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    Am I addicted to Oxycodone? 
    #1
    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    Hi guys, I've been on Oxycodone for the last 3 years to manage my chronic pain. I have never previously been addicted to opiates and I have no clue what it feels like to have withdrawal symptoms or what dose is considered to cause withdrawal effects.

    For the first year I did great only taking a 5 mg dose and eventually working up to 10 mg on my second year and I was only taking it once a day and I found no problems skipping the occasional dose or stopping for a few weeks or months. However in the last 7 months I seemed to have lost the plot and suddenly went up to 40mg and now I'm trying to take a break but I always find some reason to take it everyday, either due to increased physical pain or emotional pain. So I keep promising to myself I will stop tomorrow but I find myself saying the same thing day after day and failing at it. I am starting to think maybe I have finally become addicted but it feels more psychological although I am not sure because I have no prior experience in opiate addiction.

    So I wanted to ask you guys if 40mg of Oxcycodone taken once per day is considered to be an addictive dose? I am hoping 40mg is still too low to cause any physical dependance but I am concerened if i stop will I experience any withdrawal symptoms? I only seem to crave it at night time around 10 pm otherwise during the day I don't even think about it or feel like I need it. Can someone with a bit of experience give me some advice please. Thanks
     

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    #2
    Bluelighter RobotRipping's Avatar
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    it's not so much the dose but the frequency of dosing. Since oxycodone has a half life of 3-4 hours or something close to that, if you dose in the morning, then at night you will likely feel some withdrawal symptoms, as you seem to notice with cravings at night. You are probably physically dependent but it doesn't make you a drug addict or a junky. Your body has just gotten used to the dose and without it, it's not able to readjust back to normal, so you feel withdrawals. Avoid stopping cold turkey, do a slow taper to avoid most of the withdrawal symptoms if you want to quit.

    You sound like you are psychologically addicted, don't promise that you will quit tomorrow, as this will just end up with disappointment and self-loathing that will further send you down the hole of addiction. If you want to quit, make a plan, get support, taper down, find meds that are effective in treating opiate withdrawal and replace your old behaviours with new healthy ones. This is all easier said than done, especially if you have chronic pain. Why are you worried about addiction? physical/mental addiction is inevitable (although some have more difficulty with it than others) or is your concern mostly that you are now abusing your pain meds and eventually you may not get relief from your chronic pain?
     

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    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for helping me, it was very informative. I always used to advise people if they want to quit to just taper down slowly and with me taking a liquid Oxycodone hydrochloride, technically I should be able to work my down slowly in increments, although it sounds all great in theory I learned that was not as easy as it sounds because as soon as you take a few milligrams below your usual dose its like you may as well just breathed some air instead because it does nothing to give you a buzz or control your pain. So basically every dose I take in my attempts to taper down will have absolutely no benefits for pain control or for recreational value. But I guess I have to focus on the greater good and make sacrifices.

    I am worried about addiction because I am going overseas on a holiday and the last time I did that it was very difficult taking 5 months worth of oxycodone liquid through customs and it was a inconvenient carrying it around on holiday. I am also worried that my dose has increased so rapidly that I was unable to gather the courage to tell my doctor I had gone from 12mg to 40 mgs within a few months and instead I lied and told him I now took the Oxycodone 3 - 4 times a day in order to compensate for the change in amount prescribed. I am also worried about withdrawals because I have a neurological illness called "Autonomic Dysfunction' and I already battle with many bothersome symptoms and disruption in my vitals daily so I was unsure how severe withdrawals would be and what further discomfort and effect they would have on my preexisting condition.
     

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    Bluelighter highhooked's Avatar
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    Yes you are without a doubt addicted. You have been using a very long time and it will def be uncomfortable quitting.

    Like robo said its not the dose but the frequency. There isnt a specific dose that is a physically dependent dose. You could only take 10mg at a time but if you dose everyday that still leads to physical dependence.
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter RobotRipping's Avatar
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    I wish I had some better advice, travelling is extremely difficult when you are dependent. Maybe using some opiate potentiators can help you bring down your dose or reduce tolerance. Given your pre-existing condition it sounds even more difficult to manage. The good thing is that you aren't on an extremely high dose and you have strong enough willpower to only dose once per day. With this in mind, if you do want to quit and can manage your pain without opiates i think you'll have a high rate of success. It's not so much that you are an addict but that you are dependent. It's often the lifestyle that an addict leads that brings them to their destruction. Whatever your choice is I wish you good luck. I'd recommend consulting your Dr about tapering, other meds you can use and having close supervision during your withdrawals in case anything goes wrong. Not everyone experiences withdrawals to the same severity, some people make it out relatively easily, so don't let the fear of an intense withdrawal discourage you too much.
     

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    Bluelighter verso's Avatar
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    If I can throw in my two-cents here... I don't think that it's the dose, the frequency one doses, or anything other than one's feeling compelled to use...

    I think that you and only you can truly know whether or not you're addicted; you've got to search around deep inside you and be honest enough with yourself to call it what it is...

    If you feel like there's an itch that needs scratching and takes priority even in the face of all negative consequences... then yes, you're probably an addict.
     

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by verso View Post
    If I can throw in my two-cents here... I don't think that it's the dose, the frequency one doses, or anything other than one's feeling compelled to use...

    I think that you and only you can truly know whether or not you're addicted; you've got to search around deep inside you and be honest enough with yourself to call it what it is...

    If you feel like there's an itch that needs scratching and takes priority even in the face of all negative consequences... then yes, you're probably an addict.
    this is a +1, this guy knwos his shy
     

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    Bluelighter whippa craka's Avatar
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    Yes, it is enough to be physically dependent and feel like crap for at least a good 2 weeks if you were to stop. Your craving it because it's no longer active on your receptors and its enough of a difference now (40mg) that it is not noticable, whereas 10mg or 20mg would not be.

    A psychological addiction is the worse part, and yes, you are addicted based on what you have told me. If you DON'T want to take it and you DO, you are mentally addicted. (Because you said you take it to relieve emotional pain.) Tapering off is the way to go. I wouldn't be complaining much, a 40mg/day dose can be quit cold turkey w/o any possible harm to your self, its just whether you have the mental integrity to do it.

    I would try taking 30-35 mg one day, and don't take it until you feel you really need it (around noon maybe?), after 7 days go down another 5mg.... and so on. See how long in the morning you can go w/o taking it, it will make your nights easier and you know relief its just a pill away if you need it. If you REALLY don't feel like lowering your dose, do the same thing, try to not take it until you need to that day. Also, try some potentiators. Taking 40mg of DXM with ur 40mg of oxy will potentiate it 20-30%. Try taking 30mg of oxy with 30mg of DXM and see how you feel.
     

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    #9
    Hey there, I relate a lot to this because I also have been taking hydrocodone or oxycodone for chronic pain the last year or so. Here's the thing, what I'm learning is narcotic pain medications are great for break through pain but not great for long term pain relief. The problem is, once you've gone through your ibuprofuen/naproxen/tylenol options (I used to take an upward of 1200mg of ibprofuen every 6 hours because my doctor wasn't so keen on putting me on hydrocodone, understandably) the doctors move you to a narcotic pain medication. BUT it is inevitable that your body will become tolerant and overtime you have to increase your dosage amount.

    In my opinion, there's a huge difference between physical dependence and addiction. TO ME, addiction means that you are merely seeking the high/euhporia of the drug to numb not only the physical pain but the mental pain as well. Physical dependence means, continually increasing dosages and needing the medication to function normally.

    So yes, I do think you are physically dependent upon the medication, but you need to be VERY honest with yourself and ask yourself if you are also craving the high of the drug. If you are afraid of becoming physically dependent upon in the rest of your life, I recommend talking to your doctor about different pain management. You could try taking a high dose of ibprofuen or some other type of non-narcotic (DON'T do Tylenol though, that stuff is toxic) and ONLY use the oxycodone for breakthrough pain only.

    I don't know what your situation is, but having chronic pain myself, I've learned a very painful lesson about becoming physically dependent on narcotic pain medication and was essentially forced in to quitting it because my family was scared. It really screwed me over but I see now what the doctors meant by only using it for breakthrough pain. You have to remember that with narcotic pain medications, it amplifies the amount of pain you are in so it seems worse than it actually is when you don't have it. But if you can ween yourself down or somehow use like ibprofuen throughout the day (you HAVE to use it on a consistent schedule for it to work) and only use the oxycodone for breakthrough pain only, then you might learn how your body really responds to pain and you wont have to go through physical dependence. Also, try seeing a naturopath so they can take some tests to find out what important vitamins and minerals your body is missing, that will help AMAZINGLY.

    Sorry if it seems like I'm preaching but I really do think you have a chance at beating this thing.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, you guys are full of useful information and my question was answered better then I had anticipated and the advice given was excellent.

    I had no idea addiction or dependance was more based on frequency of use rather then the dose. I learned a lot here from you all, well done guys
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter whippa craka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altered Perception View Post
    I had no idea addiction or dependance was more based on frequency of use rather then the dose...
    ABSOLUTLY. For example, take klonopin (a benzo). You can take only .5mg per day, but within a few months, it adds up to 20-30mg being active in your system because of its half life. Whereas with zanax, it would be very close to .5mg every day because just about all of it is flushed out. Oxy is like this with tolerance, it just builds.
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    In my defense the reason I didn't know any of this is because for the first 2 years I was using just as often everyday as I am now but I was only on 10mg and I had no problem quitting or taking breaks when I was on 10mg, it was only until I increased my dose to 40mg I realized I began to suspect addiction, so from my perspective I never increased the frequency of use, I only increased the dose. So that's why I though an increased dose was responsible.
     

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    Bluelighter verso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whippa craka View Post
    ABSOLUTLY. For example, take klonopin (a benzo). You can take only .5mg per day, but within a few months, it adds up to 20-30mg being active in your system because of its half life. Whereas with zanax, it would be very close to .5mg every day because just about all of it is flushed out. Oxy is like this with tolerance, it just builds.
    That sounds more to me like physical dependence than mental addiction. Granted, mental addiction often follows physical dependence, but I think that it's important to separate the two.

    Your xanax example is a perfect, perfect example. I was physically dependent upon xanax, so much so that I suffered a grand mal seizure soon after cold turkeying. It wasn't a fun experience, but I don't crave xanax. I wasn't mentally addicted to xanax, not then and now now.

    This is why I say that it's more than just one's dose and the frequency one doses. An individual can be physically dependent upon a substance but not mentally addicted.
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by verso View Post
    If I can throw in my two-cents here... I don't think that it's the dose, the frequency one doses, or anything other than one's feeling compelled to use...

    I think that you and only you can truly know whether or not you're addicted; you've got to search around deep inside you and be honest enough with yourself to call it what it is...

    If you feel like there's an itch that needs scratching and takes priority even in the face of all negative consequences... then yes, you're probably an addict.
    I think this seems the most plausable answer.
     

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    #15
    Bluelighter highhooked's Avatar
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    So verso you believe physical dependence doesnt count as addiction?

    I always associated physical dependence with addiction. I thought everyone did?
     

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    Bluelighter verso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highhooked View Post
    So verso you believe physical dependence doesnt count as addiction?

    I always associated physical dependence with addiction. I thought everyone did?
    It's not that it "doesn't count," but I believe that there can be one without the other; I believe that there can be symptoms of physical dependence without there being a true mental addiction.

    I was physically dependent upon alprazolam (xanax) and so much so, in fact, that I suffered a seizure once I quit taking it; however, I was not mentally addicted to alprazolam, and it's not that I'm in denial, embarrassed to admit my mental addiction or anything at all like that... I was not mentally addicted to xanax.

    I experienced zero cravings for xanax. I never felt compelled to take it; there were no rituals associated with my taking it; I had no trouble quitting xanax... I simply stopped taking it (and that's why I suffered the seizure).

    Do you see what I'm saying? For someone mentally addicted to a substance, yeah, they're more than likely physically dependent upon the substance as well and so they'll suffer all of the withdrawal symptoms. But I believe that in some instances, like my experience with xanax, an individual can be physically dependent upon a substance but not mentally addicted.
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    I have an important question to ask and hopefully people will still read this topic and I won't need to make another thread for this question..

    Ok so I want to take a break from Oxycodone and I have a few boxes of fentanyl patches left over from a while back, can I somehow use them to help me quit the oxycodone? like maybe wear them for half a day to take the edge off the craving from stopping the Oxycodone?
     

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    #18
    Bluelight Crew effie's Avatar
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    There is cross tolerance, so in theory they would work to ease WDs. However you are just substituting one opioid with another - you might come off the oxycodone but develop a fentanyl problem instead and then you'd be no further forwards!

    Do you have experience with fentanyl? It's not something to be messed with if you don't know what you are doing.

    Wearing a patch for half a day then taking it off won't work as neatly as you hope - some of the fentanyl will have been released into your subcutaneous fat and will continue to be released into your bloodstream after you take the patch off. It would be better to calculate what dose you have had before/can handle with your tolerance, and cut a piece of the patch off and wear that as you would normally, if you are determined to wear it. Just be really, really careful..
     

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    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    Effie, thanks for your response and concern, you asked some valid questions..

    The reason I have so many boxes of fentanyl is because I was prescribed it for my chronic pain a few years ago but at the time I didn't have any opiate tolerance, It was after I had severe reactions to codene and oxycodone they decided to try 12mcg fentanyl patches instead as a trial substitute, but as a test I began to wear them a few hours at first but once I got to the 7 hours I began to experience respiratory depression and it continued to absorb like you said, so I stopped fentanyl patches and kept all the boxes.

    At the time I couldn't even tolerate 5mg Oxycodone, but 3 years have passed and I can now easily take 40mg oxycodone so I feel as though if I went back to the fentanly with the opiate tolerance I now have I may be able to tolerate it much better then I have previously. However you are right I may just develop a fentanyl problem instead unless of course I manage to control my dose by cutting the patches. They are the clear type of patches and no visible gel so it should be fine to cut, if not I can just peel off one half of the sticky area attached to the patch and keep the other half intact ?
     

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    #20
    Bluelight Crew effie's Avatar
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    It will be fine to cut them.

    As your tolerance is higher now you are obviously less likely to overdose, but the risk is still there, and fentanyl is very strong - maybe even try a quarter of a patch? Seems like overkill but you really can't be too cautious with it, especially as you have experienced respiratory depression in the past.

    Go steady, and be very aware that you are just substituting one opioid for another.

    Good luck!
     

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    #21
    Bluelighter Altered Perception's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for replying so quickly, I appreciate your advice. From tonight onwards I begin my long break from Oxycodone, I will try the fentanyl tomorrow as it is already midnight here and I have no time to wait for it to be absorbed, so for now I have a glass of grapefruit juice waiting here and I am considering taking 20mg Oxycodone with it, which is only half of my usual 40mg dose and any potentiation I get from the grapefuit juice will just be a bonus, using this technique I assume is better then just taking a slightly lower dose like 35mg right? I just couldn't go cold turkey tonight as I may lose sleep if I do.

    Sorry with all the questions I hope I haven't bothered you too much. Thanks again for being such a great help.
     

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    #22
    Bluelight Crew effie's Avatar
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    It's no bother!

    If this is your last dose, I agree that going to 20mg makes more sense than just having 35mg then stopping dead. I'm still not sold on the idea of using fentanyl effectively as a tapering agent, but as long as you stay safe and are careful not to just substitute one thing for another..

    I hope you get some sleep, and good luck for tomorrow
     

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    #23
    Not to be urde, but...

    There is no question when your addicted to opiates, YOU KNOW as soon as you don't have them, becuase you don't eat, or sleep, your teeth chatter, you shiver cold as you sweat as little fucking spiders crawl all over your body, and if you take a downer to sleep your legs jump so hard you think you we're just fucking shot. So you'll know when your PHYSICALLY addicted my friend!!!
     

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    #24
    Bluelighter Addyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altered Perception View Post
    Hi guys, I've been on Oxycodone for the last 3 years to manage my chronic pain. I have never previously been addicted to opiates and I have no clue what it feels like to have withdrawal symptoms or what dose is considered to cause withdrawal effects.

    For the first year I did great only taking a 5 mg dose and eventually working up to 10 mg on my second year and I was only taking it once a day and I found no problems skipping the occasional dose or stopping for a few weeks or months. However in the last 7 months I seemed to have lost the plot and suddenly went up to 40mg and now I'm trying to take a break but I always find some reason to take it everyday, either due to increased physical pain or emotional pain. So I keep promising to myself I will stop tomorrow but I find myself saying the same thing day after day and failing at it. I am starting to think maybe I have finally become addicted but it feels more psychological although I am not sure because I have no prior experience in opiate addiction.

    So I wanted to ask you guys if 40mg of Oxcycodone taken once per day is considered to be an addictive dose? I am hoping 40mg is still too low to cause any physical dependance but I am concerened if i stop will I experience any withdrawal symptoms? I only seem to crave it at night time around 10 pm otherwise during the day I don't even think about it or feel like I need it. Can someone with a bit of experience give me some advice please. Thanks
    Does the Pope wear a funny hat? Yes, you are at the very least, physically addicted

    I would suggest tapering down through your doctors supervision (if it is, of course, prescribed)

    Otherwise... if you can't taper off through your doc... only thing I could do is suggest a plan for you... but of course, I can't guarantee you won't have any withdrawal symptoms... all I can guarantee, however, is your withdrawal symptoms will be much less pronounced than quitting cold turkey
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter highhooked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verso View Post
    It's not that it "doesn't count," but I believe that there can be one without the other; I believe that there can be symptoms of physical dependence without there being a true mental addiction.

    I was physically dependent upon alprazolam (xanax) and so much so, in fact, that I suffered a seizure once I quit taking it; however, I was not mentally addicted to alprazolam, and it's not that I'm in denial, embarrassed to admit my mental addiction or anything at all like that... I was not mentally addicted to xanax.

    I experienced zero cravings for xanax. I never felt compelled to take it; there were no rituals associated with my taking it; I had no trouble quitting xanax... I simply stopped taking it (and that's why I suffered the seizure).

    Do you see what I'm saying? For someone mentally addicted to a substance, yeah, they're more than likely physically dependent upon the substance as well and so they'll suffer all of the withdrawal symptoms. But I believe that in some instances, like my experience with xanax, an individual can be physically dependent upon a substance but not mentally addicted.
    Hey that actually makes alot of sense haha. I guess i never really thought about it. I would have to agree with you then sir.
     

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