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Thread: DXM Hbr's TRUE Water Solubility & Sucrets Extraction Mystery

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    DXM Hbr's TRUE Water Solubility & Sucrets Extraction Mystery 
    #1
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    Academic looking source, http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims...L%20PROPERTIES, says that dxm hbr water solubility is 1.5g/100mL.
    Dextroverse and other site/forum/recipes for Sucrets extraction says that dxm hbr water solubility is 1.5mg/100mL. (I'd post the links but idk if that's allowed.)

    Witch is true?

    Google this - "1.5mg/100mL" & "dxm"

    then google this - "1.5g/100mL" & "dxm"

    Wtf... ?!?!

    How could the water extraction method for Sucrets lozenges work if solubility is 1.5g/100mL?

    Thanks Bluelight.
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    #2
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    It's soluble 1.5g/100ml ("1.5%"), not 1.5mg/100ml. I think that figure is for hot water, solubility in cold water will probably be even less. 1.5mg/100ml sounds like the figure for DXM freebase.

    The Sucrets extraction relies on you having a ton of DXM-based lozenges and using little water. It is lossy, but the idea is you do it with so many lozenges you can stomach the 1% loss.
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    #3
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    Thanks for your simple yet awesome explanation. It all makes sense to me now and I think i'm gonna start crushing Sucrets.

    Wait a minute.. all 36 of my lozenges = 360 mg's of dxm hbr (0.36 gram right?) and there's no way i'm getting them that into 100 mL's of water lol.. so once again how could this extraction possibly work. Using a little bit of water I can understand but now we're talking miniscule amounts of liquid absorbing massive quantities of solids. Please provide me with further assistance. Thanks.
    Last edited by judasschwarz; 07-06-2011 at 19:03. Reason: I'm confused again.
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    #4
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    Since dxm hbr is very water soluable why couldn't one just bust the loz's and dissolve em in boiling water, filter out the gunk, and let the water evaporate? Wouldn't the residue left behind after the water evaporates be dxm hbr? Also, if one wanted to shorten the evap time, at what temperature is dxm hbr damaged/lost?
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    #5
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    You either have to use more lozenges or less liquid. Remember that the water will be saturated with sugars and colors and will have less affinity for the DXM.

    I would cover your lozenges in a minimum amount of boiling water and stir gently until most of the stuff dissolves, then cool it down (freezer cold would be good) and remove the liquid. Eat the grit that's left behind.

    Pure DXM HBr will dissolve into hot water 1.5g/100ml. That's not "very soluble", and it's much less soluble in cold water. It's fairly heat stable, however.

    If you want to do an evaporation you will end up with caramel because those Sucrets have sugars in them.


    The best way to do an extraction is Agent Lemon or similar.
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    #6
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    Well thanks for the continued assistance but I actually (believe it or not) don't get high/drink anymore (clean date July 4th, 2009). I just have friends that get high and I'd like to watch em trip out. I also am very interested in it for the erm... educational value we'll say.

    And at what temp does dxm hbr start to precipitate out of water?
    Last edited by judasschwarz; 07-06-2011 at 19:37. Reason: uhhh cause its like 30 seconds later
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    #7
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    You need to read up on solubility. it's not a binary thing - there will always be a small amount of DXM that dissolves. Even at 0 degrees C. I can't find any concrete data for solubility vs. temperature, but I would expect it's less soluble in ice-cold water saturated with sugars than boiling clean water.

    Sucrets extractions are just not terribly efficient, deal with it. If you are really concerned about getting all the DXM then make Sucrets Kool-Aid or pack the smashed lozenges in gelcaps or something. There is no way to end up with 90% DXM Hbr with kitchen supplies.

    I don't care if you're not ingesting it, the idea is the same. I'm sure you get the point.
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    #8
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    The point was never about losing a little bit of dxm. The point is that with that solubility rate it "seems" theoretically impossible to have any dxm precipitate out of the water and sink to the bottom. I mean its f'in impossible to stuff enough Sucrets equaling +1.5 g of dxm into 100 mL of water. Granted Idk shit about chemistry but it just seems logically unsound. Thanks for your continued efforts and assistance.
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    #9
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    The solubility figure given is almost always for dissolving a pure substance in a pure solvent with the most agitation and heating you can get. It's a "worst-case" answer and real-world solubility is generally less. You're right - you won't get 1.5g DXM plus sugars, colors, binders dissolved in 100ml water. You might get 1.5g pure DXM dissolved if you tried, but not in the from of lozenges!

    DXM (and other hydrophobic things) doesn't like to dissolve when the solution is already saturated with other things that like to dissolve in water.
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    #10
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    Now that makes sense to me. All in all I guess its just something I'm gonna have to try for myself.. kinda like agent lemon and the ammonia/naptha then evap method. I tried those but I ain't fed anyone the agent lemon or the crystals yet. Did the Delsym extract too but hell any idiot could do that.
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    #11
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    i've done the sucrets extraction before and i'm fairly sure the DXM stays in the powder that collects at the bottom.
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    #12
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    Well after trying the Sucrets extraction I wouldn't recommend it. I did 36 lozenges (5mg dxm each) and ended up with over 9 grams of material. The actual amount of dxm in that 9 grams is approximately 180mg's. I'm thinking about washing the powder with some naptha in an effort to further refine it. Anyone attempted this before willing to share there experiences? Or anyone with chemistry knowledge willing to give advice?
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    #13
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    If you want to purify it further, try adding sodium hydroxide and extracting into naptha, a la Agent Lemon.
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    #14
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    I've done the agent lemon method successfully before but I don't like ending up with a goo. I like the final product to be a powder. So instead using lemon juice to extract the dxm from naptha I plan on just letting the naptha evaporate.
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    #15
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    You'll end up with the less stable DXM freebase then. If you need nice DXM HBr powder then honestly your best method of getting it is buying in bulk... but I can't tell you where.
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    #16
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    Define "less stable" for me please?

    I wouldn't say that I "need" HBr. I am simply playing with them to find out easiest/ most efficient to acquire at this time.

    I've never ordered any substances off the net and I'm scared that I'll just end up losing money that way.
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    #17
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    Less stable = more susceptible to being degraded by the oxygen, moisture etc in the air.
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    #18
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    Oh that's a big no no.

    You were right. I "need" HBr.
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