Open Discussion Stamp Thread in the North & South American Social & Drug Discussion Section

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Ok what if it's a bag of 50 50? The point I'm making is you can't act like ex dealers are better people and less likely to fuck you then heroin dealers because it's simply not true.

And you say "I doubt it happens often." it's the same way with stamps my man.
 
I agree, the stamp thread should be allowed... for the sake of harm reduction

using the Pill Reports argument is cheap, comparing apples to oranges, and hypocritical
 
Ok what if it's a bag of 50 50? The point I'm making is you can't act like ex dealers are better people and less likely to fuck you then heroin dealers because it's simply not true.

And you say "I doubt it happens often." it's the same way with stamps my man.

The issue with things like this is that the most money is made with repeat business.

You can go out of your way to fuck over a hundred people, and as long as those hundred people are smart enough, you won't do business with each person but only once.

It pays to do business well, without fucking people over, so that you can repeat business 100 times over with 100 people.

One typically has to put a lot of effort into fucking someone over, and once it's done, there's no going back to re-fuck someone over a second time.

It really wouldn't pay to sell someone 100 tablets, half of which are legitimate. People who go about fucking others over, are already greedy; they wouldn't do this; they would either try to fuck you over as hard as possible, or not at all.

Most people who do this sort of thing, either go all out, or wouldn't bother doing it at all.

Others would do repeat business and keep it consistent, until you want to buy in bulk instead of dimebags; then they would fuck you over. That's a different scenario, but needless to say, it happens even less often.

Do tell though, how many people have reported buying 100 tablets of X, only half of which were legitimate? I don't recall hearing anything along these lines. People may buy 100 bunk tablets, or 100 good tablets, but anything in the middle (a mix of good and bad), IMO, is highly unlikely.
 
I guess you never heard of a skittle bag

Nope, I sure haven't.

To be honest, I'm not sure how "intelligent" users are for various drugs.... but I know that my dope dealer had an incentive to reimburse users if his product was bunk.

In short, there are tons and tons of people selling heroin in certain areas. In these areas, if someone is unreliable or has an unreliable product, people 9 times out of 10, will not bother confronting the dealer, they'll just find a new dealer.

So if a heroin dealer is not a heroin user (which is common), and relies on the people he goes to for a quality product, this becomes a problem. If he is ripped off, or if he entrusts his business with another person who takes care of the street level business - only to have such a person start to rip off their customers, what happens is that his overall profit for his business instantly declines.

Within a day, or a week, the people who get 1 day's worth to 1 week's worth at a time, will go to someone else. They will find a new dealer, and settle on someone more reliable, or someone with a more reliable product.

I however, confronted the dealer every time it wasn't as good as before by a considerable amount (if I typically went through 1 gram in 4 to 5 days, and all of the sudden the newest gram I got was gone in 1 or 2 days, obviously there is a problem here, either the quality or quantity is lacking), and my dealer would make up for the difference and then some, every time.

Some people are amazed by this when I tell them. However, it seems reasonable to me. There are simply way too many dealers to put up with bad product.
 
The issue with things like this is that the most money is made with repeat business.

So are you saying that heroin dealers make most of their money off first time customers? I would bet 90%, if not more like 95%, of most dope dealers business is repeat business. And the difference between it and ex is that usually those same repeat customers come every single day. I think most people would be more prone to fuck somebody over they see once in a while then somebody they see every day, sometimes multiple times a day.

It really wouldn't pay to sell someone 100 tablets, half of which are legitimate. People who go about fucking others over, are already greedy; they wouldn't do this; they would either try to fuck you over as hard as possible, or not at all.

I don't see how you can make such a broad statement like this and act like it's a fact, how would it not pay? You're still giving someone half bunk shit, maybe it'd be better for you if you just ripped 'em for the whole 100, but remember dude wanted to test some pills so you had to make sure he had a good chance of gettin a legit one.

Most people who do this sort of thing, either go all out, or wouldn't bother doing it at all.
Again how can you make such a broad statement, do you know every drug dealer in the world? I musta met a a lot more shady people in my day then you have because it's called "luring them in" People are always sketched out at first, so you lure them in with some real shit, then burn em for as much as you can. And that can happen with any drug.


Do tell though, how many people have reported buying 100 tablets of X, only half of which were legitimate? I don't recall hearing anything along these lines. People may buy 100 bunk tablets, or 100 good tablets, but anything in the middle (a mix of good and bad), IMO, is highly unlikely.
Aw ok, I didn't realize since me or you never heard a report about it that it's never happened. ;) I mean come on, me, Unbreakable, and Tommyboy all said that we've never seen stamps vary that much from the reports we read on here but everyone else keeps insisting it's somehow the norm to copy peoples stamp and fill it with bullshit. Like I said before, obviously the stamp thread was pretty reliable or it never would of got to 3,000 posts. Take some time and read thru it and you consistently see people rating the same bags the same ratings give or take 1 point usually.

Another thing is with stamp names a lot of times they're specific to a certain block or hood, so not only do you need the glassines and rubber stamp, you have to take over someones block. I think it'd be easier to buy a pill press then win a turf battle.


I however, confronted the dealer every time it wasn't as good as before by a considerable amount (if I typically went through 1 gram in 4 to 5 days, and all of the sudden the newest gram I got was gone in 1 or 2 days, obviously there is a problem here, either the quality or quantity is lacking), and my dealer would make up for the difference and then some, every time.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm willin to bet you was buyin off a whiteboy in the suburbs and payin a premium. Of course dude can reimburse you when he's makin what I like to call "suburban profits", sorry if I'm wrong. The thing like I said before stamp bags are obsurdly cheap(Like as cheap as an O.E. 800 40oz, if not cheaper) when you're buying 10 bricks at a time or something, it's simply more economical to put it out how you got it and get all the repeat biz and sell the 10 bricks in 2 days then it is to dump em all out and fill em with bullshit and hope it don't take you a year to sell 10 bricks.
 
I can tell this is a very heart felt issue for a lot of members both ways. As a mod here I wanted to thank you all for the fact a passionate and long running thread has stayed so civil.

I think both sides would agree stamps are potentially indicative but should never be relied upon entirely. One camp would utilize them to spite their being potentially misleading as some indicator is better than completely blind. The other finds the possible gross information and deaths or damage that would likely occur as a result wholly unacceptable. Presumably good stamp data saves lives at times also.

Its really up to forum mods but I'm personally wondering if good and frequent disclaimers and explanations about the risks of relying on stamps couldn't be a third way. However, I've modded several forums and know that it isn't realistic to think that threads aren't going to end up running well ahead of moderation at times.

I see both sides of this and again want to thank everyone for keeping this so civil. :)
 
I haven't read through all of this but I think I'm sold that the stamp thread is as good as pillreports. There are some things I read though that were interesting to me. Here's just one example:
It seems a lot of people are pulling for this thread in the name of harm reduction but then we have statements like this
People expecting a rush will never do a test shot

A test shot would be a much more reliable test than some text on the internet. I don't know if it's worth dealing with the potential problems of the thread when the user is generally not even going to take the proper steps first.

For the record I've never done heroin let alone seen a stamp bag.
 
^The thing is, what he said is very true. Taking a small dose of an opiate first will usually prevent any kind of rush, which for many users is the primary reason for using in the first place... This may seem like logical HR practice but it is not really practical. Maybe if the user can prepare for their addiction days ahead, they can test it out and not worry about getting sick, but how many addicts truly live that life?
 
Enki said:
I can tell this is a very heart felt issue for a lot of members both ways. As a mod here I wanted to thank you all for the fact a passionate and long running thread has stayed so civil.

I think both sides would agree stamps are potentially indicative but should never be relied upon entirely. One camp would utilize them to spite their being potentially misleading as some indicator is better than completely blind. The other finds the possible gross information and deaths or damage that would likely occur as a result wholly unacceptable. Presumably good stamp data saves lives at times also.

We could change the title to "Why do all people who want the stamp thread have sticks up their ass?" if you're a little bored Enki ;)

A very nice summation of the two sides of the argument though and I like how you didn't get bogged down in the specific details as it really is a much more fundamental argument than how a gang could copy a stamp or a random situation where a user might rely on the site. Since there is a complete lack of concrete statistical information on how often stamp bags are not going to match the site and on how having the site will influence users' behaviour, we really are arguing more about core beliefs on what HR should be more than anything else.

I'd love to agree with you Enki and think that a disclaimer would solve all our problems, but while it might help us sleep better at night it would likely have little effect on how the site is used. I honestly still can't believe I'm on the side of preventing the spread of information to protect people who aren't smart enough to use it safely. :\

Quantifying harm reduction is a bitch.
 
^The thing is, what he said is very true. Taking a small dose of an opiate first will usually prevent any kind of rush, which for many users is the primary reason for using in the first place... This may seem like logical HR practice but it is not really practical. Maybe if the user can prepare for their addiction days ahead, they can test it out and not worry about getting sick, but how many addicts truly live that life?

I understand and agree. I'm just saying I think it's interesting that there are these cries of "Harm Reduction" when the user admits that they wouldn't consider taking real steps to reduce harm.
 
I 'almost' overdosed because of inconsistent stamp quality of the same stamp from the same batch like 5 times. By definition every time was an overdose but meh... Since i woke back up and didn't get narcan someone in here will have nothing better to do than call me a bitch since i didn't "REALLY" overdose, but being unconscious with people smacking you and then waking back up a few minutes later not remember anything counts in my opinion. 8)

Also a friend of mine overdosed when the stamps were better than they were supposed to be like a week or two ago. No he's in the hospital/rehab or whatever and 3 other friends of mine who were there are in jail.



All this said, stamp thread is legit. One stupid person who relies on some review over the internet for stamp then OD's does NOT outweigh the number of people who will choose not to use a bag because of a review about a hot shot/bad cut, or choose to do half the usual dose because of a review.


And at the stuff captain heroin was saying about dealers, he's right on in my opinion. If you buy heroin and crack or whatever from any sort of organized drug dealer in the ghetto, you will get much better service than you imagined. I'm not talking about some rogue free agent dealer not affiliated with any 'organizations' because he has no incentive to not fuck you over, but when you go to a block and everyone out is all from the same gang or whatever, they all got the block on lockdown with lookouts and shit, and the best part is they are all fighting over eachother for you (the custy). When i say fighting, i mean going out of their way to hook you up. It's the summer and your stamps are all sticky from the humidity and sweat or whatever. Sucks right? Happens every year right? Well I've had over 20-30 different heroin dealers and not one of them wouldn't replace and un usable bag. Not one of them wouldn't replace a missing bag from the brick. Not one of them ever ripped me off knowlingly, and not one of them ever accidentally fucked me over without FULLY reimbursing me. Not one of them was ever mean or unfriendly in any way. should i go on?

I don't know, maybe other people buy heroin from other heroin users and thats why they bitch about getting ripped off? Because all i know is where im from in north Jersey if you wanna go to the hood and buy some heroin, You have to be a fucking idiot to get ripped off. It's not hard to spot a shady dealer before you even stop the car. I've even had dealers replace bags for no other reason than they were lower quality than usual but still heroin and nothing else wrong with them.

(again, everything in this post is "in my experience" so just because you suck at finding good dealers doesn't mean i need you to try and prove me wrong***)

In my opinion white dealers and people dealing anything besides heroin are MANY times more likely to rip you off than the smart black dealers in the hood who know how to make money and don't get high themselves.



This post is too long so ima stop typing now

tl;dr i don't know wtf people are doing wrong but I've never had a shitty heroin dealer.

Back on topic, stamp thread good outweighs stamp thread bad. Someone who happens to OD after reading the stamp thread is careless, and most likely would have ODed anyway at some point. But the people are read it and aren't careless (which is what like 90+% of bluelight since most seem way more intelligent than the average street user) have a decent chance of avoiding stamps because of information they got.
 
Wooooooow, and just when we were praised for civility.....quit kissing ass, amapola ;)

Look, the reason I, personally, have "a stick up my ass" is because of have had my life, and some of my friends' lives saved by the knowledge gained from stamp ratings forums. Conversely, I and a few of my friends almost died several times each when we didn't have the information. So for me, it's a direct correlation, no question.

I really don't think that a lot of people arguing against the stamp thread being created have ever done, or at least, only occasionally do dope because they would understand why it's so important.

I'm fine with a disclaimer and warnings and rules. I encourage mods to do that; it's a great idea!

Look, I don't even do bags anymore. I've been clean for a while and have no need for the thread, but it has literally saved my life a few times so of course so of course i'm going to support it. At the least, if you aren't going to start one, please don't say that it's for harm reduction's sake :(
 
@ caseface99 Thank you, whole post was very well said and true. You've clearly done dope.

@captainheroin and caseface 99 You're both right. I always confronted dealers and only went to black, non-users and had them engaged in price wars daily for my business. One invited me in his house to play with his new pitbull puppy:). Point is, they want your business and have NO reason to rip you off. In fact, one of my good guys tracked down and got a refund from some guy that ripped me off once.

@amapola We need to quit saying we don't know the correlation between stamp name and quality because on your own site, you have thousands of archived ratings that differ nominally from each other and several other sites have the same. Yes, we don't know the exact dope purity content and volume for every street bag, but this is better than nothing. Yes, they are only people's experiential ratings, but this is the only realistic way to obtain and propagate that information.

Please, please, please read your own archives and see how the system works and how consistent it is. At the very least, please be honest: do you or any of the mods against this thread actually use dope consistently?
 
I don't use heroin anymore either and it makes no difference anyway because i don't live in stamp country anymore - But having been a heroin addict from the area most effected by the stamp thread i would be genuinely surprised if any of the opponents to the thread were fiends from that area.


If it's a genuine liability issue for Bluelight or something like that, that's the only valid argument i can think of. So if not... Idk.
 
Were I in a mod in a forum that was considering having a stamp thread and I was made aware of how often stamp threads have turned into overt sourcing I would oppose it. As I've read this thread and done some independent research I've discovered too many fatalities and big problems caused by people relying on stamps as indicators.

Agreed amapola and others, the more I've thought about the more I've realized a disclaimer and frequent warnings and qualifications are unlikely to get through to the people who need to hear them the most.
 
Have you found any evidence to the contrary? Could you share with the group please, Enki?

If you're only worry is liability for people getting hurt, a well written disclaimer should provide more than enough cover but I really think the threads helps people not get hurt.

Sourcing is a good point, but again, If it's explicitly forbidden with harsh consequences, I imagine that would take care of the problem. You probably have examples that are contrary to this and I admit, I don't know anything about the sourcing problem. I just feel (and personally wouldn't) source if you explicitly told posters not to...
 
If you're only worry is liability for people getting hurt, a well written disclaimer should provide more than enough cover but I really think the threads helps people not get hurt.
I guarantee you legal liability is not even a remote worry compared to moral liability.
 
So are you saying that heroin dealers make most of their money off first time customers?
No, of course not, how could you misunderstand what I was trying to say?

For some dealers, they only exclusively deal with repeat business, and they don't want people they don't know on an every-day type basis to be customers.

I obviously agree with what you said there.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm willin to bet you was buyin off a whiteboy in the suburbs and payin a premium. Of course dude can reimburse you when he's makin what I like to call "suburban profits", sorry if I'm wrong. The thing like I said before stamp bags are obsurdly cheap(Like as cheap as an O.E. 800 40oz, if not cheaper) when you're buying 10 bricks at a time or something, it's simply more economical to put it out how you got it and get all the repeat biz and sell the 10 bricks in 2 days then it is to dump em all out and fill em with bullshit and hope it don't take you a year to sell 10 bricks.

No, I have never bought heroin from white people. I regularly drove into what would be labeled "the projects" in my city. You couldn't sell heroin as a white person here, since it is a predominantly black neighborhood. As I said (probably in a different post), sometimes my dealer would have other people take over the street level sales, but I always bought from black people.

I know I wasn't paying a premium; I have gone to other dealers when my dealer was out, at very rare occasions, and I paid the same amount of money. The quality can vary but the price is always the same.

For the record I've never done heroin let alone seen a stamp bag.

If you live in California I doubt you would ever see a stamp bag. There are other ways heroin is sold though, in foil, plastic bags (tiny ziploc type ones, or ones that just are tied off in microscopic knots - the latter is what's available 99% of the time where I live), and other ways that you would package black tar heroin (balloons, etc).

I 'almost' overdosed because of inconsistent stamp quality of the same stamp from the same batch like 5 times. By definition every time was an overdose but meh... Since i woke back up and didn't get narcan someone in here will have nothing better to do than call me a bitch since i didn't "REALLY" overdose, but being unconscious with people smacking you and then waking back up a few minutes later not remember anything counts in my opinion. 8)

There are life threatening and non-life threatening overdoses. You can just call it a non-life threatening overdose. :)

(again, everything in this post is "in my experience" so just because you suck at finding good dealers doesn't mean i need you to try and prove me wrong***)
Well, in northern Jersey, you probably have the highest proportion of heroin dealers to the overall population. Or, at the least, the highest proportion of heroin dealers to heroin users.

In other cities, you have to be on the look out for a heroin dealer, and you have to really try to find them. You could drive to the "projects" and try to scope one out but that wouldn't be easy as compared to where you are from, where it seems as easy as ordering fast food.

Look, the reason I, personally, have "a stick up my ass"

This is a statement that was made about Other Drugs moderators and any moderators in general, no one meant to say this about you.

See this thread to learn more.

At the least, if you aren't going to start one, please don't say that it's for harm reduction's sake :(

We have a thread for dangerous stamps, and you have to message a Drug Culture moderator to have your "dangerous stamp" added in.

This is harm reduction based.

Some people might say "well there are safe stamps, and non-safe stamps, surely all safe stamps are not 100% diacetylmorphine, therefore the old-idea of a "stamp thread" was more or less an indirect sourcing thread, and the new one (linked here) is a harm-reduction based thread".

I am just going to point that out, and I am not trying to say that I believe this to be true, but that others might point that out.

I don't use heroin anymore either and it makes no difference anyway because i don't live in stamp country anymore - But having been a heroin addict from the area most effected by the stamp thread i would be genuinely surprised if any of the opponents to the thread were fiends from that area.


If it's a genuine liability issue for Bluelight or something like that, that's the only valid argument i can think of. So if not... Idk.

Should we start a "Balloons Thread" for people who score black tar heroin in balloons?

Needless to say there are many other ways heroin is packaged and sold, I listed a few above, and I don't think it would be practical to have a thread for each type.

The way that heroin is predominantly packaged and sold is obviously a regional thing, and this would probably better belong in regional forums than Drug Culture, if it was allowed at all. You yourself pointed out the specific area most effected by the presence or lack thereof of a stamps thread.
 
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I quit.

If anyone can find a conclusive and reputable link between stamp purity <100% and sourcing being directly proportionate, i will fully concede my arguments.

I would get nothing from this thread either way, but I've said what I needed to say with several years experience shooting dope.

My answer, stamp thread saved my life a few times, maybe it would mercilessly kill others, but it saved me
 
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