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Anyone try the lemon tek for shrooms potentiation?

... nnnoooo, not at all.

We'll have to disagree on that sekio - do a search for "psilocybin metabolized by the liver" and there's a few hundred pages on it. I believe it was established in scientific studies as far back as 1962.

Which brings up the interesting point that psilocybin, if it's being metabolized by the liver, is passing through the powerful hydrochloric acid in your stomach unchanged. So if stomach acid has no effect on it, what effect does soaking it in lemon juice have?

the facts are right in front of you

Hold on cryptix, the facts are right in front of me and they're saying quite clearly that lemon juice has no effect whatsoever, psilocybin is metabolized in the liver - if stomach hydrochloric acid has no effect on it, what does lemon juice? What say you?

you've never even tried it.

It's not about "trying it" - that's the whole power of placebo. Psilocybin puts you in a highly suggestible state of mind. If someone gave me a capsuled mushroom and said "This is the most powerful, visual mushroom strain that has ever been grown" I'd probably have a powerful trip even if it was cubensis. You have to take the placebo effect out of this.

I've been hearing stories about "orange juice makes you trip harder, no, orange juice kills the trip, no blackcurrant juice is the one that makes you trip harder" for years. Eventually you realise that whatever someone beleives will make them trip harder will work purely by placebo.
 
I don't doubt that IV psilocybin is hit by liver and plasma esterases, but oral psilocybin is hydrolysed pretty fast when it hits the HCl of the stomach. Remember that older psychedelic studies i.e. from the 70s and before had a much smaller knowledge base to work from - and at times some papers were clearly incorrect science. (LSD chromosome damage?)
 
From a fatal poisoning involving psilocybe spp:

Fatal poisoning from mushrooms? The only mushroom overdose in human history? How seriously do you take this article? With a summary "this shows mushrooms are not innocuous" it sounds like blatant anti-drug propaganda from the start. (Anyone with any grasp of science would think that one overdose from a drug in recorded human history would show the drug is the safest known to mankind)

Whether you'd take the "toxicology" seriously is up to you. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
 
I've always wanted to test this out since checking out the thread on Shroomery ( The Lemon Experience ). I plan to soon test it out over the course of 3 weeks (to ensure that there is no interference) with plain mushrooms, then cranberry juice, and lastly lemon juice. I'd try vinegar but I don't think I can stomach that, lol. It's hard to tell whether its a placebo effect or not, but maybe if we have several people experiment and then post their trip reports and findings here, then we can sum up the results to make an assumption of what really occurs.

I'm down to test this, next time I get mushrooms.



Also: I feel like I started this mess here by pointing in the direction of lemon tek in that other thread regarding mushroom tea.
I never stated the lemon tech was "better, or more intense" But I feel getting rid of most of the psilocybin and leaving purely psilocin makes you have an over-all less anxious/crazy trip.
It also makes sense that it would kick in quickly, just as shroom tea would.
I just suggested it over shroom tea because it's harder to mess up, you wont lose yer precious alkaloids (because theres no heat) and overall you'll also have something probably more bare-able to drink. Make a an 'Arnold Palmer' with it, yumm!
 
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I don't doubt that IV psilocybin is hit by liver and plasma esterases, but oral psilocybin is hydrolysed pretty fast when it hits the HCl of the stomach. Remember that older psychedelic studies i.e. from the 70s and before had a much smaller knowledge base to work from - and at times some papers were clearly incorrect science. (LSD chromosome damage?)

I dunno sekio - I've always been under the impression that tryptamines, in fact pretty much every drug there is, gets metabolized by enzymes in the liver. If that's the case then obviously the lemon tek is a load of shit.

If you think psilocybin is unique in getting metabolized in stomach acid then you might be onto something.

Still not sure how much faster it makes the absorption tho - I bet if you took psilocybin rectally (where there's no acid at all) it would still hit you quickler than taking it orally.

Also: I feel like I started this mess here

So it's all your fault is it devourer? :D ...
 
Dev, I personally don't think you started this mess. If it wasnt you who posted about the lemon tek it wouldve been someone else, but beyond that I took it upon myself to look at all of the posts on shroomery about it, Im not saying there is a potentation effect, and im not saying theres not. All im sayin is I got really high off a gram of stems when I put it in the lemon juice powdered, Higher then my 2g trip last week that wasnt powdered. Was it cause it was powdered? Maybe. Was it cause it was in lemon juice? Maybe. Either way, lemon juice makes it easier to shoot down all at once, so I like it for that reason alone.
 
We'll have to disagree on that sekio - do a search for "psilocybin metabolized by the liver" and there's a few hundred pages on it. I believe it was established in scientific studies as far back as 1962.

you've never even tried it.

It's not about "trying it" - that's the whole power of placebo. Psilocybin puts you in a highly suggestible state of mind. If someone gave me a capsuled mushroom and said "This is the most powerful, visual mushroom strain that has ever been grown" I'd probably have a powerful trip even if it was cubensis. You have to take the placebo effect out of this.

I've been hearing stories about "orange juice makes you trip harder, no, orange juice kills the trip, no blackcurrant juice is the one that makes you trip harder" for years. Eventually you realise that whatever someone beleives will make them trip harder will work purely by placebo.


lmao, come on man, are you really comparing an urban legend like OJ with the tried & true lemon tek? I understand your mind is working differently, but when I look at the clock and I've already come down from the mushrooms 2 hours after taking them, that does seem a bit odd to me. In another instance, literally 15 minutes after ingesting a particularly powerful glass of lemon tek'd shrooms, my gf could barely even speak english the visuals were hitting here so hard. Really though man, you should just stop talking until you try this method yourself; you will become a believer.


Not trying to be a dick or anything, I just want it to be known that the lemon tek DOES work, and it works WELL.
 
Tried it last night with about 1.5g of finely chopped hawaiian cubensis and some freshly squeezed lemons that I got from Pizza Hut at midnight =D
It took about 30 minutes for me to come up, and it was a very intense body load for such a small amount. The body high came before the actual visuals, and I felt pretty overwhelmed by everything going on around me. I almost felt like I had taken some MDMA. As the body high got stronger, visuals began to make themselves apparent. Normally, I would get pretty minor visuals/body high off of 1.5g, but this time it was as if I had taken perhaps 3-4g. It did seem to last much less than my previous trips.
I WAS expecting it to be a little more intense than it was, but hey, I still had an amazing trip and was able to save more of my shroomies for later :) added bonus!
And next time I get my hands on some more mushies, I'll test out the cranberry juice.

Oh - might I add - the lemon juice worked AWESOMELY to mask the flavor of the mushrooms, if you dislike that.
 
Really though man, you should just stop talking until you try this method yourself; you will become a believer.


Not trying to be a dick or anything, I just want it to be known that the lemon tek DOES work, and it works WELL.

I'm not saying it doesn't work - if you believe it works then it will do. Placebos are incredibly powerful.

But the fact remains that psilocybin is converted to psilocin by enzymes in the liver. Which means it passes through powerful hydrochloric acid in your stomach unchanged. So soaking in lemon juice for 20 minutes will have absolutely no effect whatsoever.

But sure, if you believe it works then it will.
 
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But the fact remains that psilocybin is converted to psilocin by enzymes in the liver. Which means it passes through powerful hydrochloric acid in your stomach unchanged.

But this isn't a fact...? It's something you keep repeating with no base at all to it. Chemistry and physiology both point to the ester linkage being mostly or entirely blown open by even the most mildly acidic conditions...

In a controlled clinical study the pharmacokinetic
properties of psilocybin were studied. The metabolites
psilocin and 4- hydroxyindole-3-acetic acid (4HIAA) were
measured in plasma.

The average peak concentration of psilocin after oral
administration of 10 to 20mg psilocybin was 8.2 ( 2.8 ng/ml
plasma and were measured after 105 ± 37 min.

4HIAA reached its maximum concentration of 150 ± 61 ng/ml
plasma after 113 ± 41 min.

After intravenous injection of 1mg psilocybin peak plasma
concentration of psilocin was found 1.9 ± 1.0 min after
injection.

The bioavailability of psilocybin after oral administration
of psilocybin were 52.7 ± 20% (Hasler et al., 1997).

The maximum plasma levels of psilocin appearing within
a very short period after systemic administration indicates a
rapid dephosphorylation of psilocybin within the human body
(Hasler et al., 1997).
 
you say one thing, other people say something else... how can you be so damn sure that what you think is the truth?

i'm not experienced with lemon-tek, just sayin... don't want to be impolite, but many of your posts make you seem like an ignorant person.

edit: this was adressed to Ismene
 
But this isn't a fact...?

Well you keep saying that sekio but every fact I've ever read says drugs get processed in the liver rather than the stomach. That's why you can take drugs anally - where there's no acid whatsoever. If the acid in the stomach played much part anal digestion wouldn't work.

Could you explain why psilocybin hits you faster when you take it anally where there's no acid whatsoever? What breaks down the psilocybin then?

Is it enzymes in the liver?

you say one thing, other people say something else

There are thousands of people who say they've seen aliens on UFO's and Ghosts. I don't believe them either. Don't automatically accept things without trying to think such claims through for yourself.
 
The average peak concentration of psilocin after oral
administration of 10 to 20mg psilocybin was 8.2 ( 2.8 ng/ml
plasma and were measured after 105 ± 37 min.

So oral concentration was highest after two hours. Sounds about right. If the psilocybin was being affected by stomach acid don't you think the peak concentration would happen a lot quicker than two hours?
 
I don't think either one of you can definitively prove anything. Let me quote from TiHKAL:

"As I had discussed in the CZ-74 to CEY-19 entries in 4-HO-DET, there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology. Ditto here, with psilocin and psilocybin. I have explored both of them as pure chemicals, and I find them completely interchangeable as to their pharmacological properties."

Source: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal18.shtml

In other words it has not been proven exactly how it metabolizes. Which is why neither of you are able to provide definitive evidence.
 
Not all drugs are metabolized in the liver! That's a gross oversimplification, your body is much more complex than that... some compounds like cocaine and (surprise) psilocybin are metabolized largely in the blood by plasma esterases if they are absorbed by parenteral routes like IV/IM/rectal/snorted. Others are metabolized in the gut, kidney, lungs, brain, prostate, etc. Metabolic enzymes are by no means restricted to the liver.

When compounds are consumed orally and absorbed via the small intenstine the compounds must first pass through the liver before they hit the blood. This explains the slow build in intensiy with e.g. oral 2c-e trips.

This is all mostly irrelevant because psilocybin is rapidly hydrolized to psilocin under almost all bodily conditions. The 'interchangeable' nature of psilocin/psilocybin and basic organic chemistry both strongly suggest it.
 
I don't think either one of you can definitively prove anything.

I thought there was a study done showing psilocybin was "metabolized mostly in the liver".

psilocybin are metabolized largely in the blood by plasma esterases if they are absorbed by parenteral routes like IV/IM/rectal/snorted


I think it still has to pass through the liver first. That's why DMT doesn't work rectally without an MAOI - it gets transported to the liver where enzymes deactivate it.

This is all mostly irrelevant because psilocybin is rapidly hydrolized to psilocin under almost all bodily conditions.

So why is it taking two hours to reach maximum plasma concentrations in the blood? The conversion in the stomach would be pretty instantaneous and then it should be absorbed in the small intestine.
 
You have it backwards, rectal/nasal/smoked/injected substances do not have to be transported through the liver before reaching the blood. Only orally absorbed substances do. All substances in the blood, however, are still subject to metabolism.

This explains the ~2h delay for most oral substances to reach peak concentration.

As far as I know, DMT doesn't work rectally/intranasally very well without MAOI because it can't build to peak concentrations fast enough unlike smoked or injected routes. Not because it's magically metabolized beofre it's getting absorbed.
 
So what's turning the psilocybin into psilocin if there's no acid present in the rectum?

And how come it's quicker when taking it rectallly than orally?
 
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