the side of my regular work as a business app programmer.

The "word of mouth" marketing works great, in favor of those more experienced in marketing, not so much for me a gamedev/gfx artist. Notice how it also took years long after the sense of "need" for anything to develop. Now I don't really care.

That's kind of the whole point I'm making. In hell, you get the things you need when you don't care anymore, when they don't really benefit you like they would have when there was SO MUCH emotional enthusiasm wrapped up in the ideals that were brought to mind of everything happening so wonderfully at the right time.

It's kind of all designed to get you excited, and then dash your hopes. Then when you're not expecting it, you get a minor reward for that thing you wanted, way after the fact when it's unimportant, but you have to be thankful for the "reward" anyway, because you're an ungrateful prick otherwise, even if that reward is having your long since dead severed penis reattached long after you've adapted to living without one and chosen a life of celibacy.

Do this kind of dance enough times, and you realize that it has become SYSTEMIC in nature, just expressed in different scenarios and ways. That's important to seeing PATTERNS emerging in both events and people.

When you're doing creative hobby work artistically, you'll be lambasted by people calling you a sellout for wanting any monetary compensation for your efforts, you should do it according to them because you're "naturally motivated to", but then you get older and realize that the clock is ticking, people depend on you for survival, you depend on you for survival, you can't simply expend copious amounts of time doing things that aren't monetarily fruitful, and yet, in doing things that ARE considered monetarily fruitful by the mass of society you'll find yourself either bored out of your skull and ready to jump off a bridge (i.e. reading reports and creating TPS reports), or you'll be forced into doing smarmy things for cash that may make you want to take 20 showers a day (i.e. being a maker of cringy Youtube videos for profit for things like "how to's" and "reviews" / opinions).

Crickets...

For the sake of anticipating a possible response. Yes, of course I realize I'm privileged to even be in a place where sales inconveniently happen when I'm not monetarily prepared for them, and that I'm not starving in a third world country like Haiti. Sure, we're talking about relative levels of abuse here though, not absolute. Hell finds a way to abuse you at EVERY level. I'm not complaining necessarily about my particular level of hell, though it may seem that way, I'm simply adapted and accustomed to my level of hell, within a certain means of paradoxical uncertainty.

(to quote Samuel Jackson on Jackie Brown, "I can't rely on Melanie, but I can rely on Melanie to be Melanie.")

I can envision myself "enjoying" a radioactive day on the beach in a hazmat suit as the last survivor on a hellish earth, still pining over love and friendships lost, things I wish I'd done or not done. I can't get out of the hazmat suit to enjoy the waves of the ocean, but there it is, in plain view, on sandy beaches full of dangerous shards of glass that you can cut your feet on while you're dying of radiation poisoning if you take that sweaty hazmat suit off.

That my "friends" is an illustration of the "tight rope" of hell. I don't think I can artistically express it in words much clearer than that. The tight rope is analogous to so many situations in life. There's some leftover noodles with chicken and beef in the fridge, but you don't have an ounce of soy sauce in the whole house. It tastes absolutely horrible without the soy, but you're supposed to feel shame for not already being happily content to enjoy your bland soy-less noodles.

I've been doing this dance for a very long time, and I'm tired, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to observe and convey such things.

The thing that sets me apart from the rest, is of course also the very thing that will set you to inherently hate me.

I was born with extrasensory perception, and not in a good way. (awkward moment, to be fair)

I have a keen sense of knowing when I'm being hunted by something outside of our "realm" of existence. When you feel the presence of something purely evil staring at you, when you feel colors start to fade into a depressing haze, like something out of a lifeless modern art museum, you get the first inklings of an idea that you're not purely alone in the world. I'm expressing my childhood up through 10 years old. Then it "went away."

It went away for a good 20 years, and now it's back on a daily basis. The doctors tried pills/therapy, none of those actually did anything positive at all. I don't see hallucinations, but I experience body takeovers, in my same conscious mind, I even have conversations with this spiritual entity. It's written messages to me that are uniquely confusing in nature. It may at one time use my head to write in cursive, "Jesus Loves You", and then 2 seconds later write, "God Hates You (my full name) False Prophet." This goes on usually on a nightly basis, usually when I'm driving, but sometimes in other isolated situations. It also took the woman of my dreams away (that's your cue to use that as a means to attack me because attachments run deep, which of course exposes a thing or two about you), that's a whole story in itself, and made my life hell in many other ways. Tons of nasty things, and instead of feeling horribly emotionally driven, most of the time now I just see it as "same ol' same ol'" in this environment.

I have no real attachments to people, or anything much going on here, except for that small fact that I can't seem to die.

I'm quite sure at this point that one of a few possibilities exist:
1) I'm in hell, I must have done something horribly bad to get here. It's even more stressful to not know what that thing was.
2) Perhaps I'm in a computer simulation of some sort, maybe I was captured before this life and put into it.
3) Heaven and hell are some kind of fluid state.
4) V2K/Electromagnetic blah blah, I don't have enough faith in the competency of our government to believe in their technological capability to do such things, and why I would even be a candidate for selection in such a program (which defaults among conspiracy theorist crowds to: "they don't need a reason to select you")
5) I'm part of a spiritual war.

My views usually toggle somewhere in the mix of these major viewpoints, among others that don't come to mind currently, on a continuing basis.

Btw, yes of course capitalism is flawed. That's the whole thing. You're in a world where EVERY system of government is inherently flawed in some extreme use case. Even a technocracy that utilizes some adaptive government control system that tailors to the strengths of every governmental system would likely have some potentially harsh outcomes at times that would be barely adaptable for human beings to survive.

That's kind of the point. You're constantly DISTRACTED here by the thinking of ontology, systems of government, and so on. You'll run in circles, doing things that seem to matter for a time, and you'll be just out of reach of the proverbial mountains you want to climb.

I don't even post things like this to get agreement out of people. I do it just to see what your psychological reaction is to my stating the "truth", whatever that is, from my viewpoint. Obviously, it makes the militant atheists pissed when I say things like yes I've had spiritual encounters since I was born, and I have yet to see one that I've truly deemed as friendly, I go through the same "up and down" cycles as everyone else. Maybe I'm brought to having $0.02 in my checking account, about to die, and then suddenly an influx of money comes in, I should be thankful, but I also just had the daylights scared out of me (this has happened multiple times, as well as almost been killed in other ways many times).

Nonetheless, atheists will hate me when their lack of beliefs become in question. I'm not here to tell you the "good news", I'm here to tell you a horrifying story of life. I'm not "preaching" that "God is good", that may even be insulting to God, if he is both the good and evil force of the universe. He created evil did he not? He killed the firstborn of the Egyptians, and punished the Israelites over and over did he not? You'll laugh and say, "I can't worship a God I don't love." He can make you love or hate him. He can do anything he wants.

It's time to succumb to actual truth, you're in hell, on some level, but which level, and is it perpetual?

Maybe.

That's the thing, you're in a perpetual state of unknowing, and because you're in a perpetual state of unknowing, you're perpetually tortured with questioning.

Sometimes I post a literary abomination like this to see if you'll react in standard formulaic ways, using the same pseudorandom number generator to pull a string response from an array of responses (assuming you're akin to an agent in the Matrix and nothing more than computer code). Once in a while I like to mess with the "agents" (and everyone in the "Matrix" is an "agent" to me), and see if I can get your response algorithms to adapt and change in response to mine, or if you'll respond with the same identifiable things as before.

What else are you supposed to do when you're in hell and you're bored?

Maybe I'll wake up after I die as a brain in a vat and something that looks like the final boss from Contra 3 will be standing over me.

That would kind of suck. The spirit thing was true, regardless of whether you want to believe or not. Who really knows what's coming for this universe, or if it's just more of the same.

"I don't know" is the answer. My meta-meta-point of course, is that the state of unknowing is that which derives a series of illogical and irrational responses to a world in which we believe things should happen quite reasonably and logically. When it's one isolated synchronicity that occurs, you say "well that's weird." When there are literally hundreds of synchronicities going on all around you and directly related to you at all moments of the day you're led to believe that you know one thing further than anyone else, when in reality, we all exist on the same playing field of unknowing, and that unknowing keeps us in a state of chaos.
 
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Sounds like you're highly sensitive and attuned to the nature of reality, depressed, have unresolved trauma and are out of sync with reality. That's my formulaic algo 5000 response. Oh, and you're posting this in a drug forum and I'm not even high when I'm saying this. Bring it all back into alignment with the now moment and what seems like reality dephasing will reveal itself to be life unfolding in a synchronistic flow. Everything appears exactly when it is needed in the now moment and divine intelligence is orchestrated through your every action as an unfoldment of cause and effect. Or sumpting like that. Can't say it enough times. The breath will bring you back into alignment with the now moment. Meditation will bring you more deeply into revelation with reality. Fear and trauma removal will make it all more bearable cause you're in for quite the ride.
 
How does one arrive at a concept of hell, or hell on earth without borrowing from Christianity? Thats a genuine question.. Id really like to know. Conceivably, there has to be a standard for what hell is, and then this earth has to somehow relate to it, or embody the very essence of it, correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt that require borrowing from the Christian view of hell, and if not, why?
 
I think the use of the Word Hell in the Christian sense evokes a state of absolute suffering, endless. The concept can exist with or without Christianity, it's just a borrowed word that has Christian roots.
 
I'll give you my own understanding of hell which is probably incomplete but not without basis. Hell in the truest sense is a fiction. The worst thing that can happen to a person is a disconnection from God. Basically God light leaves the person and they become a kind of computer program. As horrific as that reality sounds, even that is not entirely a disconnection from God. There is no such thing as eternal damnation. These beings can return to the light or can be destroyed and return to source to start all over again in the ascension back to God.

The Hell realms that we use as stories to frighten children are mostly astral realms. Particularly the lower astral realms, which are nothing but nonstop pedophilia, clowns in horror costumes and fire and brimstone. Stuff like that. The stuff fear is made of. So in the most absolute sense we cannot disconnect from God and hell isn't real. Doesn't mean we should embrace evil and go to the dark side. Doesn't mean our actions have no consequence.
 
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