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Mephedrone being called Methamphetamine in a field test during arrest?

L

LouDogLBC

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Sep 4, 2010
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My friends monkey was arrested with m-drone and police at the station said that it was positive in a field drops test for methamphetamine. Is there any way that either a synthesis impurity contained trace amounts of meth, or, more likely in my mind, that the Simons reagent (that i suspect was used, drops test turned blue) was as well known about amphetamine field tests, gave a false positive for a substance that has a (not very IMHO) similar portion of the molecule (i.e., the methylated portion, as i understand is the difference between mda and mdMa, of maybe even methanol??) that it picks up on, that could give this result?
Also, getting a GC/MS test when i get the money, through a private lab instead of the state lab, should the police though have used more reagent tests, like marquis etc??? they might not have had a positive result if the combination of color changes didn't match the resulting colors for methamphetamine?
As an aside, my state doesn't have any meth, its literally not available(new england, it never caught on here, the crack epidemic is still in control of those types, they don't want anything else)
BTW, have any of you heard of an m-drone arrest in the USA, specifically, I have searched my states laws and there is NO ANALOG LAW in the statutes, they wont go fed with it will they? Thanks all, I love you guys and I will look forward the the intellectual responses that I know bluelighters have to offer. ;~}
 
Mephedrone does test positive for amphetamine yes, never heared they were doing tests on monkey's now tough.
 
When I had my first seizure last year, the police took my digi scales away and tested the white powder on it. The only thing I have ever weighed on those scales was mephedrone, yet it came back as methamphetamines and the police thought I was a large-scale speed dealer, which gave me some trouble over the next few months. Meph was legal at the time.

Im sorry though, I cannot help you on the scientific reasoning for this occurence.
 
Your friends monkey, yeah? No need to use such ridiculous code-language, it doesn't protect you from any judicial consequences anyway...

With regard to your question, yes, it is very likely that a Simon's reagent-based field test for methamphetamine will test positive with mephedrone. It is the amine-part of the molecule that causes the reaction, and that part is equal for mephedrone and methamphetamine, according to the general equation:

[Fe(CN)5NO]2- + 2 RR'NH --> [Fe(CN)5NHR2]3- + R2NNO + H+​

Could be that the exact color is slightly different, but cops ain't artists... In any case is a field test not sufficient to arraign someone; GC/MS or NMR (probably the former) is required to confirm resp. reject the finding of the field test!
 
Thanks, and..

I have to say thanks to the posters who commented, especially the last poster; however, you say they can't arraign on just a field test?? How is this so? The friend was in jail for over 2 weeks while his family made his bail, and they arraigned him the very next day! Also, still can't tell if using a mecke, marquis test would have differentiated the two subs, maybe someone with m-drone, m-amp, and the two reagents lying around could do an experiment? because if they fucked up... Anyway good looks on the aforementioned people, hope to get more insightful answers soon! ;)
 
Just get a new monkey 8)

Controlled substances are always at least federal, I thought. Considering meph is a cathinone analog if they find evidence it's prepared for human consumption I'm sure they'd figure a way to stick it as cathinones if they don't just say amphetamines?
 
BTW, have any of you heard of an m-drone arrest in the USA, specifically, I have searched my states laws and there is NO ANALOG LAW in the statutes, they wont go fed with it will they?
Click to expand...

Last I checked, North Dakota is the only state to explicitly prohibit it.

The DEA states on its website that mephedrone may be an analogue of methcathinone according to the federal analog act. I don't know of any action on that opinion.

Then there's the FDA:

LOUISVILLE, KY – Samuel David Mingo, age 22, of Louisville, Kentucky, in Jefferson County, pleaded guilty on May 17, 2010, to distributing 2,5 dimethoxy-4-ethylphenthylamine, or 2CE, United States Attorney David J. Hale of the Western District of Kentucky announced today.

2CE is a synthetic, psychedelic drug that can cause profound hallucinations, and has been compared to LSD. 2CE is currently unscheduled by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, and it is not approved for use in the United States by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

Mingo admitted that between June 2007 and May 2009, he received 2CE in interstate commerce and distributed it for pay, even though it was mislabeled because its container did not provide directions for use.

The maximum potential penalties for Mingo are 1 year imprisonment, a $1,000 fine, and supervised release for 1 year. The case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney David Weiser, and it was investigated by the Food and Drug Administration, Office of Criminal Investigations, the United States Postal Inspection Service, and the Louisville Metro Police Department.

The plea was entered before Jennifer B. Coffman, Judge, United States District Court, Louisville, Kentucky. Mingo is scheduled to be sentenced before Judge Coffman on August 16, 2010, at 2:00 p.m., in Louisville, Kentucky. Co-defendants Sean Gregory Metivier and Sean Porter King, also of Louisville, are scheduled to go to trial beginning June 21, 2010.
Click to expand...
(which you'll note: any RC will fit that definition)

Lastly, search for "mephedrone" in the Legal Discussion subforum and you'll find anecdotes of people arrested with mephedrone, only to be charged for cocaine when the lab results came back!
 
It will test as mephedrone when they get it to the lab. Highly unlikely the feds have any interest unless you were dealing the stuff on fairly large scale. It will probably be either dismissed or amended to something like "presenting non-controlled substance as controlled". That is how it's worded in my state, and it's a class A misdemeaner here. That obviously varies by where you live.
 
Be careful - they took out a well-known meph vendor here in Colorado by intercepting his shit, it field tested for meth, and they booked him for meth and nobody has heard from him or the guy who through him under the bus since. Zrambo or something of the sort.
 
Hyperthesis said:
Your friends monkey, yeah? No need to use such ridiculous code-language, it doesn't protect you from any judicial consequences anyway...

With regard to your question, yes, it is very likely that a Simon's reagent-based field test for methamphetamine will test positive with mephedrone. It is the amine-part of the molecule that causes the reaction, and that part is equal for mephedrone and methamphetamine, according to the general equation:

[Fe(CN)5NO]2- + 2 RR'NH --> [Fe(CN)5NHR2]3- + R2NNO + H+​

Could be that the exact color is slightly different, but cops ain't artists... In any case is a field test not sufficient to arraign someone; GC/MS or NMR (probably the former) is required to confirm resp. reject the finding of the field test![/QUOTE]

QFT
Click to expand...
 
Hyperthesis said:
[Fe(CN)5NO]2- + 2 RR'NH --> [Fe(CN)5NHR2]3- + R2NNO + H+​
Click to expand...

so the nitroprusside will add a nitroso group to any non-tertiary amine?

I'm trying to understand the chemistry there: to see the mechanism of the reaction
 
@235360287471352662: The relevant publication about this topic (if you happen to have access) is "Recent Chemical Studies of Sodium Nitroprusside Relevant to its Hypotensive Action" by Butler and Glidewell (funny name =D) in: Journal of the Chemical Society 361-380 (1987).
The mechanism is a combination of a (formal) redox-reaction and ligand-exchange-reaction. The following two schemes should explain everything:

1. General mechanism for primary and secondary amines:

Tertiary amines as well as sterically hindered amines do not react at all resp. so slow that the reaction can not be used for forensical purposes.

2. The mechanism in detail with oxidation numbers of the participating nitrogens added (for clarity, positive numbers in green, negative numbers in red):




@DexterMeth: I have no idea what you wanted to say. Would you mind to explain, please?
 
that is beautiful Hyperthesis. Thanks.

(p.s. imagine the irony of a cop testing GABA powder only to inadvertently transform it to GHB =D)

Hyperthesis said:
@DexterMeth: I have no idea what you wanted to say. Would you mind to explain, please?
Click to expand...

He screwed up the bbcode. His post simply says:

QFT
Click to expand...

Quoted For Truth
 
Simons only tests for a secondary amines... Not for amphetamines at all. You'd need both marquis and simons. Which STILL wouldn't be 100% accurate.
My buddy who is a cop actually told me that, at least in this area, they don't use the same kits we use. Their kits actually test for less.
 
FadingGlow said:
Simons only tests for a secondary amines... Not for amphetamines at all. You'd need both marquis and simons. Which STILL wouldn't be 100% accurate.
My buddy who is a cop actually told me that, at least in this area, they don't use the same kits we use. Their kits actually test for less.
Click to expand...

The cops mostly use NIK brand test kits (or similar), the NIK test book says to use test U for Methamphetamine and MDMA. Test U is just simons reagent. If the solution turns blue its considered a positive per the NIK test instructions. Lots of RC's among other things will turn blue with simons leading to an arrest. Although the NIK manual says test A (Marquis) should be performed prior to test U and the combined results used, I doubt it is regularly done in practice. If the NIK manual were followed, it would be clear that it was not a positive for Methamphetamine or MDMA. Someone in a legal bind may want to discuses this with their attorney.

The sample may then be tested by a crime lab likely months later after hefty bail and pre-trial restrictions have been put in place. But lab testing likely wont happen unless they are persuing the case or don't expect you to readily plead guilty. Its actually quite silly for anyone with a understanding of basic chemistry that a simple reagent test meets the standard of probable cause for an arrest, but who needs probable cause, this is America after all....

You can find a chart of the NIK Polytesting system at http://image.bayimg.com/gadbmaadb.jpg

NIK Test U: http://image.bayimg.com/hadbbaadb.jpg
 
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