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    Seroquel+Cogentin Hally's 
    #1
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    I am perscribed 800mg daily of Seroquel IR, along with Cogentin 1mg to help with the dysphasia caused by the seroquel

    I was previously on it, from march 09' til feb '10, but was switched when i flushed my meds down the toilet in a rage. Towards the end of that time, I noticed (couldnt really not notice) that when i took my seroquel at night, and went to bed, as soon as the lights were off, and the room was fairly dark, i would see demonic faces and scary things in general, like my brain was projecting my fears, on the ceiling. right around this time i was taken off, and forgot about it. Now that i am back on it, plus the cogentin, i get auditory hallucinations at night after my dose. The best way i could describe it is the auditory hallucinations experienced on Diphenhydramine and Dimenhydrinate. This is especially unnerving to me, as i have been in drug treatment many time (6+) for my addiction to Diph. When i took the pills to trip , i was prepared. but sitting at my computer doing homework, not so ready. I get scared, and paranoid that someone (or something) is behind me, and have to leave the room, usually to talk to my parents til it wore off. This is very scary, as i fear (no brain scan yet) from what doctors have said, i may have damaged my brain from excessive Diph trips (3-5 times a week) since january of 09, with some breaks in between binges. I started out doing 20-25 pills, and most recently before residential in march, upwards of 60-70 pills. IIRC these are very high doses according to the Erowid dose chart. The auditories are no longer nightly, but still around 4-5 times a week, and are actually getting worse. I don't know what to do, because my doc wont act on it due to the class of drug they are -->. I know both Seroquel and Cogentin are Anti-colinergic, as is benadryl, but i am damn near desprate for a solution to this problem. It is making me more paranoid (even when its not happening) and anxious.

    Basically, if there is something i can do to stop this, please let me know!

    Thanks,
    --Chris.

    edit: in the weeks before the most recent treatment stay (nov 5 to jan 3), i was droppin 120-180 pills a trip on top of a bottle or two of delsym.
    Last edited by Doc Hydramine; 02-02-2011 at 18:32. Reason: I lied.
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    #2
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    Hey mate. I have little info to offer on this apart from what I've experienced from using this drug as a sleep aid (note to others: usually not worth it, only a last resort as far as I'm concerned). I too have experienced the hallucinations/delusions that you're talking about. A 800mg daily dose is rather high, my good friend who is schizophrenic used to take 400mg daily, and THAT was too much for the poor bastard!

    Honestly, you need to speak to your doctor and psychiatrist about the dosage you're taking, and explain that you're not handling the side-effects. There may be other treatment options available for you, but without knowing your circumstances none of us can give you safe guidance I'm afraid

    Be careful if you lower your Seroquel dosage on your own too. Speak to your doctor first (even if it's just on the phone) to get some advice on anything like that. Professionals are the only ones who can safely help you here man. If they're not helping, find new ones. I feel for you, I really do, Seroquel delusions are fricken terrible *shudder
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    #3
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    Well thats the trade off. Either im on a dose high enough to control my moods and trip at night, or i go into rages again. i would prefer the hallys to the blind anger i deal with. No other med has EVER worked as well. Geodon actually made my outright violent.
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    #4
    Given that your questions are regarding psych treatment, I think TDS may me more appropriate so let's try this over there.



    --->TDS
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    #5
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    It might be worth giving Seroquel XR a shot to see if the same thing happens when your dose is released over an extended period. You may also find the older anti-psychotics like Haldol and Thorazine are a better option for you than Seroquel.

    People often go off their meds because of unacceptable side effects and good doctors will work with a patient to find the medication which gives the best results with the least side effects. Any doctor who minimises or dismisses your concerns about side effects doesn't deserve to be entrusted with your mental health.
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    #6
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    Seroquel is not that strong of a anti-cholinergic at all i don't think but it is a pretty damn potent anti-histamine which is what gives it it's knockout effect and what makes it useful as a sleep aid in low doses. Benzotropine aka cogentin is a very potent anti-cholinergic and could definetely cause hallucinations much like you experience from dimenhydrinate or diphenhydramine at high doses. That is if the benzotropine is effecting you in a bad way. Seroquel can cause hallucinations in some people as well.

    Have you tried many other anti-psychotics besides geodon and seroquel? Seroquel XR might be worst a shot since it releases over 24 hours and not at once so you may not get as many side effects from it. There are also many other anti-psychotics on the market both atypical and typical that can be used to help control rage. I get rage alot with bad mixed state mania so i kinda know how much blind rage just fucking sucks. Especially when there is no reason for it.

    Id say this is definetely something you should speak to your doctor about.
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    #7
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    i took 'Quel XR and couldnt sleep (awake for six days). Both versions cause me dysphasia. I am hesistant to try Thorazine or Haldol, as i have friends who went that route, an ended up very damaged from it (zombified, horrible tremors, weak, etc) . Right now, i'm not taking anything (not until saturday) As i am Trying 2C-I friday night, and was concerned that the quetiapine would block the trip. After friday however, I am making my first attempt (for me, not for parents, or friends) to drop all substances. This could help, i figure. ^^ With or without Cogentin, the hallucinations are there. The cogentin causes auditories, while Quel is the waving/rippling effect in the dark like on Dryl.
    *sigh* I would love to not take anything, as i feel much more free since i stopped my meds, but i have been bi polar as a magnet (cycling from suicidal to on top of the world by the minute, without friends i'd be a wreck) and frankly, when manic isnt rage, i love it. almost like a natural high. I know i gotta stop being picky, and at my next visit to the doc, i'm gonna lay all this out. Wish i had a script for Triple C's and some good skunk.
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    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Hydramine View Post
    i took 'Quel XR and couldnt sleep (awake for six days). Both versions cause me dysphasia. I am hesistant to try Thorazine or Haldol, as i have friends who went that route, an ended up very damaged from it (zombified, horrible tremors, weak, etc) . Right now, i'm not taking anything (not until saturday) As i am Trying 2C-I friday night, and was concerned that the quetiapine would block the trip. After friday however, I am making my first attempt (for me, not for parents, or friends) to drop all substances. This could help, i figure. ^^ With or without Cogentin, the hallucinations are there. The cogentin causes auditories, while Quel is the waving/rippling effect in the dark like on Dryl.
    *sigh* I would love to not take anything, as i feel much more free since i stopped my meds, but i have been bi polar as a magnet (cycling from suicidal to on top of the world by the minute, without friends i'd be a wreck) and frankly, when manic isnt rage, i love it. almost like a natural high. I know i gotta stop being picky, and at my next visit to the doc, i'm gonna lay all this out. Wish i had a script for Triple C's and some good skunk.
    Okay first of all i think it is a very bad idea to take 2C-I while your already suffering from hallucinations that happen when you take your prescribed meds. It could make the hallucinations worse or make them happen more often as there is no way to tell just how psychedelics will affect you especially if you are coming off any medication or if you are suffering from a mental disorder. Another thing is you are not supposed to stop taking seroquel or any other anti-psychotic cold turkey (taking seroquel at low doses for sleep is different) because the symptoms can return worse then before. About the only time doctors take patients off anti-psychotics cold turkey is when they are getting sudden severe side effects such as TD or NMS. Doctors generally taper you off slowly to minimize the risk of the symptoms returning. In your case since you get mania (you sort of sound like you get the same type of mania which i often get which is mixed state) and you are not taking any other medications besides seroquel to control it a return of your previous symptoms is a very likely outcome in my opinion atleast. So i would advise you to go back on your meds until you can see your doctor.

    Also another reason for not going off anti-psychotics cold turkey is that anti-psychotics can according to some reports ive read cause a sort of withdrawal effect. This makes sense because seroquel is a dopamine and serotonin receptor antagonist so if you go off it suddenly you may get a sort of rebound effect where you end up with more dopamine and serotonin then you started out with. And as someone who has bipolar i can testify to the fact that having excess dopamine or in my case serotonin floating around in my synapses is certainly not a good thing.

    This is not even mentioning the fact that psychedelics can trigger off mania on there own and are generally not a good idea for anyone who is suffering from bipolar disorder to take. I could not imagine how horrible being manic or worse mixed state while on a psychedelic must be. As i said before being in the right mindset while tripping is essential and being manic is certainly not the right mindset to say the very least. Also you sound like a rapid cycler like me and my moods can change in a flash without the help of any drugs.

    Have you tried any other atypicals besides seroquel and geodon? You certainly don't have to go the route of thorazine or haldol unless most of the atypicals don't work for you and if some of the easier typicals like say loxapine don't help you either. Seroquel was the first medication i was put on for bipolar but on it's own i didnt find it to be that effective although i must say it helps with the depression side of things for me pretty quickly. Right now the anti-psychotic i take is risperidone and although it is one of the oldest atypical anti-psychotics on the market and has harsher side effects then other atypicals like say seroquel or zyprexa for alot of people it works for me and definetely helps with the rage aspect that comes with bipolar mania. Although i find zyprexa to work the best for me by far i can't afford the stuff

    Have you tried mood stabilizers or antimanic drugs? These are really the first line of treatment for bipolar disorder and generally have much less side effects then anti-psychotics. Lithium and lamictal are in fact the only 2 true mood stabilizers out there since they control both the manic and depressive sides of bipolar disorder. Valproate which is sold under many names such as epival, depakote, epilem, etc and carbamazepine are 2 examples of antimanic drugs used in the treatment of bipolar disorder. These drugs work for alot of people so id be very surprised if you have not tried atleast one of them.

    My currant med regimen for bipolar disorder is lamictal 100mg's and working my way up to 200mg's again, risperidone 1-2mg's, wellbutrin 300mg's and clonazepam 4-6mg's. The clonazepam was prescribed to me for anxiety originally bit it does help with my mania as well. This cocktail helps control my moods without too many side effects at all in fact i barely get any side effects especially from the lamictal.

    I just noticed that you mentioned corciden aka triple c's in your post. I cannot stress enough how dangerous triple c's are and it is not the dextromethorphan that is the danger (though with seroquel god knows what it would do) it is the chlorpheniramine that makes it so dangerous. Also some types of it have acetaminophen (which will shred your liver to bits in high doses) and pseudoephedrine (a decongestant that is a very unpleasant stimulant that in high doses can cause heart attacks and strokes) in them as well. Chlorpheniramine is a anti-histamine and a anti-cholinergic just like diphenhydramine and dimenhydrinate are. So if you are complaining about hallucinations caused by anti-cholinergic medications it is beyond me why you would take triple c's. If you absolutly have to take dextromethorphan get something with no other active ingrediants in it besides DXM.
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    #9
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    Only doing C's this weekend. Then I'm sober. I know the facts about cpm and the other ingredients.
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    #10
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    I'm sort of confused as to if you have been active in your addiction since you left treatment? Did you put any time together?

    If you have any kind of active addiction in addition to psych problems it is literally impossible to tell you what the right course of treatment is. We can't help you, and frankly, neither can your psychiatrists.
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    #11
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    I have an addiction to deliriants. i've been clean since november 5th 2010.

    I just got back from the doc, he didnt take me off quel or cogentin yet, but he added depakote and kapvay. I'm familiar with Depakote, but what is kapvay?
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    #12
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    So you doing C's this weekend is the first time you will be using since Feb 2010?
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    #13
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    Doin C's this weekend is just me gettin high with my highschool buds one last time. After this, i can't talk to them anymore. Not til i'm somewhat stable in my own stuff.
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    #14
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    You will do what you want, but I highly recommend NOT doing C's or anything else. If you haven't done them (which I think is what you are saying) since these new hallucinations have started you don't know if it could make them worse while tripping or after.
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    #15
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    Ok im going to say this again anyway for the sake of harm reduction. corcidin aka triple c's is not a safe way to take dxm in rec doses. If you absolytly have to trip on DXM get something with ONLY DXM in it. Triple c's are very dangerous and since they contain chlorpheniramine (some brands contain acetaminophen and pseudoephedrine too) they can cause all sorts of problems including seizures, cardiac problems and even death.

    So please get something with only DXM in it as there as many products with only DXM. Not to mention many of the DXM only products are also cheaper then corcidin.
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    #16
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    I know C's are dangerous. But i like the strange mindset they put you in. Some combination of the other ingredients has wierd mental effects.

    This is my last dxm trip. I figure i'll do ~40 for a memory of my former lifestyle.
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    #17
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    underestimating what? by doing 40?
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