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Thread: day 2 heroin withdrawal

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    #26
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    Yea it has DXM too. It used to have pseudoephedrine but it was too easy for tweekers to make meth with is since it was already in a powder.
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    #27
    dxm doesn't re-set the clock or lengthen withdrawal too badly, if at all. if provides very mild withdrawal relief, but at your level, it will provide some. You can't really get an opiate type high at all on it. If it helps, I'd say take it, I wouldn't worry about increasing withdrawal.

    edit: forgot about the pseudo being gone... unless you get the kind from the pharmacist (IE "behind the counter" not "over the counter"). i used to like that for minor withdrawal...
    Last edited by socio; 29-12-2010 at 20:23.
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    #28
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    I place near my house does outpatient detoxing and they give you bentyle,clartin, Clonodine, And neurotin Ive done it a few times it actually works. they also give you seroquel to sleep. alot of those are common meds.
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    #29
    Bluelighter KidNapster's Avatar
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    awesome, knowing that i shouldnt have problems increasing withdrawal time or anyhing by taking clonidine and such im gonna continue to take it. i have less pain in my lower back and legs today, but i do feel very weak and kinda dizzy. might be also cause i havent ate much.
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    #30
    Bluelighter Paulycodone's Avatar
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    I've never done heroin and I don't IV opiates, but I have a crazy tolerance (320mg oxymorphone insufflated to nod off). I've only been taking opioids since october 13th, but I'm already on opana ER 40mg 2/day and opana IR 10mg 2/day as needed. I would like to learn more about opiate withdrawal, and will check on the internet more, but whatever you all could tell me aside from what you've already said here will help. I have gotten myself off the opana a couple times, and all I had was like 1 sleepless night and a couple hours of severe hot/cold sweats, to the point where I couldnt tell if I was hot or cold. I went cold turkey off of xanax at 8mg/day for a year, and that detox was probably the worst experience in my life...I've been on xanax/klonopin since 2001, and now my body needs at least 1mg/day of klonopin to avoid anxiety/panic/and seizure like symptoms that become worse in intensity everyday. I'm sure heroin IV is harder to come off of than insufflated oxymorphone, as diacetylmorphine (heroin) is absorbed so quickly by the body and can create some of the most powerful euphoria possible...so I've read...my IV use is limited to cocaine and methamphetamine, and only did it a couple times since my veins are so deep and I need a very experienced person or phlebotomist to do it, even with a tourniquet.

    So, KidNapster, I hate to make you think about the symptoms you're going through, although the clonodine seems to be helping. If you lived in south california id give ya some other non-opioid things that would also help with the withdrawal, unless you're taking low doses of opioids to make the withdrawal less severe.

    Anyway, aside from anxiety, physical pain, hot/cold sweats, and depression? maybe? What are all the withdrawal symptoms and what is the longest the physical withdrawal can last?

    Thanks man, hope you're feeling better soon-
    Paul
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulycodone View Post
    nyway, aside from anxiety, physical pain, hot/cold sweats, and depression? maybe? What are all the withdrawal symptoms and what is the longest the physical withdrawal can last?
    Those symptoms are the main ones. That, stomach problems, and the sleepness. They're somewhat similar, since for both the misery of not having slept for 7-10 days is comparable.
    Having experience with both, I think withdrawal from xanax 8 mg/day is probably more uncomfortable than most withdrawals from small-to-moderate heroin or other short-acting opioid habits, but that's just my opinion. At least coming off herion I've never passed out and fallen down stairs or passed out and fallen in the shower. Clonidine helps with both.
    The duration of withdrawal depends largely on the drug's half-life (not just dose and how long you were on it). Heroin and oxycodone have short half-lives, so the withdrawal is more intense and lasts only a week or so. Buprenorphine (e.g. Suboxone) and Methadone have long half-lives (24-36 hours), so the withdrawal can last more than a month (as in, you may not sleep more than 1-2 hours continuously for that long).
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    #32
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    congrats on your decision to quit bro. i no it sux now but itll be sooo worth it once they completely disapear in a day or two. your doin the right thing, i got 37 days clean now from a iv heroin 3 bundles a day and it feels great to be clean. no suboxone this time, it was the 1st time to detox and w.o an opiate in 6 years. loperamide is a godsend and going to rehab will help man. go to NA or AA meetings and i no it sounds dumb but work the steps and listen to people. it could save your life, it saved mine.
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    #33
    Bluelighter KidNapster's Avatar
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    What socio said is right, those symptoms are what I'm going through. I've heard benzo withdrawal is reeally bad, prob not even on the same level as opiate withdrawal. That totally makes sense that suboxone withdrawal would last longer and so I'm kinda happy I decided to end with heroin instead of suboxone. Thanks for the advice teque, that's some heavy use, I've IVed but actually I was snorting it this time around cause I couldn't give in to the needle. You're right though, I'm on day 4 and really feeling a difference, its an insentive to keep going as well, thanks guys

    Edit: oh as far as rehab goes, unfortunately since I got busted with heroin over the summer, it looks like the courts will most likely mandate me to rehab/treatment court which I guess is best for me anyways rather than having an A misdemnor on my record. Heroin is something they don't take lightly here on Long Island, NY anyways :/
    Last edited by KidNapster; 30-12-2010 at 17:00.
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    #34
    Bluelighter Paulycodone's Avatar
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    Heroin isn't taken lightly in most places around the globe, lol.
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulycodone View Post
    Heroin isn't taken lightly in most places around the globe, lol.
    Haha true dat, but most places lighter than in America. 'Cept fer maybe Singapore and such. I went out to score dope & rock in London & asked people if I could go to jail for it there (was on professional business & wouldn't b able to get bail, much less keep my career). People laughed at the question. In Amsterdam my friend & I were snorting coke & dope outta my hand in some alley, saw a cop car coming, panicked & sucked & licked it up like maniacs as fast as possible. Cops drove by, rolled down the window & laughed at us stupid Americans, standing there, powder & spittle smeared faces -- hahaha still cracks me up! "Haha those Americans must think drugs are a crime!"
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    #36
    Bluelighter KidNapster's Avatar
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    socio that truely is an epic story hahahaha! Socio have you ever heard of needle park in switzerland? i know its been outlawed for quite some time, but im still guessing theyre more lenient in Europe as you say :P Yes here in NY, we have big shipments coming in from Brooklyn serving alot of Long Island (where i live) and my county (nassau), is seeing this as an epidemic and is fully concentrating on getting rid of it. theyre not as concerned with weed, psychedelics, etc, theyve had it with heroin and want it out so of course theyre giving me a hard time even though i got caught with one bag.. oh btw on im day 5 and feeling really good! i gotta thank all you guys again for giving me hope and giving advice through the worst of it. Its great to have opinions and help from people who are more accepting and wont just tell me to "deal with it junkie"
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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidNapster View Post
    damn really? i was hoping to be able to be an occasional user after all this, but you think thats just not possible, even with willpower?

    I forgot to mention i have a one time script for Clonodine. will this help at all for withdrawals?

    Maaannnn......I'm on day 28 of withdrawal and still sore at at night......I still have RLS and ache in my arms and calves...............I've used H for the past 3 years, constantly daily.

    I seriously doubt you'll be able to just 'dabble'.........What happens is you'll use.....use a bit more.....etc.........and you're hooked again........Trust me, I've been there.......Aint no such thing as a halfway junkie!!! You either go all the way clean, or it's pointless for you to even be withdrawling right now. Hero is just too good to use occasionaly.

    The only way you're gonna be able to be cool and party when you want to is to be on Subox........But I don't suggest it.......my friend has been on Subox since it came out and he's a total waste........

    It's rugged times getting through the 'drawl'......but I just think to myself daily that if I was hardcore enough to use, then I'm hardcore enough to fight the pain.....but that's just my M.O.

    Definately soak in the bath.......it helps wonders.........Also you're potassium levels are probably zapped, so you need to supplement.........Benzo's will definately help you sleep.

    Good luck mate.......

    Cheers.

    Benway189
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    #38
    Bluelighter ch1nawhite's Avatar
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    Listen bro, i have some help for you, but man you have to understand
    Your coming off of a heroin binge, its not suppose to be pleasurable, it is going to be the EXACT opposite (and more worse) than being high off dog.
    (Skip to the BOLD UNDERLINED words to skip the story, i strongly suggest you read it though..)
    dog will put you to sleep, DT's keep u from sleeping. you kick ur legs and shit like a fish out of water at night dont you? well i was on heroin about a year ago, and was way far off worse than you are. i shot $100-200 of dog a day. that was my occupation 100% was to be the driver. I did this job all day, every day for about 2 years, driving the biggest dealers in my town, all across the 'great' state of ohio, so needless to say, aside from buying my dope, i was given approx 100$ of pure dope just to take him on a ride ($50 worth every hour, and free gas). All my dog was from dayton ohio, and H is about the only pure/decent thing you can find in there, and its everywhere. in dayton its easier to buy a baggy of some raw chinawhite than to buy cigs or a bag chronic. coming off the chinawhite dope was actually not as bad as i thought it would be.now keep in mind i have been pronounced dead 6-7 times, off chinawhite or some regular semi-cut dog. i died 4 times just shooting 20cc's of chinawhite from its purity, and i had been doing it for awhile (needless to say, it surprised me when i od'd because i always did a small shot to see how pure it was. (OH and DONT mix xanax, lol unless you wanna see what hells like)... ok to get to the point, my DT was actually not as bad as i thought it would be. i tried detoxing about 4 times, every time i went back within THAT day or the next. the final time, i said fuck it im going through with this, it was tearing my life apart. i kept a friend with me at my house, 100% of the time. When i needed something like cigs or weed, he would go to the store for me. I layed in bed EVERY DAY for about a week, doing nothing but smoking weed, cigs, drinking coffee and playing PS3 with my dude. But that will def make ur dt much easier. Keep your mind off the dog, stay with a friend 24/7 who dont touch it, AND KEEP YOUR SELF STONED OUT OF YOUR MIND. (YOU HAVE TO BE THE ONE WHO WANTS TO QUIT, THATS THE ONLY WAY!!!) That was the biggest help i have ever found, and made dt very easy. I bought an oz of the finest chronic, and smoked J after J after J, 2 days after the OZ purchase, my dude ran up for another one... I still couldnt sleep, but im TELLING you. smoke mass quantitys of weed, and it will be MUCH easier.. i really hope this helps you man.

    -ps: im positive taking benzos will make it much easier too, along with vitamins (cant remember what they were atm), but my story above is just an explanation of what i had to go through to kick this devil. It wasnt easy, and it never is. its been 3 years (1year since i walked out of jail) and still, to this day, i think of heroin. idk if u have ever been to AA or NA, but with something as hard as heroin, you will think about it til the day you die, maybe not every day, but it will always be on your mind. you have to be strong its the only way man. just man up, take a week, a kick the shit out of it man... having a trustworthy friend with you 24/7 is also a biiiiiig help, and stay busy, play ps3 or something. if you sit and watch tv you will be trying to find some dog. STAY BUSY, STAY HIGH, STAY WITH GOOD FRIENDS.

    -chiinawhiite
    Last edited by ch1nawhite; 31-12-2010 at 16:04.
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by KidNapster View Post
    Socio have you ever heard of needle park in switzerland? i know its been outlawed for quite some time, but im still guessing theyre more lenient in Europe as you say ....
    the phrase "needle park" sounds familiar. I am aware of "safe injection" facilities in some European countries and rumors that they are in Canada and Australia & its neighbors. The one European country I know to have an American-style "war on drugs" is Sweden. They're nearly as severe as the US, though not quite. Portugal -- even more than Nederland -- has completely (I believe) decriminalized drugs and it's worked for them. There's an interesting and concise article from a couple years ago in the Economist that discusses it (among many other sources of information on it).
    Quote Originally Posted by KidNapster View Post
    my county (nassau), is seeing this as an epidemic and is fully concentrating on getting rid of it. theyre not as concerned with weed, psychedelics, etc, theyve had it with heroin and want it out
    Knowing some of the research on drug use and policy in the US, I do think the "epidemic" label makes sense sometimes for drug use, but it more often fits the societal reaction to drugs much better (ah -- like you say -- they "see it as" an epidemic). There are epidemics of cracking down on drugs, giving longer sentences, media attention, etc., even when the levels of use and associated harms remain constant or even decline. The sociologist Craig Reinarman calls these "drug scares," a form of "moral panic" (good article if you can find it: "Social Construction of Drug Scares"). That's the epidemic you're suffering from!
    Last edited by socio; 31-12-2010 at 18:23.
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    #40
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    Benway: youre that far into recovery and still feeling aches and such? hmm im on day 5 and have an incredible noticeable difference and feel alot better compared to 2 days ago. didnt know heroin messes with potassium levels, or is that more of an assumption because i probably wasnt on a balanced diet while using? well anyways yes i didnt eat as much haha

    chinawhite: ive had you before :P but yea i read your story bro and thats some hard shit. i used to do the same when i had a bad coke habit. drove dealers or anyone around so get free shit, never had the chance to do that with dope. i bet youre def right about taking benzos but i couldnt get a hold of any during the first few days so i suffered but nyquil helped a bit. The weed thing isnt for me like it used to be when i was first experimenting with drugs. I used to get a nice high but if i were to try it again, id get all super paranoid, unsocial, and not enjoying myself. im weird i know and it sucks thats what happens when i smoke. i didnt even have a craving for cigs either!

    socio: yes there are definitely safe injection sites in parts of Europe where they can be overlooked, but im not too sure what else goes on there. Im def gonna look into that. About the societal view you talked about makes alot of sense about the whole epidemic thing, sociology was one of my favorites in school
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    #41
    Bluelighter Paulycodone's Avatar
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    Hi KN, I hope you're feeling better and enjoying 2011!! I've still got 1 hour of 2010 left here in So Cali lol

    Happy new year everybody!!
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    #42
    Greenlighter anjalimaya's Avatar
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    I would say that on the upside you didn't have too long of a habit - though I know that means SH*T all to you right now. I know the feeling we all have as it seems since we all have our own methods of getting through it. When i quit cold-turkey after a two year run, my kidneys failed...not to scare you but if it gets so bad just go to the ER and have them inject you with Ativan whatever lies you have to tell them. That was the only thing that allowed me to rest after three days of leg pain, vomiting, punching walls, not being able to sleep with whatever over the counter meds I took in droves. Honestly, if you are just too bad off that all you can think about is getting H, do a stimulant. I know it isn't the same but when I was coming off my second habit I was on subutex and meth to take the edge off. I hate advocating other drugs...but I know how bad that feeling is and how important it is to get through that sickness no matter what. And Imodium DOES work wonders, man.

    Good luck.
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    #43
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    happy new years to you too pauly! yes 2011 is so far treating me better being on day 7.
    damn anjalmaya, thats some serious stuff. honestly i actually was thinking the same thing on day 2 and wanting to say fuck it and go to the ER because i couldnt take it anymore. I wanted to get benzos but couldnt get any either let alone get up and take a drive. The thought came to my mind about doing coke since it was always my right hand man after heroin but that quickly faded and feared it would make matters worse. i felt exactly like that quote Leo said in basketball diaries as im sure you did, "Your nose is running, your stomach cramps, your legs feel like they've just played 6 straight games on top of eachother, and the voice is always there in the back of your head 'Just one more time, then we'll stop'"
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    #44
    Bluelighter DavisK4high247's Avatar
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    Needle park in Switzerland has been replaced by clinics where "registered addicts" go to receive pharm. heroin injections there at the clinic. Kinda like a Methadone clinic in the US, but they give IV pharm. grade heroin injections to addicts several times per day at doses varying depending on the addicts tolerance,etc.
    Most use in the range of 250 mg of pharm. heroin per day after tapering down, however I read that about 2-5% use as much as 1000mg+(1 gram) of pharm heroin per day. Thats a lotta heroin ,especially consdering it is pure pharm grade stuff.
    The use of pharm heroin will never happen in the US in my opinion. Methadone which is more addictive IMO than heroin, at least the withdrawals are longer anyway, will continue to be the drug of main use followed by the subs therapy for addiction.
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    #45
    Bluelighter KidNapster's Avatar
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    Needlepark is an interesting topic and same with all injection sites in europe. Almost done here with day 7 but I know this is gonna sound stupid but I rather ask before do. If I were to do a bag today/tomorrow what do you think id be in for?
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by KidNapster View Post
    i felt exactly like that quote Leo said in basketball diaries as im sure you did, "Your nose is running, your stomach cramps, your legs feel like they've just played 6 straight games on top of eachother, and the voice is always there in the back of your head 'Just one more time, then we'll stop'"
    Pretty accurate quote. How were your stomach cramps? I could always handle all of my symptoms up to that point, but when the cramps came in I couldn't bear it anymore and would have to get some opiates.

    Although the second worst symptom is the depression. Especially as it used to stay with me long after withdrawals had gone away (PAWS), and I found that more diffucult than the actual withdrawal in the beginning, before I learned what it really meant to be sick. Congratulations on quitting, and stay away from opiates for as long as you possibly can (hopefully forever).

    Evey time you get addicted again, your tolerance for withdrawal pain will decrease. It is much easier and much smarter to just stay away from them forever.

    If you find you are unable to go on without opiates, and are in a constant cycle of relapse/sobriety/relapse, then it is best to go on Suboxone til you get your shit together mentally.
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    #47
    im about to have to quit as well...so this thread has been very helpful....thanks for all the avice everyone even though it was not targeted towards me.

    i have tried to quit before but it sucked too much so i always relapse. i cant wait to try the liperamide or whatever...hopefully everyone is right and it helps a lot!!
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    #48
    Greenlighter anjalimaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidNapster View Post
    happy new years to you too pauly! yes 2011 is so far treating me better being on day 7.
    damn anjalmaya, thats some serious stuff. honestly i actually was thinking the same thing on day 2 and wanting to say fuck it and go to the ER because i couldnt take it anymore. I wanted to get benzos but couldnt get any either let alone get up and take a drive. The thought came to my mind about doing coke since it was always my right hand man after heroin but that quickly faded and feared it would make matters worse. i felt exactly like that quote Leo said in basketball diaries as im sure you did, "Your nose is running, your stomach cramps, your legs feel like they've just played 6 straight games on top of eachother, and the voice is always there in the back of your head 'Just one more time, then we'll stop'"

    I think that Burroughs described it the best - junk eventually turns you into what the function of opium is in the poppy plant which is to maintain it until whatever the correct terminology is like keep it preserved. It is painless, sexless, and completely focused on one thing only preservation so when you quit, your body is becoming human again and not a plant - pain, nerve endings sparked again, sexed and focused on all the stuff that you wanted to be numbed from and more. The awesome high we all love from heroin is too good to not pay a huge price. What comes up has to come down...it is the toll we pay. But even though we can reap philosophical, IT EFFING SUCKS AND IS THE HARDEST THING I DID. And you find comfort in those that know and truly understand. TRULY. Cause you can't understand it until you've been there. And then being an IV user, I mean, I was injecting water into my veins months afterward to deal with that craving. My stomach was messed up for months after. I couldn't sleep normal for months after. And literally, like a poster said above the boredom kicks in. I mean, I could watch the entire season of "Rock of Love Bus" and be entertained strung out. BUT clean? I couldn't even watch shit I enjoyed, except movies that were about heroin. Like "Candy" or "Intervention..." You just want to reach out. You want to have people know because it is so shocking even to myself when I thought about it. WOW. I am an IV heroin addict. I am not selling my body. I am not homeless. I am smart. I am capable. And I didn't respect this drug enough, heroin humbled me. It showed me that I COULD be owned by something.

    I advocated meth usage and even my subutex doctor did. He told me if I was going to use it, at least inject it because cold turkey heroin detox is flat out unsafe. So I did. And it helped take the edge off A LOT. Of course, so did the subutex but I was able to wean off that. And then when I wanted to quit the meth, I just slept for a week and ate. Just never go into a methadone program. NEVER.

    Good luck to you. And literally, that shot of ativan in the ER was like a miracle. And then clonidine, ultracets, fluids, anti-anxiety meds is how they detoxed me... the real detox is once you are out of the seven day phase. THAT is when it gets really hard. For me anyway.
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    #49
    Bluelighter KidNapster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opilover420 View Post
    im about to have to quit as well...so this thread has been very helpful....thanks for all the avice everyone even though it was not targeted towards me.

    i have tried to quit before but it sucked too much so i always relapse. i cant wait to try the liperamide or whatever...hopefully everyone is right and it helps a lot!!
    it hasnt been long since i was in that vicious routine of panicking if i didnt have dope for the breakfast, lunch and dinner so to say. Its worth it to quit though and the advice here has def helped me! Its crazy how i thought before quitting which was i couldnt bare to understand how anyone can function and be happy without taking something every single day like i did. thats being an addict for ya.

    anjalimaya thats some crazy stuff you said, everything you said just made me tingle because its so true and i truly forgot about pain and feelings and all this stuff thats supposed to be normal. i was numb mostly and didnt even realize toward the end. Im actually on day 8 now and im guessing its hard because mentally its hard now?
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    #50
    Bluelighter ch1nawhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulycodone View Post
    Heroin isn't taken lightly in most places around the globe, lol.
    haha thats the truth. good job on wantin to quit, who knows u coulda saved ur life bro. i know i did. i was pronounced dead 6 times off H od. i always got the chinawhite for cheap, mostly free since i was his driver. i know its tough as fuck bro prob one of the hardest things ive done, but one of the best too. i still think of it to this day, when i was detoxing, my biggest trigger (something that makes u think of using) was just looking at my arms. the second i did that all these heroin thoughts and images were racing through my mind. i never thought i would get over that, but shootings doesnt even sound appealing any more. i know the feeling is, the shit, but aint worth tearing my life apart again
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