RC stimulants for beginners, including harm reduction...

Dedbeet

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
1,560
I began this post as an informational post on MDPV, a substance that I've been a guinea pig for since 2004 when it first came out. I've also been a stimulant user, on and off, since around 1979... yep, I'm kinda experienced, as Jimi might put it ;).

The post eventually became something that started to look increasingly useful for the MDPV (and general RC stimulant) newcomer. Most of it applies as well to mephedrone, 4-FMP, and any substance that is primarily stimulating/energizing rather than entactogenic. "True stimulants", in other words.

So I thought I'd post it here (for now, anyway) and add to it over the next day or so until it became a reference I felt was worthy of being read by someone new to these substances. Perhaps eventually a "reference thread" that experienced users can add to themselves.

And the substances in question can definitely be daunting for the newcomer, IMO, particularly one without enough information. Look at what happened to so many who did "bath salts" without knowing anything about them. There have also been a rash of complaints and horror stories related to MDPV and mephedrone, mostly posted by inexperienced users with a ton of strong feelings and (what seems to me like) too little information and experience behind them.

IMO, it's irrelevent in the end whether drugs are recommended, ignored, or *recommended against* -- people will do them. Know yourself. Know your drug. Then harm reduction becomes both feasible, and the best possible course of action.

Please don't touch this shit with a lighter from underneath
Particularly if you're not good at it/careless... when it catches fire, you'll inhale a lungful of transistor-radio-tasting smoke and go flying backwards at the same time =D.

Smoking MDPV is weird shit, lemme tell ya... there have been times have it where I've had a lot around, ran out of lighter fluid and started hitting off the kitchen stove burner in large amounts. Followed by wandering the house in a state of delerium for a couple hours, not knowing where or who I was. If that doesn't sound like fun, I agree... don't get started with smoking it. For all intents and purposes, it is crack.

Not that large amounts via other ROA's (such as snorting) is any better. You can just as easily dip into dopamine psychosis through too-frequent intranasal dosing. And you may not know any better if you start hallucinating your hands swelling up, or your face turning grey/purple, or see your feet go all red white and blue like the American flag... you'll think you're dying of MDPV-related causes.

That's one thing medics are damn good for, BTW... they can tell you if your body is disintegrating before your eyes, or if you're only hallucinating it. Chances are all that's real are the cracked black scab on your lip, the trash / clothing / debris scattered around the house, and your growing notoriety amongst local area paramedics. You can also easily lose a lot of weight and lapse into a chronic, intractable state of sleep deprivation. The comedown/crash can get so difficult that dying would be easier, and certainly far less torturous.

That said, it is an astonishingly "mental" drug. Luckily, most of what happens /can happen with MDPV is in your mind, thus can be re-thought and changed, provided you eat, sleep and move about the way you're supposed to. How far can one's body be pushed in terms of overstimulation, inactivity, malnutrition and sleep deprivation? F*ck if I know, but I'm sure there are limits.

Do something really stupid like hard alcohol (or opiates/benzos) very heavily and rail big lines of MDPV, and you're dead.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/256566/3/Woman-dies-after-bath-salts-overdose-in-Alton

If you're going to be irresponsible, do it responsibly =D. On Bluelight, they call that harm reduction.

My take on MDPV ROA's (routes of administration):

The major difference in the various ROA's, IME, is how quickly the effects come on (which equates to 'rush', and also to potential addictiveness).

The quickest ROA's are smoking and slamming/IV'ing, and that applies to most drugs. You can have a large amount hit you very suddenly, thus feeling a rush. It will also be more addictive via these ROA's, both in the short/binge and long terms.

Smoking is wasteful -- it burns a lot of drug that never gets into your system, even if you do it carefully. You'll go through your supply VERY fast when smoking it. It also subjects you to toxic byproducts, which are *not* a myth... you'll taste them from time to time and gag, I guarantee it. However, it's the quickest/most potent ("rush-iest") ROA, short of IV'ing... you can get large amounts of substance into your body very quickly. Watch it, as too many big hits too close together can send you into panic/anxiety, delerium or psychosis.

IV'ing (slamming) is both the most conservative (amount-wise) and the fastest-acting (rush/high-wise). A purist will insist on this method. However, it is the riskiest route of administration, as it's never safe to put anything directly into your bloodstream. The bloodstream was not designed to have anything introduced into it directly, and IV'ing is risky even under sterile medical conditions, with the substance administered by a physician. You can't take it back, either... once it's in, it's in.

Intranasal and rectal are also pretty quick -- in particular, intranasal (snorting) is probably the least wasteful way to use the drug, short of IV'ing.... your supply of MDPV will likely last the longest when you use it intranasally. Dissolving it in some water first and administering it via a vaporizer can be helpful in terms of exact dosing, as long as you don't dissolve large amounts (keep it to 50-100mg at a time max), since MDPV tends to break down fairly fast in solution. The drug will be absorbed rapidly through the nasal mucosa, and what isn't will be swallowed and absorbed in the stomach/intestines.

Rectal (plugging) is interesting, and can be a convenient one-off dosing method, provided you're comfortable with it. But it's really no better than intranasal, IME, and probably not as good. You don't need to bypass first-pass metabolism, particularly if you're using intranasally. It can also be potentially wasteful, depending on the condition of the inside of your rectum.

Oral administration (eating it) is often the worst ROA, despite its popularity. Not only does it take a long time to come on, but can be wasteful due to incomplete oral bioavailability. However, the resulting high can be the most stable and predictable, with the fewest ups and downs.

In short -- If "big rushes" are the most important, I'd go for smoking/vaping. If conserving product is the most important, I'd go for snorting/intranasal. If both are the most important, I'd go for IV'ing/slamming.

My take on rapidity of effects:

Most stim users seem to equate euphoria with a sudden rush (a large amount coming on rapidly), but that isn't the only type of euphoria to be had from stims. A gradual, sustained, high blood level can feel like a completely different drug. I recommend experimenting with dosing very small and very often, particularly if you like the sexual side of stimulants. IME, roller-coaster rushing is not as conducive to them as a steady, strong, intense high that one has fully adapted to and that presents no surprises. Then you can pull out the porn and enjoy =D.

My take on MDPV's reputation

MDPV has kind of acquired a reputation as a scary and dangerous drug. The fact is that it really isn't (although it hasn't been proven safe either) -- it's very similar to pyrovalerone, which is a schedule 5 controlled substance in the U.S. that has been medically approved and prescribed for weight loss. That's less controlled than Valium is (although that says nothing directly about its dangers, it's suggestive).

So why is MDPV looked at the way it is? Several reasons. First off, the "bath salt" thing in the media, which involves people who know/knew nothing whatsoever about the drug or how it should be used. Secondly, MDPV is actually *safe enough* that people can and do abuse it very heavily without severely injuring or killing themselves... so they do that, and then complain about what is in fact their extreme over-use of the drug, not the drug itself. Thirdly, stimulants (including MDPV) can make you feel like you're going to die or go crazy, whether you're going to or not, and people post what the drug makes them feel like, oftentimes while under the influence.

If you look at things entirely in perspective, taking into account MDPV's essential similarity to pyrovalerone and the fact that people can/do use a gram of the stuff in a day when the normal dosage is 5/1000ths of that every four hours -- MDPV looks astonishingly safe for a stimulant of its type. IMO, your likelihood of significant short-term injury from use of the drug alone (not mixed with anything else) at reasonable doses is virtually nil. In other words, the effects from one-off/occasional use can scare you sh*tless (or make you feel crazy), but probably will not harm you in any lasting or unrecoverable way.

A final opinion on MDPV from 'yours truly' -- can a single/one-off use of MDPV get you addicted? No, I don't think so. Can using it several / a few times get you addicted? Yes -- I believe it can. The fact is that addiction/compulsion is MDPV's primary concern, and it is real. That is why pyrovalerone is prescribed so rarely, and MDPV is no different. There's something about the alpha-pyrrolidinophenone (PPP) derivatives that seem especially prone to over-use and dependence.

Stimulant combinations and 'tamers' (MDPV-focused):

IME, if you end up choosing the wrong 'tamer' or 'accompaniment' to MDPV, you're worse off than if you had used none at all. Many substances mix very poorly with MDPV, even drugs that seem like they should go well with it. An example is kratom -- it seems like it might go well, but kratom has a stimulating effect, as well as a depressant effect, and most of the time it becomes a jagged, nasty edge in combination with MDPV that ruins both substances.

BTW, I'm talking "serious" accompaniments here, not ginkgo or valerian root. Most of those are OK, despite the fact that they tend to have weak (more placebo than reality) effects.

Even in the short term, there are only a few worthy/reasonable 'tamer's that go well with PV. It's pretty much down to just benzos, barbs, opiates or light drinking... take your pick.

And IMO, in the long term... none of these are any good. None of them.

The likelihood with benzos is that you'll end up developing a benzo addiction/withdrawal issue that is much more serious than the issues you had with MDPV that you were trying to tame.

Barbiturates are a similar case, are not generally easy to source and are not much better than alcohol.

With opiates, the long-term possibility is that you will end up dead. No kidding -- there is no more dangerous a drug combination in existence than opiates and stimulants. What generally happens is that the stimulant wears off before the opiate does, and suddenly you have five times the respiratory depression you had before. Off to dreamland, permanently. This happens not only regularly on the streets, but regularly and notably *on the Bluelight forums* as well -- have a close look at the obituaries/memories threads. It's that common. Please, just don't go there.

Drinking beer lightly is perhaps the most reasonable and worthwhile MDPV combination/'tamer'. But it does not work well, since alcohol in moderation acts more as a stimulant than a depressant. In higher amounts, it is not only a crude and largely-ineffective depressant, but adds an unpleasant drag to the high and accomplishes little. Drinking hard alcohol heavily in combination with strong stimulants is as dangerous as using opiates with them -- highly impaired judgment in combination with such drugs can and does kill people.

From here, none of these solutions are any good long-term

IMO/IME -- MDPV is best/most safely used alone. Despite how it feels in the short run. Particularly given that one tends to do the accompanying/taming drug and just increase their intake of PV to overcome the effects and get a similar high.

No one asked, but if anyone did -- I'd recommend they never mix anything stronger than weak tea with MDPV, except in the occasional/rare case. Every single time I have, I've regretted it, particularly when I've looked down the road to see what happens if I did it regularly.

Peace...


EDITS/UPDATES
2:10PST, 29APR11 -- added the section 'Stimulant combinations and tamers'.
2:30PST, 29APR11 -- Edited the section several times.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think as you have designed this as a primer for beginners I'm going to try this in Basic Drug Discussion. BDD mods if I chose wrongly feel free to send it back to homeless and I'll make another stab at finding a place for it.

Homeless------------------------------------>Basic Drug Discussion
 
Enki, I like where this is going, I think we can at least keep it here for now... :)

Dedbeet, I merged your edits/update time post with your original post, I'm going to shoot you a PM in a few because I think you've got a good idea here.
 
Enki, I like where this is going, I think we can at least keep it here for now... :)

Dedbeet, I merged your edits/update time post with your original post, I'm going to shoot you a PM in a few because I think you've got a good idea here.
Thanks, N_T... this is basically a project here while I'm playing with PV ;)... glad you like where it's headed. Would appreciate any suggested additions, corrections or changes as well.

Peace...
 
Absolutely. There is, sadly, very little formal research on the topic, so we need to organize personal reports as well as we can.

I would be interested to see if somebody had compiled a (pure) MDPV/other RC stimulant dosage chart, or tentative dosage chart. Dedbeet, how do you measure your doses?
 
^That's a good idea, amapola. I'm going to move it over there, Dedbeet, feel free to PM me with any questions.
 
glad to see this. i have never tried any RC-i am an old school funky junkie and the horror stories i read about RCs just break my heart. good for you dedbeat. we need an informative guide to such chemicals that ppl are just rushing into w/o knowing anything about what they are putting in their bodies. like i said-i have no experience personally,but i have done some research to try and understand all these RC(esp the speed),so anything i can do to help just let me know. I am a damn good researcher-if i do say self.
good stuff,guys.
keep it up.

much peace and love.........................skillz<3
 
I have been using MDPV for a few months now, on and off. I want to say most everthying you have here is spot on(actually zero complaints on the guide). I'd like to add, from personal experience on multiple occasions that, weed exponentionaly adds to the comedown. It makes me feel so much worse, I really don't know how better to describe it than it makes me want to die.
Also, some synthetics cannabinoids (not sure which ones) give me a racing heartbeat and also. Makes me feel like i am going to die.

Avoid, the mixtures if your not sure on affects.
btw my ROA is a lightbulb vape. gotta be very careful though.
 
if you wake up in a pink bra and panties next to a dead goat and your peepee is sore....prolly need to take a break and regroup...poor billly goat.....silly tweeker what ya doin?
 
Thanks for putting this together, man - never tried any RC stimulants, largely because of the horror stories attached to them, but would kind of like to give MDPV a shot for curiosity's sake, and this is a great guide. I'm generally pretty apprehensive about RCs, but provided you do some research and aren't stupid about it, you can usually avoid screwing yourself over.
 
I got so strung out from MDPV last night. I've been pretty good about keeping my daily doses >20mg, but still, shit is strong. I ended taking about 10 shots of tequila, 15mg bump of K, 35mg of hydrocodone and some weed brownies. On top of the MDPV. I'd never felt so completely awake and utterly intoxicated at the same time. I'm glad I take good care of myself so the worst of it was throwing up once this morning and then washing it away with some lovely kombucha....but fuck. Even MDMA doesn't make me that much of a fiend.


I do like MDPV though. As long as you realize there really isn't much intense euphoria to be had with MDPV, you can control yourself from wanting to eat your whole stash. Really is nice when you just need to be alert and on top of things for your day. Also found the other day it makes me REALLY enjoy the physical act of writing, I was crossing every single 7 so intently, making them all so sexy. Sexy sevens. Oh yeah.


oh and the guy above me said something about MDPV and weed not mixing great together. I'd say this is true for me as well. It just makes the weed high so edgy, like you thought you were finally out of tachycardia forest then you take a hit and it's back on the merry go round for 3 more hours.


In reference to doses....don't do more than 30-40mg if you want to have ANY chance of sleeping, and even then it will be difficult. 10mg is a bit too much for me, I like to take closer to 5 then perhaps 5 an hour later and leave it at that. Tolerance builds insanely fast but drops just as quickly. One day of abstinence seems to bring back all the positive effects, I even experience a little empathy with this RC.
 
integration on a daily basis

Hello there,

I'm a regular mdpv user, meaning daily. My usual day starts at 8am, where I push myself hard to go to work, drink several coffees. Usually stay off the powder. After 9 hours of work, I go home, do several lines 2, 3 in about an hour to get "on level". Then I start doing my second job, which is video producer. I cut, render and even meet up with clients totally on plateu. This usually works aslong as we are drinking red wine or stronger stuff. My Fav is fruitjuice with gin. After 10:30pm I always stop doing lines and concentrate on drinking and working until I grow tired. A big shot of Jägermeister -around 20cl- always is a good entry into bed. Usually I'm out pretty soon.
For weekends, when there is REALLY much work to do, drinking won't help, cause you can't concentrate. So I use phenazepam, very cheap, legal, VERY little doses! You take to much, you may be out up to 3 days, experiencing ataraxia and shit. So, reallly little doses! Phenazepam is legal and very long lasting, like 60 hours halftime, so one hit should cover a whole weekend. Redosing is definetly not recommended. Altough it's fun like hell, especially when doing more lines, there always is a point where even experienced users are loosing it. No Good! Sweating, Psychosis, Paranoia and no breath. Just don't do it......

I know that it's wrong doing this to my body, but I'm in this situation where I have to work during days and there is a deadline coming up and I won't compromise on the video I do. All in all it's just a run against time. So that's my thing. Just wanted to share.
btw this is "working" now for like 4 weeks. But I feel getting weaker, especially getting up in the morning has become a torture. Regards.....
 
Top