Harm Reduction Cold Water Extraction (CWE) Mega Thread & FAQ v2.0

[tyler5]

i remember when i started CWE'ing my 8/500 co-codamols. and drank the rancid 480mg down and gulped grapefruit juice along. then came the very light warmness like a blanket but nothing i had heard or described of other opiates. i continuned it for 2 years or so, 1.5 year doing it 2-4 times a day, 2-3 packs at a time then (360mg 3 packs or 240mg if 2 packs).
then i found 3-methylfentanyl and the rest is history. i am a recoverying junkie with a 120ml methadone habit which i will be for the rest of my life (because i want to). i also use benzos violently 30-50mg/xanax day. i dont use only xanax, different stuff, valium, lorazepam, temazepam, estizolam, triazolam, flunitrazepam, bromazepam, brotizolam and so on.
but if converted to xanax rates it comes down to 40-50mg/day. crazy that he uses 120mg meth and 40mg of benzos and walks around like nothings happening. this is me in September 2012. Im 25.
oh, and methadone and benzos and nodding? fugget about it. i took 20 1mg xanax 40 10mg diazepam of the best brand (apaurin) and NOTHING. no nod, no nothing. just a small smile on my face and the ladies looked a lil more beautiful. i will have only one nod. the nod that take sme away.

 

[Laughing Man]

Once upon a time I allowed myself to get used to taking 20 mg of Xanax a day.
Too much to abruptly stop but due to a variety of factors and some good luck the psychiatrist I was seeing at the time allowed me to work out a deal where I was able to taper off over about one month.
I know if I had access to more prior to the intervention I could see getting up to the dosage you reached but I'm glad I couldn't.
Many years later I am on 10 mg of diazapam three times a day and have been at that regime for about 10 years. I can stop(due to running out) without experiencing any withdrawal that I notice. I am prescribed 2 X 100 mg of MS Contin, 3 Somas and 4 X 10/325 hydro/APAP per day so I imagine they help me avoid noticeable benzodiazapine withdrawal symptoms but in my old age I generally stick to my prescribed doses. I don't get high on this maintenance regime but it does prevent me from sensing the full depths of my severe chronic pain problem.

 

[Ksa]

I have some important update: I have successfully associated the browning of CWE solutions with formation of oxydation products, and not bacterial growth. While adding ethanol or propylene glycol and refrigerating the solution prevents bacterial growth, it also prevents oxydation because they are reducing agents and cooling down reduces the reaction rate, which was one of the reasons it was hard to tell in between oxydation or bacterial growth.

Oxidation is, similarly to how an iron bar rusts into a brown oxide, solutions can "rust" too and the oxyde will likely be brown. It basically turns alcohol groups (-OH) into carbonyls (=O). This is how to prevent oxydation:

- add reducing agent such as ethanol or propylene glycol
- keep away from light (but solutions can brown in total absence of light too)
- refrigerate to slow down the reaction

It is probable that the -OH group on codeine is oxidized into a =O rendering the whole thing more potent but I wouldn't give it a shot since there's alot of crap in there too after that much time.

 

[FlippingTop]

the brown shit smells SOOOOO bad.

I found a flask that I had used to CWE a while back and there was this disgusting dark brown liquid in it... I could not work out what it was until I found the same shit in a pipette I had also used.

 

[Ksa]

Update:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT7FaFoVui0

 

[tentram]

I have some important update: I have successfully associated the browning of CWE solutions with formation of oxydation products, and not bacterial growth. While adding ethanol or propylene glycol and refrigerating the solution prevents bacterial growth, it also prevents oxydation because they are reducing agents and cooling down reduces the reaction rate, which was one of the reasons it was hard to tell in between oxydation or bacterial growth.

Oxidation is, similarly to how an iron bar rusts into a brown oxide, solutions can "rust" too and the oxyde will likely be brown. It basically turns alcohol groups (-OH) into carbonyls (=O). This is how to prevent oxydation:

- add reducing agent such as ethanol or propylene glycol
- keep away from light (but solutions can brown in total absence of light too)
- refrigerate to slow down the reaction

It is probable that the -OH group on codeine is oxidized into a =O rendering the whole thing more potent but I wouldn't give it a shot since there's alot of crap in there too after that much time.

how did you reach the conclusion it's (the brown gunk) oxidation and not bacterial growth? you left that bit out.

 

[Nine North]

have a CWE question, did my first ever extraction this morn, used very small amount, just 2 10m/350 percocets cause first time and didn't want to waste pills. While every thing worked fine though it took longer to kick in than thought (almost 20 mins on an empty stomach except for coffee) did feel extremely nauseated afterwards, lasted 10-15 mins. It wasn't that gag nausea from the bitter taste, it was that nasty knot in the stomach feeling, it was pretty bad, is this just normal for an extraction? It shouldn't be a tolerance thing, have been on a 50 fent patch and 40-60mgs oxycodone/day for years, I do have stomach problems though, gastritis from an old acid reflux surgery that needs to be redone.

Anyway just wondering if that nausea is normal or are some of those fillers and APAP buffering the pill, only reason experimenting with CWE is for faster onset for the bad pain times, just wanted to see if it'd help. That nausea was gross so if it's pretty normal or due to stomach problems won't bother to keep experimenting.

 

[Laughing Man]

I can't imagine any reasons why your CWE concoction would cause any gastrointestinal problems if the whole pills do not.
Maybe you were just having a bad day or were anxious about taking your preparation?

 

[Nine North]

I wasn't anxious at least not that was aware of, have read up plenty on CWE, the extraction looked perfect, I made sure it was a small dose etc, but who knows, maybe I was secretly more nervous than I thought. Once it kicked in it provided better, more immediate pain relief than taking the pills, so I'll probably try it one more time the next time feel some breathrough type pain coming. If I get really nauseated again then I'll scrap the idea as just one of those things that don't react to well, somehow bugs my guts or whatever. Just curious if anyone knew of something I'd missed reading about CWE/stomach

 

[xrx]

So I've been a long time dweller on these forums, and they've been a ton of help to me in quite a few respects over the years. I wanted to contribute something that I feel may be very useful to bluelighters from a harm-reduction PoV concerning APAP toxicity.

It is commonly known that the toxic metabolite of APAP (NAPQI) is processed through the cytochrome P450 path. Some may also note that this is the same pathway that many attempt to inhibit in the process of opiate potentiation by taking, for instance, cimetidine, concurrently or prior to taking their DoC.

In the 1980s and 1990s there was actually a fair amount of medical research done on the potential benefits of taking cimetidine in order to limit the toxicity of acetaminophen. Summarizing the findings of these papers indicates that a healthy dose of cimetidine, shortly before or shortly after, a large dose of acetaminophen assists in limiting the amount of the toxic metabolite created after such doses.

It seems that this information has largely been lost to time due to the fact that from a medical practitioner's standpoint, APAP overdose often presents with known or unknown overdose of benzo's or opiates and adding cimetidine to that equation is not desirable for obvious reasons.

TLDR: If someone is worried about the amount of APAP being consumed they may consider adding cimetidine to a regimen of oral n-acetylcysteine, taking the cimetidine prior to or concurrently with the APAP.

Mods: please feel free to move this post to any place that you feel would be helpful : )

 

[v_fulcher]

Question on cold water extraction for hydrocodone

I was reading about CWE for Hydrocodone and mostly got out of the thread that it is done so you could remove the Tylenol and other poisons. Is that all CWE does or does it make the Hydrocodone more potent and last longer and also give more euphoria? Or is it done strictly to remove the unwanted products. Also what is the minimum amount of pills of Hydrocodone you can use to do it. I also read to be very careful because it could be dangerous. I'm a little confused because why is it more dangerous than taking the pill orally. Whether you take it orally or do the cold water extraction you still get the same stuff so why do you have to be careful. Tha only thing I can come up with is that people who do the cold water extraction do many more pills that regularly so that would put a lot more Tylenol through your liver. Am I right. Is that the reason you must be careful.

I would like to try it but what I've read kinda scares me. Thanks for any replies

 

[Ksa]

Tylenol...is rats poison. It destroys your stomach, causes rebound migraines due to anti-inflamation, destroys your liver and kidneys and is no good whatsoever.

 

[areros18]

I need an idiots guide to CWE. I have only found 5/235 & 7.5/325. My usual happy dose of hydrocodone is 70 mgs a pop. I will die of liver failure before I catch a high on those tiny pills. Can anyone help me?

 

[Captain Brewster]

So I've been a long time dweller on these forums, and they've been a ton of help to me in quite a few respects over the years. I wanted to contribute something that I feel may be very useful to bluelighters from a harm-reduction PoV concerning APAP toxicity.

It is commonly known that the toxic metabolite of APAP (NAPQI) is processed through the cytochrome P450 path. Some may also note that this is the same pathway that many attempt to inhibit in the process of opiate potentiation by taking, for instance, cimetidine, concurrently or prior to taking their DoC.

In the 1980s and 1990s there was actually a fair amount of medical research done on the potential benefits of taking cimetidine in order to limit the toxicity of acetaminophen. Summarizing the findings of these papers indicates that a healthy dose of cimetidine, shortly before or shortly after, a large dose of acetaminophen assists in limiting the amount of the toxic metabolite created after such doses.

It seems that this information has largely been lost to time due to the fact that from a medical practitioner's standpoint, APAP overdose often presents with known or unknown overdose of benzo's or opiates and adding cimetidine to that equation is not desirable for obvious reasons.

TLDR: If someone is worried about the amount of APAP being consumed they may consider adding cimetidine to a regimen of oral n-acetylcysteine, taking the cimetidine prior to or concurrently with the APAP.

Mods: please feel free to move this post to any place that you feel would be helpful : )

Hey, that's pritty interesting. Would cimetidine be the only potentiator that does it?

I usually use dxm, and cyproheptadine as my potentiators. Would think dxm wouldn't help the liver much.

 

[areros18]

Hey, that's pritty interesting. Would cimetidine be the only potentiator that does it?

I usually use dxm, and cyproheptadine as my potentiators. Would think dxm wouldn't help the liver much.

Quick note; I found this bit on Wiki under adverse effects "Cimetidine is also known to potentiate the effects of several opioids which are partially metabolized via the cytochrome P450 pathway via inhibiting their metabolism and a temporary decrease of liver function due to reduced hepatic blood flow. This can lead to extreme plasma levels of these drugs and can easily lead to a fatal overdose.[18]"


It also stated about potentiating SSRI's .. SSRI Syndrome?
And causing hormonal birth control to fail.

Mods move if necessary.

 

[areros18]

I take a prescription nightly dose of Prilosec and all I found was this: "Omeprazole is a competitive inhibitor of the enzymes CYP2C19 and CYP2C9, and may therefore interact with drugs that depend on them for metabolism, such as diazepam, escitalopram, and warfarin; the concentrations of these drugs may increase if they are used concomitantly with omeprazole."
I also take Diazampam.

 

[areros18]

Lets just say I'm flying 16 hours to another hemisphere. Ill CWE all my tiny 5/500 into a water bottle. Add crystal light and carry on with me for a pleasant flight... Possible??

 

[Steven_Tyler77]

Lets just say I'm flying 16 hours to another hemisphere. Ill CWE all my tiny 5/500 into a water bottle. Add crystal light and carry on with me for a pleasant flight... Possible??

What is crystal light?

I guess it's possible to do so, but take care. A CWE solution will last like 3 days in the fridge, even less at room temperature. It easily spoils because of bacterial overgrowth. It's never happened to me, as I always drink it right after extracting it, but I know this from a very experienced opiate user, who has helped me very much when I entered the drug scene and whose knowledge I respect a lot...

 

[areros18]

What is crystal light?

It's powdered ice tea. Usually sugar free. All the weight watcher moms drink it.
I've tried CWE before and never felt a buzz.
Ill have to try it out before I leave.
Carry some pills in my carry on in ibuprofen containers. I have tons of other RX stuff so I doubt they'll look at tampons, APAP, lozenges.

 

[areros18]

I wish there was a way to CWE and preserve in olive oil or something edible that would not allow air to corrupt or diminish the effects. Anyone? Butter??