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Thread: The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread

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    #76
    You would need to weigh and re-weigh it over and over to make sure it is within as close as can be gotten to for example 100mg, then absolutely must be added to liquid, as liquid measurement is the only way it can be accurately measured out, there is no way to ever (even with an expensive milligram scale) weigh out accurate 1mg amounts accurate to within 1mg, you would need a thousand dollar/pound scale bolted to a perfectly flat table with windscreen all around, etc. etc. Liquid measurement is the only option. A tall graduated 50ml or so cylinder is the best way to accurately measure out exactly 50ml of solvent.

    You might try to search for "trappsol" (a brand name given to hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin for research and investigative purposes only, not approved for human consumption).

    Interesting tidbit:
    How does Cyclodextrin Work for Feb*eze?
    Feb*eze is an odour-eliminating product with modified β Cyclodextrin as one of its main ingredients. When Feb*eze is sprayed onto fabrics, the some-what soluble malodour molecules are dissolved in water. This is an essential part of the deodorization process. As a second step, when the solution dries, more and more malodour molecules complex with Cyclodextrin and are effectively retained to keep their concentration in the air low. This total process (water dissolution + complexation) decreases the volatility of the malodour molecules and causes odour elimination. The chemical equilibria involved in the deodorization process are as follows:
    1 solubilization of the volatile compound (G)
    2. complexation with the Cyclodextrin (C)
    3 precipitation of the complex as item dries.
    My Feb*eze bottle saids ingredients: water, alcohol, odor eliminator derived from corn, fragrance. I sprayed some of this on my hands and on a table, it does not leave behind any sticky residue, whereas an extremely sticky residue is left behind when you leave a puddle of HPBCD and water on your hands or on the table, this leads me to believe that there may not be HPBCD in Febreze, but rather some other derivative of cyclodextrin, it's just not sticky, whereas my HPBCD and water or when mixed with etoh and allowed to evaporate leaves a VERY VERY STICKY residue behind. So folks, I'm sorry but it looks like Feb*eze is just not a substitute. The sticky residue eventually gives way (once all the solvent & water has evaporated) to a "glossy looking solid state" with no stickiness.

    amanitadine said:
    There are. And there is one from Erny in the Trip Reports section here. Seems to be his fav N-Benzyl PEA....
    Definately my favorite N-Benzyl PEA as well. I notice that Erny also talks about the hydrophobicity of this molecule and it's ability to reach the brain in a quoted statement on page 1 of this thread. Hydrophobic = loves lipophilic like fat & oils, nonpolar environments but repels water (which is polar).
    Last edited by tregar; 20-08-2011 at 17:35.
     

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    #77
    I had totally forgoten that the book "Psychedelic Information Theory" by James Kent has a chapter on "Psychedelic Receptor Binding". He saids that the substances that have the most Hallucinogenic potency have very high 5-HT2A affinity as well as 5-HT2C affinity...
    TABLE 1 from Kent's book

    In this chart, a value of 4.00 indicates high affinity at that target; any value under 2.00 should be considered imperceptible. From Ray, 2010(3).

    5HT--

    2c-E = 1A (2.91), 1B (3.00), 1D (3.54), 1E (2.60), 2A (3.76), 2B (4.00), 2C [3.38], 5A (0.00), 6 (1.93), 7 (2.77), D1 (0.00)

    2C-B = 1A (2.75), 1B (3.11), 1D (3.71), 1E (3.05), 2A (3.69), 2B (4.00), 2C [3.18], 5A (0.00), 6 (2.63), 7 (2.81), D1 (0.00)

    LSD = 1A (3.73), 1B (4.00), 1D (3.70), 1E (2.62), 2A (3.54), 2B (3.11), 2C (3.11), 5A (3.64), 6 (3.75), 7 (3.70), D1 (2.34)

    DOI = 1A (0.00), 1B (2.31), 1D (3.00), 1E (2.66), 2A (3.44), 2B (3.13), 2C (4.00), 5A (0.00), 6 (2.34), 7 (1.90), D1 (1.67)

    DMT = 1A (0.00), 1B (0.00), 1D (3.91), 1E [3.28], 2A [2.58], 2B (0.00), 2C (3.42), 5A (3.16), 6 (3.35), 7 (4.00), D1 (3.51)

    psilocin = 1A [2.88], 1B (2.19), 1D (3.40), 1E (3.03), 2A (2.14), 2B (4.00), 2C (2.52), 5A (2.83), 6 (2.82), 7 (2.82), D1 (3.37)

    5meodmt = 1A (4.00), 1B (2.41), 1D [3.48], 1E (1.72), 2A [0.98], 2B (0.69), 2C (1.55), 5A (1.84), 6 (2.73), 7 (3.69), D1 [2.38]

    DIPT = 1A (4.00), 1B (0.00), 1D (2.51), 1E (0.00), 2A (0.00), 2B [3.48], 2C (0.00), 5A (0.00), 6 (0.00), 7 (0.00), D1 (0.00)

    mescaline = 1A (3.61), 1B (0.00), 1D (0.00), 1E (3.16), 2A (0.00), 2B (3.97), 2C (0.00), 5A (0.00), 6 (0.00), 7 (0.00), D1 (0.00)

    MDMA = 1A (0.00), 1B (0.00), 1D (0.00), 1E (0.00), 2A (0.00), 2B (3.64), 2C (0.00), 5A (0.00), 6 (0.00), 7 (0.00), D1 (0.00)

    Ray, TS: "Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome". PLoS One. 2010; 5(2): e9019.
    25iNbome has 0.044 affinity for 5-HT2A (the highest ever recorded for a psychedelic, higher than acid even) and 2.0 affinity for 5-HT2C (much higher than acid), this may help explain the wild visuals that I experienced.

    In comparison, mescaline has no affinity for 5-HT2A or 5-HT2C, he saids this explains why it is largely considered a non-visual psychedelic, along with 5-meo-dmt, dipt, and mdma. To me, 25i-nbome is visually more spectacular than acid. I'll go ahead and paste his complete receptor chart table for all the popular psychedelics in just a bit.

    From Nichol's paper:
    The ligand 25i-Nbome had low affinity for most receptors, with the following reported Ki values (nM) for receptors where it had significant affinity: (remember the lower the number, the greater the binding):

    5-HT2a (0.044)
    5-HT2c (2)
    5-HT6 (73, +/-12)
    5-HT2B (231, +/-73)

    u opiate (82, +/-14)
    H1 (189, +/-35)
    kappa opiate (288 +/-50)
    LSD:

    5-HT1A = 1.1
    5-HT1B = 90
    5-HT1D = 11
    5-HT1E = 93

    5-HT2A = 3.5
    5-HT2B = 25
    5-HT2C = 23

    5-HT5A = 7
    5-HT5B = 5
    5-HT6 = 6
    5-HT7 = 6

    d1 = 27
    d2 = 6.4
    d3 = 261
    d4 = 230
    d5 =

    adrenergic = 37
    histamine H1 = 1083

    The significance of 5-HT5A, 5-HT6, and 5-HT7 receptors are unknown, but psychedelic tryptamines such as psilocin or DMT do have significant affinity for 5-HT1A receptors.
    From "Psychedelic Information Theory" by James Kent:
    "Breadth of Psychedelic Receptor Binding

    Table 1 lists the binding strength of popular psychedelic drugs at many 5-HT receptor sites, listed in order of 5-HT2A affinity.(3). This table should be an accurate representation of hallucinogenic potency of various psychedelics in descending order. From subjective reports all substances at the top of this list are very hallucinogenic, but DMT, which is often considered to be the most hallucinogenic, actually falls somewhere in the middle. If we also look at 5-HT2c affinity, which is implicated in hallucination, we can see that all substances at the top of the list also have high 5-HT2C affinity, with DMT and DOI having slightly higher affinity than the rest. 5-HT7 receptor affinity, which stimulates cAMP activity and the reward system, also seems to be implicated in overall transcendent psychedelic action, with the mystically popular DMT, 5-Meo-DMT, and LSD topping the affinity list for these receptors.

    In contrast, there are four non-visual psychedelics at the bottom of the list, 5-Meo-DMT, DiPT, Mescaline, and MDMA. These substances have very poor 5-HT2A, 2C affinity, but all have a high 5-HT2B and adrenal affinity; this indicates they are effective at stimulating serotonin production, cardiovascular activity, and acute sensuality. 5-HT2B affinity is quite high for all samples in this list with the exception of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, making 5-HT2B affinity a good indicator for purely sensual or entactogenic effects. It is interesting to note that DiPT, Mescaline, and 5-MeO-DMT all have a high 5-HT1A affinity, which is generally thought to work in contrast to 5-HT2A agonism to promote well-being and satisfaction. DiPT is unusual because it produces distinct audio hallucinationa and little or no visual hallucinations, and predictably does not bond with 5-HT2A, 2C receptors implicated in visual hallucination.

    By analyzing this affinity table it seems possible to predict the relative potency and effect of any hallucinogen based soley on binding profiles, though the three control molecules at the bottom of the list (6-F-DMT, Lisuride, 4C-T-2) are reportedly non-hallucinogenic despite high 5-HT receptor promiscuity; this is likely because they are not active as agonists, they are antagonists, or their binding profiles are not synergistic and somehow cancel each other out.

    Salvia divinorum interrupts kappa-Opiod tactile sensory pathways; these pathways mediate pain, gravity awareness, and sensation for determining physical orientation in space."
    Interesting as 25i-nbome also agonizes u opiate and kappa-opiate to a small limited degree. This might have explaind my feelings of weightlessness when walking outside in a garden at the peak of one of my first trips.
    Last edited by tregar; 20-08-2011 at 17:36.
     

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    #78
    In comparison, mescaline has no affinity for 5-HT2A or 5-HT2C, he saids this explains why it is largely considered a non-visual psychedelic, along with 5-meo-dmt, dipt, and mdma.
    Bollocks, mescaline has a Ki of 360 (+/- 70) nM at [125I]DOI labelled r5-HT2A receptors, and similar at 2C, according to Nichols in the jimscaline paper. The Ray paper used results from the PDSP, who use antagonists to label the 2A and 2C receptors.
     

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    #79
    Thanks for the info skillet, I had my doubts as well...I've read receptor reports from 3 different sources across various popular psychedelics and there are definately differences reported from each study. This appears to be a gross error in Kent's book. Mescaline is plenty visual (at higher doses) to not only myself but lots of others.
    Last edited by tregar; 20-08-2011 at 04:20.
     

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    #80
    Here is the result of a recent experiment. 2.1 mg of recrystallized 25I-NBOMe hydrochloride was dissolved in 1 mL of water, which went slowly, since the compound was granular. 200 uL of this resulting solution (420 ug) was then applied sublingually with an oral syringe and held for 20 minutes without swallowing. Within 45 minutes, a strong and pleasurable +3 experience resulted. No need for cyclodextrin. Conclusion: The problems with solubility and activity reported above for 25I-NBOMe must be due to the supplier giving the free base instead of the HCl salt.
     

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    #81
    ^ Well that makes sense...
     

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    #82
    Quote Originally Posted by tryp2fun View Post
    recrystallized 25I-NBOMe hydrochloride
    Could you please briefly describe the conditions and solvent that was used for recrystallization?

    TIA!!
     

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    #83
    For recrystallisation, an acetone/IPA cosolvent (1:1) works well, or at least it does for 25C, 25I would be just as applicable I should think. (HCl salts)
     

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    #84
    Quote Originally Posted by tryp2fun View Post
    Here is the result of a recent experiment. 2.1 mg of recrystallized 25I-NBOMe hydrochloride was dissolved in 1 mL of water, which went slowly, since the compound was granular. 200 uL of this resulting solution (420 ug) was then applied sublingually with an oral syringe and held for 20 minutes without swallowing. Within 45 minutes, a strong and pleasurable +3 experience resulted. No need for cyclodextrin. Conclusion: The problems with solubility and activity reported above for 25I-NBOMe must be due to the supplier giving the free base instead of the HCl salt.
    Encouraging information.
    I've been mulling over recrystallizing my material with some Hcl. Even though it was supplied as Hcl, its properties regarding solubility don't seem to jive with that. If it is the freebase, I'd much rather have it as a hydrochloride salt for long term storage of course.
     

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    #85
    Quote Originally Posted by reformer View Post
    Could you please briefly describe the conditions and solvent that was used for recrystallization?

    TIA!!
    The compound was dissolved in a few drops of isopropyl alcohol, acidified with 1 drop of 12 M HCl to be sure that it was the hydrochloride, and diluted with some ether, maybe 1-2 mL, then tightly stoppered. After a day, clear granular crystals had formed and were collected.
     

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    #86
    Bluelighter Thou's Avatar
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    There's some of this going around in blotter form and I've two questions:

    1) If oral/buccal administration seems to be so inefficient for what reason lay on blotter?

    2) Is there a way to isolate the chemical from the blotter somehow (I know this is kind of a stupid questions, I admit I'm no chemistry major)?
     

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    #87
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    There sure is a lot of information about getting this compound to -- maybe -- work sublingually. It's all quite informative, but 25C has been reported to work rectally. It's a good bet 25I will work that way, too. Blotters will also work rectally, no isolation of the compound necessary (stick them in a gel cap beforehand or just lube up the squares and go bareback). As long as you're man enough to get over the unconscionable horror many young male bluelighters' own assholes seem to strike in them, problem solved. If you're not, then, really, what the hell are you doing using unresearched ludicrously potent psychedelics?
     

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    #88
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    My asshole doesn't frighten me.

    This concept is a strange one, I must say. It's like being afraid of your ear drums.
     

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    #89
    So we both had a third experiment in dreams last night. 550ug HPBCD (hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin) complexed drug buccally applied was our most potent to date and kicked both our asses (especially hers), a +4 for her (except lacking spiritually) and an upper +3 for me with only 550ug applied to inner upper lip for 20 minutes, saliva and spit held in mouth for only 15 minutes, then swallowed, while strip allowed to sit an extra 5 minutes under tongue after being transferred. There is a characteristic faint "numbing" sensation of taste felt in the mouth at approximately 20 to 30 minutes after applying blotter that slowly fades away to nothing at the 45 minute point. After the 20 minute blotter soak on upper gum, we transferred it to under the tongue to hold it there for about 5 minutes as well.

    Now, whether you have freebase or hcl 25i-nbome does not matter, as I have done more research and found that the cyclodextrin also increases the penetration and absorption of even hcl bound drug. It is useful for either the freebase or the salt. The cyclodextrin binds or entraps any lipohilic part of the molecule then transfers it easily in the saliva which it can then absorb into (as it has now been made very water soluble), to the surfaces of the mucosal where it then also increases penetration effectiveness many fold, some studies showing 95% absorption in 20 minutes when complexed to the very hydrophobic (water fearing) molecule testosterone. 25i-nbome is also hydro-phobic. HPBCD works miracles on improving the absorption of hydrophobic drugs.

    I've found that it is best NOT to add extra hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin powder on top the blotter piece, as it is not needed, it will only serve to obstruct the entry of the allready HPBCD complexed drug, using "too much" cyclodextrin is not advised. Just as the companie's websites who sell cyclodextrin advise, you want to use neither "too little" nor "too much" but just the right amount. I have found x9 times the CD (cyclodextrin) to drug as the manufacturer suggest to be the perfect amount, although you can use up to x20 the amount of cyclodextrin to drug as well, just don't go sprinkling on extra huge amounts of powder to the allready soaked and complexed blotter piece as I used to do in the past.

    As the alcohol solution of cyclodextrin and drug on blotter dries in front of a fan heater over about a 10 minute period, during the last stages of evaporation, the cyclodextrin fully complexes to the drug, then it is ready for application sublingually (under tongue) or buccally (on upper inner lip).

    anyhow, long ago, 100mg of 25i-nbome had been slowly sprinkled (added over a 5 minute period) to a spinning 100ml of 95% etoh (drinkable alcohol measured out on a tall 100ml volumetric cylinder) on a magnetic stirrer with stir bar. This was allowed to spin 12 hours.....then 900mg of HPBCD powder had been added as well over a 5 minute period, this complete solution was then allowed to spin for an additional 12 hours. Then after spinning, it was put into freezer in a jar, it has been kept like this for a couple months now, no loss of potency and should store like this indefinately. This gave me a soution of 100ug of drug to each 0.1 ml on the 1ml insulin syringe. If I were to mix this again, I would use only 50 ml of 95% etoh to give me a concentration of 200ug of drug per each 0.1ml, so that would mean less alcohol to evaporate from the blotter, meaning half the time to make/evaporate alcohol from blotter.

    1. this was the most potent buccal experiment to date, it came on rapid, within only 1 hour of putting the 1.75" x 5/16" blotter strip above the inner lip (and letting it sit there for 20 minutes), we were both at full effects. I bet putting a square piece of soaked and fully dried blotter under tongue for 15 minutes would be very highly effective as well.

    2. 550ug (0.55)ml of the solution from the jar was sucked up via insulin syringe, and the alcohol solution was slowly deposited back and forth on the blotter strip (similar to a cre*t whitening strip size), the blotter strip was then allowed to dry in front of a holmes fan heater for 10 minutes, it dried rather quickly since no extra cyclodextrin powder was sprinkled on top the blotter. If I were to mix this again, I would use only 50 ml of 95% etoh to give me a concentration of 200ug of drug per each 0.1ml, so that would mean less alcohol to evaporate from the blotter, meaning half the time to make/evaporate alcohol from blotter.

    3. The blotter contained 4.9mg of cyclodextrin from the solution and 550ug of the drug from the solution (as there is x9 the amount of cyclodextrin to drug) remember as mixed above (550 x 9 = 4.9mg of cyclodextrin).

    4. two of these blotter strips were made and each subject applied to upper lip, and it was allowed to adhere to the upper inner lip for 20 minutes, saliva and spit was help that was generated for 15 minutes, then swallowed, but the strip was still allowed to sit on upper inner lip for 5 more minutes.

    5. energy come-up was felt within only 30 minutes, and by 1 hour, full effects were noted, the cyclodextrin-complexed drug came on quite quickly and felt nearly just like it had been nasally administered...the cyclodextrin not only allowed the drug to be absorbed very quickly via sublingual or buccal route, but also caused about 95% of it to be absorbed as opposed to approximately 50% or so normally (non-complexed) imho.

    6. She was at a +4 within 1.5 hour, and I was at an upper +3 by 1.5 hour.

    7. During the come-up her ego was softly relenquished and she lost the sense of who she was and what she was doing for a period, there was anxiety for her during the comeup portion as it was so strong in its effects but after the 2 hour comeup period she felt fully relaxed when all the anxiety had completely passed she told me. I on the other hand did not experience any anxiety as I was used to quite strong mind and come-up states such as this. I remember standing to the side of a mirror at one point and being able to observe myself as well as my reflection "from a third party" perspective which had never happened to me on a psychedelic trip before.

    8. She was experiencing very heavy visuals, invisible smoke billing from the floors into the air, pink and purple colors forming in mid-air, glitter being seen everywhere and energy trails and shooters, patterns seen on skin...when looking into a computer monitor for me, the image on the screen morphed and changed into other things without any need for mind or eye tricks on my part, very similar to my acid tryptamine like visuals with things morphing and changing into other things, energy glitter sparklies were seen darting too and fro the whole time as well, in the other room, things were beginning to expand and shrink and grow. She saw lots of block patterning and geometric formations, it was almost "too visual" during the comeup for her, like walking through air castles of patterns and formations.

    9. Music sounded absolutely outstanding and there was extreme empathy and a dominant euphoria was experienced during the first few hours by myself, it seemed to remind me of my first "E" experience of long ago, extreme empathy and heavy euphoria, just incredible bliss experienced by my self. Looking at TV, ugly faces were experienced as "more grotesque" and beautiful faces and bodies were experienced as "incredibly beautiful" just like with my tryptamine like visuals in the past with other substances. As the anxiety had passed for her, she was having a very enjoyable time, both subjects had a blast after the comeup period till the trip ended. For some reason the visual part of the trip had ended abruptly at only 4.5 hours after applying blotter, could have been that the cyclodextrin caused the drug to be absorbed nearly as fast (but not quite as totally fast) as when it have been nasally applied, so therefore a quicker comeup with a shorter plateau, anyhow, all the trips I have had with this stuff have been different from each one in different ways so I would not expect the length of the trips to always be the exact same either, not to mention I did not sprinkle on an extra 5 to 10mg of cyclodextrin on the blotter first before applying the alcohol/cyclodextrin/drug drops from the insulin needle, so by only using the proper amount of cyclodextrin to begin with (I avoided adding extra CD), the stuff came on rather quickly and with great absorption effectiveness. I'm not quite able to understand how this compound creates the incredible delightful best non-mdma euphoria that it does, but it has done it each time for me, really interesting.


    10. For us to both experience (for her a +4) and for me an upper +3, the buccal cyclodextrin proved extremely effective. Don't add extra cyclodextrin to the blotter before applying, you don't want to overdo it, too much can obstruct effective absorption, but the proper amount used (x 9 times the amount of drug) is perfect, with unbelievable effectiveness. I could never imagine administering this 550ug amount nasally, the buccally applied cyclodextrin complexed stuff had the intensity of nasal allready with the imho same exact absorption effectivness (about 95% is absorbed when complexed to CD (cylodextrin)....I am apt to say "are you kidding....apply this via nasal???, no way!!" it was super potent and VERY intense with CD complxed applied buccally....there is no way I would want to go above this intensity, that would just be insane, the buccal was the most intensity we could both stand as is.

    11. how did it seem like acid and differ from acid?

    1. it had a slightly shorter duration of visual effects (for this trip anyways) due to the rapid absorption sublingually/buccally (quite similar to nasally applied, about exact same absorption percentage as nasal, but came on about 20 minutes later than as a nasally applied trip would begin), the heavy visuals were about 4.5 hours long, with only the headspace of the trip continuing beyond that.

    2. The visuals would be more comparable as erny had stated long ago to the visuals of DOI, however I experienced very tryptamine like visuals (similar to acid visuals) when staring at images, as they would morph and change into other images over and over, with hidden images behind the main image that would form, and they too would morph and change, and so on and so into their own little worlds of visual life. energy glitter and "sparklies" would shoot too and fro constantly when looking at something, energy sparkles, lots of color and beauty and everything looked very alive and full of energy.

    3. All sense of time was lost for both of us and it may have had the visuals of DOI and lots of visuals (similar for me) to acid visuals when staring at things, but the headspace felt like that of the acid headspace for the most part, very enjoyable with overflowing euphoria and empathy, the "human-ness" of humanity was experienced for the duration of the trip, feelings, empathy, connections, emotions amplified and complex. She found the visuals different from acid (for the most part) but she did comment that the headspace was very similar to that of acid headspace as well, but that the trip was way less spiritual for her than an acid trip. She also did not see the same typical mayan/archatypical patterning and imaging as she was used to seeing on acid, she missed seeing those images. Instead she saw way different types of patterning and "blocky/geometric" imaging, strobe flashes, smoke billowing and glitter with lots of purple and pink coloring everywhere. She remarked that she loved seeing the brilliant colored sparkly energized glitter darting around everywhere, and missed it when the visuals ended abruptly for both of us at the 4.5 hour point. I am not surprised at this fact since acid hits a whole dog-gone range of receptor sites along with 5-ht2A, 5-ht2C, 5-ht2B, 5-ht6 that 25i-nbome hits. The 5-ht1 sites which acid hits probably contribute to "well-being and satisfaction (spiritually?)" as opposed to 5-ht2a agonism. mescaline also hits 5-ht1a and 5-ht1e and it is also quite spiritual, I imagine combining a 25i-nbome trip with mescaline would give you tons of spiritual feelings and connections along with adding archetypical imaging (seeing lots of real archatypical images and even myan/tribal images, etc.) along with the typical 25i-nbome images. with eyes closed I saw plenty of movie type images of people going about business as well as fractal patterning. I need to explore the CEV's more in the future, but I was trying to pay attention to her trip more as well, so spent little time with eyes closed. During the 1st 2 hours of the comeup she remarked that the visuals were too much for her, she was relieved when the anxiety passed after 2 hours and the visuals were tolerable and she felt relaxed at last. She did remark that music & all sounds sounded just as extraordinary as it does on acid. At the peak, we both watched our favorite movie, and it was like seeing it for the first time, details were seen that we never paid attention to before, the plot and characters were felt as if we were there in the actors and actresses place sharing the experience with them & being emotionally drawn into their world, just an overall amazing experience, and every little sound and all music heard with crystal clear perception of the highest level, putting together new thoughts in your mind....sensory amplification & sensual enchantment. Never at any point was there any nausea, gastointestinal distress or other physical side effects for either one of us, zero body load as with acid. In contrast to her, with this substance, I enjoyed myself during the entire come-up portion as well, my ego was for the most part intact during the comeup & I had no anxiety, whereas hers was relinquished for a period.

    4. 25i-nbome is "it's own special psychedelic" just as acid is "it's own special psychedelic" but I am extremely grateful that 25i-nbome shares much of the same headspace as acid along with the good humor (we laughed a lot at movies like funny or die, saw 4 episodes) and lots of empathy and euphoria/joy just like with acid. There were complex thoughts and art & music was amplified beyond comprehension, very fun and joyous after the comeup period. One of my previous experiences in dreams with 25i helped me to change certain behaviors and be an even better person, it has good entheogenic life changing qualities that you may not even notice the night of the trip, but may take hold of your thoughts the morning after. It leaves one with no headache the next day, in fact the next morning you have good energy and feel remarkably refreshed (just like a good acid trip) as if the "reset" button has been pressed on your serotonic brain, allowing you to "make a fresh start" and see things from a brand new perspective.
    Last edited by tregar; 29-08-2011 at 23:48.
     

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    Thx 
    #90
    Quote Originally Posted by tryp2fun View Post
    The compound was dissolved in a few drops of isopropyl alcohol, acidified with 1 drop of 12 M HCl to be sure that it was the hydrochloride, and diluted with some ether, maybe 1-2 mL, then tightly stoppered. After a day, clear granular crystals had formed and were collected.
    Sweet. Perfectly succinct, yet detailed description... Just what I was hoping for. Thanks!

    Thanks also mattpsy for the 25C based alternate approach, much appreciated.

    As a side note- Using T2F's buccal drip method with 25D @ 20 and then subsequently 15 ul of a 8.4 ug/ul (mg/ml) solution dropped with a pipette into the buccal zone was very effective for a low dose trial. Blotter not needed, insuff not required for effect. These 160 and 120 ug trials worked great via this method. Effects as expected, liquid insufflation is about 1.5 X stronger of course, but buccal drip ROA avoids the rocket-quick harsh comeup. Will be using this from now on likely.
    Last edited by reformer; 29-08-2011 at 14:22.
     

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    #91
    Interesting erowid report:
    Tears of Joy
    2C-I-NBOMe
    by p3ych0n4ught

    DOSE: T+ 0:00 smoked 2C-I-NBOMe (powder / crystals)
    T+ 0:20 smoked 2C-I-NBOMe (powder / crystals)

    BODY WEIGHT: 185 lb


    After ordering from a reliable vendor I received 1 gram of 25I NBOME as a fluffy white powder. Unaware if this was the salt or freebase I proceeded to do a simple solubility test. The compound proved to insoluble in H20 leading me to believe that it was the freebase. I decided that vaporization would be the most effective route of administration. I had planned to use volumetric measurement but was unable to get the chemical to dissolve after several different attempts. (I later discovered that 25I NBOME freebase is soluble in 91% Isopropyl alcohol) But, this time around I had no accurate way of measuring at a ug dose so I prepared a dose as small as I could (eyeballing a dose this small is not recommended and dangerous). This was vaporized.

    Set: I am in the middle of a cross roads in my life. I was living in the woods/ on the streets for a while and I am trying to make the right decision about reintegrating into society. I recently quit smoking Marijuana, JWH-018, and Cigarettes after long habitual use to try to clear my mind. I have been completely sober 30 days when I decide to take this trip.

    I consider psychedelics to be some of the greatest teachers I have had and I consider myself to have a complex relationship with each I have used. Feeling lost I returned to LSD earlier this year. I went in with an open mind and open heart yet, I heard nothing. All I got was visuals. I turned to DMT and had the exact same experience. It was purely sensory and superficial.

    I seek out a psychologist who is unable to help me see clearly how I can live within a class-based society without compromising my core values of basic human equality.

    Setting: A CRAZY HOT summer day.

    0:00 The smoke had a chemical taste as expected but it was such a small amount of smoke that it was easily forgotten.

    0:01 The onset is quick. I feel euphoric and a sensation similar to previous experiences with 2C-E.

    0:02 I feel a vibrating sensation move through my body. It continues and extends seamlessly to the room I am in as a rippling patter on the walls. Colors are more vibrant and my pupils are dilated.

    0:05 – 0:10 My head space is very clear and I am lucid. The rush subsides and I reach a plateau. I am at a ++.

    0:20 There is no change form 0:10 and I decide to re-dose with the smallest amount I can measure. This dose is vaporized.

    0:21 The vibrating sensation becomes very powerful and the rippling pattern on the walls turns into solid bars of color which create dramatic swirls. I am at a +++. My room looks nothing like what it looks like normally. I can think clearly and decide to listen to some music.

    0:22 The solid bar patterns on the walls begin to dance as I experience strong synesthesia. The proportions of everything in the room grow and shrink with the music. I am experience strong time dilation. The visuals are as intense as previous 500ug LSD trips but lack the geometric patterning. Unlike LSD even with this high level of visual distortion I can still think relatively clearly and continue to preform simple tasks like searching through songs on my iPod.

    0:30 The visual distortion is very intense and music sounds beautiful. The trip seems to plateau again. But, this is not what I seek from this chemical. I see chemicals like this as an extension of the creativity of nature and I am looking to this chemical to help resolve a complex cognitive dissonance within me. ===> I believe we should all live as equals but I am dependent upon a society, that distributes socio/economic power unevenly, for things like health care, and the science that has created this beautiful chemical, and the computer I write this report on. I am disappointed but the trip is still euphoric and up-beat. I accept it for what it is, swirly patterns and bright lights. I don't expect much more.

    0:40 I decide to go for a long walk outside to enjoy the sun. I change clothes and put on my shoes with ease. I am surprised my fine motor skill are as enacted as they are. If I were on LSD or DMT with this level of visual distortion the thought distortion would be to intense for me to walk around much, let alone tie my shoes.

    1:00 Music is beautiful. I am completely content. I walk for another hour.

    2:00 I get back home and realize the trip is still at a solid +++. I take a shower. Every drop of water that hits my body makes a radiant multi colored circle on the wall, ceiling, or floor.

    4:00 I decide to go for another walk.

    5:00 It's dusk, the visuals are beginning to subside. I'm still listening to music when suddenly the euphoria in my body shifts to a powerful empathy. I can suddenly see everything in my life independent of my emotions, fears, hopes, aspirations. It reminds me a lot of MDMA. I realize how distracting the music I’ve been listening to for so long is and I take my headphones out, lay down next to the path I am on and just listen to the world around me. I hear my neighbor's dogs barking and cars driving by. It was like everything I was trying to figure out in my life, my internal monologue, everything just shut down and in thinking about nothing I suddenly understood everything. The tidal pool of emotions and ideas within me was suddenly a placid lake and in that lake I could see myself reflected as I truly was. I simply lay there not happy or sad but completely at peace. I don't know for how long. Time simply did not exist for me.

    Out of 50+ trips I can say that this was one of only 2 times that I have ever reached what I would call a ++++. I realized that I should not spend my life trying to run from the crazy society we live in to live in my own idealized world. Instead I should grow where I am planted and accept the world and its complexities as the divine embodiment of nature's creativity ever evolving. Always as it is meant to be. It was time for me to stop arrogantly imposing my ideals about the way things should be in a world too complex for any one man/woman to understand. To stop trying to change everything around me and instead “be the change I want to see in the world” from where I am.

    Eventually I get up and decide to walk home. My mind is so clear, it's like a chalk board that has just been wiped clean. I start to cry tears of joy for the first time in a long time.

    Sleep came easy that night and I woke up the next morning feeling refreshed.

    This experience ended a powerful depression I had been in instantaneously. I don't know how and I can't explain it. It just happened. This chemical has changed my life.


    Exp Year: 2010
    I can fully relate to what happened to him, my 2nd experience with this psychedelic gave me a wake up call the next morning to stop abusing a stimulant (which I have since not abused again), which I was able to do for the first time in half a year, it also caused me to change several other of my behaviors for the better, no nonsense yet gentle in its approach.
    Last edited by tregar; 30-08-2011 at 16:00.
     

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    #92
    wow, those are both beautiful reports. Tregar, thank you so much for your work regarding the complexation. You have set my expectations for this chem so high though!
     

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    #93
    Thanks JBrandon

    One final word:

    I have a feeling that combining this stuff with mescaline will give a trip that is extremely close to acid in many ways, however, 25i feels so darn close allready, or is so special in its own way that it really doesn't need anything to "complete it". However, mescaline hits the receptors that 25i lacks, and 25i hits the receptors that mescaline lacks...in other words, they overlap with remarkable precision. 25i is allready the closest thing to acid I've ever exprienced, I just feel that 25i needs a little extra "spiritual push" to complete it....If you get spiritual feelings from the extreme empathy and euphoria that 25i produces, then there is no need for mescaline, but if you really want to push the envelope, then mescaline is the ticket.

    Kent's book "psychedelic information theory" states the following in general terms:

    * 5-HT1 affinity is generally thought to work in contrast to 5-HT2A agonism to promote well-being and satisfaction. Mescaline, 5-MEO-DMT, DIPT, LSD all have a high 5-HT1 affinity. Mescaline hits (5-HT1A at 3.61, note this value is from an inverse chart, where 4.0 indicates maximum affinity), LSD hits (5-HT1A at 1.1, this is from the ki chart where 0.0 indicates maximum affinity). Mescaline hits (5-HT1E at 3.16, this is from the ki chart where 4.0 indicates maximum affinity). LSD hits (5-HT1E at 2.62, this is from the ki chart where 4.0 indicates maximum affinity). 25i lacks affinity for 5-HT1A and 5-HT1E.

    * 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are the most important receptors that all the main psychedelics hit, with the most potent psychedelics hitting them real hard...they are implicated in extreme visual activity and complex thinking. 25i-nbome hits these two receptors (5HT2A & 5-HT2C) harder than any other psychedelic out there. 25i hits (5-HT2A at 0.044) and hits (5-HT2C at 2.0), LSD is only able to hit (5HT2A at 3.5) and hits (5-HT2C at only 23.0). The lower the ki value, the greater the receptor binding.

    * 5-HT2B is implicated with purely sensual or entactogenic effect. 25i hits (5-HT2B at 231), and LSD hits (5-HT2B at 25). Mescaline hits (5-HT2B at 3.97, this is from the inverse chart with 4.00 indicating maximum affinity). MDMA hits (5-HT2B at 3.64, this is from the inverse chart with 4.00 indicating maximum affinity).

    DiPT, Mescaline, and MDMA have very poor 5-HT2A, 2C affinity, but all have a high 5-HT2B and adrenal affinity, cardiovascular activity, and acute sensuality. 5-HT2B affinity is quite high for all theses.

    * 5-HT6 is implicated with ??? 25i hits (5-HT6 at 73.0), LSD hits (5-HT6 at 6.0).

    * 5-HT7 is implicated with reward activity and overall transcendent psychedelic action, with the mystically popular DMT, 5-MEO-DMT, and LSD topping the affinity list for this receptor. LSD hits (5-HT7 at 6.0). Now neither 25i nor mescaline hit 5-HT7.

    * adrenal-2a receptor is hit by mescaline at 2.92 (inverse chart), whereas LSD hits adrenal-2a at 2.93 (inverse chart), very similar.

    * adrenal-2c receptor is hit by mescaline at 4.00 (inverse chart, maximum value), whereas MDMA hits adrenal-2c receptor at 3.21.

    * 25i does not hit any of the adrenal receptors.

    adrenal affinity is implicated (along with 5-HT2B) with effectivenss at stimulating serotonin production, cardiovascular activity, and acute sensuality.

    So in other words, mescaline will target 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E and 5-HT2B receptors with extreme affinity....and the 25i will target the 5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, 5-HT6, and 5-HT2B with great affinity. Mescaline fills in the spiritual well-being and satisfaction void, and 25i fills in the extreme visual activity and complex thinking. Mescaline by also targeting the 5-HT2B receptor with even greater intensity than 25i, contributes to even greater increased sensual and entactogenic effect. Now, 25i is very empathogenic and sensual all on it's own, imho appearing in the trips I've had to be near equal to mdma in the euphoria it produces mentally, and 25i goes even deeper & feeling more natural than the substance mdma.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    So by adding mescaline along with 25i, we get the following:

    5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT6, adrenal-2a, adrenal-2c
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Mescaline overlaps 25i perfectly, filling in the gaps needed while 25i overlaps mescaline filling in the gaps perfectly as well.

    The only thing of importance really missing is 5-HT7 agonism, which LSD hits at 6.0 (regular ki chart, where 0.0 = maximum affinity)...5-HT5A, 5-HT5B, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, d1, d2 are the other receptors that acid hits, but little is known about the significance of these.

    Take this all with a grain of salt, as psychedelic information theory is purely theoretical at this point.
    Last edited by tregar; 02-09-2011 at 03:08.
     

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    #94
    Bluelighter
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    Here's the link to Kent's book for reference.
     

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    #95
    Thanks psood0nym, good link.
     

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    #96
    So lately I have been seeing some reports, or people mentioning, that they grinded their teeth (bruxism) or had tight jaws when tripping on NBOMEīs........

    Iīm having some 25I on itīs way to me, as I think it sounds very intriguing, but I am VERY susceptible to bruxism, in a manner that taking a drug that causes it, can make me grind my teeth in my sleep for days or weeks.

    I donīt grind my teeth, on say, DPT or LSD, but I have sometimes felt a "lessening of control" of the jaw muscle on these substances. Like the jaw sometimes makes small involuntary movements or jerks.

    How bad do you people find the bruxism on NBOME`s? in particular 25I.
    Can you compare it to any other drug, in that regard?
     

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    #97
    Bluelighter
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    Somebody has right , I'm starting to believe that I dont received HCL only freebase! This would explain why I could not dissolve this in any solvent and why it was inactive intransally , I hope that HPBCD solve trouble with this . Seller mistake? unawareness ? On MSDS was wrotten that its HCL .

    After ordering from a reliable vendor I received 1 gram of 25I NBOME as a fluffy white powder. Unaware if this was the salt or freebase I proceeded to do a simple solubility test. The compound proved to insoluble in H20 leading me to believe that it was the freebase
    I think that I got this same stuff
     

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    #98
    Bluelighter Help?!?!'s Avatar
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    I have TMJ and didn't seem to notice any extra jaw clenching than normal from other phens. I did take 10 mgs Baclofen though because I had a tight jaw already from grinding my teeth the night previous. I certainly didn't notice it reaching a MDMA level or anything though my results are slightly skewered and noted no abnormal tightness in the jaw the morning following which usually means I probably didn't grind much during the night. This was with 25C BTW. Will probably have more information at my disposal coming up. Though i'm sure someone can help you by then.
     

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    #99
    Thanks for the reply, Help?!?! Yes, I canīt really see any reason the NBOMeīs should be more stimulating than their 2C counterpart. Then again, pharmacology is supposed to be totally different so.....

    Kind of off-topic, but itīs very interesting with the Baclofen. Do you get it prescribed from your doctor?
    I guess you just use it as temporary relief, and not as something you take everyday, right?
    I sometimes use Clonazepam against bruxism, but I actually hate being drowsy. And itīs not very convenient during the week, with work and stuff. It does work though.

    Itīs kind of strange that Baclofen has similar mechanism of action as GHB, which is known to cause nocturnal bruxism in it self. Actually my problems with nightly grinding really started seriously, after a combined GHB and amphetamine binge a couple of years back.

    I really canīt recommend that combination, but of cause, everybodies MMW
     

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    neither one of us had any grinding teeth whatsoever on 550ug of 25i....according to Kent's book, 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C agonism will always stimulate blood pressure to some slight degree....so you might notice a slight increase in blood pressure or pulse rate early on during trip. As far as I could tell, there was zero body load, and noticed only a slight increase in pulse rate, but other than that, nothing. other subject did not notice increase in blood pressure or pulse rate. Acid at high doses also causes slight increase in blood pressure/pulse rate early on during the trip for me as well.

    Psykap, according to my cyclodextrin research, HPBCD will complex to either freebase or the HCL, it doesn't matter, it REALLY super increases the absorption of the freebase, so be thankful for that, if you do have the freebase. According to the research, the cyclodextrin also increases the HCL solubility as well, by increasing the penetration factors, so either way you come out ahead, with the hcl form of the drug, any lipohilic portion of the molecule still gets entrapped to the inside of the cyclodextrin cage according to one of the papers I read (see links given earlier).

    Think of it this way, testosterone freebase has only 0.033mg per 1ml solubility in water, in other words it just floats on top water and will not mix, however, once you complex testosterone freebase powder to HPBCD, then it becomes 100% water soluble, instantly dissolving into water that had the cyclodextrin dissolved in it (becoming fully complexed after about 1 hour of stirring). Study by Dr. Pitha showed 95% absorption of cyclodextrin complexed testosterone freebase in as little as 20 minutes when applied sublingually under tongue.

    I could not even imagine using 550ug via nasal, the HPBCD complexed 550ug of 25i was super intense when used buccally (upper lip for 20 minutes, then put under tongue for 5 minutes)....to go above the intensity we experienced would be insane, full effects were felt at the 1 hour point, peak effects at 1.5 hour, cyclodextrin complexed stuff is very potent when used sublingually (under tongue) or buccally (in the mouth between cheek and gum). It had the visual intensity of about 200ug of acid for several hours, the visual effects lasted about 5 hours, with only the headspace remaining after that, the total trip is a couple hours less than an acid trip.

    For more instructions on how to complex using 95% drinkable alcohol or even vodka, just re-read my latest trip report, detailed instructions there. to complex 100mg of 25i, you need to first dissolve x9 the amount of cyclodextrin to drug, so you add 900mg of HPBCD to the 50ml of alcohol, stir it 8 hours, then at the 8 hour point, slowly sprinkle in 100mg of your nbome over the course of about 5 to 10 minutes (slowly)....then let it spin for 12 hours overnight, then remember that when you draw up 0.2ml of the solution (each 0.1ml = 200ug drug), you will get 400ug of drug when the 0.2ml of alcohol solution is dropped onto a square blotter, allow it to dry in front of a fan heater for 10 minutes or more until COMPLETELY dry, only in the very last stages of alcohol evaporation does the drug become fully complexed to the cyclodextrin, then and only then (when it is fully dry) will it be ready for sublingual (under tongue) or buccal application. This is just one way of doing it. 50ml of liquid mentioned above should only be measured out on a tall graduated volumetric cylinder for accuracy.

    Concerning alcohol(30 to 95 percent)/water mixture vs water:

    water works excellent. Even vodka works. If you use anything with alcohol in it, then the solution when put on a blotter must be fully evaporated all the way until it is completely dry, only in the very last stages of the evaporation of the alcohol does the drug get entrapped inside the CD (cyclodextrin)...for more information on how this happens, see the study quoted above from Dr. Pitha. Notice the 2nd paragraph of the paper above where it starts out with the word "Surprisingly..." The nice thing about alcohol solutions is that they can be frozen and yet not freeze, so the solution can be pulled out without having to unthaw it, so it's handy for long term storage at cold conditions.

    With a water solution, that is an excellent choice as the complex forms "in solution" after only several hours of spinning (give it about 8 to 12 hours to spin)...this can be stored frozen as well, but will have to be "dethawed" when some is needed, or can be stored in fridge (no dethaw needed)....I would be careful about the solution growing bacteria over time however since there is no alcohol in the solution to prevent bacterial growth, not to mention that when the water solution is dropped on a blotter it will take much longer time for the water to evaporate in front of a fan heater...however, the pure water method would work excellent if your idea was to make several blot pieces all at once for personal researcher study, then once they were dry could be stored away. However, as always none of this stuff is approved for human use, only scientific research.

    Remember that if you use water, you want to dissolve the cyclodextrin powder in the water first, let it stir for some time (say several hours), then slowly sprinkle in your substance over a 5 to 10 minute period, you should find that the substance will then easily dissolve in water, allow this to stir a good 12 hours. The cyclodextrin makes the substance water soluble as it complexes in solution.

    * With a water solution, the drug and cyclodextrin complex while IN solution after 12 hours of stirring...after application on a blotter, it is of course fully complexed even while still wet, or when dry....However, with a water/alcohol solution, the drug and cyclodextrin complex completely only after application on a blotter when it is fully dry (complexes only during the final stages of alcohol evaporation).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    * No personal researcher should be messing with this stuff unless they own a magnetic stirrer, stir bar, tall graduated cylinder, and an insulin syringe, and most importantly a .001 accurate scale. Without any of these items spells disaster...and probably soon to follow emergency scheduling....and remember none of this is approved for human use.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by tregar; 03-09-2011 at 14:53.
     

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