Kratom addiction - experiences

[kratomguy]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to Bluelight in the sense of having just registered, but have been actively following -- and drawing countless support -- from these threads for many months.

I gave up kratom (cold turkey) three days ago, and have been obsessively following the threads on Bluelight since, taking any advice that was offered, and learning what to expect in the coming days and weeks (apparently a few more days of physical symptoms followed by - perhaps - some lingering anxiety and depression).

The reason I started this thread wasn't to bemoan my present withdrawal though, which isn't exactly pretty, but to follow up on something which I just saw posted in another thread here (which I can't find in the history due to browsing in Chrome's detective mode!) about how deceiving kratom is.

One of the feelings that's really come to the surface recently, during the worst of the withdrawal, is how unfair, inaccurate, and misleading the promotion of kratom on the internet is.

As much as I blame myself for having started with this stuff, I think there needs to be a greater effort on the part of those who have gone through the horror of kratom addiction, and subsequent withdrawal, to highlight just how untrue the fallacy of kratom being an 'innocuous' or harmless substance really is.

I guess I'm kind of direction-less right now (maybe better described as 'rambling'), but if anyone else would like to chime in on their negative experiences with kratom I think that would be one more small step in dispelling the myth that kratom is a harmless legal high, or stimulant.

Sure, if you use it once in a while it's OK, but the scope for addiction is far more real than -- IMO -- even ecstacy, and certainly more so than weed, and the withdrawal far worse.

It has its uses for recovering opium addicts and for pain management, but the word has to be put out there that kratom for recreational use is not entirely safe, is very addictive, emotionally numbing, reduces quality of life (when abused), and has a very nasty withdrawal depending on how long it's used for.

What I see as the main myths misleading people into starting with kratom are that:

a / Kratom is not addictive (my .o2: kratom becomes very addictive, even with fairly moderate (i.e few times weekly) consumption. Extracts and tinctures are more addictive than leaf.

b / Kratom has mild withdrawals, even after protracted periods of heavy use. Some websites even compare it to a caffeine withdrawal from coffee consumption (my .02: this is perhaps the most misleading claim of all. If a coffee withdrawal causes insomnia, depression, anxiety, RLS, etc, then yes, but this certainly isn't the case!).

c / Kratom is a stimulant, a lifter, helps with depression and anxiety (my .02: initially so, and perhaps pharmacologically so, particularly with depression (kratom is definitely an SSRI), but the habitual use leads to a definite decrease in quality of life. I personally developed a form of moderate OCD from excessive energy, was unable to focus (and hence study). I had boundless energy but got nothing achieved..

 

[panic in paradise]

this is the idea..;-D

ill poke around and see if this could maybe have a place, in an orderly educational form, as a reference in TDS or maybe in the "Harm Reduction" sub-forum here at BL.

 

[kratomguy]

Thanks, moderator.

Apologies if that came across as disjointed or just rambling.

My goal is just to highlight the potential dangers of kratom in the hope that somebody thinking of taking kratom will plug 'kratom addiction' into google, come across this thread, and think twice before making the mistake I did! I think a lot of former kratom users feel this way!

 

[panic in paradise]

no apologies needed, im only speaking of the future condition of the thread, but, "panic" "PiP" etc. can moderate that stuff, as well as my cohorts...


at least think "just say know"...

 

[Peacephrog1972]

your going t plug kratom?

sounds unpleasant!

 

[herbavore]

^ I believe he using the verb to plug differently

My goal is just to highlight the potential dangers of kratom in the hope that somebody thinking of taking kratom will plug 'kratom addiction' into google, come across this thread, and think twice before making the mistake I did! I think a lot of former kratom users feel this way!

 

[CfZrx]

I have ended up using kratom to replace extra morphine (and occasional BTH, dilaudid etc...) i was taking on top of my actual tiny morphine script for pain. I hope I can avoid chipping, but I already did once. I didn't let it get me down though, I'm back to the kratom, and hopefully I can cut down my use of it either through willpower, or because I convince my doctor to up my dose of morphine (been on 45 mg daily for over a year). Anybody else goin through this type of thing? ...

 

[Xorkoth]

I started using kratom back before it was widely known at all, in 2003; I had one of the first reports posted on Erowid about it. The only information out there was that it's non-addictive, or like you said, equal to caffeine addiction (which is utter bullshit, caffeine is a piddling addiction to get past, you get a headache for a day or two and low energy and that's it). So I had no reservations about using it. Kratom is an opiate, or technically it's not but it hits the opiate receptors including the Mu receptor so it causes very similar withdrawal symptoms. And it also hits other receptor groups that opiates do not hit so it causes downregulation in other areas with regular use.

I LOVED kratom immediately. I had tried other opiates but never really got into them or cared for them too much but to me kratom was a miracle drug. I was just using it because it made me feel good but it REALLY made me feel good, a very deceptively benign and natural feeling of great euphoria and pleasure. I started using it daily rather quickly after the first few times, when I ordered a pound of leaf (they only had whole leaf back then). I used it daily, even twice daily a lot of days, for a month or two, and then my shipment was delayed for 4 days. I ran out and woke up the next morning feeling absolutely terrible. I had crippling anxiety and a feeling of crawling out of my skin, terrible restlessness, and depression. I skipped classes that day (I was in college then) and realized it was the kratom that was the culprit when all I could think about was when my shipment would arrive. I was forced to just tough it out those 4 days, and on the morning of the 5th day I felt pretty much normal. And then my shipment arrived, and I told myself I would be responsible this time and immediately brewed up a dose (with whole leaf you have to make tea in the traditional way which was a pretty fun ritual). I started reading about it and found out that in indonesia and other places where it's from, there are a lot of long-term kratom addicts, which was of course not disclosed by the kratom vendor.

I continued using it, almost immediately daily again. I was in total denial about myself, I didn't even consider I was already an addict, I figured I liked it and I could just deal with a few days of discomfort again when I wanted to stop. Well, fast-forward 6 years and I was still on it. By then I had fully realized my situation. I tried to quit many times and every time I did and relapsed, the withdrawal got worse. I also occasionally got into other opiates and experienced withdrawals from heroin and oxycodone as well in that time. It got to the point where kratom withdrawal was worse for me than either of those other 2 opiates, because the restlessness is far worse. It was so bad it wasn't just restless legs, it was restless arms and even restless body. I'd lay awake all night for 5 nights in a row, thrashing my body relentlessly or punching my legs as hard as possible until they were numb just to get 30 seconds of relief from the need to thrash. Then, delirious with sleep deprivation, I'd finally pass out and feel a little better but it would go on for a few more days. I would generally relapse towards the end of that because the depression would just get to me even though the physical symptoms were mostly over.

Eventually I started using poppy seed tea to try to get off kratom because I just couldn't do it. I used it every other day, 3 times, because it would provide relief for 2 days... and it also gave me my favorite opiate highs I've ever felt. I actually did bypass my kratom withdrawal the first time I did this, those 3 times separated by 2 days each. I stayed off opiates for a couple of days after and felt fine, but then my addict brain convinced me to try poppy tea again "every so often" because I liked it even more than kratom. I immediately started doing it every other day, which turned into every day, and even before it got to every day, I was addicted to poppy tea (which is basically oral opium, or laudanum). I endured 3 years of really intense addiction to poppy tea, which I got into after 7 years of kratom addiction, for a total of 10 years addicted to opiates. At the end of 2013 I was so crushed and depressed and out of sorts that I wanted to die. And it all started with kratom.

Finally in April this year I took ibogaine and ever since then I have been free of opiates and I'm back to my old, happy, energetic self.

It's worth noting that I was dosing kratom 3-5 times a day for the second half of those 7 years so I was using a LOT of it... still, it's certainly addictive, it's an opiate, don't lie to yourself about that.