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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

My nanna can't tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine!

So you, MrIbis, can speak from experience but we can't? WTF?





I must be an idiot that doesn't know anything about my old D.O.C :)
 
MrIbis said:
i'd beg to differ on the comments that there is nil profit, people will buy the shit no matter if it looks like shit or looks like the best shard on earth.
Click to expand...

So why sell a good product when you could sell a shit one and triple or higher your profits???


All your 'argument' is doing is demonstrating my point 8)
 
This discussion has gone nowhere fast.

Speculation is just that, and it seems every time this or other meth threads are bumped the same pointless arguments start again. All going well, I should be speaking to a forensic chemist in a few weeks, one who probably knows more about what's around in Aus than anybody. You can rest assured I'll be asking the ketone question, so hopefully we can finally settle this once and for all.

Until then, if you want to know whether it's racemic or not, it will need to be purified, a sample prepared and viewed through one of these

Laurent-polarimeter.jpg
 
Thank you p_d!

I'm not trying to undermine anyone with my 'knowledge' psilo or hyroller - just speaking from what i've actually seen (in terms of people doing backyard meth synths) not just trying something and it was inferior to another batch and tasted shit (mainly due to cutters). I speak of financial viability - and unless you own some kind of super lab, pumping out a fuckload of racemic meth is going to be much harder than cooking up a few pounds of pseudo that smurfs have got.

Anyway, i'll wait with bated breath for p_d's conclusion to this saga. I'm sick to death of this debate, when no one knows one way or the other.
 
So p_d,

I'm guessing that machine, is some type of R/L polarization measurement with a microscope built in, where the gadges just let you determine the different orientaitons of the molecules your looking at.

Go chemistry/physics first principles.

On topic on the off topic convo:

Keep personal attacks out of the thread, it does nothing for HR, and speculation is just that. Unless you've got good resources, *looks at p_d's machine from the 1800's*, then you thats all you can do.

True some of your conclusions may be based off empirical evidence, but this empirical evidence is collected in such un-scientific means that your conclusions can not be viable.

I know it's the best the average user can do with the information on hand. But no need to say that my un-scientific method is better then your un-scientific method because of some hand wavy reason. It's best to compile all the information we have and then maybe we can look for significant trends and come to some *possibly viable* conclusion together.

As bickering against one another is not going to solve the mystery it's just going to make BL look worse, not a win for anyone. So either work together, this doesn't mean agreeing, or simply wait for more evidence before you come to a *greatly more* scientific conclusion.
 
Well said Sykik.

Yes, it is an old polarimeter, which is used in chem to identify optical rotation; how polarized light is rotated by different substances.

While I'm sure you don't need any explanation of the processes involved, for others interested, this from wiki (Optical rotation) provides a good overview of how this is measured. As the mathematical symbols won't paste properly, I've omitted those and parts describing such. For a more complete explanation see under "Theory" via the above link.

Optical activity is a type of birefringence. Any linear polarization of light can be written as an equal combination of right-hand (RHC) and left-hand circularly (LHC) polarized light:

The relative phase between the two circular polarizations, 2θ0, sets the direction of the linear polarization to θ0. In an optically active material the two circular polarizations experience different refractive indices. The difference in the indices quantifies the strength of the optical activity, .....

This difference is a characteristic of the material (for substances in solution it is given as the specific rotation). After traveling through length L of material the two polarizations pick up a relative phase ..... Consequently, the final polarization is rotated to angle θ0 + Δθ.

Generally, the refractive index depends on the wavelength (see dispersion). The variation in rotation with the wavelength of the light is called optical rotatory dispersion (ORD). ORD spectra and circular dichroism spectra are related through the Kramers–Kronig relations. Complete knowledge of one spectrum allows the calculation of the other.

In summary, the degree of rotation depends on the color of the light (the yellow sodium D line near 589 nm wavelength is commonly used for measurements), the path length L and the properties of the material (e.g. Δn or specific rotation and concentration).
Click to expand...
 
I understand the science of this completely, before anyone discredits me and says i'm speculating, it's fair to say - but i'd say it's more of an educated guess (i honestly don't know or care what drugs you're taking or how shit they are). Based upon my knowledge of the market, industry and what i know of clandestine production, and have witnessed by firsthand account (shake-n-bake pseudo synths... one of which i was witness to a few weeks back... by far the most shoddy set of chemistry i have ever seen in my life).

In all of this, my conclusion is that there is likely alot more d-meth than racemic. But yeah until we have a decent amount of samples, and have them purified and a statistic for drugs TODAY confirmed by p_d or someone else (i'd be quite happy to assemble these samples for analysis just to fuck this argument off once and for all - and if it's found that my hypothesis is incorrect, i'll bite my tongue).
 
I've seen my fair share of shake n bake pseudo synths.

That doesn't change the reality of the present time.

If I could be fucked spending money on the shit drugs out there for your edification, I would - but I can't, and so we can wait for p_d's buddy to get back to us - who will (I am certain) confirm what I've been saying all along.

All your opinions are based on inferences, MrIbis, not actual consumer experience - remember that.
 
I'd like to bring up something that sustanon raised in one of his posts, why, with the ease of availability of the precursors to phenyl-2-nitropropene, is amp sulphate not more widely available??? Is it because it is not smokable? sort of a supply and demand thing, in that more people are chasing the rush that comes with smoking/IVing rather than the more prolonged high that comes with other ROI's

I know that meth was easier to synth when psudo was available but now that smurfing is almost impossible why risk buying it on the black market when it must be easier to divert or even purchase legally, these 3 or 4 unwatched chemicals????
 
this is interesting, and i never thought about it, but i guess crystal over there comes from (insert South/East Asian country)?

whereas here, all the good comes from Mexico

cheers
 
Yes. Mostly from Asia (including China).

America also has a massive amount of home cooked gear (from what I hear, not speaking from experience). I suppose it would be different from state to state though.
 
there are but a lot of the underground labs have been busted & all the major chemicals to make it are heavily watched/controlled (esp pseudo), so most of it comes from mexico now

most shake n bake is for personal use. large quantities just aren't worth the risk, i'd assume
 
There isn't much point speculating as to what other people are getting. I am sure there is plenty of pseudo and ketone out there, like all drugs it really does depend who you know. Sure in some cases the odds of you knowing someone with one thing are greater than another but at the end of the day all anybody can do is speculate.

It is kinda silly to say there is no difference between racemic and pseudo methamphetamine, it is pretty well documented that there is actually a difference in their effects and potency. While I wouldn't be complaining if I had my hands on some pure "ketone" (misleading term btw) there probably some people out there that are really turned off by the addition of the L isomer.

Seriously, fuck speed! I had some ice in February and it was by far the best methamphetamine I have ever used. While it was not my first experience with ice it was definately the purest shit I have ever seen. After using that stuff I have no trouble believing your average 'speed' is only 10-15% pure because it just does not compare.

Ice seems really overpriced these days but if you don't get ripped off I guarantee your getting atleast as much meth for your money as buying 'speed', the only reason I would ever buy 'speed' again is if I wanted to do lines in a club or something. If I am putting it in a pipe you can bet it will be shards.
 
drug_mentor said:
There isn't much point speculating as to what other people are getting. I am sure there is plenty of pseudo and ketone out there, like all drugs it really does depend who you know. Sure in some cases the odds of you knowing someone with one thing are greater than another but at the end of the day all anybody can do is speculate.

It is kinda silly to say there is no difference between racemic and pseudo methamphetamine, it is pretty well documented that there is actually a difference in their effects and potency. While I wouldn't be complaining if I had my hands on some pure "ketone" (misleading term btw) there probably some people out there that are really turned off by the addition of the L isomer.

Seriously, fuck speed! I had some ice in February and it was by far the best methamphetamine I have ever used. While it was not my first experience with ice it was definately the purest shit I have ever seen. After using that stuff I have no trouble believing your average 'speed' is only 10-15% pure because it just does not compare.

Ice seems really overpriced these days but if you don't get ripped off I guarantee your getting atleast as much meth for your money as buying 'speed', the only reason I would ever buy 'speed' again is if I wanted to do lines in a club or something. If I am putting it in a pipe you can bet it will be shards.
Click to expand...

yes there are less peripheral effects with d-methamphetamine.. much smoother. that's what i usually use. i feel wide awake & chill on it, thinking clearly etc

i didn't get what tweaking was till i tried racemic meth (d+l isomers). to me, it's more euphoric & tends to create a stoned feeling when smoked.. sort of a floaty feeling

my friends and i even have a joke about it.. the racemic stuff is what we like to party on (also called the sex stuff =D) while d-meth is good for everything; especially for work (cause it provides stamina + focus)
 
I cannot believe the quality that some people will put into their bodies thinking its 'mad shit.'

Like has already been said, it's who you know, only buy from trusted sources.
 
I wonder if P_D ever got to speak with a forensic chemist as outlined in 2010...and if he did, what was the results?
 
Ok so I hate to quote myself (another thread here):

tyrael said:
The possible methamphetamine "types" (for lack of a better word) which could possible be purchased are the two enantiomer, racemic and each being either a sale (HCl) or freebase?

L-Methamphetamine HCl
D-Methamphetamine HCl
D/L-Methamphetamine HCl

L-Methamphetamine freebase
D-Methamphetamine freebase
D/L-Methamphetamine freebase

(and then combinations of the freebase/salt but I would assume this would be highly uncommon)
Click to expand...


However this whole "I've got ice", "No, it's speed", "No, it's shards" crap is aggravating.

Given the list of possible chemical enantiomer of methamphetmines, are the more knowledgeable on here able to make an (educated) guess as of what we say "ice" this implies ???, or "gear/speed" (to me gear and speed are the same - having different purities ranging from being totally stepped on to neat) implies ??? ?.

Other then trying to clarify this using standard nomenclature, my personal question is what is "ice" (in terms of SA slang :p )
 
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