Hello and an MDPV Question

Mental Kenny said:
So what do you think would happen if one was to mix pv and baking soda in a spoon, add a few drops of water and then apply eat until rerocked? Would the end product be qualitatively different from normal pv?
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No. It's exactly like the white. I've done it many times. You have to let it sit in water and air for a few days.
 
Shambles said:
^ That's exactly how I made my yellow version which was not noticeably any different at all from the white it was made from. If I can cobble together the stuff to have a crack at this process I'll definitely give it a go sometime cos tan peevee is a very attractive carrot to dangle. Many people have freebased white peevee using the baking soda method and found it to make no difference, this process does seem to take it a stage further. My complete lack of chemistry knowledge of what difference the extra processing could make has me hoping for handy passing chemistry bods to enlighten though - process seems reasonably simple (if time-consuming) but would be great to get an idea of what is actually happening too.
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I would LOVE to know what's going on. I mean -- I'm happy we can get the tan, but it's still a mystery how it happens.
 
Just tried this myself and for some reason the MDPV doesn't precipitate out when I add the baking soda. Only used 100ml of water though. What could have gone wrong?
 
hx_ said:
Just tried this myself and for some reason the MDPV doesn't precipitate out when I add the baking soda. Only used 100ml of water though. What could have gone wrong?
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Did you dissolve the pv in the water first? Was the water completely clear after it was dissolved? How much pv in the 100 ml? How much baking soda? Did you heat it?

Even without heating there should be some precipitate and some oil.

I just tried it with 10 ml of water, 200 mg of pv, 150 mg of soda, and no heating, and you can see the oil residue on the sides of the beaker, so 100 ml and cold solution should be no problem - (although to FULLY recover your pv you do have to heat it). I didn't wait for the powder to fully precipitate before I took the pic - you can see it just starting to form the slightly darker thin layer on the bottom - just wanted to see if the oil was produced and precipitate would begin.

35mgkkw.jpg


I can only assume that your pv is something other than pv.

If you do get it right, here's what it should look like after 72 hours of evaporation. (I scraped the lower half for drying for the next pic):

2enx175.jpg


Here's the lower half after drying and before grinding back into a powder:

2crr5ns.jpg


After 96 hours of evaporation you get the following. It's still very good, but not as good as the previous color:

2a0jjo0.jpg


Both of the above colored forms are highly potent. Don't eyeball dosage. If you're used to the white pv, you will certainly overdose on this stuff because it is three times heavier by volume than the white stuff. If you achieve a color similar to the first one above, then it's potency is hard to overstate. Always weigh it and never do more than 3mg at a time. 3 mg of this is not much larger than a pinhead.

A side note: heat IS required to begin the transformation. For example, if you don't heat the solution at all during precipitation you will be left with a light yellow substance that has exactly the same poor characteristics of white mdpv. If you don't provide enough heat the same thing will happen. You'll know when not enough heat has been applied because after 24 hours of evaporation your mix will have a light greenish yellow cast, with no orange tint. There will be no tan hue. It will look like this:

30idvmx.jpg


If the oil has a nice egg yolk color to it, then the heating has been perfect:

wqlp3.jpg


If the yellow-green color happens, don't worry, you haven't lost anything.. Add water, pour it back in the flask and heat slowly as described in an earlier post (two saucepans) for a couple of hours. Redo everything and the tan mdpv will appear.

There are dozens of things that can go wrong during this process - none of them irreversible. And there are a few possible end products that might look like the tan, but aren't (overheating the solution, for example, produces something, after evaporation and drying, that looks exactly like tan mdpv but merely gives massive, incapacitating headaches when bumped -- no euphoria, no high, no hypersexuality). If you run into problems I'll be happy to help.
 
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I must attempt this at some point. Probably end up destroying grams of PV before id get it right xP

Certainly worth it tho if i destroyed 5 grams of shite for even 1g of that original goodness haha
 
Just a quick question. If this process makes the pv so much better why was it not sold in this state in the first place!
 
Thanks for the illustrations - always help those of us who can be a bit hard of thinking sometimes :)

As for possible fuck-ups before getting your technique down, presumably even if it doesn't work properly you still end up with a usable substance albeit a disappointing one compared to what you were after, no? Don't see anything in the process that would cause you to potentially totally lose your initial investment of white peev cos you're not adding anything toxic or making any huge chemical changes. I've fucked up the odd coke/crack conversion in my time but however off it is it's only coke and (way too much) baking soda so at worst you've cut your own coke but can still use it. I'm presuming the same is true here and if I can assume my presume is not to presumptuous then it becomes even more appealing cos wasting your initial peevee and getting nowt would be my only real worry. Hmm...

/ramble
 
missing old pills said:
Just a quick question. If this process makes the pv so much better why was it not sold in this state in the first place!
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It was. The original mdpv was the tan version. There are hundreds of posts here on Bluelight about its superior qualities. It disappeared from the scene in 2006.
 
Shambles said:
Thanks for the illustrations - always help those of us who can be a bit hard of thinking sometimes :)

As for possible fuck-ups before getting your technique down, presumably even if it doesn't work properly you still end up with a usable substance albeit a disappointing one compared to what you were after, no? Don't see anything in the process that would cause you to potentially totally lose your initial investment of white peev cos you're not adding anything toxic or making any huge chemical changes. I've fucked up the odd coke/crack conversion in my time but however off it is it's only coke and (way too much) baking soda so at worst you've cut your own coke but can still use it. I'm presuming the same is true here and if I can assume my presume is not to presumptuous then it becomes even more appealing cos wasting your initial peevee and getting nowt would be my only real worry. Hmm...

/ramble
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No. The worst that can happen is that you end up with a substance qualitatively identical to the white HCL that you started with. Unless you way overheat it while precipitating. That will fuck it up and you can't get anything useful back. So give it a try. At the worst you will have wasted time and have to to spend time drying the failed result.
 
stuffmonger said:
It was. The original mdpv was the tan version. There are hundreds of posts here on Bluelight about its superior qualities. It disappeared from the scene in 2006.
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so why change it if it was so good? I just don't understand what goes on some times
 
missing old pills said:
so why change it if it was so good? I just don't understand what goes on some times
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No clue. Whoever made it stopped making it for whatever reason. The next manufacturers that came along started making the HCL form. They probably never tasted their product, or the original, so they didn't know any different. The original process may have been lost to the general public. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's figured it out, because I hear anecdotal evidence of it's rare availability from time to time, and it's certainly not my stash.

Anyway, I don't know why it disappeared or why no-one bothered to publish the simple steps of getting it back from the white HCL.

For me, I'm just trying to help.
 
The information posted here has been really good, worthwhile for all to read the whole thread...bump, bump, bump :)

stuffmonger %)
 
stuffmonger said:
No clue. Whoever made it stopped making it for whatever reason. The next manufacturers that came along started making the HCL form. They probably never tasted their product, or the original, so they didn't know any different. The original process may have been lost to the general public. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's figured it out, because I hear anecdotal evidence of it's rare availability from time to time, and it's certainly not my stash.

Anyway, I don't know why it disappeared or why no-one bothered to publish the simple steps of getting it back from the white HCL.

For me, I'm just trying to help.
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No you're right mate, spot on
 
kate said:
The information posted here has been really good, worthwhile for all to read the whole thread...bump, bump, bump :)

stuffmonger %)
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Seconded - Hats off to you kind sir hope to see more posts from you around here :)
 
Public//Enemy said:
Seconded - Hats off to you kind sir hope to see more posts from you around here :)
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You're welcome. I believe the world's a better place when information is shared.

The widespread conjecture that the "tan" mdpv was simply a less pure version of pv, might in fact be true. The freebase process I described might create any number of impurities. I don't know for sure. But if it is true, then it might be those very impurities that provide this awesome high. After all, the euphoric element of white pv (what little there is), lasts about an hour and a half at best. The tan pv euphoria, which is indescribably awesome, lasts 5 to 6 hours. The white pv has limited prosexual qualities. The tan pv is hypersexual to the extreme - even to the point of being labeled "perv powder" by many of its users. The white pv has a horrific comedown. The tan pv has no noticeable comedown. A 100 mg single dose of the white will keep you up for 3 days and create paranoia, depression, lethargy, confusion and a host of other negative and dangerous side effects. A 100 mg dose of the tan will merely guarantee fatigue and sore genitals from non-stop sex and keep you up for 24 hours max. And you would, quite seriously, run a danger of getting arrested for indecent behavior or molestation if you go out in public after such a dose. (not recommended to wander around in public unattended after an excessive dose of tan pv by the way). The white pv creates a strung-out, edgy feeling in moderately large doses. The tan creates a smooth hum. If you observe people who are on the white pv, there are few smiles after the first hour and a half. People on the tan pv can't get the smile off of their faces for the full 6 hours - this is a true observation. The white pv creates a highly elevated heartbeat in any dose above 20 mg. The tan pv creates only a slightly elevated heartbeat at similar doses. White pv suppresses appetite. Tan pv, after a few of days of use, increases appetite enormously. It's nearly impossible to sleep after large doses of the white without massive ingestion of one of more CNS depressants. After the eight hour ride of the tan, most people can sleep like a baby (but you of course can't sleep while the tan is "on" during that eight hours). The only similarities are dosage -- 3mg is more than sufficient for most people for both forms, and a tendency to fiending for both forms. It's hard to avoid re-dosing with both forms - which, given the potency of both, is highly dangerous - more so with the white, I feel, because of the psychological stresses incurred at high doses.

From a physical standpoint, the two forms are radically different. The HCL is snow white, the freebased is tan to dark brown. The HCl is a fine powder. The tan is clumpy. The Initial oil (pure methylenedioxypyrovalerone) is greenish yellow and lighter than water. This oil, in water an air, over time, turns dark yellow and becomes heavier than water.

So maybe there is an impurity that gets into the tan pv during the detailed freebasing process I've described throughout this thread, while simultaneously destroying most of the the original mdpv by cleaving off a carbon atom or something. I really don't have a clue.

What I've tried to do is provide as much information as I can to those who are interested in the mystery of the white/tan, while adhering to the rules of this forum. Not an easy task, but I hope I've succeeded to some small degree for those people who read between the lines and sit back and think about this for a while.

As an aside, one thing I was hoping for as a result of these posts was to find someone on this board who might help me determine whether there is an "impurity" getting into this freebasing process, and what that impurity might exactly be. I am not a chemist, but I do desperately need help from some clever and motivated chemist here. I am more than happy to pay for someone's time and efforts. And it might be an intellectually rewarding pursuit for someone.

To make it easier to analyse, I've returned the stuff to the salt version (mdpv? acetate - I don't like fucking with hydrochloric acid to get the hcl). I haven't mentioned it before because an effective dose appears to be less than 0.25 milligrams, and it's impossible to safely bump it without very expensive scales. I didn't want anyone to try it and hurt themselves. But someone would have done it anyway, I finally figured, so better to mention the safety issue up front. Returning it to the salt using Acetic Acid left a huge residual, which tells me that the process I described early in this thread produces a very impure substance, which is just as well from a safety standpoint. The residual seems totally inert, so it does not seem to have impacted the effects at all. There is zero difference in effect between the end product earlier described and the mdpv? acetate, other than dosage. The fact that dosage appears to be one tenth of white mdpv suggests that maybe some radical change did in fact take place at one or more steps in the freebasing process. The color of the pure acetate is also very tan as you can see. It was precipitated from a clear (no particulates), slightly yellow solution by simple evaporation using a fan:

2mcy58z.jpg
 
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