• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Heroin "New" Mex brown powder-type vs. "older" black tar

Status
Not open for further replies.
I also wanted to add that <snip> is actually a <snip> that create quite the <snip>. It all actually started as <snip> who could actually <snip> their customers and <snip>. When they tried to <snip> it became obviously clear that they <snip> while retaining the color. The <snip> sold so well that they just <snip> to profit off of this <snip>. This has been a public service announcement. (The more you know....)



*mod edit* -That's right BITCH. When you promise a mod head YOU WATCH YOUR TEETH or your shit gets edited to shit. Let this be a lesson to all of you
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've run into this powder semi-recently here near the west coast. You're righ that It's of higher quality, by a pretty large margin compred to the tar...around here at least. When I had this stuff I had a done a shot and was nodding off at my comp desk. When my euphoria faded i decided to smoke some, nodded off a bit longer and when time came to renew I finally realized it was fine enough to just short. It didn't need crushing and made for an awesome snort.


The balloon wasn't ALL powder, but it had some chunks of near tar with it. I really think this stuff is just some good product coming for a more experienced Cartel. Sadly I've only run into it once in recent months but I've been hoping for it plenty.


I imagine this will be the standard coming from Mexico within the next 10yrs.
 
About 4-5 years ago a friend of mine would buy powdered grey-light brown heroin in the Tri-State area which he said was the best ever, and he was very experienced. He'd been sober but just got back in the game and has been getting medium-dark tan colored rocks that are very tightly pressed, so much that he needs to smash them with a heavy object just to break off some pieces. It does break down into a fine powder, has specks of both lighter and darker tan specks evenly distributed throughout, has no smell of vinegar at all, and becomes "gooey" in the nose after being snorted. Also about 90% of it will dissolve in cool water but requires lots of smashing and stirring, he never tried dissolving it w/ heat. Finally, even when powderized (sic?), it stays a powder when hot breath is blown on it, and does not become tar-like even after repeated breathing on it.

So, my friend says this stuff is very weak, it keeps his w/d's away, but has taken 90-120mg oral doses of oxycodone and nodded whereas half a G of the H snorted does nothing more than sedate and bring up to baseline.
He thinks the low quality of the H may be partly caused by the H's tendency to turn into a goo when snorted.
-Could this be a powder form of tar?
-based on my friends info, what ROA or technique other than IV may be effective?
 
This thread made me smile a little.

For anyone who's not aware (all two of you) there's a drought on in the UK and most of Europe, where our heroin is 99.9% brown powder diamorphine base. Looks like the Mexicans have finally got their shit together with regard to refining their product.

Even more ironic is that there's white 'heroin' available here (marketed by dealers as 'for shooting only') and nobody really wants the stuff.

Maybe heroin smoking will finally take off in the US now to the extent which it has in the UK and Europe? I don't know. I know you can smoke tar, but the few over here who've compared it to smoking Afghan brown have suggested it isn't quite as good. It may be a good thing in the long run. Hope it's a sign your supply chain is upping its game. Maybe they should send some over here, eh? ;)
 
Tar is NOT "acetylised opium." Opium has never had a morphine content surpassing 27% and averages 10%. Does all Tar have less than 27% purity? That is merely common sense even if you don't understand the process.

The "Brown" in Europe is heroin #2, freebase. It needs an acidic catalyst to adjust the pH before injection. It is almose never seen in the US.

Mexican brown powder did used to be produced prior to Tar but it was classic heroin #4 that simply hadn't been run through activated carbon, again sloppy product. As for the 1960s, etc, it began after WWII. Because de-colourising also boosts overall purity by up to 15% the product, called "Mexican Mud" or
"Choco-fine" by addicts, could never really compete with the French, Sicilian and SE Asian produced #4 and was rarely sold in that part of the nation.
 
The "Brown" in Europe is heroin #2, freebase. It needs an acidic catalyst to adjust the pH before injection. It is almose never seen in the US.

No shit? :)

So it's just poorly-refined #4 then? Makes me wonder why they bother with the extra step, but hey... I'm not up on cartel mentality.
 
more proof:

6-Monoacetylcodeine (6-MAC) is a toxic acetate ester of codeine in which the hydroxyl group on the 6 position has been acetylated. It is occasionally present as an impurity in street heroin and is typically created when attempting to create heroin from a solution of morphine in which some of the codeine from the original opium solution still remains.


source-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcodeine

Need I go on?
 
it isn't #4, it is #3 dissolved with lactose, heated, filtered and crystalized...according to wiki
Way easier than making #4 as it can be done in any kitchen
 
No shit? :)

So it's just poorly-refined #4 then? Makes me wonder why they bother with the extra step, but hey... I'm not up on cartel mentality.

European brown is #3 heroin base. It is rarely above 60% at the kilogram levels according to variuos Interpol articles I have read although there are obviuoisly kilos of #3 available that are above 80% or so.
Mexcian brown ,the real Mexican Brown is #4 and has been around for decades before tar was ever thought of.. According to source articles in the late 1970's up to 80% of all powder In Chicago during that time was #4 Mexican Brown. It is still available in Chicago and Kansas City although it is cut to 20% or something by the time it hits the streets there.

In New Mexico, and parts of AZ. I have gotten the real Mexican Brown #4 a few times about 2 years ago, and no matter how much hot breath you try to blow on it, it stays powder and snorts like regular #4 powder does. It was originally made in the Mexican state of Sinaloa mainly, and I think becasue of that caretles dominance on drug importing into Ariz. and NM areas, this is a reason why mexican brown #4 powder is available there although tar is prevalant except in some areas of these states,where powder is the prefered mexican heroin type becasue it is as high as 80% pure on retail levels according to DEA and NDIC reports. The tar in these areas of New Mexico mainly is about 70% tops at retail levels, which is very potent for mexican heroin,
But due to the proximity of Mexican border and the drug trade across the border being controled there by the Sinaloan Cartel, where the original #4 Mexican brown powder was produced,I think this is why it is of such purity and availablity In New Mexico and southern Ariz.
 
European brown is #3 heroin base. It is rarely above 60% at the kilogram levels according to variuos Interpol articles I have read although there are obviuoisly kilos of #3 available that are above 80% or so.

I think 80% would be pushing it, though I'd love it to be true.
 
Robatussin: Wikipedia is entirely consumer generated and consumer edited. In fact I happen to have been the original author of the piece you are quoting so do us all a favour and relax. If you actually care about learning, do a serious bit of research into "Homebake" as well as basic chem. IF you actually do so it should become clearer to you.

#3 heroin is extinct. All it was though, was #4 that was then mixed with potentiatiors (caffeine, barbitone), flavours (vannilin, quinine, strichnine, essence of rose) and dyes (red, grey, etc).
 
Others: Use the search engine on site, over the last decade I have outlined the Heroin Numbering System in great detail.
 
i think someone is a little worked up here... You wouldn't claim to be the author of what I quoted and dismiss it as speculation, unless you are actively engaged in spreading misinformation. Also are you the author of all three articles i quoted?
 
It's getting harder to import drugs through the border, I read. It's a good move by the mexicans if it's similar to the east coast powder because than they could reduce the bulk and still smuggle the same percentage of heroin over the border.
 
I think what the man meant is that anyone can write somthing for wikipidia. The truth is first hand knowledge is king.
 
I explained to you that I am the original author to show you that anybody who wishes to can register at Wikipedia, author anything they wish, and that anybody who wishes to can then come along and change it to say anything they want. Though it can be useful for secondary sourcing via citations it means absolutely nothing in terms of factual information.

As for claiming I spread misinformation, you could easily prove that by actually posting a real source as opposed to a worthless collection of opinions like Wikipedia. Anyone imagining that Tar isn't heroin...or that says Tar is "#3 with lactose" (actually saying that is just sad) ought to check themself at the door and not start tossing out advice in a harm reduction site.

If you understood the process of acetylisation you wouldn't be spouting ridiculous nonsense like, "Tar isn't heroin." MAM-3 and 6 are part and parcel of ALL illicit heroin. 6 comes from hydrolysis, 3 from incomplete acetlyisation under less than optimum circumstances (using acetyl chloride and heating sans reflux for far too short a time).

"Small varying levels of heroin." Tar can have purity in the 8th percentile, the highest purity recorded was 87%. "Monoacetylcodeine" is found in any heroin that has been manufactured from poorly synthesised morphine (basically all except SE Asian).

#3 Heroin has a caffeine content of at least 50% though the technical definition is 60%. This is because it is actually heroin hydrchloride (at the POM, point of manufacture) but intended for smoking. You cannot effectively smoke #4. To smoke a powder its melting point and its vapourisation point have to be very closely aligned. If #4 is left in its natural state its melting point is far lower than its vapourisation point so that it burns before it can vapourise and be inhaled. Caffeine raises the melting point if combined in the right amounts.

More than simply adding caffeine though, flavourings like quinine, strychnine, vanillin, etc. are added. SE Asian Heroin began life in the licit phamaceutical factories in and around Shanghai and Tsientin, China in the late 1920s. The factories used to produce flavoured tablets that could be effectively smoked in opium pipes. Trying to capitalise on opium addiction the manufacturers did their best to mimic the opium experience.

As some might know, in SE Asia aspirin powder is combined with prepared opium because smokers mistakenly believe it potentiates opium. Trying to get that same same chemical taste, quinine and strychnine were used in the tablets. The tablets were also branded in much the same way as heroin in the Northeastern US is (though in the US it is merely a rubber stamp upon a glassine envelop) via colourisation and inactive flavourings like vanillin and different perfume extracts (essence of rose, etc).

The Japanese Occupation put an end to the tablets and the factories that made them. Much of the Shanghai mileu moved to the then British colony of Hong Kong. By the early 1950s the remnants of the Chinese Nationalist Army who hadn't been evacuated to Formosa (later renamed Taiwan) began to go native. The northeastern hill country of Burma (now Mynammar) had almost a century-long involvement in the opium trade due ro British manipulation, though at that point the trade was entirely illicit and for an export market. After initial forays into opium export some enterprising ethnic Chinese began manufacturing powderised heroin.

Not long after, the manufacture of #3 began. Since tablet presses were rare at that time they simply gave #4 a steambath and pressed it through screen mesh to create uniform oblong kernels that resembled rice (after first combining the heroin with the potentiator/flavouring/trademarking admixture I described.

By the 1960s #3 was nearly the only form used by addicts on the mainland though on Hong Kong (especially Kowloon) had a small IDU population using #4. Outside of SE Asia though #3 only found a market in Amsterdam, West Germany and Paris. In fact Amsterdam's infatuation with #3 was the primary factor behind the current innundation of Western and Central Europe with #2 Heroin (but that is a different subject).

By the very early 1980s it fell from popularity in Europe as #4 became cheaper (originally #3 was much cheaper than #4 due to its much lowet purity). More importantly, SE Asia's domestic market radically shifted towards #4 as well. The last recorded seizure of #3 that I am aware of was in 2005. From the late 1990s until then it held onto a tiny market share in Malaysia (Pattaya). Co-incidentally that is also the last place in which Heroin #1 was found as well. Times change.

(Edited for spelling)
 
Last edited:
It seems like it is time for another synopsis of the Heroin Numbering System. The system was invented by the American DEA right after the agency was born in the very early 1970s. It did not make much sense when it was conceived and makes even less sense now;

Heroin #1: This form is not even heroin but rather morphine hydrochloride produced as a commodity in and of itself as opposed to it merely being a minor step in the overall process. It was found primarily in SE Asia but in the late 1960s until the mid 1970s was also produced in SW Asia (the Turkish/Syrian border region within Kurdistan). When you manufacture heroin you do not need to salt your morphine, coloured freebase works just as well BUT the more care taken in this step determines the overall character of your final product. #1 made it easy to do large runs by producing uniform bricks of almost pure hydrochloride. Branded by mechanical stamping, probaly the best know brand was "999."

Heroin #2: This is heroin freebase. When you manufacture heroin, immediately after acetylisation you are left with an acetate that is almost worthless for consumption, though technically a salt. You then convert the acetate to freebase. Ideally you then salt it but producers in SW Asia learned early on that they could stop at that point and still have a viable commodity.

Freebase took root in Amsterdam at the end of the 1970s due to the city's love with #3. Because the melting point and vapourisation point are closely in synch in #2, one doesn't need to add a thing to smoke it. It can be inefficiently insufflated (snorted) as is because the salinity in your nasal mucous automatically adjusts the powder's pH, but for injection you do need to manually adjust it. This is done via an acidic catalyst. In the 1980s we used to use pieces of lemons or limes, simply squeezing a few drops of fresh juice but this is a terrible practice. Anyone injecting it should obtain small packets of citric acid in powder form. Harm Reduction centres in Western Europe hand them out for free.

Heroin #3: Refer to my preceeding post where I ecplained this form.

Heroin #4: The technical definition is heroin manufactured expressly for IDU (intravenous usage). However, the system pre-dates the existence of Tar so that Tar, for all intencive puposes is relegated to this category. It is actually heroin acetate, though manufactured by the crude process I described above.

(Edited for spelling)
 
Last edited:
I know we all have our beliefs, but I am gonna add some information that has come to me via first hand experience. I have only ever had SE Asia heroin #4. Believing what I read made me think this stuff was not able to be smoked without adding caffeine. I was proved wrong and realized that this can be vaporized on foil without adding anything to aid the smoking process. If I were asked about this a year ago I would have said it couldn't be done. It can and I would gladly show anyone how to chase the dragon with east coast #4
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top