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The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine Thread - The 3rd Dose

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I can't imagine enjoying music at anything above 40mg, otherwise it's quite nice.

okay! nice to know im not alone. still curious if anyone does enjoy music when on a high dose of this or ket?

i had ~40 mg 2 hours ago. i have experienced a very mild high-pass filter effect reminiscent of before but bass and rhythm appreciation were not reduced to a significant extent. However, about 15 minutes ago when i was thinking how lovely mxe is at a lower dose my right ear suddenly went 'numb' (for lack of a better word) and i began to experience a little of this bass killing effect in the right ear only.

it's a little worrisome but also fascinating. I'm very curious what causes this effect. I suspect it to be cortical in origin (ie an effect of NMDA receptor excitation) because nitrous produces a somewhat similar effect for me. For all we know, however, it could be due to an interaction at the brainstem or VIII nerve! The acute nature of the effect leads one to suspect that it is central in origin but opiates can have a similarly acute effect on hearing and are also known to be permanently toxic to the cochlea. additionally someone posted here today about the possibility of mxe having an interaction with oxygen in the bloodstream... if oxygen or any other gas was suddenly in high demand it might get pulled from the middle ear causing the tympanic membrane to retract and stiffen which would dampen low frequency sounds. i doubt its that buts a fascinating concept nonetheless.


i actually have free access to a tympanometer and a DPOAE machine so hopefully one day i can get a friend to run those on me while i'm on a high dose and we will be able to at the very least rule out the middle ear hypothesis. watch this space!
 
On what seemed to be a "higher" dose, music was completely of the GODS lol. Listening to some albums I hold close to my heart from start to finish laying in my bed, total darkness. I felt like I had some soul connection to the songwriter with every note, every verse. So surreally blissful.
 
It isn't gonna be anywhere near as soluble in alcohol as it is in water. But it will go 100mg/ml with ease in water, 200mg/ml and then precipitate upon cooling. You might get 10mg/ml or 20mg/ml in EtOH. Let us know.

But why alcohol?

for long-term absorption mainly, alcohol is anti-bacterial. also, i suspect that alcohol will aid in oral absorption.
 
On what seemed to be a "higher" dose, music was completely of the GODS lol. Listening to some albums I hold close to my heart from start to finish laying in my bed, total darkness. I felt like I had some soul connection to the songwriter with every note, every verse. So surreally blissful.


It really is magic to listen to some good music in total darkness with good headphones on MXE. It's by far my favourite way to spend MXE time. You do feel like you touch the divine. Lovely!

On another note, I have combined cannabis a couple of times with high dose MXE and it feels a lot to me like salvia. I feel like Im being pushed around,body pulsing, hard to see, dysphoria etc. It's an experience, but not a nice one.
 
Watching fear and loathing makes me actually feel a little more fucked, its really good never watched it before a few days ago as well!
 
HEAVENLY EXPERIENCE:

MXE+ BARAKA

Baraka is a movie without words, only music landscapes, it totally blowed my mind, i felt like a story was counted, and my mind travelled around the globe, many meditation involved**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYZ8RWqqicQ

Or, even more amazing, and with an entire mystical wordless "agenda" involving Hopi Indian prophesies and the most amazing time lapse set to also music by Philip Glass, Koyaanisquatsi
would surely be utterly amazing on this substance, probably way more incredible than on lsd.

Might be somewhat disturbing though... but in a good way =D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi

excerpts:

Koyaanisqatsi (English pronunciation: /ˈkɔɪ.ɑːnɪsˈkɑːtsiː/ KOY-ah-nis-KAHT-see), also known as Koyaanisqatsi: Life out of Balance, is a 1982 film directed by Godfrey Reggio with music composed by Philip Glass and cinematography by Ron Fricke.

The film consists primarily of slow motion and time-lapse stock footage of cities and many natural landscapes across the United States. The visual tone poem contains neither dialogue nor a vocalized narration: its tone is set by the juxtaposition of images and music. Reggio explains the lack of dialogue by stating "it's not for lack of love of the language that these films have no words. It's because, from my point of view, our language is in a state of vast humiliation. It no longer describes the world in which we live."[6] In the Hopi language, the word Koyaanisqatsi means "crazy life, life in turmoil, life out of balance, life disintegrating, a state of life that calls for another way of living".[7] The film is the first in the Qatsi trilogy of films: it is followed by Powaqqatsi (1988) and Naqoyqatsi (2002). The trilogy depicts different aspects of the relationship between humans, nature, and technology. Koyaanisqatsi is the best known of the trilogy and is considered a cult film. However, because of copyright issues, the film was out of print for most of the 1990s

...

The film contains several cinematic sequences accompanied by recurring musical themes. The chapters on the Koyaanisqatsi DVD are separated and named by the titles of the musical sections. The first image in the film is of a Fremont pictogram located in The Great Gallery of Horseshoe Canyon, part of Canyonlands National Park, Utah. The section shown depicts several tall darkly-shadowed figures standing near a taller figure adorned with a crown. The next image is a close-up of the Saturn V rocket from the Apollo 12[citation needed] mission during liftoff. The film fades into a shot of a desolate desert landscape ("Organic"). The large skylight arch depicted a few scenes later is a formation called Paul Bunyan's Potty in the Needles District of Canyonlands. From there, it progresses to footage of various natural environmental phenomena such as waves and clouds.

...

"Microchips", scored with edgy, sharp musical tones, juxtaposes pictures of microchips and satellite photography of metropolitan cities, making a comparison between their layouts. "Prophecies" shows various shots of people from all walks of modern life, from beggars to debutantes. A scene of firefighters in a smoky street was shot during the aftermath of riots following the New York City blackout of 1977. "Ending" shows stock footage of a rocket lifting off and then exploding. (The film is actually two separate events — the first moments of the launch is a Saturn V rocket, while the rocket shown clearing the tower and later exploding is the first Atlas-Centaur, which was launched on May 8, 1962). The footage follows a flaming rocket engine as it plummets to earth. The film comes full circle with a shot of a different portion of The Great Gallery pictograph. It is similar to the first shot, but with no darkly shadowed figures.

...

Reggio stated that the Qatsi films are intended to simply create an experience and that "it is up [to] the viewer to take for himself/herself what it is that [the film] means." He also said that "these films have never been about the effect of technology, of industry on people. It's been that everyone: politics, education, things of the financial structure, the nation state structure, language, the culture, religion, all of that exists within the host of technology. So it's not the effect of, it's that everything exists within [technology]. It's not that we use technology, we live technology. Technology has become as ubiquitous as the air we breathe..."[6]

The movie has no dialogue but does feature the Hopi word koyaanisqatsi, translated as "life of moral corruption and turmoil" or "life out of balance," or "a state of life that calls for another way of living."[11] "Koyaanisqatsi" is chanted at the beginning and end of the film in a dark, sepulchral basso profundo by singer Albert de Ruiter over the score by Philip Glass. Three Hopi prophecies are sung by a choral ensemble during the latter part of the "Prophecies" movement are translated just prior to the end credits:

"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."

The film took about six years to make. Three years were spent shooting the film. Glass and Reggio spent an additional three years in a state of collaboration, with Glass composing score to fit the film and Reggio re-cutting the footage to fit the score.
 
hehe, ill wait for my tolerance to drop down and try it. I watched Baraka twice, once with the images, and once with my eyes closed and only the sound. Pure bliss.
 
HEAVENLY EXPERIENCE:

MXE+ BARAKA

Baraka is a movie without words, only music landscapes, it totally blowed my mind, i felt like a story was counted, and my mind travelled around the globe, many meditation involved**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYZ8RWqqicQ

Yeah I agree, I had seen this movie before and decided to watch again while on MXE. Totally amazing experience. Home is another good one to watch while using this substance ;)
 
I think combining with serotonegic drugs presents even more of a problem for some reason. I'm sure you know about the guy who died combining this with MDAI. I had my own unpleasant experience combing with MDAI as well.

1) I am sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience, and would like to wish you a swift and complete recovery. I am familiar with the death to which you are referring.

2) Even more of a problem than what? (referring to your first sentence)
 
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I think combining with serotonegic drugs presents even more of a problem for some reason. I'm sure you know about the guy who died combining this with MDAI. I had my own unpleasant experience combing with MDAI as well.

Your use of the term "serotonegic drugs" in this context is potentially quite misleading, especially for someone who is not familiar with the (somewhat complex) mechanism of action of MDAI.

"Serotonegic drug" means the same thing as "serotonergic agent". Both are synonymous with the noun "serotonergic", although the word is more often used in its adjective form, which also has multiple meanings.

Each of these three aforementioned terms can mean anything on the following list, which I have ordered (as best as I can) according to the approximate frequency with which the term is correctly representative of the intended disambiguation for the greatest number of probable contexts in which one of the three synonymous, generalized phrases mentioned in the preceding paragraph would be used.

1) Serotonin receptor agonist (selective or non-selective) (partial or full)
2) Serotonin reuptake inhibitor (selective or non-selective)
3) Serotonin releasing agent
4) Serotonin receptor antagonist (non-selective) (partial or full)
5) Serotonin receptor inverse agonist (partial or full)
6) Serotonin precursor, or serotonin precursor prodrug


MDAI's mechanism of action includes pharmacological effects involving both "2" and "3". Given the intrinsic dangers involved in promoting the release of serotonin while simultaneously inhibiting its reuptake, it should come as no surprise that combining other drugs with MDAI is a risky and dangerous endeavor.

But wait, there's more! MDAI also inhibits the reuptake of dopamine, although it is not particularly effective at doing this, so it shouldn't pose too much of a problem unless it is combined with another drug that either strongly releases dopamine, or strongly inhibits its reuptake. Thank God methoxetamine doesn't act as a dopamine releasing agent! Too bad it is a powerful dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
 
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So in review, combining MDAI with Methoxetamine means that the following things are going on in your brain:

1) Strong release of serotonin
2) Strong inhibition of serotonin reuptake
3) Weak inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake
3) Weak inhibition of dopamine reuptake


4) Strong inhibition of dopamine reuptake
5) Strong antagonism at NMDA receptors
6) Weak agonism at Mu-opioid receptors
*

*(uncomfirmed, but possible due to the chemical's structural similarity to 3-MeO-substituted arylcyclohexylamines that are known to possess agonistic activity at Mu-opioid receptors)

So what makes this combination dangerous and/or damaging IMO is:

1) Large amounts of serotonin are released and are not reuptaken.
There has been so little study on methoxetamine, in vitro or in vivo, formal or informal. We know very little about the drug itself, and far less about how it interacts with other psychoactive drugs.​
How methoxetamine interacts with large concentrations of extra-cellular and cytoplasmic serotonin, in the presense of a compounded releaser/reuptake-inhibitor is anybody's guess, but it requires no stretch of the imagination to hypothesize that damage to the serotonergic system could result.​

2) Multiple drugs are inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine.
This interaction is somewhat more straightforward, but once again, we have an exiguous understanding of how these particular drugs will react in combination.​
I would hypothesize that the possibility of damage to the dopaminergic system (to a more mild extent relative to the possibility for serotonergic damage, but nonetheless something that I would not haphazardly disregard) does exist with this combination of poorly understood drugs.​
 
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Reports suggest that combinations with methylone are equally hairy. However, with MDMA, and AMT, MXE seems to synergise wonderfully. Bizarrre...

Well, Pete, while both MDMA and its beta-ketone analog (methylone) promote the release of dopamine to some extent, only methylone appreciably inhibits its reuptake. So combining methylone and methoxetamine causes this to occur in your brain:

1) Moderate release of serotonin
2) Moderate inhibition of serotonin reuptake
3) Moderate release of norepinephrine
4) Moderate inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake
5) Moderate release of dopamine
6) Moderate inhibition of dopamine reuptake


4) Strong inhibition of dopamine reuptake
5) Strong antagonism at NMDA receptors
6) Possible weak agonism at Mu-Opioid receptors
*(see above)*

MDMA possesses some agonistic activity at serotonin receptors. Relevantly, MDMA is a weak 5-HT2a agonist, which should negate some of the toxicity induced by methoxetamine's antagonistic effects at NMDA glutamate receptors. This fact, in addition to the drug's minimal effect on the reuptake of dopamine (in the sense that it is not compounding methoxetamine's inhibition of dopamine reuptake in the same manner that an equipotent dose of methylone would be expected to induce), may contribute to MDMA's subjectively better synergy with methoxetamine than that of its beta-ketone analog.

AMT is actually a strong triple-releaser, and a moderate triple-reuptake-inhibitor, and it possesses more notable pharmacological mechanisms than I have the time or energy left to go into in detail. Notably, it's a moderate non-selective serotonin agonist, and if I remember correctly, it even possesses D1 dopamine agonistic properties. I've heard nothing but good things about its combination with MXE, though, so who knows what's going on there? Actually, I know the answer to that question. Nobody. Nobody knows the details of what exactly happens when you combine AMT and MXE.

One more post to go... 8) :D
 
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Saucy, that is absolutely the best possible answer I could ever have hoped for! =D This could offer an insight into why MDAI and methylone are to be avoided with methoxetamine. Sorry for the ambiguity about my 'serotonegic drugs', I was just talking about drugs that effect the serotonin system in some way. I wouldn't be surprised if I used the wrong term completely though...science isn't my thing.


Is there a page somewhere that lists all the pharmacological mechanisms of a variety of drugs, including the new research chemicals like 6-APB? I'd love to properly analyse each drug carefully and actually try to figure out what would happen if used in combination with MXE, without having to test it on myself first.


Oh and, "2) Even more of a problem than what? (referring to your first sentence)"

Even more of a problem than combining with stimulants.
 
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General Unanswered Questions about Combining Methoxetamine and Opioids

1) Is it safe to combine methoxetamine and opioids?
a) Does a possible pharmacological contraindication exist between these two drugs?​
b) Could dangerous levels of respiratory depression occur in the accepted dosage range for either drug?​
c) Could dangerous levels of hypertension or hypotension occur in the accepted dosage range?​

2) What would be the nature of their interaction between MXE and Opioids at low doses?
a) Would the methoxetamine potentiate the opioid effects?​
b) Would the opioid(s) potentiate the dissociative effects?​
c) Could the Methoxetamine potentially reduce the accumulation of tolerance to the opioid effects, as has been noted with other NMDA antagonists and prolonged opioid use?​
d) Would one expect a low to moderate dose combination of the two drugs to produce strongly euphoric effects (i.e. "greater than the sum of its parts")?​

3) What would be the nature of the interaction between MXE and Opioids at high doses?
a) Would one expect such a combination to augment (increase or decrease) the CEV visual effects of higher-dose MXE experience?​
b) Would one expect the combination to produce a "nodding" state, an OBE dissociative state, or perhaps a hybrid of the two phenomena?​
c) Would any "nodding" state lose its dreamlike coherence due to the dramatically altered mindset produced by high-dose MXE?​
d) Would one expect such a combination to reduce memory-recall of a higher-dose MXE experience?​

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, thats the end of the "Saucy Substitutes Bluelight for Sleep: Volume 4". Hope you guys find some of this information helpful; cheers if you found any entertainment value in it. Thanks in advance if anyone can provide me with some info on the Opiate/MXE combos.

Cheers,

-Saucy
 
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Wow Saucy, this is the most comprehensive information regarding MXE combos. Can anything be done to ensure this information won't get lost in the thread?
 
structures.jpg

Has anybody used 3-MeO-PCE and methoxetamine? How did they compare qualitatively? Structurally methoxetamine is closer to it than any other recreational dissociative I know of. They've both been described as stimulating and not as anesthetizing as ketamine. They also have similar durations.

I know people think of methoxetamine as a ketamine analogue, which is a comforting thought in a way, but really isn't it much closer to 3-MeO-PCE, a much less familiar drug with "scarier" "PC" initials? Also, it's tendency to produce mania in users seems to have a lot more in common with the effects of PCP and related compounds than ketamine. I don't mean to imply anything more than this necessarily, I just find it funny how methoxetamine seems to be treated like ketamine with all the large doses and redoses reported when what's going on in our heads may be a lot closer to the experience of compounds many of us would approach with a lot more caution than we do methoxetamine.
 
^ I've used MXE and 3-MeO-PCE both together and separately. MXE is definitely more similar to PCE than it is to ket but not as similar as it is to 3-MeO-PCP. Pretty close though. 3-MeO-PCE seemed to be slightly more "deranged" alone or with MXE but I was in the middle of a massive dissociative binge at the time so my doses were high and also probably a bit sloppily measured. Another similarity is the delayed onset of 3-MeO-PCE - even with IM dosing - which is reminiscent of MXE. Broadly speaking, if you aren't especially familiar with either drug I'd say you could easily mistake one for the other (although PCE doses are a fair bit lower in general). Isn't MXE a ketone (?) analogue of 3-MeO-PCE anyway? Tis what it says in the alternative chemical name given for it anyway.

Also, a word of caution from EADD regarding fake product sold by "unofficial" vendors. Bear in mind my reaction was due to having taken tramadol the same day - tramadol with MXE has never caused me any problems. Thought it worth mentioning as a few people have mentioned buying "unofficial" MXE and mentioning a crsytally texture similar to the stuff that I had. Could have been far worse for me (was bad enough as it is) but the fella not on tramadol "just" got ripped off and disappointed, fortunately.

Me in EADD MXE Thread said:
anyone had quality issues?

Yup. The "unofficial" stuff I mentioned above and sampled yesterday late afternoon was either completely fake or very heavily cut. Not sure what with but my suspicion would be one of the "Eric" products or some other crap they had loads left in stock that nobody would touch. It was a white powder but nowhere near as fluffy and voluminous as the official product - also had a more crystalline consistency.

Cos I'm a complete fuckin' idiot I though I'd try a lil bit anyway. Bad idea. Whatever was in it must have been active cos even a tiny amount was pretty strong. Also fairly pleasant at first. Unfortunately that was probably cos it was potentiated to what ended up being rather dangerous levels as I had taken my first dose of tramadol for the day a few hours earlier. After deciding I quite liked it even though it clearly wasn't MXE I redosed just 20-30mg attempting to be a bit cautious. Ended up stiff as a board, highly agitated, massively overstimulated and dripping with sweat, totally delirious and wide awake for 24+ hours. Have had Serotonin Syndrome before and this was the same reaction only milder. Thank fuck I only took such a small amount or I'd likely be an ex-Shambles - getting lucky twice is beyond lucky but am very glad to be such a lucky boy.

Stuff cost the same as the official vendors and came in a clear baggie with the chemical name and weight printed on a label. Far more homemade-looking than the legit packaging but not totally amateurish. Wasn't me that ordered it but maybe the person who did will take the point about sticking to official vendors rather than thinking it's all just a scam and not wanting to be "taken the piss out of". The fella not on tramadol said it was a bit stimulating with some euphoria and not at all dissociating - he also needed way more than standard MXE doses to get any effect at all.
 
I just received my MXE and will be experimenting all this weekend along with my replicate other at a massive rave event.

I am interested in the possibility that most of the positive reports coming from individuals who have claimed oral, sublingual and rectal are superior forms of administration, are due to metabolism of the 3-methoxy portion of MXE into 3-hydroxy.

I would love to hear from people who have tried both I.M. and rectal, with information relating to duration and intensity. With ketamine, rectal administration leads to the most rapid conversion of ketamine to nor-ketamine, along with oral, while nasal and injected routes lead to a slower rate of conversion and higher plasma concentrations of ketamine.

I've had the pleasure of trying 3-HO-PCP and from my limited experiments, the substance was godly. To find a similar experience in another substance would be heavenly, and hopefully MXE provides some similarities in the headspace.

If you compare DXM to DXO and codeine to morphine, 3-methoxy is inferior to 3-hydroxy and this would explain the delayed onset of m-hole like effects.

I'd also love to hear from people who used MXE on a regular daily basis, do deeper states become easier to attain despite tolerance increase?

The metabolism of this compound seems fascinating.
 
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