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    Codeine for Opiate Withdrawal 
    #1
    Bluelighter jaystyle's Avatar
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    Hey all,

    From what I read, rarely do people suffer substantial withdrawals from codeine. It has the least intense withdrawals out of all opiates. Would it not make sense, then, to use it to come off of harder opiates? My theory is that when you switch from hard opiates to codeine, you will be in a minor withdrawal from switching to a much lesser opiate that still provides some relief. Eventually, the body will adjust to the codeine and you can taper off of codeine which will have much less intense withdrawals.

    What do you guys think about using codeine for withdrawal?
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    #2
    Bluelighter HdoubleODeezy's Avatar
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    i think you should CT your addiction and after 3 days of dealing with hell you can take 1 or 2 pills with codeine and you will feel much better when you take them, but it will prolong the w/ds so if you can keep a bottle of codeine nearby so you know you can end the suffering at anytime it might help you CT and you might not need to dose codeine because of the comfort of knowing you have them there.. that's what i did with tramadol when i was coming off suboxone.
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    #3
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    Codeine (and tramadol) are weak opiates but they're still opiates. At least they're not propoxyphene.

    Anyway, they are also great to have around when you're withdrawing from a stronger opiate. Kratom works for this too, at least for some people. However, you will be prolonging the withdrawal syndrome...but as long as you're fine with that then you're good
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    #4
    I've used it to come off H.

    When at the worst of the WDs (after 2 days or so) taking about 200mg makes you feel not 100% better by a long way but eases it definitely. TBH I found it best to take the stuff before going to bed, it just made getting sleep easier.
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    #5
    Bluelight Crew Mora Fiend's Avatar
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    I can say I have used Tylenol 4 (prescribed, 60mg codeine/325 APAP) to come off of a really nasty heroin habit. Just as the first poster said, go CT for at least a day or two, then maybe pop 1 or 2 pills, it will make you feel better for a few hours, and yes it will prolong your wds, just to a lesser extent.

    Hopefully you have a decent ammount, I know I had 60 pills and I used em all by the time I was done, but a reasonable taper saved me from any really bad WDS. Going CT the first day or two is key. If you don't trust yourself to start popping the codeine the first day give it to a friend and tell them to not let you have them til 48 hours has passed or somethin like that.

    GL to you man, wish you the best.
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    #6
    It is a fantastic idea... Kratom is probably more suited to opiate w/d for most people, but for those that don't respond well to kratom or do not like the effects (which certainly resemble the thebaine-derivative opiates), codeine or dihydrocodeine are both suitable for "stepping down"...
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    #7
    If you're looking to do a really short term detox, why not just get a little Suboxone? If you don't have any tolerance for it already, you can take it for like 5-6 days (IME, full agonist opiate WDs last exactly 7-8 days) and be completely fine afterwards. That's short enough where you won't build up an addiction to the Bupe (especially if you're taking very small doses) and it'll get you out of the woods almost completely pain free. Just have to worry about the first day and maybe some extremely minor (lethargy, depression) residual effects on the way out.

    That's basically the same thing as what you're suggesting with the Codeine, though it'll be quicker and easier on your body. Neither really work for most people (myself included) because one week isn't long enough to get past that insane mental craving of wanting to get high. If you can do it, more power to you (either way) - but most people have success either going through it cold turkey and scaring themselves straight from how horrible it was or staying on maintenance doses of Sub/Methadone for at least a few months and then tapering down.

    I'm not saying don't try it, different things work for different people - just letting you know there might be an easier solution out there. All the horror stories you hear about Bupe WD are from long term/high dose users. One week on a low dose isn't enough to become dependent on it. Ultimately though, the mental aspect is the toughest to conquer.
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    #8
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    I can attest that withdrawals from a codeine addiction are not that bad. I lived in Europe, and my American ass started popping 1,000 - 1,300mg of codeine a day. When I cold turkeyed, after six months of daily use, the withdrawals were un pleasant but nothing horrible. With a few xanax's I could sleep every night and go to school, even though I felt like crap.

    I think codeine would be a much better substitute for suboxone for short term detox, as people who get on subs tend to not wanna get off of them. And suboxone withdrawals are nasty.
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    #9
    Okay, codeine does get metabolized into morphine. It is considered weak because those with a tolerance can't take enough to achieve desired effect as it has a ceiling dose. It is still an opiate, and will prolong the withdrawals.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CitioKid View Post
    I can attest that withdrawals from a codeine addiction are not that bad. I lived in Europe, and my American ass started popping 1,000 - 1,300mg of codeine a day. When I cold turkeyed, after six months of daily use, the withdrawals were un pleasant but nothing horrible. With a few xanax's I could sleep every night and go to school, even though I felt like crap.

    I think codeine would be a much better substitute for suboxone for short term detox, as people who get on subs tend to not wanna get off of them. And suboxone withdrawals are nasty.
    ...BUT, you do not get Suboxone withdrawals after only one week of taking it. Unlike the withdrawals you will get from switching to Codeine from a heavier opiate addiction. People who are on any kind of opiate don't want to get off them, that's not somehow more prevalent with Suboxone... it's just that it's easier to come by consistently over a very long time period (since you or one of your friends can easily get it from a doctor).
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    #11
    Bluelighter suessmayr's Avatar
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    People have been using codeine to kick stronger opiates for generations. Do it.

    S
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    #12
    It will prolong withdrawals. Codeine is converted into morphine, wonderful for shorterm relief of opiate withdrawals. I wonder why, maybe because there is MORPHINE in the mix. Yes, codeine can be used to "step down" off of stronger opiates, but it will just prolong the misery.
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    #13
    Bluelighter shady4091's Avatar
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    I'd say give it a shot, but only if you have T4's. I've found that all the caffeine left over after a CWE of 8mg pills just makes me feel worse and more anxious.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by shady4091 View Post
    I'd say give it a shot, but only if you have T4's. I've found that all the caffeine left over after a CWE of 8mg pills just makes me feel worse and more anxious.
    in the uk and australia they have no caffeine, i find that after 30-40 tabs of Tylenol1 the caffeine shows to many negative effects, however i believe one can do an acetone wash and purify the tablets so that codeine is isolated from the apap/caffeine.
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    #15
    Bluelighter shady4091's Avatar
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    You mean the T4's? They don't have caffeine in them here either, that's why I recommended them over the T1's (8mg codeine, 15mg caffeine, 325mg apap)

    If you mean that the T1's don't have caffeine in them, then wow, that's sweet lol.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by shady4091 View Post
    You mean the T4's? They don't have caffeine in them here either, that's why I recommended them over the T1's (8mg codeine, 15mg caffeine, 325mg apap)

    If you mean that the T1's don't have caffeine in them, then wow, that's sweet lol.
    sorry i was a bit unclear i believe the UK gets tylenol3 OTC as i had an uncle bring a box of 100 and give them to us as a gift, it went by the name of co-codmol and they also have 8mg/500mgapap with no caffeine.

    the problem with t4s is that they're a bit difficult to find compared to t1's but the lack of caffeine makes codeine much more euphoric and calming.
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    #17
    Bluelighter HdoubleODeezy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doIhavePotential View Post
    sorry i was a bit unclear i believe the UK gets tylenol3 OTC as i had an uncle bring a box of 100 and give them to us as a gift, it went by the name of co-codmol and they also have 8mg/500mgapap with no caffeine.

    the problem with t4s is that they're a bit difficult to find compared to t1's but the lack of caffeine makes codeine much more euphoric and calming.

    ^ tylenol 1s have 8mg codeine, tylenol 3s have 30mg codeine, and tylenol 4s have 60mg codeine. I have no clue about tylenol 2s.

    EDIT: just noticed you said the word "also" in there.. sorry.. i thought you were saying T3's had 8mg codeine.. my b (second mistake i have made in 10 min) time for a break lol
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    #18
    Bluelighter adder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaystyle View Post
    Hey all,

    From what I read, rarely do people suffer substantial withdrawals from codeine. It has the least intense withdrawals out of all opiates. Would it not make sense, then, to use it to come off of harder opiates? My theory is that when you switch from hard opiates to codeine, you will be in a minor withdrawal from switching to a much lesser opiate that still provides some relief. Eventually, the body will adjust to the codeine and you can taper off of codeine which will have much less intense withdrawals.

    What do you guys think about using codeine for withdrawal?
    A lot of people here use codeine when heroin is not available. It certainly is a whole lot weaker and people addicted to heroin usually go all the way. So when one gets into such a situation and codeine is the only thing available (it's OTC here in 15/500 codeine/APAP tabs easy to perform extraction on, a few years ago there was a stronger variant of this medication 20/300 but it's gone), usual doses to survive are over 1000mg a day. I spent some time on codeine at the beginning of my ride with opioids. Because of blockade of CYP2D6 by codeine itself doses following the first dose aren't as efficient as the first dose, for me the shortest break to get some good effects was 12hrs and after 18hrs I would get about the same strength I got from the first dose. So it's quite troublesome to overcome withdrawal effects from heroin with codeine if one is so addicted that one has to take heroin like 3-4 times a day.

    And codeine do cause withdrawal when you get really into it. It's no different than other opioids in this aspect, it's only milder but for people who took only codeine in their life, it's hard to get through this. I used to know a few people addicted to codeine so much they couldn't last a day without it because they'd get classical withdrawal.

    I know there has been some trials with dihydrocodeine as a possible maintenance drug which is believed by some to act on its own (or maybe some believe DHC-6-glucuronide is much more active than codeine-6-glucuronide). But I can't remember where it was tried (the UK perhaps). I myself see differences between codeine and DHC but it's not enough to treat an addiction with very high tolerance. Hydrocodone wasn't enough for me and it's proved it has "10- to 33-fold less affinity than hydromorphone to the
    mu-opiate receptors."
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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady4091 View Post
    You mean the T4's? They don't have caffeine in them here either, that's why I recommended them over the T1's (8mg codeine, 15mg caffeine, 325mg apap)

    If you mean that the T1's don't have caffeine in them, then wow, that's sweet lol.
    hi i have been a h user and im on methodone, ive been reducing and am now on 8ml reducing 2ml a week so im nearly there ( shitting my self) i have 60 dfs 30mg, i was thinking of using them to help with the wds wat do you think bout CWE these is it worth it thanks
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    #20
    Bluelighter jaystyle's Avatar
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    Thanks for replies. I understand it will be prolonging it--- I am ok with that; just cant take that intense misery from cold turkey =\
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    #21
    Bluelight Crew Mora Fiend's Avatar
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    Have you ever thought of trying a moderate dose of loperamide? (And no, I am not trying to spark up a "loperamide fucks me up like heroin" debate).

    Whenever I am facing a hard cold turkey w/d I get myself a 96 count bottle of Loperamide and take half of it the first day and half the next and it really helps knock the cravings off for me personally.
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    #22
    Bluelighter jaystyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mora Fiend View Post
    Have you ever thought of trying a moderate dose of loperamide? (And no, I am not trying to spark up a "loperamide fucks me up like heroin" debate).

    Whenever I am facing a hard cold turkey w/d I get myself a 96 count bottle of Loperamide and take half of it the first day and half the next and it really helps knock the cravings off for me personally.
    Wouldn't that constipate you beyond belief?
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    #23
    Bluelight Crew BrokedownPalace's Avatar
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    ^Lope in my experience is no more constipating than other more traditional opiates. Lope is an opiate of sorts as well, just barely crossing the BBB. I am on MMT and while I have gotten used to it and am fine now, the first 6 months of 'done were more constipating then loperamide ever was. Lope works surprisingly well in curbing withdrawal symptoms.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by BrokedownPalace View Post
    ^Lope in my experience is no more constipating than other more traditional opiates. Lope is an opiate of sorts as well, just barely crossing the BBB. I am on MMT and while I have gotten used to it and am fine now, the first 6 months of 'done were more constipating then loperamide ever was. Lope works surprisingly well in curbing withdrawal symptoms.
    hmm I might have to try that. Once in a blue moon the dr office leaves me in the lurch because they decide to close randomly for 3 days and didn't refill my scripts..the lolgottastaveoffanywdperiod starts. I never considered lope for anything other than fighting diarrhea
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    #25
    Bluelight Crew BrokedownPalace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volp View Post
    hmm I might have to try that. Once in a blue moon the dr office leaves me in the lurch because they decide to close randomly for 3 days and didn't refill my scripts..the lolgottastaveoffanywdperiod starts. I never considered lope for anything other than fighting diarrhea
    Yes, a high dose of loperamide (in my experience) does wonders for minimizing basically all w/d symptoms. The aches/pains, tearing, yawning, hot/cold sweats..The restless legs, insomnia.. It really does some magic, it is pretty wild. i never really believed it either, and then I tried it one time I didn't have any methadone for like five days. My w/d symptoms all but disappeared, and I even got some sleep that last night before i could finally go back to the clinic and get my 'done.

    There are a number of really good threads about it, check out the search engine, or the directory.
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