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[MEGA]Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences Part 4

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been here much, been going through a bunch of tests with doctors, been sick , throwing up / coughing up blood, also coming out the other end. I might be a little less active for the next week and a half or so, have alot of doctors tests and what not,

I figured at first it was my bleeding stomach ulcer, but, the doctors haven't said anything. Ive been taking 3 medications for quite a while, Clonidine (.3 mg), Xanax (2 1/2 mg), and Subutex (24mg). And needless to say Ive been smoking just to be able to eat without throwing it back up.

I'll try to keep in touch and post pics and what not when I get the chance. Hope everyones grow is going well,
 
I just want to know if my plants are in danger of completely dying. This is bad :( They wake up in about 2 hours. Gonna up the feed massively and take pics. I will post them later.
 
*UPDATE*

Just fed them. Upped the feed to 35ml/g of CNS17 and 20ml/g of PureBlend. I took some new pictures. GROUP A shows the plants and yellowing leaves. GROUP B shows the tops of the plants. GROUP C shows pure flower awesomeness :) - By the way, we checked the run-off PH and its 5.5 which is low. We adjust the PH before we feed/water them to make sure it is 6.5 - What should we do?


GROUP A
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GROUP B
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GROUP C
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Yep 5.5 is to low, good thing you checked it. See what I was saying AE ;)

You can try adding dolomite lime to your soil, or just keep adjusting your water to 6.5-7 and flush heavily(3 times the pot size is what you should aim for)
 
We always adjust our PH to 6.5 but somehow the runoff is 5.5 - You're saying we should flush and continue to adjust? How will this make a difference since we do it already?
 
We always adjust our PH to 6.5 but somehow the runoff is 5.5 - You're saying we should flush and continue to adjust? How will this make a difference since we do it already?
Did you ever try flushing with adjusted water? If it were me, I would flush heavily untill the pH tests out to 6.5ish and test it everyday to see were it stands.

If the pH continues to drop over the day then get some dolomite lime and wack some in your soil. Lime has a neutral pH of 7 which will keep your levels in good balance.
 
*UPDATE*

We just checked them and we are still seeing yellowing. The following is our feeding schedule:

1.) We started to see yellowing so we fed them 10ml/g (the recommended dose is 25ml/g)

2.) Two days later we noticed the yellowing was persisting so we fed them 20ml/g

3.) Two days later the same thing. We upped it to 25ml/g.

4. Two days later the same thing. We upped it to 30ml/g.

5.) We just checked them and the yellowing is still present. Even more leaves than before. I guess we should just keep upping the dosage. I guess next will be 40ml/g. The top of the plants and buds look beautiful but these lower leaves are really yellow. Some are dying off.

6.) *2nd Update* More and More leaves are dying and falling off. I really need to up the feed dramatically it seems. Perhaps feed them daily instead of every other day.

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Are we talking just a few yellow leaves? The close up is on just one part of the plant and it's hard to see the plant as a whole.

I'm getting the feeling there might be no deficiency issue.

Healthy plants do throw off the odd yellow leaf.

The pH debate - here's my take

* IMO run off pH run off or pH is meaningless. I've seen a fair few growers ruin their grow based on run off pH and EC. The concentration of soluble compounds is so variable it just doesn't work. That's my opinion.

* If the pH of the medium is correct, adjusting the pH of the nutrient solution is pointless, because the soil acts as a buffer. If you (when I say 'you' I mean anyone reading this) don't know what a pH buffer is then Google it, but it compensates for a high or low pH in the feed.

If it did make a difference, then why does it make no difference when I water with acid rainwater compared to tapwater with a much higher pH (sometimes the difference is as much as 300 times the difference in pH?).

It's the pH of the medium itself that counts, not the water/feed that's used on it. This is why you can't grow health plants in just pure peat moss - you need to add dolomite lime or even garden lime. However pH issues inherent with the medium itself cannot be fixed by changing your feed pH. To do that would take far longer than the life cycle of the cannabis plant.

Ever see grows watered with rainwater, and how they flourish (even more than tapwater grows at times)? Do you know what the average pH of rainwater is? Usually around 5.6 in my area at the moment (although variable). If pH were such an issue then gardeners collecting rainwater in water butts to water their pot plants would have started noticing an issue.

Growing in soilless mixes is not like growing in coco or other passive hydro media at all. In all these, adjusting feed pH is critical, but with soilless media it's the pH of the medium itself that's important, not the feed. Of course people very frequently grow in coco, perlite/vermiculite, fytocell etc. where pH adjustment is essential, and so naturally assume doing so is beneficial for soilless mix media. But this is incorrect and they make this mistake because they have had little to no prior gardening experience.

And just a cautionary warning - you should never use dolomite and fertilizer at the same time. Dolomite lime really should be mixed into the medium when it's made and left to settle for a few weeks at least before use (more time that with garden lime). Getting the proportions of dolomite to potting media right requires knowledge of soil science and how the ingredients interact and really is best left to the soilless mix manufacturers who have the process automated to a degree, to get a consistent product.

Wise et al. please don't take this personally. I think we've realized that we can disagree about these things and not take it the wrong way, but I really do disagree with a couple of the points you're making. Fair play to you for trying though, and it's all about a collective learning experience. I'm not always right but on this issue I'm pretty sure. It's good to debate these things without it turning into an ugly flame war as it happens so often on other forums.

Spanso, one thing you can do, regardless of the pH issue, is to change to a quality organic fishmix type fertilizer (it's not too late) instead, like Biobizz fishmix and use it on at least one plant. If you try different things with different clones (remember, iirc, they're all identical clones of the same plant and should behave very similarly, meaning experimenting is more meaningful) then you can work out what works the best.

It could very well be that the feed itself is shite. If you don't want to listen to anything I've said about pH, then at least do yourself a favor and adjust the pH with citric acid, since it's organic and is more appropriate for growing in dirt if it's watered in straight away and doesn't sit in some hydro res constantly. Adding phosphoric acid or nitric acid to lower the pH can add phosphates and nitrates to the (NP)K value of the feed, to a minor extent. Keep that in mind!

If you want, come back with 3 things:

- the pH of your plain tapwater straight from the tap.
- the pH of your feed at 10ml/gallon
- the pH of your feed at the highest dose you were using

But if the medium you bought was any good in the first place, they would have already added dolomite lime to it to begin with. They should have mixed it in such a way that the pH is around 6.5 or thereabouts.
 
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I made a new post so the previous one was not so long nobody would bother reading it. I'll try not to make a habit of it.


Spanso, if you're using a nutrient that isn't organic and is designed for soil at the very least,

1. Do you know if you have soft or hard water? If you have the former, buy a nutrient designed for soft water or if you have the latter, buy one designed for hard water.

2. Buy an organic nutrient. I can't stress it enough! The soil microherd (this includes bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa etc) will actually break the organic nutrient down and feed your plant for you. So you feed the soil, not the plant. This is better for you and gives better tasting weed. It's also better for the environment as well.

I will do an experiment using clones of one phenotype using the same nutrient dosage -

Clone #1: control using plain tap water and/or rain water with nutrient. pH will be measured but not adjusted.

Clone #2: pH adjusted to 5 after nutrient is added.

Clone #3: pH adjusted to 6.5 after nutrient is added.

Clone #4: pH adjusted to 7 after nutrient is added.

B&Q multipurpose compost will be used and the same dose of organic fishmix added, for simplicity when nutrient reserves in the medium itself run out. The environment will be uniform and equal for all plants. I will possibly upload a video to Youtube via a proxy site at an internet café and give a link to it, subject to the mods' approval, so you can see what I'm doing and am not just making it up.

I may also grow a plant in pure peat moss (acidic) and feed it with fee with a high pH to counteract the natural acidity. I may use pH'd nutrient solutions of 7, 8 and 9 to show how futile correcting a medium who's pH is off by adjusting the irrigation/feed pH is.

I bet my reputation all clones' growth in the 1st experiment will be pretty identical. We shall see. It's not so much to prove a point, but to clear up this issue that's been going on for some time. If the results are not what I expect, I will have no shame in holding my hands up and saying it is what it is and will do further tests.

Unfortunately I have no plants in my greenhouse right now since they were all stolen (I think), so the location will be a new one (and secret as well).
 
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The PH of my water from the tap is 9.0 - we adjust it to 6.5

and yes it's just a few fan leaves around the middle of each plant.
 
The PH of my water from the tap is 9.0 - we adjust it to 6.5

and yes it's just a few fan leaves around the middle of each plant.

Sorry for some reason I read that the tapwater pH was 5.5, not the run off. What date did you start adjusting your pH from 9 to 6.5 (how long ago)?

I would call the water company up to at least get them to tell you if it's soft or hard in the meantime. It's more likely hard than not, but check anyway. This will allow you to buy tailor made feeds.

Tell me which CNS17 product you're using, so I don't have to go back?

Also, what soil are you using? Have you seen other successful grows/grow diaries using that soil?

Sorry if you're having to repeat yourself, it's just that I only have a limited time and a shit memory, so if you just give me that info I'd be able to help quicker (that is if you want my advice and I'm not talking out of place).
 
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CNS17 Ripe (currently using 30ml/g)
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and Pure Blend Bloom (20ml/g)
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The soil is called Basement Mix - The ingredients are: Cocoa Fiber Based Soiless Grow Medium. Cocoa Fiber, Humbolt Forrest Humus, Compost, Perlite, Lava Rock, Earth Worm Castings, Fish Bone Meal, Feather Meal, Bat Guano, Seabird Guano, Kelp Meal, Oyster Shell, Silica, Alfalfa Meal, Cocoa Chips.
 
^ no point in beating about the bush - the manufacturer that made that soil knows shit about soil science. Sounds exotic though and I'm sure it sells really well!

My advice would be to switch to a single part feed like fishmix. One nutrient bottle is needed and you dose the nutrient in veg and bloom accordingly. No different formulas are needed for veg or flower. Beginners need to keep it simple and work up from there.

If I were you I would give it a shot of bloodmeal to see what happens if you refuse to stop using that feed. A good NPK bloom feed for compost is 3-5-4.

Buying a 1L bottle of fishmix won't cost you a lot of money and it's not too late. You can't go wrong that way. Using an organic food is most important in flower and CNS17 and that ripe one are not organic at all afaik.
 
Ok so I buy a 1L bottle of fishmix. How do I administer it and how do I know how much to put in?

Also - Is fishmix the only thing I feed the plants? Should I leech them first? I'm also not good with leeching I've never done it before, I know you should put 3x the amount of the pot. So if its 5gl you should put 15gl... but I have no real way of measuring how much water I put in the pot... how many seconds from the tap on full blast should it be? lol.
 
Fishmix is the best single fertilizer on the market that's widely available in most grow shops. It's amazing stuff and you can do a grow from start to finish just with it and nothing else. It's also one of the best fertilizers for feeding the soil biology/microherd.

The dosage is 2-5ml per litre of water. So late in bloom before the last two weeks, you'd use about 3-5ml. Start at 3ml and increase until they look healthy.

No you should not bother flushing them. Just water them with plain tap water the next time they're due to be watered and then the next water after that, feed the with 3-4ml fishmix per litre water. Simples.
 
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I don't take offense. This is your passion and you are enlightening people by correcting them. I can see how some people take offense but I'm one to accept knowledge so I see it as a learning opportunity.

Anyways, So I will water them tonight with plain tapwater and wait for them to dry... then feed them 3ml per litre the next time they are dry? Also, how many ml per gallon is it? We use a 5 gallon bucket.
 
about 19 litres in 5 gallons... so... 57ml total? :)

We should still stop feeding the last 2 weeks right? Even with the fish mix?
 
So I will water them tonight with plain tapwater and wait for them to dry... then feed them 3ml per litre the next time they are dry? Also, how many ml per gallon is it? We use a 5 gallon bucket.

1 US gallon = 3.7854L

Therefore 3ml fishmix per litre water is the same as 11.4ml per US gallon. 5ml/L is the same as 18.9ml/US gallon.

about 19 litres in 5 gallons... so... 57ml total? :)

We should still stop feeding the last 2 weeks right? Even with the fish mix?

No, reduce the dosage by a 22% for the first 4 days (I'll do the calculation when the time comes if you wish, please don't be too embarrassed to ask) and then the lower dose by 27% on the 7th day until the buds are ready to harvest (again, I'll calculate the dose).

You need to work out what dose between 11.4ml and 18.9ml per gallon keeps them nice and green. Then you know what to reduce the dose to.
 
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