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Thread: Ketamine- A safe drug?

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    Ketamine- A safe drug? 
    #1
    Ex-Bluelighter
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    Has anybody seen Karl Jansens new book on the subject? My friend has a copy but im yet to read it, although some of the quotes he has been telling me from it sound promising. ie. he says that there is no evidence to support that taking even ten times the dose needed to anaethatise someone is in any way physically harmful, and that if one was to abuse any drug ketamine would be the safest.
    I was also interested to read Rick Strassman refer to Jansen in his book about DMT, claiming that it has neuroprotective qualities and that the brain releaseas ketamine like substances at moments of high risk, ie. a stroke, in order to protect the brain in case it manages to survive the experience. This led Jansen to hypothesise that near death experiences may be a result of the psychedelic side effects of the ketamine like substances.
    It has certainally made me rethink my attitude towards this fantastically warped drug and thought it may be of interest to others.
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    "At this stage of human evolution those who aren't on psychedelics aren't, in fact, truly human"
     

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    #2
    Capsule
    lucid...i do enjoy k, its fun and interesting, in the right dose. yes you can take up to 10 times a regular 'dose', but why would you bother? you'll just be unconcious, you won't be tripping or anything whilst unconcious, it'll just be like having an operation at a hospital, and you'll prolly freak out your friends and they'll take you to hospital anyway. as far as K being safe, long term use doesn't have a lot of dangers that have been identified. i know a strange form of paranoia is fairly noticible in regular users, just basically everyday occurences taking on unusual and sometimes earth shattering meanings, that sort of thing. i also understand that the limited research done on this points to the fact that you don't have to be that regular a user. check erowid for all the above sort of imnformation.
    in terms of physiological problems, i always thought K was a good rec. drug because when used every now and then, it was fun, and did no real damage to your body (i mean, its used in people still!) BUT this was recently proven terribly wrong by a friend in biomed. unfortunately i don't have a link to such information, but aparently it takes certain enzymes in your body to break down ketamine once its job is done. the problem lies in the fact that there is only a certain amount of enzymes in your body, and they do not replenish themselves, so basically once its all gone, the ^^above^^ sorta shit starts going on because your body can't break it down. this is also an explanation for why it doesn't take overly heavy use to cause long term pyschological effects. i'm really sorry i dont have links/references for this stuff, but its from medical/biomed/neuroscience journals, and searching through them can be a bitch at the best of times.
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    #3
    blufluffybunny
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    I asked my GP friend about this. Ketamine is the safest drug you could use BECAUSE it is designed for humans. And the doses you need to 'have fun' are no where near the amount that would put you to sleep. and even 10 times that amount IS safe (but lets face it... you spend that much on K why do you want to pass out) So... from my source.. He says K is safe and will not hurt you.
    But as they say..everything in moderation right?
     

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    #4
    Lightbulb
    shit...rereading the above i realised a few things. firstly, if anyone knows any more about the enzyme thing, even contradictory stuff, please say so, cos i hate posting up medical stuff with nothing to back it up! secondly, i said i find K fun, and i didn't really mean fun in the usual sense. thought i'd post up this little bit of sense from 'The Ketamine Konundrum'...
    The most profound impact of Ketamine is it's effect on time. When becoming "emergent," time begins to slow to a shuddering, thugging crawl - each moment stretches out into a sea of infinity and rolls sluggishly into the next. Seconds become minutes, minutes become hours, and eventually, in the peak, time ceases to have any meaning whatsoever. One enters a state of "eternity". This is not an eternity in the classic sense - meaning "now" stretched on until the end of time - but "eternity" in the singular sense, when all branches of linear time bend in on themselves and collapse into a timeless and eternal state of simultaneous existence.
    In "eternity" all events, actions, and interactions of the past, present, and future coexist simulteneously in one solid state. Not only can you see the "domino" cause and effect relationships between events which exist in close temporal and spacial proximity, you can also witness any event reverberating and iterating throughout the entireity of space and time. In "eternity" it becomes apparant that all events are simply shadows and echos of one massive primordial event or "proto event" which occured or occurs somewhere outside of linear time and 3-D space. It is not an event which occurs and ends - as we perceive events in linear time to do - but it is an "eternal" event, one which is constantly happening everywhere all the time which we are all a part of. Every action, event, sound, energy tranferrence, etc., are all just ripples of this singular event unfolding in a timeless, fractiline structure.
    couldn't have said it better myself...
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter
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    how much does k cost in melbourne ??
     

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    #6
    blufluffybunny
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    I dont know if its safe to answer that question.. but out of pure harm minimisation (as in I dont want you to get ripped off)
    I'd say it goes for APPROX $200 p/g
    That's from my experience. Shit.. maybe Im getting ripped off..... hehe
     

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    #7
    Ex-Bluelighter
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    im about to have some k tonight, ive never really railed it before to my knowlegde, now ive read erowid, and it says about 75-100mgs is a strong dose, now the stuff i have is pure! what state in ur opinion will 100mgs take me to?
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    *****i Am ThE tRiBaL ALiEn*****
     

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    #8
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    haven't really read anything about ketamine b4, and really can't when i've got shitloads of work to do... but here's a couple of interesting links.
    there's a heap of info about ketamine and schizophrenia tho... basically i think they reckon ketamine might lead to the development of some thereputic treatment for schizophrenia.
    Ketamine has been reported to primarily block NMDA receptor complex giving support to a glutamate deficiency hypothesis in schizophrenia.
    NMDA receptors respond to the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate, and are known to be important for normal memory and cognition. Because drugs affecting NMDA receptors (such as ketamine or phencyclidine (PCP)) can cause schizophrenia-like hallucinations and because neuroleptic drugs, including clozapine, can inhibit their occurrence, it has been suggested that NMDA receptor dysfunction may cause schizophrenia.
    so there you go. pretty brief... not sure if it all makes sense... but should actually do my own work
    and a couple of articles -
    http://www.biopsychiatry.com/glutamate.htm
    http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ketamine.htm
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    "...still the angle to a girl who hates to sin..."
     

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    #9
    Post
    This is post made by all the other drugs K fiends and it makes pretty clear how damaging k can be on your mind.
    http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum19/HTML/007393.html
     

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    #10
    Lightbulb
    A strong dose of Ketamine is about 100mg of pure powder. 150mg is about as much as you'd want to take without freaking out too much. At about 150mg you get fully immersed in a world you believe is real, and that you'll never escape from. 100mg is good to still keep a grip on who you are but still get a nice "story" going. 50mg will give you a bit of a bump, some nice tunnel vision, and a funny walk! The amount you take will influence the time you are on it, but about 100mg will be over within 1.5-2 hours, with another hour or two to get over that "jet lag" or "I've just had a major operation" feeling.
    Prices for pure K powder (a snow white powder that looks like fine crystals, almost like table salt) are about $200-$240 depending on who you know. It is not as popular or as easy to get as pills or speed for some people, so a price of $230-$240 is considered acceptable just to get your hands on some. Again, it depends on who you know.
     

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    #11
    Thumbs up
    Start with small bumps first, 50mg perhaps. Work your way up to a dose you feel comfortable with. Ketamine is a strong disassocitive and can disortientate you easily, perhaps you'll control of your trip and not like it so much. So start low, dont throw yourself into a 100mg trip as a first user.
    Ketamine is certainly a drug of set & setting, so perhaps a quiet surrounding with a few friends will probably work best here. I wouldn't call it a party drug for most people (then again theres exceptions like myself) so take it easy with the K, and learn your dose
     

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    #12
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    a safe drug???
    can anyone who has used it really honestly say that such a mind bending, world twisting, time warping drug is safe??
    fuck that! how much bullshit can you tell yourself?
     

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    #13
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    How can you judge how bad a drug is by how much it effects your mindset...fat tony??
    Seriously, that is just silly. Anesthetics have enough power to knock you out cold.. Does this mean there bad for you??
    Im sure most Anesthetics taken in "lower than knock out" doses would give some "mind bending" effects.. Bulbs for example??
    Speed which has little effects as far as "mind bending" but can be VERY harmfull to you knoggin. So where is this logic coming from.? Oh. And as far as the emzyme theory goes, I can not beilieve that until someone shows me some info on this.. SOunds way wrong to me.
     

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    #14
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    I had K for the first time about 6 months ago and had it with someone who knew what they were doing, had it before etc. I asked to be put in the K Hole..... I LOVED IT! I had it on it's own, which ain't that great. It's best taken when you're out pillin and you have a bump here and a bump there, not too much, just enough to feel floaty on your pill..... it's great!!!!! Don't know how safe it is or not but is truly any drug 100% safe???
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    What's the difference between fantasy and reality?
     

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    #15
    Post
    Ketamine may be safe in the sense that you probably wont die after having a line. But it's dangerous because it can fuck with your head quite severely, both mentally, and physically (olneys lesions, aka tiny holes in your brain).
     

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    #16
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    i cant believe you havnt posted in this thread yet Mr. Horse... you fiyakkan k whore :P
     

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    #17
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    because most of us use substances here people often try to justify their usage to make themselves feel better. the mentality goes "we ALL do it so it can't be that bad can it??"
    we need to remember that drugs will always have negative effects as well as the positive effects we use them for. the idea that ketamine has no side effects is bullshit no matter how much science you throw at it.
    i could tell myself that bcoz i eat bananas, MDMA has no neurotoxicity on my brain... lets try and keep things realistic people.
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    #18
    Bluelighter
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    isnt it horsetranq or something?
    correct me if im wrong coz i dont know!
     

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    #19
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    If you're curious to know about ketamine - just look it up on Erowid, or search here for the information ... the search button is up the top.
    Ketamine is a dissociative anaesthetic which has both human and veterinary uses.
    www.erowid.org --> plants & drugs --> ketamine vault
    BigTrancer
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    Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Shoot.
     

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    #20
    Bluelighter
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    Fat Tony for a 'moderator' you're proving to show that maybe you're slightly uneducated in the debate on Ketamine.
    "I eat bananas so I must cancel out the effects of MDMA" is such a pathetic call.
    This is a 'harm reducing site'. Everyone's gona do drugs here and if you spent the time to 'educate' yourself on the use of Ketamine then maybe you may be able to introduce some valid points into this thread. Other than that, fuck off!
     

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    #21
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    i strongly advise you read this article on dissociatives...
    http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health1.shtml#i
    well said fat tony.
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    wisest is he who knows that he does not know...
    [This message has been edited by apollo* (edited 17 September 2001).]
     

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    #22
    Post
    Just don't take that last article post as the gospel and perhaps with a pinch of salt. I'm not saying its inncorrect I'm just saying there doesn't seem to be much evidence to back it up otherwise, then again there isnt much evidence to say for the case either way so.. meh.
    You are taking a risk no matter what you do, I guess its important to see how big that risk is, but everything in moderation. Once again reinforcing the whole dosage/repeat usage type statement.
     

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    #23
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    KEVIL - have a quick re-read of fat tony's post and then analyse what you wrote.
    BigTrancer
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    Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Shoot.
     

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    #24
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    hey all,
    I know SFA about K, having intentionally never tried it myself, however I feel the need to inform you that an associate of my was rushed to hospital on sunday night after consuming a large quantity of K within a period of 2 hours.
    I have little knowledge of exactly how much he had but it was enough to keep him in hospital over-night. The fact that he was using K as a chaser to his extreme consumption of E and whizz over the weekend probably had something to do with his hospitalisation.
    silly boys. when will they understand personal limitations??
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    ad summam virtutem
    ~reach for the highest stars~
     

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