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The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread

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Concerning absorbing from blotting paper, it's been a while since I used a few 4-substituted derivatives of N-(2-methoxy)benzyl-2,5-dimethoxyPEAs as it was last October. But I remember quite well that a low dose of 25I-NBOMe worked very well this way. I always use a toothbrush before applying any blotter to get rid of dead epidermis. And I agree with the opinion above that it doesn't have to be anything complex on a blotting paper for 25I-NBOMe to work (with this one I had 0.5mg pieces of HCl salt and it was very visual).

I don't have any experience with other ROAs for comparison and I don't plan on doing any 25x-NBOMe anytime soon. Besides the only method I can think of is snorting and snorting 0.5mg is very impractical so making a nasal spray would be the way to go because I'd imagine the amount of something that I'd have to add for snorting purposes would both slow down and diminish absorption. Injecting 2,5-dimethoxyPEAs intravenously is a bit harsh. I wonder how it feels with 25x-NBOy compounds (where x is any halo or alkyl group and y is -OMe or -OH).
 
If you have access to micropipettes (accurate ones) or insulin syringes it's quite easy to practically dose nbomes nasally. I dissolved my 75mg 25i-nbome in 5mL of 40% vodka to make a 15mg/mL solution and using an insulsin syringe only had to dose .06mL of vodka into my nose with an insulin syringe that had the tip cut off. This amount of liquid is absolutely miniscule and did not burn even remotely as much as insufflating a 2c-x chemical and none of the solution was lost in my nose.

If you'd like to use water (which I'm not sure you can super concentrate as such) or do not have access to such measuring tools, however, then nasal may not be practical, but rectal should be a completely practical ROA.
 
My wife and I both find sublingual to be the best ROA. At first we tried 650ug, it was nice but it wasnt strong enough and didn't last as long as we would have liked. We have settled on 1.3mg to 1.6mg as the perfect dose. We were also really surprised to discover that redosing was really effective. We were able to effectively redose 650ug every 3 hours. It brought the effects back to full strength all 3 times over the course of the night. (we initially took 1.3mg each).by this method, we had effects from thirty minutes after placing it on the gums at 3:30 until about 7:30 when the effects wore off. We each took another 650ugs at about 8:00 with nearly full effects returning by 8:30. This time we did not wait for the effects to disappear completely and redosed at about 10:00. Effects were almost completely gone by 2:00. Three doses (1.3mg, 650ug, 650ug) lasted ten hours. Overall very impressive product, and our new official favorite! No negative feelings, deep ab-aching laughter, and incomprehensible beauty and awe. It's fantastic stuff.
 
What ROAs did you compare?

My wife and I both find sublingual to be the best ROA.

What other ROAs did you attempt?

With regards the other ROAs you tried, can you please give us some qualitative, quantitative and timeline comparisons between these multiple ROAs?

Specifically, did you try liquid insufflation, and what differences did you note from sublingual/buccal?


.06mL of [NBOME in 40%] vodka into my nose

water (which I'm not sure you can super concentrate [to 15 mg/ml])

Yep, that volume is what I have stuck with in the past. 0.03 ml in each side. Works wonders!! Haven't NBOMe'd in a while, but the art of ROA was seemingly perfected with the volume you describe using liquid insufflation ROA.

From what I've seen, you can get most NBOMe (even the hydrophobic ones like 25I and 25E) to ~8 mg/ml in distilled water, which means that you can get 500 ug per 0.06 ml. Running a second insufflation after ~10 mins (the first has fully absorbed by then) will bring the total exposure to ~1 mg... Which is plenty in most cases.
 
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Vaporizing this substance is absolutely insane. It'll get you to an incredibly strong +++ in less than a minute.
 
Then I can't say I'm very surprised - that's a solid dose and plugging is an effective ROA.

My recommendation for vaping would be to have a dilute solution, 100ug per ml, and place 1ml at a time into a bulb-type vaporiser. Use a small candle to vapourise (save your thumb! and you have incredibly good dose control, easily able to gauge what sort of level you like.

It works better if the solvent is mostly alcohol, and less solvent is obviously preferable.
 
My wife and I both find sublingual to be the best ROA. At first we tried 650ug, it was nice but it wasnt strong enough and didn't last as long as we would have liked. We have settled on 1.3mg to 1.6mg as the perfect dose. We were also really surprised to discover that redosing was really effective. We were able to effectively redose 650ug every 3 hours. It brought the effects back to full strength all 3 times over the course of the night. (we initially took 1.3mg each).by this method, we had effects from thirty minutes after placing it on the gums at 3:30 until about 7:30 when the effects wore off. We each took another 650ugs at about 8:00 with nearly full effects returning by 8:30. This time we did not wait for the effects to disappear completely and redosed at about 10:00. Effects were almost completely gone by 2:00. Three doses (1.3mg, 650ug, 650ug) lasted ten hours. Overall very impressive product, and our new official favorite! No negative feelings, deep ab-aching laughter, and incomprehensible beauty and awe. It's fantastic stuff.

so, did you have the salt or the freebase?
 
IamMe90 said:
If you have access to micropipettes (accurate ones) or insulin syringes it's quite easy to practically dose nbomes nasally. I dissolved my 75mg 25i-nbome in 5mL of 40% vodka to make a 15mg/mL solution and using an insulsin syringe only had to dose .06mL of vodka into my nose with an insulin syringe that had the tip cut off. This amount of liquid is absolutely miniscule and did not burn even remotely as much as insufflating a 2c-x chemical and none of the solution was lost in my nose.

rdbomd said:
My wife and I both find sublingual to be the best ROA. At first we tried 650ug, it was nice but it wasnt strong enough and didn't last as long as we would have liked. We have settled on 1.3mg to 1.6mg as the perfect dose.

SONN said:
Vaporizing this substance is absolutely insane. It'll get you to an incredibly strong +++ in less than a minute.

I've got one question relating to all of you. How long did it last intranasally/sublingually/inhaled compared to oral ROA and what doses are equipotent (subjectively of course)? What was the difference in time concerning the onset of effects? I was disappointed generally with the length of effects, NBOMe's compounds don't really differ much in duration of action for me than 2C-x compounds.
 
They have roughly the same duration as 2c-x drugs, I don't know why this is disappointing as 2c-i lasts a good 8-10 hours. Also, 25i-nbome is not orally active.

Onset of effects nasal and rectal is approximately 5 min. for first alerts and 15-20 min. to peak I observed. Sublingual, the first alerts are experienced after around 30 minutes and peak effects are experienced at 1 to 1 and a half hours in my experience.
 
Have a couple of questions. First I am working with 25i freebase I don't not have access or plan to using a complexing agent. If I add white vinegar directly to the freebase in a 1:1 ratio I heard it will make 25i acetate, is 25i acetate bioavailable sublingually or nasally? Also can u plug the freebase? I know that the freebase form is best for evaporation, but plugging, snorting, and sublingual aren't all those transfer to the bloodstream through mucus membranes.
 
these compounds when hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed come on very fast when placed under tongue and held there for 20 minutes, this being discovered to come on much faster then when the same HPBCD complexed material placed buccally (inbetween teeth and gums on upper lip). When placed under tongue, remember to hold in any saliva (don't swallow) for at least 15 minutes, the whole tongue usually goes numb after about 10 minutes of holding the nbome under tongue, indicating that the cyclodextrin complexed material is absorbed very quickly (in less than 15 minutes). However, it is still best to hold it under tongue for the entire 20 minute duration. When held under tongue, usually within 30 minutes a strong ramping up can be felt, and 1 to 1.5 hour after first being placed under tongue, the trip is fully underway. The cyclodextrin complexed material always deliver the exact same strength-based experience depending on dosage, there is no swaying to and from in dosage from month to month (non-complexed material placed under tongue), as each cyclodextrin complxed dose is absorbed fully 95% within 20 minutes. Contrary to popular belief, cyclodextrins also have been found to enhance the absorption of even hcl salted materials. So freebase or hcl salt, it makes no difference, it will work well for both.
 
I'm taking a 600ug cyclodextrin complexed dose tonight without anything in combination just to go back and re-visit this remarkable material fully on it's own. Even all on it's own, this material is so much like acid. In the midst of the trip right now...The mindspace is joyous, overflowing empathy and empathogenisis, remarkable humor, beautiful visuals and audial, the music is blowing me away and the mind trip is absolutely fascinating. I'm finding this 600ug journey to be extremely visual and deep, I am deeply impressed. I'm hitting myself over the head for not taking a larger dose of this long ago. Yes indeed, this is the "DMT of the phenethylamine world" as Erny so eloquently described it.
 
When Vaporized, this compound comes on in an instantaneous fashion, kind of similar to DMT. The main difference in the duration is that the peak lasts almost an hour then the comedown is quite a few hours. I vaped an unknown amount of 25i freebase and it was much too intense of a peak for me but after about 40 minutes my mind was more clearheaded and I was glowing with Euphoria. The plateau lasted like upwards of 5 hours after that but after like the 2 hour mark they were at a ++. The visual effects were really beautiful but I had a bad set and setting and dosage and all that. I would really recommend someone taking a really small dose then listen to their favorite album or something like that it would probably be awesome.
 
There is a long tail to this one. Main effects were down much more quickly than I expected, but there is some activity present and sleep isn't possible hours after the plateau has long passed.

Edit: I would also like to add that if you are hoping to avoid the 2C-x stomach distresses, well, you might be disappointed.
 
As much as we both fully enjoyed the solo 600ug cyclodextrin complexed 25i last night, we both felt it still needed the addition of the 300mg of mescaline (like we normally do) to give us the entire all-encompassing 100% mind-manifesting effect, the 5-HT1 agonism provided by the mescaline just adds the finishing touches to the extraordinary 25i state--the 2 together are Heaven, the full Monty, the full acid experience with nothing missing, i had run out of mescaline, but soon look forward to adding it back into the mix. The visuals/audio/high spiritual states are also magnified into the archaic realm of the Other World with the mescaline addition, changing the wavelength of the whole experience into glorious hyper-dimensional realms. I would think other 5-HT1 agonist could be added (in place of mescaline if not available) at very low doses like 4-aco-dmt, dipt, etc. to give the same effects that the addition of low-dose mescaline supplies.

If there is anything I learned dosage wise, it's that I need to increase the dosage of the 25i with the additions of the 300mg of mescaline in the future (to levels around 550ug to 600ug), perhaps even increasing the mescaline to 350mg in combination as well. The blood pressure reducing effects from the 5-HT1 agonism provided by the mescaline also counteract the 5-HT2A stimulating agonism provided by the 25i, so it's all very good in combo, yin & yang. The 5-HT1 agonism from the mescaline also contributes a beautiful calm introspective laid-back meditative state to the entire trip. For example: "Buspar" is a common 5-HT1 medically created agonist with meditative and calming properties, these calming effects added to a 25i trip are very strong with the addition of the potent 5-HT1A & 5-HT1E psychedelic agonist mescaline. LSD & psilocin are also very strong 5-HT1 agonist, even stronger in this regards then it's 5-HT2A agonism.

will be doing some experiments in the future combining 25i with (very low dose) 4-aco-dmt, the reports I read indicate it has spiritual, trancelike/sedative activity, and the receptor data for psilocin (closing related) shows it is a potent 5-HT1 agonist and even potent dopamine agonist, this will fare very well in combination with 25i, adding to it just what it needs, the missing 5-HT1/dopamine agonism.

5-HT1 agonist "shut off serotonin firing" which appears imho to be an important contribution to the psychedelic state, else one becomes consumed in obsessive compulsive thought patterns, inattention and a tendency to hyperactivity when they could rather be engrossed in the meditative mind-manifesting thought process of a full-spectrum psychedelic. HPBCD is still available as "trappsol" and many other brand names, search and ye shall find.
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All of the natural God/nature made psychedelics like psilocybin, semi-synthetic LSD, mescaline antagonize the 5-HT1 recptors, it is crucial to the 100% mind-manifesting activity of all the "classic" psychedelics and what seperate them from many of the man-made psychedelics like DOI, DOM, DOC, 25i, 25c, etc. But this can be recaptured with no effort just by adding a low dose of mescaline into the mix, it doesn't take much, only 250 to 300mg.

The 5-HT1 receptors make up the largest proportion of 5-HT receptors in the brain, it is crucial to target these receptors as well as the 5-HT2 subclass (which are considered the main power "on" switch to psychedelic activity).

25i agonizes the following receptors [the lower the number, the greater the affinity]
5-HT2A (0.044), 5-HT2C (2), 5-HT6 (73), 5-HT2B (231), u opiate (82), kappa opiate [288]

mescaline agonizes the following receptors [4.00 = maximum affinity, 0.00 = no affinity]:
Alpha2c (4.00), 5-HT2B (3.97), 5-HT1A (3.61) Imidazoline1 (3.44), 5-HT1E (3.16), alpha 2a (2.92) and very poorly agonizes 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C.

So in other words, 25i-nbome + mescaline looks like this as far as affinity agonism (compare to the receptor affinity data from "LSD" from wikipedia, to see how similar the combination of mescaline + 25i is to LSD):

5-HT2A, Alpha2c, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT6, u opiate, kappa opiate, Imidazoline1, alpha2a.

"This trip of mescaline + 25i (4 hours later) is so %%!$%$ beautiful !!! I could just cry tears of happiness. I love this just as much as acid." (From one of my many mescaline + 25i trip reports).
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When we take the combination, we will divided the mescaline hcl into 3 seperate 100mg doses, spaced 1/2 hour apart, we will take the 25i under the tongue for 20 minutes right after dropping the 2nd of the mescaline doses, we time the doses this way to minimize any nausea from the mescaline, and so that the 25i dosage will hit at the same time as the mescaline is coming on. The 3rd or last of the mescaline doses is taken 1/2 hour after the 2nd mescaline dose was dropped.

When I close my eyes when both doses are peaking, I tend to see spinning bright neon colored mathmatically perfect geometrics, later progressing into actual scenes of foreign places of un-imaginable beauty with gardens and architecture and artwork, these forms are perfect in every way, shaped by the hands of God, the "Other World" far beyond our own, the scenes are ever changing and there is a theme to each trip, and a guiding force that teaches. If you play music while you are watching these visions, the scenes change and sync along with the music, incredibly beautiful. You see very deeply into yourself, you see ways to change yourself for the better, there is spiritual and mystical revelations, I usually end up crying in happiness. A gratuitous grace, not necessary for Salvation, but greatly accepted, Very Sacred.

Thomas Ray's paper is a fairly good resource for psychedelic receptor data, good way to hunt down other 5-HT1 agonist if mescaline is not available:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0009019

Other compounds that would work in place of mescaline to hit lots of the 5-HT1 receptors and even the transcendental 5-HT7 (5-HT6 hit by 25i is quite similar) receptor are:

5-MEO-DMT
5-MEO-MIPT
4-ACO-DIPT

However, many of the above compounds are illegal in many countries

other options:

4-ACO-DMT (looks like a great candidate in very low dose, else make this dose larger and 25i dose very low)

etc.

In countries where the above are not illegal? should really consider theoretically taking advantage of adding some potent low-dose 5-HT1 agonist into the 25i-nbome mix, this difference is like night and day, it is sooooo much better, if you love LSD trips (100% mind manifesting) you will love combining the nbome with 5-HT1 agonist, LSD also hits a large amount of the 5-HT1 receptors, see below.

4.00=maximum affinity for the receptor site:

5-MeO-DMT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.69 5ht7, 3.48 5ht1d, 2.73 5ht6, 2.41 5ht1b, 2.38 D1, 1.84 5ht5a, 1.72 5ht1e, 1.58 D3, 1.57 Alpha2C, 1.55 5ht2c, 1.00 Alpha2A, 0.98 5ht2a, 0.97 SERT, 0.88 Imidazoline1, 0.86 Alpha2B, 0.82 NET, 0.78 D4, 0.73 D2, 0.69 5ht2b; 0.00: Alpha1B, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, D5, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, CB2, KOR, Ca+Channel, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H2, CB1; ND: H1, DOR, MOR, NMDA
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Mescaline: 4.00 Alpha2C, 3.97 5ht2b, 3.61 5ht1a, 3.44 Imidazoline1, 3.16 5ht1e, 2.92 Alpha2A; 0.00: 5ht2a, 5ht2c, 5ht6, 5ht1d, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, Alpha1A, Alpha1B, 5ht5a, Alpha2B, 5ht7, Beta1, Beta2, SERT, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
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Psilocin: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.40 5ht1d, 3.37 D1, 3.03 5ht1e, 2.88 5ht1a, 2.83 5ht5a, 2.82 5ht7, 2.82 5ht6, 2.67 D3, 2.52 5ht2c, 2.19 5ht1b, 2.14 5ht2a, 1.77 Imidazoline1, 1.74 SERT, 1.57 Alpha2B, 1.36 Alpha2A, 1.03 Alpha2C; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D4, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, NET, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, Ca+Channel, H1, H2, CB2, CB1; ND: M5, NMDA
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5-MeO-MIPT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.79 5ht7, 3.74 5ht1d, 3.32 5ht2b, 2.98 5ht6, 2.85 Alpha2A, 2.61 5ht1b, 2.44 5ht2a, 2.29 Alpha2C, 2.15 Imidazoline1, 2.13 Sigma2, 2.11 5ht5a, 1.86 Alpha2B, 1.75 5ht2c, 1.70 D3, 1.55 5ht1e, 1.41 H1, 1.29 D4, 1.28 SERT; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D1, Beta2, NET, DAT, Sigma1, Beta1, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, NMDA, Ca+Channel; ND: CB1
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DIPT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.53 Imidazoline1, 3.48 5ht2b, 2.98 SERT, 2.83 Sigma1, 2.68 Alpha2C, 2.65 Sigma2, 2.62 Alpha2B, 2.56 D3, 2.55 5ht7, 2.53 H1, 2.51 5ht1d; 0.00: 5ht2a, D4, 5ht5a, D1, D2, Alpha2A, 5ht6, D5, Beta1, Beta2, 5ht2c, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Alpha1B, 5ht1e, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
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LSD: 4.00 5ht1b, 3.77 5ht7, 3.75 5ht6, 3.73 5ht1a, 3.70 5ht1d, 3.64 5ht5a, 3.54 5ht2a, 3.16 D3, 3.11 5ht2b, 3.11 5ht2c, 2.93 Alpha2A, 2.62 5ht1e, 2.55 D2, 2.39 D4, 2.34 D1, 2.05 D5, 1.54 Alpha1A, 1.40 H1, 1.39 Beta1, 1.05 Beta2, 0.65 Alpha1B; 0.00: KOR, DOR, DAT, SERT, MOR, NET; ND: Sigma2, Alpha2B, Alpha2C, Imidazoline1, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Sigma1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
-----------------------
For example:

25i-nbome agonizes the following receptors [the lower the number, the greater the affinity]
5-HT2A (0.044), 5-HT2C (2), 5-HT6 (73), 5-HT2B (231), u opiate (82), kappa opiate [288]

mescaline agonizes the following receptors [4.00 = maximum affinity, 0.00 = no affinity]:
Alpha2c (4.00), 5-HT2B (3.97), 5-HT1A (3.61) Imidazoline1 (3.44), 5-HT1E (3.16), alpha 2a (2.92)

therefore, mescaline + 25i looks like:

5-HT2A, Alpha2c, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT6, u opiate, kappa opiate, Imidazoline1, alpha2a.

*** Also note that 25i-nbome is the most potent 5-HT2A agonist discovered, 5-HT2A agonism while being highly visual & holding high behavioral & empathogenic characteristics, also causes a bit of low level stimulation & raises blood pressure, 5-HT1 agonism on the other hand lowers blood pressure, shuts down serotonin firing, and has a meditative, serene, tranquil, calming quality, so combining the two serves a yin & yang purpose, to balance each other out. 5-HT1 receptors make up the majority of the 5-HT receptors in the brain, so if you don't antagonize them, you're never gonna get that 100% mind-manifesting psychedelic trip, all of the natural God/Nature made psychedelics antagonize the 5-HT1 receptors.

I would never combine 25i with LSD because LSD is allready a very potent 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C receptor agonist. 25i is 100 times more potent at the 5-HT2A site than even LSD! This was shown by Nichols in his paper on 25i.

4-aco-dmt sounds like it will fully replace mescaline in combination with 25i, so long of course as the 4-aco-dmt dose is kept moderate in comparison to an added in very low dose of 25i, this ensures that all the 5-HT1 receptors are hit with more strength then the 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are hit, ensuring that it will give psychedelic effects very similar to LSD, LSD also hits 5-HT1 and 5-HT7 and 5 other receptors with way more strength than 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are hit, this ensures a mind-manifesting trip that is the opposite of an "in your face" trip which so often occurs with many synthetic man-made psychedelics like DOC, DOI, DOM, 2-CE, etc. which way overstress 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C over anything else, this in turn can cause lack of spiritual insight, too much body load, too much and run-away stimulation in comparison to sedating tranquil qualities, difficult trips, etc.

25i-nbome recaptures the overflowing empathy and euphoric qualities of LSD to a "T", i've used it enough times to know this for sure, this quality was also found to be inherent to 25i by Erny as well, the good humor, the overflowing empathy, this is the shared mindspace between 25i and LSD, it is a trait of high 5-HT2A & 5-HTC agonism, 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C agonism is also responsible for in depth behavioral qualities along with visual presentation. Adding this into the tryptamine trip (keep tryptamine dose high so that it is not "over-ridden" with 5-HT2A/HT2C agonims from 25i, keep in balance!) at a very very low dose, should serve to accentuate the empathetic, behavioral and visual qualites of any psychedelic trip, analogous to the overflowing joy-ous empathogenic LSD trip. So keep the tryptamine dose high (or mescaline dose for that matter if being used) yet add back in "just a touch of love" from the 25i with a very very low dose.

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2. the only thing 25i-nbome has "going for it" is that it hits the 5-HT2A and 5-HTC with remarkable potency, just as LSD does, however, LSD (as nichols states in the Jerome paper) is really not that "remarkable" at the 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors as compared to all the other 7 receptors it hits with way more intensity before those particular two....all the natural psychedelics (dmt, psilocin, 5-meo-dmt, mescaline, semi-synthetic lsd) hit the same number of other receptors such as 5-ht1a, 5-ht1b, 5-ht1d, 5-ht1e, 5-ht7, 5-ht6, 5-ht5a, d1, d3, etc. with way way more potency than they do the 5-ht2a and 5-ht2c receptors (just like lsd)....all the crappy man-made psychedelics like doi, dom, doc, 2c-e, etc. hit the 5-ht2A and 5-ht2C receptors with more strength than anything else, which makes them quite "un-balanced" and lacking in full 100% mind-manifesting power, 25i-nbome is no exception, it doesn't even hit any of the 5-HT1 receptors (what a pity), and is quite lacking....the only thing going for it is that it hits 5-ht2A/5-HT2C with great strength....this gives it the euphoria, love, over-flowing empathy, and visual take off power as LSD, but not much else, it will never be 100% fully mind-manifesting like LSD or psilocin or dmt unless you add quite a bit of mescaline along with the 25i, then it becomes "fully-balanced", but even when you do this, you gotta keep the mescaline dose much stronger than the 25i-dose else you end up with something way too strong on 5-ht2A/5-HT2c, just like all the man-made psychedelics which pale in comparison to "well rounded psychedelics" like LSD, psilocin, mescaline, dmt.

2. 25i-nbome captures the euphoria, over-flowing empathy, LOVE, humor, all the complex behavioral qualities that make us human, and the visual take-off power of LSD, but that is about it,, it only hits 2 receptors with any amount of super-power strength (the 5-HT2A/5-HT2C receptors)...just as LSD does...however, remember that LSD and psilocin, dmt, mescaline all hit over a handfull of OTHER important receptors with way way more power than they even hit 5-HT2A/5-HT2C receptors, this is paramount to a quality nature-made psychedelic, you NEED to hit the 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, 5-HT7, 5-HT6, 5-HT5A receptors with way more potency than 5-ht2a/5-ht2c to end up with a 100% mind-manifesting trip....the 25i trip feels like "half-a-psychedelic trip" because it is so lacking in not being able to hit the other brain receptors....it will always be "one-dimensional" because of this, this can only be corrected by taking 300 to 400mg of mescaline along with your low-level (350 to 500ug) dose of 25i. If you don't have mescaline, you can substitute any other well-rounded psychedelic like psilocyn, 4-aco-dmt, etc.

3. by reading over 1000 pages of 4-aco-dmt reports, this seems like it would be quite an awesome candidate (due to it's 100% mind-manifesting power) to use in combination with very low dose 25i-nbome, there are countless reports that comment on the sedating qualities of 4-aco-dmt indicating to me that it does indeed hit most if not all of the 5-HT1 receptors (and this is a very good thing)....I've read of about 4 reports where others have combined a good solid dose of 4-aco-dmt with very low dose 2ci, creating a remarkable trip where the 5-ht2a/5-ht2c agonism from the 2ci adds a bit of stimulation to the sedating 4-aco-dmt trip, as well as great visual power and wonderful behavioral/empathogenic qualities, 25i-nbome could do this job even better when added in very low dose amounts as well i believe, it blends so perfectly well with mescaline, and I think if mescaline were not available, 4-aco-dmt would be a very good candidate/substitute to use. Here again, however, you would only want to add in very very low dose 25i-nbome, as you would not want the 5-ht2a/5-ht2c agonism from the 25i-nbome to "over-ride" the other all important receptors sites, you only want to bring the 5-ht2a/5-ht2c agonism up to about a "mid-level" on the receptergnome chart....just like LSD does, but not more than that, else you end up with a very un-balanced psychedelic trip, that is "all in your face" and not much else.
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Take a look at the receptor data for the "classics" LSD and psilocin as compared to the man-made psychedelics, and you can see for yourself how "out of whack" they are, this explains why so many of them are considered "shallow", "non-spiritual", "in your face", etc...:

4.00 = maximum affinity/strength, I've high-lited the 5-HT2A/5-HT2 receptors so you can see they are midway to close to bottom as compared to all the others, this IS important in a CLASSIC 100% mind-manifesting psychedelic.

Psilocin: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.40 5ht1d, 3.37 D1, 3.03 5ht1e, 2.88 5ht1a, 2.83 5ht5a, 2.82 5ht7, 2.82 5ht6, 2.67 D3, 2.52 5ht2c, 2.19 5ht1b, 2.14 5ht2a, 1.77 Imidazoline1, 1.74 SERT, 1.57 Alpha2B, 1.36 Alpha2A, 1.03 Alpha2C; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D4, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, NET, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, Ca+Channel, H1, H2, CB2, CB1; ND: M5, NMDA

LSD: 4.00 5ht1b, 3.77 5ht7, 3.75 5ht6, 3.73 5ht1a, 3.70 5ht1d, 3.64 5ht5a, 3.54 5ht2a, 3.16 D3, 3.11 5ht2b, 3.11 5ht2c, 2.93 Alpha2A, 2.62 5ht1e, 2.55 D2, 2.39 D4, 2.34 D1, 2.05 D5, 1.54 Alpha1A, 1.40 H1, 1.39 Beta1, 1.05 Beta2, 0.65 Alpha1B; 0.00: KOR, DOR, DAT, SERT, MOR, NET; ND: Sigma2, Alpha2B, Alpha2C, Imidazoline1, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Sigma1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA

DMT: 4.00 5ht7, 3.97 5ht1d, 3.91 5ht2b, 3.53 Alpha2B, 3.53 Alpha2C, 3.51 D1, 3.42 5ht2c, 3.28 5ht1e, 3.25 5ht6, 3.16 5ht5a, 3.13 Imidazoline1, 2.95 Alpha1B, 2.75 Alpha2A, 2.70 Alpha1A, 2.58 5ht2a, 2.37 SERT, 2.23 Sigma1; 0.00: 5ht1a, D4, D5, Beta1, D2, D3, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Beta2, Sigma2, CB2, KOR, Ca+Channel, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H2, CB1; ND: H1, DOR, MOR, NMDA

Mescaline: 4.00 Alpha2C, 3.97 5ht2b, 3.61 5ht1a, 3.44 Imidazoline1, 3.16 5ht1e, 2.92 Alpha2A; 0.00: 5ht2a, 5ht2c, 5ht6, 5ht1d, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, Alpha1A, Alpha1B, 5ht5a, Alpha2B, 5ht7, Beta1, Beta2, SERT, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA


Awesome! :clap: :clap: :clap: now uuuggggghh :( :( :( compare with these man-made psychedelics...see how the 5-ht2A/5-HT2C strength "way" over-rides everything else? this is NOT GOOD !!! it causes a very un-balanced psychedelic trip that is "in your face", "too stimulating", "non-spiritual" and "not very mind-manifesting at all": 2ce is slightly better than all the other man-made psychedelics cause it at least hits a number of other important receptors with about equal strength. Remember that 5-HT1 receptors make up the largest percentage of receptors in the brain.

DOI: 4.00 5ht2c, 3.79 Alpha2A, 3.52 Beta2, 3.44 5ht2a, 3.13 Alpha2B, 3.13 5ht2b, 3.00 5ht1d, 2.90 M4, 2.89 Beta1, 2.88 Alpha2C, 2.83 SERT, 2.66 5ht1e, 2.51 M3, 2.42 H1, 2.36 M2, 2.34 5ht6, 2.32 M5, 2.31 5ht1a, 2.23 M1, 1.90 5ht7, 1.73 Sigma1, 1.70 Sigma2, 1.67 D1; 0.00: 5ht1b, DAT, Imidazoline1, NET, 5ht5a, DOR, KOR, MOR, Alpha1B, D2, D3, D4, D5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, NMDA; ND: Ca+Channel

DOB: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.23 5ht2a, 2.97 5ht2c, 2.11 Beta2, 1.89 5ht7, 1.82 Alpha2C, 1.79 5ht1d, 1.68 D3, 1.62 5ht1b, 1.53 M3, 1.44 5ht1e, 1.41 Alpha2B, 1.39 Imidazoline1, 1.25 Sigma1, 1.21 Beta1, 1.18 5ht1a, 0.96 Alpha2A, 0.87 5ht5a, 0.85 5ht6, 0.66 SERT, 0.63 H1; 0.00: D5, D2, D4, NET, D1, Alpha1B, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, DAT, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA

TMA-2: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.42 5ht2a, 3.04 H1, 2.58 5ht2c; 0.00: 5ht1b, 5ht1a, 5ht1e, 5ht5a, 5ht6, 5ht7, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, 5ht1d, Alpha1B, Alpha2A, Alpha2B, Alpha2C, Beta1, Beta2, SERT, DAT, NET, M5, Alpha1A, H2, M2; ND: KOR, DOR, M1, MOR, M3, M4, Imidazoline1, Sigma1, Sigma2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA

2C-E: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.76 5ht2a, 3.54 5ht1d, 3.44 Alpha2C, 3.38 5ht2c, 3.00 5ht1b, 2.91 Alpha2B, 2.91 5ht1a, 2.77 5ht7, 2.71 Alpha2A, 2.60 5ht1e, 2.27 D3, 2.16 M5, 1.99 M3, 1.93 5ht6, 1.88 D2; 0.00: D1, Alpha1A, Alpha1B, 5ht5a, Beta1, M1, SERT, D4, NET, Imidazoline1, H1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, NMDA, M2, DAT, M4, D5, CB2, H2, Ca+Channel, CB1; ND: Sigma1, Beta2

This poster from Youtube on "DOI vs. LSD" saids it perfectly imho:
"LSD is much better than DOI beause DOI isn't as "mind expanding", profound or mystical.I find RC's are much more 'meh" or "shallow" compared to the deeper LSD or mushroom trips."
An often overlooked fact is that 5-HT1 agonism shuts off serotonin firing (Nichols) during a psychedelic trip, this is badly needed and much more important in strength than even 5-HT2A/5-HT2C agonism. You can't shut off serotonin firing very well if stimulating 5-HT2A/5-HT2C agonism over-rides everything else.

I'm not trying to say that 25i-nbome is not unique, it is very unique, but like all tools it must be used properly (in combination with other proper psychedelics) to harness it's full power. The effects are mind-blowing, transcendental, hyper-dimensional, but only in combination with psychedelics like mescaline and the like. In short, if you love LSD, you will love combining 25i with other psychedelics that could use a little boost. We love mescaline, but we always sit in anticipation of when the 25i is gonna hit, cause it brings the experience up to a whole nother level, joy, humor, love, empathy, art-appreciation, spirit, and visuals are brought up to the nth degree, and we love it. It also allows you to stretch your mescaline doses out farther.
 
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I have an order of 25I on the way and want to liquid dose subligualy (drop under toung or between gums and lips)
Iv looked everywhere and never got an full anwer on solubility unless HCL from what im reading im sure ill get the freebase and is it soulble in water? or what do you all suggest. I know it will work in 91% IPA but that burns pretty bad when dropped in mouth and i dont think i could hold that for 20+ minutes. Any helps apprecitated!!
thanks!
 
Just convert it to a watersoluble salt. Hydrochloric acid or vinegar seem to be convenient. Search this thread for procedures, I'm fairly sure you'll find something ;)
 
Two pages back actually! ha.
So if I put 50mg in .5ml of vinigar and after it mixes in just add 4.5ml of water to make it .05ml per 500mcg?
or do i have to let the vinigar evaporate first? thanks!!
 
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