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Thread: The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread

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    Ah I assumed you were a crazed Lord of the Rings fanatic. Bad assumption is bad
     

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    Moderator
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    Lets stay on topic. All Hobbit talk belongs in: The Big & Dandy Shire Thread

    Okay to try and "re"-rail the thread, subjectively how does 25I-NBOMe compare to it's 2C counterpart 2C-I for you guys? I don't hear as much about stimulations, seems more of a full blown psychedelic than a party drug to me - but it'd be interesting to hear comparisons

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    Bluelighter Erny's Avatar
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    To finish our conversation

    When you post some descriptions of your adventures you should always explain the thing about your sensitivity to this drug. For this not to look as an advertisement for fools. For the reason I've already told you - some people might think that this is what they need, while they actually do not. And for the blessed knights of light not to attack you in such foolish manner.
     

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    Bluelighter Erny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesusgreen View Post
    subjectively how does 25I-NBOMe compare to it's 2C counterpart 2C-I for you guys? I don't hear as much about stimulations, seems more of a full blown psychedelic than a party drug to me - but it'd be interesting to hear comparisons
    I think I've explained this already a half dosen of times here. There isn't much of 2C* here. Rather much of DO*. Actually neither of those but a thing on it's own.
     

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    so my friends have 120mg of 25I-nbome freebase dissolved in 30ml of isopropyl alcohol.

    they are now wondering what best to do with this.

    they have a dropper which drops consistently pure isopropyl alcohol at 40 drops per ml.

    since 1 ml of the solution contains 4mg of 25I-nbome, one drop should contain 100 micrograms of 25I-nbome. so 5 drops should be a reasonable 500 ug dose.

    the question is how best to administer this.

    1) 5 drops on an individual paper blotter letting the alcohol evaporate and then using the blotter sublingually
    they are not sure though if the uncomplexed freebase is absorbed sublingually in any reasonable amount. has anyone tried that

    they don't have access to hpbcd. they could get hold of glycerine which they have heard can help with absorption but are not sure at all about that.

    2) dropping 5 drops straight into the nose. is pure isopropyl alcohol possible to administer that way or does it need to be diluted with water? (the total quantity would be a bit more than 0.1ml)

    3) converting it to a salt first in a method roughly explained in the 2C-C-nbome thread
    add about .1ml of white vinegar per 5mg freebase and it should dissolve, then add water up to the until you have the the volume you want. So for 10mg freebase, added the 25c into a 10ml amber glass vial, add 0.2ml of vinegar and wait overnight or heat slightly until dissolved, add 6.5ml of water to make a solution of 150ug/0.1ml and its all set

    then dropping it on blotter or insuflating the apropriate amount of solution

    4) evaporate 5 drops of the isopropyl alcohol with the freebase in a pipe and then vaporize (they would prefer using a different route of administration though, evaporation worked for them but was a bit too fast to hit. they would like a method with a more gradual onset)

    5) someone else mentioned dissolving in vodka because its possible to insufflate a reasonably small amount of vodka. but there's still the doubt whether uncomplexed freebase will be absorbed at all
     

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    Bluelighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erny View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Survived Abortion
    ...harm reduction forum of bright and compassionate individuals
    That particular phrase made me laugh aloud. Are these people serious? Someone need to troll this harm reduction crowd of bright and compassionate individuals. I only see a crowd of youth typing useless posts. This is not an offense, I'm just writing what I really think.
    Of course, Your Worthiness Upon High.
     

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    I see both. Do I get a prize?
     

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    uhh please do tell: which one lasts longer 25C or 25I ?

    please state how long (estimation) THANK YOU
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomash View Post
    so my friends have 120mg of 25I-nbome freebase dissolved in 30ml of isopropyl alcohol.

    they are now wondering what best to do with this.

    they have a dropper which drops consistently pure isopropyl alcohol at 40 drops per ml.

    since 1 ml of the solution contains 4mg of 25I-nbome, one drop should contain 100 micrograms of 25I-nbome. so 5 drops should be a reasonable 500 ug dose.

    the question is how best to administer this.

    1) 5 drops on an individual paper blotter letting the alcohol evaporate and then using the blotter sublingually
    they are not sure though if the uncomplexed freebase is absorbed sublingually in any reasonable amount. has anyone tried that

    they don't have access to hpbcd. they could get hold of glycerine which they have heard can help with absorption but are not sure at all about that.

    2) dropping 5 drops straight into the nose. is pure isopropyl alcohol possible to administer that way or does it need to be diluted with water? (the total quantity would be a bit more than 0.1ml)

    3) converting it to a salt first in a method roughly explained in the 2C-C-nbome thread
    add about .1ml of white vinegar per 5mg freebase and it should dissolve, then add water up to the until you have the the volume you want. So for 10mg freebase, added the 25c into a 10ml amber glass vial, add 0.2ml of vinegar and wait overnight or heat slightly until dissolved, add 6.5ml of water to make a solution of 150ug/0.1ml and its all set

    then dropping it on blotter or insuflating the apropriate amount of solution

    4) evaporate 5 drops of the isopropyl alcohol with the freebase in a pipe and then vaporize (they would prefer using a different route of administration though, evaporation worked for them but was a bit too fast to hit. they would like a method with a more gradual onset)

    5) someone else mentioned dissolving in vodka because its possible to insufflate a reasonably small amount of vodka. but there's still the doubt whether uncomplexed freebase will be absorbed at all
    I'm curious about this also, especially number 3.
     

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    Isopropyl alcohol is a bad choice for a solvent if you wanted to directly dose that solution. It's an irritant and not particularly healthy. Since these bomamines work best when you avoid oral and sublingual it comes to the more sensitive areas of the body. Moreover you can't dilute such a solution of the freebase with water because the substance will crash out and it's impossible to dose that.
    These explanations are just to line out briefly why another route of preparing a solution should be considered.

    0) Getting a micropipette (expensive) or a 1 ml syringe (very cheap, recommended) is way better than counting drops. The drop size is highly variable depending for example on temperature, solvent, dropper material and geometry. With a syringe you can measure volumes to 0.1 ml very conveniently and reasonably accurate. A micropipette would still be preferred but a 1 ml syringe is close enough.

    1) Since you would evaporate the alcohol it looks like a possible approach. Just search in this thread for the reports, it's likely been tried already. Try to find out how well the freebase works sublingually. My guess is not that great.

    2) As explained above, an isopropyl alcohol solution shouldn't be insufflated or diluted with water.

    3) This is the way to go. Pour the isopropyl alcohol solution in a glass vial and evaporate the solvent (no open flames! Above a radiator would be optimal). When all of the alcohol is gone you should end up with 120 mg 25I-NBOMe (if the solvent is reasonably pure; if not you have solvent residues mixed in, bad). Then you can follow the recipe you quoted. Better use 20% ethyl alcohol in water (about half the strength of vodka) instead of plain water because your stock solution should likely keep a few months at least and mold would grow if you used plain water. Aiming for a concentration with which you have one dose in about 0.1 ml is recommended so that the solution doesn't dribble out of your nose if you go for insufflating.

    4) Vaporized is even more dose sensitive. Don't do that with drops. And check for the right (i.e. safe) vaped dose beforehand.

    5) I'd guess it will be absorbed but since you would have to get rid of the isopropanol anyway you could just turn it into the salt too.

    Hope that helped.
     

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    I think it's worth noting insufflating is supposed to be more speedy & less psychedelic, similar to snorting 2c's.
     

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    I thought this was interesting quote on 25i-nbome from Nichols:

    http://www.heffter.org/docs/hrireview/01/chapter5.pdf

    http://www.heffter.org/docs/hrireview/02/chap5.pdf

    See top of page 45 for quote from the following top paper:

    Nichols, Medicinal chemistry of phenethylamines:
    Recently, for example, we have "stumbled" upon a simple phenethylamine molecule that has affinity for the 5-HT2A receptor nearly 100-fold higher than any other compound discovered to date, including LSD itself!
    5-HT2A is believed to be the "power on" switch which requires agonism in order to experience the Psychedelic State (and especially the "visual psychedelic state"), with 5-meo-dmt being the lone exception while not being particularly visual, does not require 5-HT2A agonism.

    Whereas acid hits the 5-HT2A receptor at 3.0, 25i-nbome is able to hit it at 0.03, with never before seen potency. Channel this incredible visual power with mescaline (or some other 5-HT1 agonist) which links up all the 5-HT1 receptors located all over the brain, and you can see why the visual quality to the combined mescaline + 25i trips we have experienced is outstanding, never mind the audial component which is just as mind-blowing, and the complete mind-manifestation. Acid has met it's match.
     

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    ^ mescaline is rare as fuck unfortunately
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by tregar View Post
    with 5-meo-dmt being the lone exception while not being particularly visual, does not require 5-HT2A agonism.
    Are you basing that on the Ray paper? I'd bet if someone took 5-MeO-DMT after ketanserin or MDL not much would happen.

    Cryptix, unless cactus is banned where you live mescaline shouldn't be too hard to get hold of.
     

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    ^ Not everyone wants to chomp down a ton of cactus though. I'm personally holding out for some Mescaline suphate/HCl myself, though I'll probably give in and go the cactus route soon enough - I feel if I did go with cactus I'd have to grow it myself to really enjoy it.

    Man 25I-NBOMe sounds more interesting by the day.. If only I hadn't just racked up some huge debts I'd go get my hands on some. Oh well, soon enough!

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    Extract it, duh
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesusgreen View Post
    I feel if I did go with cactus I'd have to grow it myself to really enjoy it.

    hope you got a few years to kill. i'm also unsure of how sunny poland is :P
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by cryptix420 View Post
    hope you got a few years to kill. i'm also unsure of how sunny poland is :P
    Poland is sunnier than England haha, very hot summers, just harsh winters. I wouldn't necessarily do it while I was still here though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skillet View Post
    Extract it, duh
    Have you ever extracted mescaline from cactus? Extracting most pure alkaloids from natural sources is a very long and tedious process that includes many seperation and purification procedures because there are hundreds of alkaloids in any given plant. The only really easy extraction I'm aware of is trimyristin from nutmeg (and this is only easy if you have basic organic chemistry knowledge and access to specific solvents and glassware).
     

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    No, but it sounds like an alcohol extraction, followed by acid-base isn't too bad. I'm used to long, tedious processes though
     

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    SpeefhEinsAchtFunf: thanks so much for your feedback. it has been very helpful


    so they tried this:
    add about .1ml of white vinegar per 5mg freebase and it should dissolve, then add water up to the until you have the the volume you want. So for 10mg freebase, added the 25c into a 10ml amber glass vial, add 0.2ml of vinegar and wait overnight or heat slightly until dissolved, add 6.5ml of water to make a solution of 150ug/0.1ml and its all set

    but had trouble dissolving it. it didnt seem to mix at all with the vinegar creating a cloudy solution. they added a bit more vinegar and will leave it overnight to see what happens but so far it seems it isn't dissolving.

    any ideas? they are sure they have freebase.

    they tried just insufflating a pure drop of isopropyl alcohol which didnt seem to have any adverse effects. in such small quantities it didnt seem irritable. maybe they will try insufflating the isopropyl alcohol with 4mg/ml. (but only a total of 0.1ml to get a dose of 400ug)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomash View Post
    they tried just insufflating a pure drop of isopropyl alcohol which didnt seem to have any adverse effects.
    This is pretty funny when taken out of context

    really though, snorting alcohol sounds fun



    as for all the stuff you guys are talking about with vinegar and whatnot....is that method supposed to bypass whatever reason you need HPBCD for? Using that is what makes it active....so how can you NOT use it? Either method #3 is crap or I'm missing something.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by cryptix420 View Post
    as for all the stuff you guys are talking about with vinegar and whatnot....is that method supposed to bypass whatever reason you need HPBCD for? Using that is what makes it active....so how can you NOT use it? Either method #3 is crap or I'm missing something.
    from what i've read substances in freebase form are not absorbed well. vinegar turns the substance into a salt which is supposed to have better absorption through the mucous membranes.

    it seems hpbcd improves this absorption even more.

    one of the group insufflated a little bit of IPA containing 500ug of freebase and had a pretty strong experience. another one droppe the solution containing 500ug on a paper and consumed it sublingually (without hpbcd or turning it into salt) and had a visually active but mellow experience.

    so it seems to be possible to use it in freebase form both sublingually and per insufflation
     

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    Chiming in here! 
    Since this is turning into the one of the wierdest, most disparate and at-times-combative threads I've ever seen on BL, I wanna chime in on a couple of things that are bothering me. From the recent looks of it most folks here are phoning in their partially thought out posts from waystations located in the hinterland limbo that is also known as "not-quite-baseline".

    1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Erny View Post
    And for the blessed knights of light not to attack you in such foolish manner.
    Wow, Erny can you please recognize that it is not only you who is capable of offering timely and deep advice on tolerance, dose and experience? Cynicism will get you nowhere here. And more importantly, there is no need to rile up and rally the up-n-comers in some kinda "us vs them mentality" so that they view the Harm Reduction messages in a negative light (e.g. your "Blessed Knights of the Light who attack n00bs in a foolish manner]. Sure some responders go overboard, some give helpful details, and some help the young 'uns plot a course for future action and enlightenment.

    It's all part of the community of BL, and each plays a role... Sometimes we even trade costumes and reverse roles. e.g. I like to give a heartfelt measured response, but sometimes I blast off on someone who is surely going to ruin a newly available and potentially world-changing molecule by doing stupid things and bringing it to the attention of the jack-booted thugs in black helicopters. Its all good man. Intricate the n00bs with us, don't extricate them to mordor.

    2)
    Quote Originally Posted by thomash View Post
    so my friends have 120mg of 25I-nbome freebase dissolved in 30ml of isopropyl alcohol.

    they are now wondering what best to do with this.

    they have a dropper which drops consistently pure isopropyl alcohol at 40 drops per ml.

    since 1 ml of the solution contains 4mg of 25I-nbome, one drop should contain 100 micrograms of 25I-nbome. so 5 drops should be a reasonable 500 ug dose.

    the question is how best to administer this.
    Can you all please start presenting your inquiries and dilemnas in dimensional analysis form? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? It *really* provides a context-free way to see what the issue is and how to resolve it.

    I'm not trying to dictate the mode of posting here, but it really and truly helps evolve the whole community towards a more succinct, less ambiguous form of communication.

    Can we all try it please? The Key is that all extraneous details drop out, and all units except the final desired ones are eliminated.

    So, accepting the volumetrics of your tools, we have:

    (120mg 25I/30ml iPrOH)*(ml iPrOH/40 Drops) = 0.1 mg 25I/drop iPrOH

    Ok, now that the plea for standardization of communicating dosages/volums and masses is out of the way... I'd like to give my opinion on the three options you developed.

    Go with Number 1 (drop on blotter and use psykap's upper buccal ROA). This should get you there, and the idea of 0.5 mg (5 drops) per blot is a good starting place.

    In formal form it looks like this:

    (120mg 25I/30ml iPrOH)*(1ml iPrOH/40 Drops)*(5 drops/Blotter) = 0.5 mg/ Blotter

    Frankly though, if it were me, I'd dry down ~10 drops of the 25I-iPrOH solution (sol'n) in a small tube, leaving a residue that can be taken up/dissolved into a water/vinegar sol'n. This enables you to not dilute the overall sol'n further by adding water/vinegar sol'n to the 25I-iPrOH sol'n.

    So, [PER USE @ 1 mg] dry down the 10 drops of 25I-iPrOH sol'n and take it back up/dissolve in 0.1 ml of 1:1 diluted vinegar (NOTE: 0.1 ml of 1:1 diluted vinegar = 4 of your drops using your calibrated dropper, which I calculate as 0.025 ml/drop, given your saying that you can count on 40 drops/ml). You can scale this up accordingly.

    Formally [PER USE @ 1 mg]:

    (0.1mg 25I/drop 25I-iPrOH sol'n)*(10 drops 25I-iPrOH/tube)[insert dry step here]*(1/0.1ml 1:1 vinegar water sol'n) = 1mg 25I-acetate in 0.1 ml 1:1 vinegar water sol'n. This is suitable for liquid insufflation of ~0.03 to 0.05 ml sol'n delivering 300-500 mcg 25I.
     

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    Bluelighter Erny's Avatar
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    Someone still wants to argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by reformer View Post
    Wow, Erny can you please recognize that it is not only you who is capable of offering timely and deep advice on tolerance, dose and experience?
    This is good to hear.

    so that they view the Harm Reduction messages in a negative light
    Have you seen what was happening here? Some people have got overzealous. What was named "compassion" was actually flaming, it has nothing to do with harm reduction unfortunately, be it even "in the name of harm reduction" (what a nonsense ). Or whatever. So, our hero erased his posts and turned his back upon you. Was it me who forced him into this position now?
     

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