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    Anyone try the lemon tek for shrooms potentiation? 
    #1
    Ive read alot on it, and I already know that is how im going to dose my next shroom trip, id just like to hear some peoples opinions on the subject. Also, considering that dark chocolate has a natrual MAO in it, would eating dark chocolate (over 50% dark) potentate it even further? If so im gonna have to tell my friend to lay off the coco lol, she eats like three bars of that a day.
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    #2
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    Dark chocolate is not a pharmacy grade MAOI.
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    #3
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    I believe chocolate works more like an SSRI

    anyways, It's not going to be strong enough to make your shrooms enhanced, without taking -too- much chocolate, if you catch my drift.
    (like a huge hunk of 100% bakers chocolate)

    Most of the time when you find 'shroom chocolate bars' in the trade they also have an maoi such as harmala or passion flower in it,
    which has lead to bad things when people combine these with ecstasy/MDMA in hopes of a hippy flip, as MAOI and amphetamines do not mix.


    Look into the passion flower route,
    I've read good things about it, really nice trips come out of it, and you can get passion flower at just about any vitamin store.
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    #4
    I'm fairly certain that lemon juice potentiation is bs. It may perhaps help your stomach to more quickly absorb the active chemicals but I doubt it's doing anything to potentiate the trip. Largely I'm betting it's due to placebo affect.
    Last edited by adrian89987; 16-08-2011 at 06:02.
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    #5
    I've done the lemon tek multiple times and absolutely swear by it. Done right, you'll be balls deep in the trip in less than 30 minutes after ingesting the concoction. Grind the shrooms as finely as you can (coffee grinder works best) and place them in a small glass. Cover with lemon juice and let sit for about an hour, mixing it every 5 minutes or so. This process ensures that the ascorbic acid in the lemon juice has already converted all the psilocybin into psilocin; this usually does not occur until the shrooms are in your stomach. This method is awesome also because there is very little time for the hellish anxiety ridden come up commonly associated with shrooms. It can be mixed with a bit of OJ or fruit juice before you drink it to make the acidity a little more bearable.


    Don't listen to those who say this does not work, they are very wrong. I had an intensely relgious out of body experience with my girlfriend doing this method with 5g of dry cubensis. It just hits you so much faster, the peak is SO much better. It feels like the absolute pinnacle of experience magic mushrooms. And I've tried just about everything, fresh, dry, tea, in chocolates...nothing beats lemon tek.


    Also, as for the dark chocolate, definitely eat that before you nom the shrooms. It was ancient tradition in central america to only consume pure cacao the day of the religious mushroom ceremonies. There is a definite synergy, beyond the simple MAOI pharmacology. IME it lends to a warmer, fuzzier, more happy feeling trip. But I also just fuckin' love dark chocolate, makes me tingle.


    "The Aztec people had a closely related god of the entheogens. Xochipilli, Prince of Flowers, was the divine patron of "the flowery dream" as the Aztecs called the ritual hallucinatory trance. The Aztecs used a number of plant hallucinogens including psilocybian mushrooms (teonanácatl), morning glory seeds, Salvia divinorum, Datura (tlapatl or toloache) , Peyote (peyotl), and mixitl grain. Psilocybian mushrooms were used in ritual and ceremony, served with honey or chocolate at some of their holiest events."



    Happy tripping
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by cryptix420 View Post
    I've done the lemon tek multiple times and absolutely swear by it. Done right, you'll be balls deep in the trip in less than 30 minutes after ingesting the concoction.
    You're tripping 30 minutes after drinking mushroom juice anyway.

    This process ensures that the ascorbic acid in the lemon juice has already converted all the psilocybin into psilocin

    Lemon juice converts psilocybin into psilocin? Where did you hear this? I thought it was done in the body by the alkaline enzyme phosphatase.


    Don't listen to those who say this does not work, they are very wrong


    Or they're right.

    the peak is SO much better

    Why would the peak be better? It's only psilocin. It's just the placebo making you think it's better.

    IME it lends to a warmer, fuzzier, more happy feeling trip

    Could be the placebomine tho cryptix.

    There is a definite synergy, beyond the simple MAOI pharmacology

    You need 300mg of moclobemide to affect a mushroom trip - eating a bar of dark chocolate will have no MAOI effect whatsoever other than placebo.


    Psilocybian mushrooms were used in ritual and ceremony, served with honey or chocolate at some of their holiest events


    Was that because honey and chocolate enhanced the trip tho? Or just because it made them taste better? And the aztecs worshipped chocolate too didn't they.
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    #7
    Bluelighter D n A's Avatar
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    I've always wanted to test this out since checking out the thread on Shroomery ( The Lemon Experience ). I plan to soon test it out over the course of 3 weeks (to ensure that there is no interference) with plain mushrooms, then cranberry juice, and lastly lemon juice. I'd try vinegar but I don't think I can stomach that, lol. It's hard to tell whether its a placebo effect or not, but maybe if we have several people experiment and then post their trip reports and findings here, then we can sum up the results to make an assumption of what really occurs.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ismene View Post
    You're tripping 30 minutes after drinking mushroom juice anyway.

    This process ensures that the ascorbic acid in the lemon juice has already converted all the psilocybin into psilocin

    Lemon juice converts psilocybin into psilocin? Where did you hear this? I thought it was done in the body by the alkaline enzyme phosphatase.


    Don't listen to those who say this does not work, they are very wrong


    Or they're right.

    the peak is SO much better

    Why would the peak be better? It's only psilocin. It's just the placebo making you think it's better.

    IME it lends to a warmer, fuzzier, more happy feeling trip

    Could be the placebomine tho cryptix.

    There is a definite synergy, beyond the simple MAOI pharmacology

    You need 300mg of moclobemide to affect a mushroom trip - eating a bar of dark chocolate will have no MAOI effect whatsoever other than placebo.


    Psilocybian mushrooms were used in ritual and ceremony, served with honey or chocolate at some of their holiest events


    Was that because honey and chocolate enhanced the trip tho? Or just because it made them taste better? And the aztecs worshipped chocolate too didn't they.
    Stop being an idiot here...

    Everyone who tried pre soaking mushrooms in lemon juice says the same thing.

    The comeup is alot shorter the peak is more intense but also the comedown in faster so when the shrooms wear off they do so quickly...


    You wan´t a explanation on why? well since you soak the mushrooms in very acidic juice it makes the woek your tummy usually does for you and therefor you get all the psilocin reacting at once instead of a slow onset since your stomach doesnt need to brake it down as much.
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    #9
    So essentially... NOT potentiation, just aiding in absorption.. We could try to extract very pure psilocybin/psilocin and then just inject that shit I'm sure that would 'potentiate' it a helluva a lot more.

    In order to truly test this we would have to do some double-blind testing and such. Comparing a mushroom tea void of any lemon juice to a mushroom tea with lemon juice.
    Hah, and eating 5 grams of mushrooms dried and chewed would for SURE give me a out of control and potentially religious experience.
    Last edited by adrian89987; 16-08-2011 at 17:08.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacemonkey5000 View Post
    Everyone who tried pre soaking mushrooms in lemon juice says the same thing.
    Not everyone. Just because some teenager says so doesn't make it true. Most people experienced with mushrooms will tell you it's bullshit.

    You wan´t a explanation on why?

    If you like son.


    well since you soak the mushrooms in very acidic juice it makes the woek your tummy usually does


    Back up a minute. For a start digestion is done by enzymes - not the acid in your tummy. So the first basis of your theory is complet horseshit.

    therefor you get all the psilocin reacting at once

    It's still got to be digested and get absorbed into your bloodstream.

    The comeup is alot shorter the peak is more intense but also the comedown in faster so when the shrooms wear off they do so quickly...

    This is all in your mind. It's nothing to do with soaking it in lemon juice.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by adrian89987 View Post
    So essentially... NOT potentiation, just aiding in absorption..
    I don't think it even helps absorption adrian. Drinking mushroom tea will hit you just as quickly as drinking "lemon soaked" mushroom tea. The effect of "lemon" is pure placebo.
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    #12
    Hmmm, I always heard the Lemon Tek was a waste of time.
    Just eating them crushed into a powder always works great for me.
    Placed in chocolates or applesauce or something.

    Personally I prefer 4-AcO-DMT though...
    I'd like to combine it with shrooms at some point, that would be deep
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    #13
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    Y'all need to back the fuck up an' learn some chemistry.

    The reason the Lemon Tek works good is due to two properties of the active components in the fungus (fungus among us.. say that 3x fast).

    The first is the conversion of psilocybin to psilocin. Psilocybin is a chemical compound known as an ester - a compound that's made of an alcohol and an acid bound together. Now, when you expose esters to acidic or basic conditions in water, they snap open to the parent alcohol and acid. In our case, the lemon juice opens psilocybin to psilocin and phosphoric acid (scary sounding - but it's used in cola as an acidifier and is safe for use in food). This reaction happens in your stomach when psilocybin hits the hydrochloric acid - it's not restricted to being done by enzymes! They just help the reaction happen under more mild conditions (like in your blood, where excess acid would be a Bad Thing).

    The other "half" of the tek comes from the fact that *pure* psilocin freebase doesn't dissolve very well in water. It has to form a salt first, and it needs an acid to do that. Either the citric acid or the generated phosphoric acid complexes with the psilocin (and psilocybin too!) and makes it into an ionic compound which dissolve in water easily (e.g. psilocin citrate). Having psilocin or other alkaloids already dissolved in water means you don't have to wait for them to leach out of the mushrooms sitting in your stomach - they can diffuse right across the small intestine and get to partyin'. This means a faster onset.

    The same reaction happens with 4-AcO-DMT. It's converted to psilocin and acetic acid.

    So in summary, while the Lemon Tek might not provide any serious potentiation, it does have a scientific basis for why people do it, and why it kicks in rapidly.

    More about ester hydrolysis.
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    #14
    Thanks sekio, good read.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
    This reaction happens in your stomach when psilocybin hits the hydrochloric acid - it's not restricted to being done by enzymes! [/URL]
    But psilocybin still has to be metabolized to psilocin by enzymes in the liver.

    If you took pure psilocin you wouldn't just swallow it and start tripping instantly - it's got to go through the liver first.

    means you don't have to wait for them to leach out of the mushrooms sitting in your stomach

    If it's all done by acid in the stomach why is psilocybin mostly metablized to psilocin by enzymes in the liver?
    Last edited by Ismene; 17-08-2011 at 08:09.
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    #16
    hey man, i've seen you around and you seem alright, so why all the hate here? It's not a great idea to be so ridiculously skeptical about something when

    1 - the facts are right in front of you
    2 - you've never even tried it. i've eaten mushrooms upwards of 30 times, and over a third of those times were lemon tek'd. the shit works.


    and yeah, i'm not sure about 'potentiation' as much as aiding in absorption. Sort of like how a bong compares to a pipe...the bong doesn't potentiate the weed, but you're sure as hell gonna get way higher much faster.

    if you've still got doubts you can check out this 65 page thread over at the shroomery.
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    #17
    Well I tried it last night on a gram of stems and one cap, on a stomach full of spagetti, and I had a pretty intense trip. moderate oev, with complex cev, took 30 min to kick in, an hour to peak. I think there really may be something to this, ive never tripped hard on such a light dose.
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    #18
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    I used to wonder a lot about this question, but then I asked myself "Why do I care?"
    Why not just take mushrooms, preferably without ANYTHING else (even food)? You can be more precise about your dose that way. And if you want a stronger experience...take...more...
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    #19
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    But psilocybin still has to be metabolized to psilocin by enzymes in the liver.
    ... nnnoooo, not at all. From a fatal poisoning involving psilocybe spp:
    This was performed on methanolic extracts from the gastric content, blood and hydrolysats from kidney and liver. We tried to detect halucinogenic indolic components and especially psilocybin and psilocin. Psilocybin rapidly hydrolyses in the body to create psilocin which is the biologically active substance. This hydrolysis is performed in the ratio 100 / 72, depending on each molecular weight. We found psilocin but no psilocybin, not even in the gastric content, which confirmed the rapid hydrolysis because of the high acidity of the gastric juice.
    You are correct that psilocin still has to diffuse through the liver, but as a fairly fat-soluble indole compound it diffuses relatively rapidly. Psilocin can also produce effects at very low doses.
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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
    Y'all need to back the fuck up an' learn some chemistry.

    The reason the Lemon Tek works good is due to two properties of the active components in the fungus (fungus among us.. say that 3x fast).

    The first is the conversion of psilocybin to psilocin. Psilocybin is a chemical compound known as an ester - a compound that's made of an alcohol and an acid bound together. Now, when you expose esters to acidic or basic conditions in water, they snap open to the parent alcohol and acid. In our case, the lemon juice opens psilocybin to psilocin and phosphoric acid (scary sounding - but it's used in cola as an acidifier and is safe for use in food). This reaction happens in your stomach when psilocybin hits the hydrochloric acid - it's not restricted to being done by enzymes! They just help the reaction happen under more mild conditions (like in your blood, where excess acid would be a Bad Thing).

    The other "half" of the tek comes from the fact that *pure* psilocin freebase doesn't dissolve very well in water. It has to form a salt first, and it needs an acid to do that. Either the citric acid or the generated phosphoric acid complexes with the psilocin (and psilocybin too!) and makes it into an ionic compound which dissolve in water easily (e.g. psilocin citrate). Having psilocin or other alkaloids already dissolved in water means you don't have to wait for them to leach out of the mushrooms sitting in your stomach - they can diffuse right across the small intestine and get to partyin'. This means a faster onset.

    The same reaction happens with 4-AcO-DMT. It's converted to psilocin and acetic acid.

    So in summary, while the Lemon Tek might not provide any serious potentiation, it does have a scientific basis for why people do it, and why it kicks in rapidly.

    More about ester hydrolysis.
    OMG facts
    this was highly enjoyable and informative.. thanks! Was wondering how this shit worked anyways. I think I'll just save this on my computer now..

    Perhaps the Lemon Tek does not work as well for some people, after all, we all digest things at different rates and not all of us have the exact same body chemistry. Even if this is a placebo effect, it DOES enhance the effects for most people who test it out. Placebos are just fantastic. Perhaps if I swallow my LSD and RCs with lemon juice too, I'll make myself believe it'll also work for them and trip BALLS!! ..or not, maybe it'll fuck things up. In any case.. hey, it might work, why not test it out and see?
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
    ... nnnoooo, not at all.
    We'll have to disagree on that sekio - do a search for "psilocybin metabolized by the liver" and there's a few hundred pages on it. I believe it was established in scientific studies as far back as 1962.

    Which brings up the interesting point that psilocybin, if it's being metabolized by the liver, is passing through the powerful hydrochloric acid in your stomach unchanged. So if stomach acid has no effect on it, what effect does soaking it in lemon juice have?

    the facts are right in front of you

    Hold on cryptix, the facts are right in front of me and they're saying quite clearly that lemon juice has no effect whatsoever, psilocybin is metabolized in the liver - if stomach hydrochloric acid has no effect on it, what does lemon juice? What say you?

    you've never even tried it.

    It's not about "trying it" - that's the whole power of placebo. Psilocybin puts you in a highly suggestible state of mind. If someone gave me a capsuled mushroom and said "This is the most powerful, visual mushroom strain that has ever been grown" I'd probably have a powerful trip even if it was cubensis. You have to take the placebo effect out of this.

    I've been hearing stories about "orange juice makes you trip harder, no, orange juice kills the trip, no blackcurrant juice is the one that makes you trip harder" for years. Eventually you realise that whatever someone beleives will make them trip harder will work purely by placebo.
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    #22
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    I don't doubt that IV psilocybin is hit by liver and plasma esterases, but oral psilocybin is hydrolysed pretty fast when it hits the HCl of the stomach. Remember that older psychedelic studies i.e. from the 70s and before had a much smaller knowledge base to work from - and at times some papers were clearly incorrect science. (LSD chromosome damage?)
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
    From a fatal poisoning involving psilocybe spp:
    Fatal poisoning from mushrooms? The only mushroom overdose in human history? How seriously do you take this article? With a summary "this shows mushrooms are not innocuous" it sounds like blatant anti-drug propaganda from the start. (Anyone with any grasp of science would think that one overdose from a drug in recorded human history would show the drug is the safest known to mankind)

    Whether you'd take the "toxicology" seriously is up to you. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by D n A View Post
    I've always wanted to test this out since checking out the thread on Shroomery ( The Lemon Experience ). I plan to soon test it out over the course of 3 weeks (to ensure that there is no interference) with plain mushrooms, then cranberry juice, and lastly lemon juice. I'd try vinegar but I don't think I can stomach that, lol. It's hard to tell whether its a placebo effect or not, but maybe if we have several people experiment and then post their trip reports and findings here, then we can sum up the results to make an assumption of what really occurs.
    I'm down to test this, next time I get mushrooms.



    Also: I feel like I started this mess here by pointing in the direction of lemon tek in that other thread regarding mushroom tea.
    I never stated the lemon tech was "better, or more intense" But I feel getting rid of most of the psilocybin and leaving purely psilocin makes you have an over-all less anxious/crazy trip.
    It also makes sense that it would kick in quickly, just as shroom tea would.
    I just suggested it over shroom tea because it's harder to mess up, you wont lose yer precious alkaloids (because theres no heat) and overall you'll also have something probably more bare-able to drink. Make a an 'Arnold Palmer' with it, yumm!
    Last edited by Devourer; 18-08-2011 at 14:04.
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sekio View Post
    I don't doubt that IV psilocybin is hit by liver and plasma esterases, but oral psilocybin is hydrolysed pretty fast when it hits the HCl of the stomach. Remember that older psychedelic studies i.e. from the 70s and before had a much smaller knowledge base to work from - and at times some papers were clearly incorrect science. (LSD chromosome damage?)
    I dunno sekio - I've always been under the impression that tryptamines, in fact pretty much every drug there is, gets metabolized by enzymes in the liver. If that's the case then obviously the lemon tek is a load of shit.

    If you think psilocybin is unique in getting metabolized in stomach acid then you might be onto something.

    Still not sure how much faster it makes the absorption tho - I bet if you took psilocybin rectally (where there's no acid at all) it would still hit you quickler than taking it orally.

    Also: I feel like I started this mess here

    So it's all your fault is it devourer? ...
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