US-trained cartel terrorizing northern Mexico

[CharlesTheHammer]

First of all, I was making an obviously GENERAL statement about Al Jazeera's credibility problems, not speaking of this one story, so I dont know what you are talking about when you say that I "ignored part of the story".


Why would we train "an army" for a country that runs on bribes and drug money?


I'm not sure how old you are, but this Mexican border violence is something that has become a problem, only in the last ten years. Prior to them, the cartels in Mexico got along with eachother, and their police, and were all organized quite well.


Anything's possible. Follow the money. Kinda ironic how the US is involved with drugs around the world, time and time again since the war on drugs was started, yet supplies go up, prices go down... Because we're winning 8)

Ten years ago and before, MOST of the H and coke and meth were coming into america via different routes OTHER than Mexico. The only drug primarily coming into the US via the mexican drug cartels was Mary Jane, so they didnt make nearly the money they do now. There were less cartels and less violence as a direct result. Since Bush tripled the border security spending by 300% about 4 years ago, and doubled the security personel, and increased technology enormously, the cartels are having a harder time getting drugs into the country, so the entry points they use are shrunk down, so they are fighting for control of the increased profits and the decreased turf........ Simple

Whether Bush did all that on purpose to make more drug money.......Well?

We train an army(some soldiers) for Mexico to try and help them, hoping their will be some improvement with the problems. We cant just blow them off as a neighbor needing our assistance........ The same problem is rearing its ugly head in other countries like Haiti, where money is disappearing faster than Houdini, same in African nations where we and others send money to help them, but it is stolen by corrupt officials. We need to make sure the money is spent wisely, but thats difficult. Same with the money we send to the Palestinians, and to Iraq and Afghanistan. To Egypt as well! It mostly seems to disappear after we send it! But that also happens in corrupt, 3rd world cities in the US like Chicago, Los Angeles, New Orleans. Especially New Orleans, where about a decade ago we sent billions of fed dollars to fix the levy on lake Ponchartrain(spelling), but it was "redirected" by the corrupt Dems running the place, which resulted in the Katrina disaster, after they DIDNT use the money to fix the levies! So the fools living there keep electing the same dems over and over, for over 60 years straight now, including the same mayor who failed them during Katrina. Sounds like when D.C. reelected the crack smoking mayor(another Dem), Marion Berry........

 

[severely etarded]

Ten years ago and before, MOST of the H and coke and meth were coming into america via different routes OTHER than Mexico. The only drug primarily coming into the US via the mexican drug cartels was Mary Jane, so they didnt make nearly the money they do now. There were less cartels and less violence as a direct result. Since Bush tripled the border security spending by 300% about 4 years ago, and doubled the security personel, and increased technology enormously, the cartels are having a harder time getting drugs into the country, so the entry points they use are shrunk down, so they are fighting for control of the increased profits and the decreased turf........ Simple

Yes... and that explains the influx of supply?

Whether Bush did all that on purpose to make more drug money.......Well?

We train an army(some soldiers) for Mexico to try and help them, hoping their will be some improvement with the problems. We cant just blow them off as a neighbor needing our assistance........ The same problem is rearing its ugly head in other countries like Haiti, where money is disappearing faster than Houdini, same in African nations where we and others send money to help them, but it is stolen by corrupt officials. We need to make sure the money is spent wisely, but thats difficult. Same with the money we send to the Palestinians, and to Iraq and Afghanistan. To Egypt as well! It mostly seems to disappear after we send it! But that also happens in corrupt, 3rd world cities in the US like Chicago, Los Angeles, New Orleans. Especially New Orleans, where about a decade ago we sent billions of fed dollars to fix the levy on lake Ponchartrain(spelling), but it was "redirected" by the corrupt Dems running the place, which resulted in the Katrina disaster, after they DIDNT use the money to fix the levies! So the fools living there keep electing the same dems over and over, for over 60 years straight now, including the same mayor who failed them during Katrina. Sounds like when D.C. reelected the crack smoking mayor(another Dem), Marion Berry........

Yeah but they were trained well before there was goong to be a major problem, is what I'm trying to say... Did they just forecast 9/11 would cause border problems, or did it just work out that way?

 

[qwe]

As far as Al Jazeera is concerned, they have a little less credibility than MSNBC. That should tell you something of their credibility.

al jazeera, refreshingly, often does real journalism. msnbc, al jazeera, and other networks are biased towards status quo in various economic and social ways.. but msnbc, al jazeera, russiatoday, et al, are so much less biased in this respect than networks like cnn, fox, etc...

This is in NO WAY the fault of America, because that was not the plan. Just because some bad apples do the wrong thing, doesnt mean it's OUR fault that it happened

it doesn't *necessarily* mean it's "our fault"... but when our main export is weapons and we're the military center of the globe, we should expect some collateral damage right?

good intentions with disastrous policies... it's still disastrous, and it still needs to be discussed, and "blame" is still relevant.

a noble and self less goal, that cost us time and money, so we are not the bad guys here.

this is absurdly naive.

 

[kong]

I think the point needs to be made that the U.S. exports flawed prohibition drug policy to other countries while being the largest consumer of drugs.

We are the root cause of the entire problem. Every death in Mexico over drugs is our fault and whether we trained the killers or not is semantics.

If we didn't force everyone in the world to keep drugs illegal and sustain our own absurdly lucrative black market drugs would cause the same amount of violence as bananas or tobacco.

Considering our experience with the prohibition of alcohol resulted in the invention of organized crime we should know better than anyone the severe damage to society prohibition directly causes. This is a black and white issue. American citizens are bear more responsibility for drug violence and the negative effect of impure black market product than any other country.

America has completely ruined Mexico. The corruption they suffer is created by insane trillions of dollars in black market profits. The opportunity to get a piece of those trillions is a motivation no amount of government intervention will ever overcome.

 

[Regenesis2]

Well said kong!

 

[shahab6]

This problem can be solved in mins, all they have to do is legalize drugs, once they legalize drugs these cartel are gone. so many innocent people have died because drugs are illegal, and drug related war, and many many more people will die until they realize the Prohibition of drugs doesn't work.


three of my friends have died because of this drug war, basically drug deal gone wrong, and one of them is serving 20 years in prison, this would've never happened if it was legal.


legalization of drugs does not mean increase using of drugs, also because drugs are illegal and hard to get ,people are using more dangerous drugs, for example 16 years ago coke was easy to get, then they made it harder, now people have switched to meth.
Which is a lot more dangerous.

People do drugs that are available to them, and easy access. The harder you make it, the more violence it gets, and people will use more dangerous drugs.

 

[qwe]

I think the point needs to be made that the U.S. exports flawed prohibition drug policy to other countries while being the largest consumer of drugs.

We are the root cause of the entire problem. Every death in Mexico over drugs is our fault and whether we trained the killers or not is semantics.

If we didn't force everyone in the world to keep drugs illegal and sustain our own absurdly lucrative black market drugs would cause the same amount of violence as bananas or tobacco.

Considering our experience with the prohibition of alcohol resulted in the invention of organized crime we should know better than anyone the severe damage to society prohibition directly causes. This is a black and white issue. American citizens are bear more responsibility for drug violence and the negative effect of impure black market product than any other country.

America has completely ruined Mexico. The corruption they suffer is created by insane trillions of dollars in black market profits. The opportunity to get a piece of those trillions is a motivation no amount of government intervention will ever overcome.

nice post

 

[delta82nd]

It's like Fox news, over there. Fox news won't make up stories, they sometimes put a spin on them, but I assure you, this story is accurate.

The moral of the story is that
Zetas were Mexican special forces trained in the US, ironically to counter narcotics, but ended up as a muscle for the Gulf cartel in TX with the skills they learned in the US, that primed them to be drug dealing hitmen, when they split from the gulf cartel, they started killing all the other cartels and now all the others are against them.

Ya sounds like some political bullshit is going on. Could it have any link to the Bush yrs in the CIA, and the CIA drug trafficking incidents?

I wonder what this war is really about. It seems like the US is involved in a lot of countries where drugs are involved. We go after columbia and escobar, to get the cocaine during reagan years, Bush's CIA years. We go in afghanistan in 2001 after the pretext 9-11, and protect the opium crops. Now we special-forces train a gang of thugs to go to Mexico, work as drug dealing cartels. Hmm...

it happens more then you think don't want to say alot about the subject but . there is no difference between them breaking off from the mexico army and being guns for hire and my guys getting recruited by blackwater

 

[Nexus298]

If these politicians can get their head out of their ass and grow some balls we could end it all right now. Legalize everything. Its human nature to take drugs. Just because a doctor gives it to you doesn't change the fact we are all on drugs. If they wanted peace and all it takes is legalization. We almost got there in cali this vote. Maybe some day far off in the future in a distant land they will just let us do drugs and safe drug use will be taught, just as safe driving is taught. HARM REDUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Unbreakable]

I have no doubt that these 500 plus men were hand selected for "special" training.

After all, how else will the government retain control unless they train them personally.

 

[RobotRipping]

I don't really understand why people think this is an issue of ignorance. I am positive the majority of politicians understand what causes the war on drugs. Look at the industries which have a vested interest in the drug war - law enforcement, pharmaceutical companies, the prison system. Those are just 3 of many and they make insane amounts of money from the drug war. Prohibition is so profitable that you would have to be a moron (or a righteous person) to stop it or even acknowledge that it is a problem.

If drugs were legalized I wouldn't expect the cartels to just die; they would be furious and would likely become so violent that drugs would have to be recriminalized. The problem is that this world is run by money and power. Legalization is not the answer, the attitudes and ideology of western culture must be changed. I'd be surprised if the US government didn't have a way to profit from the black market as well - and by profiting from both sides of the drug war, profits can increase exponentially and in our capitalist society, who wouldn't want that?

 

[severely etarded]

If drugs were legalized I wouldn't expect the cartels to just die; they would be furious and would likely become so violent that drugs would have to be recriminalized. The problem is that this world is run by money and power. Legalization is not the answer, the attitudes and ideology of western culture must be changed. I'd be surprised if the US government didn't have a way to profit from the black market as well - and by profiting from both sides of the drug war, profits can increase exponentially and in our capitalist society, who wouldn't want that?

Heh, I highly doubt it's the government making money on it.
More like wasting taxpayer money, ruining lives, and throwing them in prison, and killing people, all in order for a small group of people at the top to benefit.

Also, I doubt the cartels would die, they just move focus to other black market industries that they already profit from, like human trafficking and other forms of organized crime. They wouldn't get more violent though. 29,000 people killed... when does the bloodshed end. Nobody else thinks it's strange that the Zetas split from the Gulf Cartel when Calderon became presiden, which is when it got out of control. It wouldn't be so bad anyway if our fucking military didnt teach them the deadly tactics they use

 

[kong]

If drugs were legalized I wouldn't expect the cartels to just die; they would be furious and would likely become so violent that drugs would have to be recriminalized. The problem is that this world is run by money and power. Legalization is not the answer, the attitudes and ideology of western culture must be changed. I'd be surprised if the US government didn't have a way to profit from the black market as well - and by profiting from both sides of the drug war, profits can increase exponentially and in our capitalist society, who wouldn't want that?

It really doesn't matter what the attitude of the U.S. is...change that as much as you want but so long as drugs are illegal those policies will cause violence. If you think the ideology of western culture i.e. propensity to stick drugs up their nose, can be changed..well don't hold your breath..

Could the violence really get much worse in Mexico anyway? They might threaten to kill more people if drugs were legalized but they kill a metric shit ton anyway..that doesn't really count as leverage. Besides to get cartel members to run around killing their countryman takes money, you can't get the footsoldiers to commit murder if you can't pay them.

Take away the cartels main source of income they die. They would no longer have the ability to purchase the corruption which creates the power vacuum enabling them to kidnap and traffic humans. Take police and military off the payroll and they'll quickly quit looking the other way.

Mexicans want jobs, they want safety..but those goals can't compete with black market drug profits.

We dealt with the exact same situation in the 20-30s, the violence decreased overnight when alcohol was legalized.

The U.S. government doesn't run a profit off the drug war exactly...they run a huge loss, but then that's the point. Create the problem and then create giant self sustaining bureaucracies to deal with it.

 

[capstone]

The best part of waking up is the nostalgia of the Bay Of Pigs and Operation Northwoods in your cup....

 

[Regenesis2]

kong said:
If you think the ideology of western culture i.e. propensity to stick drugs up their nose, can be changed..well don't hold your breath..

I agree there and legalization will at least remove the violence associated with drug use or at least greatly lessen it. We deal with raving addicts anyway so addiction without violence is a major fucking plus.

^love your post capstone!

 

[thebuzzardking]

No suprise

They have some show on the history channel, i think it's called "killing pablo" but i'm not for sure, and it talks about the direct involvement of special forces in colombia. This is not a new tactic, think about all the generations of organized crime (gangs) coming up and they all aren't probably dying to get there faces splashed across gangland the t.v. show so they are infiltrating every facet of life, intellectual, police, government, and i think there all just an extension of the elite. the best kind of slave is one dedicated to there servitude.....scary world we live in today, when the top and the bottom of society are waging a war against the good.

 

[kong]

I agree there and legalization will at least remove the violence associated with drug use or at least greatly lessen it. We deal with raving addicts anyway so addiction without violence is a major fucking plus.

Legalization would also have a profound effect on addition and the issues which go with it. Drugs like meth would mostly disappear over the long run. What new user would pick meth if they had access to every other known drug at little cost. People are heavily addicted to cigarettes and they don't cause many problems in the libertarian sense. While dealing with lung cancer and the deaths caused by are a huge drain on resources no one is robbing each other to get a smoke simply because it only costs 15 cents to buy one.

I've been somewhat addicted to several substances at various points in my life but it never caused much of a problem because I've been blessed with easy access to whatever I want at rock bottom prices. I get to pick from 100's of compounds to choose the one I want to take vs. most people, especially those in impoverished areas have few choices: cocaine, heroin, marijuana and speed or meth.

If everyone had a list a mile long to choose from and all options were cheap enough to make them price indifferent few would go the meth route or similar. In a free market I'd rather be surrounded by opiate dependent individuals than alcoholics or meth addicts for example.

Who has time to rob and swindle when you can buy heroin for 5 bucks a pack.

 

[...]

Legalization would also have a profound effect on addition

I assure you the mathematics of the universe will be unaffected.

 

[kong]

I assure you the mathematics of the universe will be unaffected.

I disagree..I think it is naive to believe the mathematics of the universe would be unaffected when a person could buy crack at a gas station. Giving the average person stimulants would open a whole new world previously protected by the university cartel system.

Its people like you who keep the common man down.

 

[...]

Its people like you who keep the common man down.

Dude, wow, I was poking fun at the typo.