Hello and an MDPV Question

Seriously. Surely gotta be worth a Nobel prize or two if you really have cracked the tan conundrum :D

I'll forego the prize if someone can just tell me what the composition is. Maybe we can all patent it?

One of the nice things about posting on a public board, btw, is that it provides a time stamped record of stuff. If some big drug company attempts to patent the Tan (assuming that it may be a new chemical) after getting hold of a sample, then we have a record that proves we did it first.
 
ho ho ho =D

I know I am repeating myself but can someone comment on comparable doses before and after 'converting' the MDPV? Surley this would also help work out what the final substance is?

Sorry I missed your question siomehow.....

It's difficult to talk doses:

If you make the stuff using the "quick and dirty" approach and just dry it and use it, the doses are very comparable -- about 5mg is a good hit for a new user. 10 is a questionable hit. 20 is scary. But the end product, as I described in two posts above, as best I can tell contains only 5 or 10 percent of whatever the "Tan" substance is. The remainder is:

1. There's some amount of mdpv contaminant which was unreacted in the freebase process and is still in the HCL form

2. There is some amount of freebase mdpv oil present that was unreacted in whatever process transforms the the mdpv freebase oil (light green - lighter than water) into the darker, heavier oil (yellow - heavier than water) during the long heating process.

3. This darker, heavier oil is apparently the precursor to whatever this Tan substance is, and a very large amount of this oil is not transformed and is still present.

4. The sodium bicarbonate (and the sodium carbonate created through the heating) residue is substantial.

I believe that the 2006 Tan was created through the "quick and dirty" approach because the dosage generally achieved from the process matches pretty well the 2006 Tan dosages, which, oddly, closely match mdpv dosages.

Using the more complex approach (which achieves a fairly high purity I believe), a 1mg hit is excessive. A good effect can be had with .5mg.
 
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This is about the most interesting thread on here lately stuffmonger good work :) This Tan MDPV is very top of my to do list. Hopefully found an EU source selling the real tan again and by the general consensus on here it sounds lush hahah %)

If I feel its just the same as the white was I'll try your method. Going to order enough to risk loosing a little. Sounds about the best stim on the go right now to me.
 
This is about the most interesting thread on here lately stuffmonger good work :) This Tan MDPV is very top of my to do list. Hopefully found an EU source selling the real tan again and by the general consensus on here it sounds lush hahah %)

If I feel its just the same as the white was I'll try your method. Going to order enough to risk loosing a little. Sounds about the best stim on the go right now to me.

Good luck. If you have problems or questions let me know. I'll be happy to help.

As an aside, I have yet to find a supplier for the real Tan. There's lots of "tan" stuff floating around, but every sample I've tried was just really pure mdpv colored with some unidentifiable substance.

Odor is the very first clue. Mdpv has a fragrance ranging from a sweetish "chemical" smell to a dark earthy, old potato smell, depending on how it was processed and what impurities it contains. Tan, no matter what the purity, invariably smells like stale semen, and the fragrance is powerful - it overpowers anything you mix with it. When you get your tan, open the bag and immediately put you nose to it. If you don't smell stale semen, it's not real.

Now... the absence of the semen smell is a guarantee that you don't have real Tan, but the presence of the smell does NOT guarantee you have the real stuff. You can get a very similar smell (much like semen, without the "stale" overtones of the Tan -- it's fucking hard to describe smells), by taking a small amount of mdpv, dissolving it in water and heating it to 120 degrees F for about 20 minutes. The semen smell will be pronounced. Even the most pure mdpv will react this way. You can get you pv back, by the way, by simply letting the water evaporate and recovering the powder. I personally can't see why a person would ever want their pv back, other than to use it as a precursor for making Tan. But everyone to their own I guess:)
 
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I'm soon to begin! I just have a few questions, I'd love a good result to start with. At what temp do you heat the solution on the stove and about how long does it take to begin bubbling? My plan is to use 250mg of white, 175mg baking soda, and a quarter cup of water. What size pot do you find works best for the quick and dirty? A saucepan, or a spaghetti type pot? I will be putting the flask in the pot directly, not using two.

Also, what does the tan actually taste like? I was unlucky in finding pv only after the original's disappearance so I wont be able to compare, although I know it will be different from the hcl. Next, how thinly should the product initially cover the shallow dish used for the evaporating phase? Should there be any noticeable depth or no? Last question. When adding additional distilled water to the product, how much would be ideal for the amount I will be using? I am so excited I feel like i
 
I'm soon to begin! I just have a few questions, I'd love a good result to start with. At what temp do you heat the solution on the stove and about how long does it take to begin bubbling? My plan is to use 250mg of white, 175mg baking soda, and a quarter cup of water. What size pot do you find works best for the quick and dirty? A saucepan, or a spaghetti type pot? I will be putting the flask in the pot directly, not using two.

Also, what does the tan actually taste like? I was unlucky in finding pv only after the original's disappearance so I wont be able to compare, although I know it will be different from the hcl. Next, how thinly should the product initially cover the shallow dish used for the evaporating phase? Should there be any noticeable depth or no? Last question. When adding additional distilled water to the product, how much would be ideal for the amount I will be using? I am so excited I feel like i

I let the water in the pot do a slow simmer, just a degree or two below boiling. If your not sure, let the pot boil, back off the heat slightly, wait 15 seconds and then insert your flask.

I use a saucepan with enough water to come about halfway up to the water level inside your flask. This way the surface water of the flask doesn't get as hot as the precipitate so there is less chance of boiling off the mdpv initial oil that floats to the top.

The bubbling is going to begin immediately on putting in the bicarb, even at room temperature (it won't be real "bubbling" so much at first - more like fizzing). The fizzing will stop after a few minutes, depending on the shape of your flask. Wider flasks will stop sooner. Test tubes, for example, take forever. When the fizzing stops begin the heating in the near boiling water. Don't let the water level in the pot go past halfway up to the water level in your flask. As the water in the pot evaporates, add more. About 15 seconds after the first sign of bubbling appears, remove the flask. If it begins a violent bubbling IMMEDIATELY remove the flask. Let it calm down for at least 30 seconds. For larger flasks, leave out longer. replace the flask. From 2 to ten minutes into this process a thin, translucent greenish oil will begin to form on the surface of the solution. When this becomes visible, begin agitating the flask slightly each time you remove it from the heat. Visible bubbles of light green oil will rise to the surface at each agitation. Do not agitate enough to disturb the surface oil. After the oil appears, allow the bubbling to reach a point just south of what you might call boiling each time you heat -- many bubbles simultaneously and a slight surface disturbance from the rising bubbles - but not "boiling".

Continue this until the dark yellow globules appear in or just above the precipitate. If there is still a greenish oil on the surface of the solution after the heavy yellow globules appear, continue gently heating and agitating until the surface oil is no longer visible, but be cautious. It's easy at this point to destroy the dark yellow globules through vaporization, so don't leave the flask in the water for more than 15 seconds at a time.

Total time - 45 minutes to three hours, depending on factors I don't yet have a complete handle on - although, the wider the flask, the shorter the time, generally. But I would recommend a more narrow flask at first - easier to see the yellow globules in the precipitate. A large test tube is the easiest by far, and would probably guarantee a better result for the beginning cook. Put the test tube in a glass of water to keep the tube kind of upright and put both in the pot of water. Just take the test tube out of the glass and put it back in the glass during the process - don't take the glass out, it will take to long to reheat. But the process will take a longer time.

Remove the flask and let cool.

VIOLENTLY agitate the solution after cooling and IMMEDIATELY pour into the shallow dish. The dish should be wide enough that the solution is barely measurable in depth - a few millimeters at most.

When you add water add just enough to cover the mix, no more.

The end product tastes pretty nasty, to answer your question - it is a mix of bicarb, sodium carbonate, trace mdpv HCL, mdpv freebas oil, whatever the yellow oil is, and the Tan.

P.S. Since you're only using a quarter cup of water, and if you have a wide flask, there won't be enough water in the pot, if the pot water level comes up to half-flask level, to safely do this without risk of vaporizing the oils. I would suggest you place a riser in the pot - an upside down cup - whatever, that you can place your flask on, so that you can have sufficient water in the pot. Small amounts of water in a pot on a stove change temperatures way too quickly for this process.

EDIT-- Brain fart! -- Forget the upside down cup. It will rattle and become unstable from water bubbles. Use a brick, a flat stone, or something solid.

EDIT -- P.P.S. I don't know your altitude and water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. All of my work has been done at sea level. If the darker yellow globules do not appear with 10 minutes of the last visible rising of the light green oil, shake the whole mixture for 15 or 20 seconds so that the green oil is well mixed in, let the precipitate settle, and then begin the heating/removing process again. You may have to do this "shaking" a few times. This is what I've had to do if the water was less than 190 degrees F during the heating.
 
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Chemistry? Eh maybe

Hi there :) Its been about ~10 hours since I finished heating, and I hope I am on the right track..signs are good! I didn't get a signifcant amount of dark yellow, but they are there. As soon as I introduced the baking soda to the water containing 250mg dissolved MDPV there came a very strong odor of semen. Its still strong too :( I slowly heated the mixture for 1 hour and 45 minutes. I did observe the greenish oil, but the mixture shortly yellowed nicely after agitation. I don't really know how well the process is going at this point, so I am including pictures of the mixture after it was initially poured into the dish, the dried residue after 2 evaporations, ~10 hours after cooling, and a picture of a random result of lack of sleep resulting in a nice looking end product (imo) that I'm letting sit damp at the moment.

I decided it would be fun to see what heating a small portion of the mixture would result in were I to spoon a little of the ever darkening yellow liquid up and heating it until dry, then adding a small amount of water and repeating until I got the desired color. Heat helps with the decomposition correct? And that is what we are aiming for without risking the products stability through water and air instead? Meh. Its definitely not yellow! And when dry, the composition was somewhat clumpy, but easily mashed into powder. I have not tasted any, and I won't for another few days unless it heads toward dark brown.

So, I think I must have lost a fair amount in the slow heating process, but I still have some slight hope for what's left...at least its not white anymore lol. Any comments or should we withhold judgment for another 48 hours or so? Although I would like a little insight in my spoon heating experiment lol. I doubt it changed it, as you said the process with bicarb takes hours with pv. So it sits. :) Man, im looking forward to sleeping...ive gotta try to convert the last half gram ive got or i wont be for a long while yet :( Thanks for all the info and assistance!
 

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It's not looking bad. From the color of the liquid in the second evap photo, you appear to still have a substantial amount of mdpv oil in the mix. It's a tricky thing. As the oil converts it gets thinner and looks almost gone even though there may be a substantial amount there. But no worries, I can tell from the photo that you did get also get some yellow oil in there. That will convert nicely to some Tan. Because of the mdpv oil, the end product will have a background pv feel, but I think, from your photos, there may be enough Tan to overpower it. In any case, there will be enough Tan for you to certainly feel it.

Good job my friend. Don't convert the other half til we've had a chance to chat. I'd like to talk to you on the phone maybe to get a clearer picture of what you did and maybe give you some tips on how to convert most of the pv oil. Unless you like pv (no accounting for people's tastes), in which case don't worry about it.

I'f that would be helpful then message me. I don't mind paying the long distance charges. I think I'm using a stolen phone anyway.

P.S. Did the yellow oil sink? Did the green oil float? Did the yellow appear inside the precipitate or did it rest on top of the precipitate? Did the green oil clump at the surface in droplets or was it a film?

Thanks

Hi there :) Its been about ~10 hours since I finished heating, and I hope I am on the right track..signs are good! I didn't get a signifcant amount of dark yellow, but they are there. As soon as I introduced the baking soda to the water containing 250mg dissolved MDPV there came a very strong odor of semen. Its still strong too :( I slowly heated the mixture for 1 hour and 45 minutes. I did observe the greenish oil, but the mixture shortly yellowed nicely after agitation. I don't really know how well the process is going at this point, so I am including pictures of the mixture after it was initially poured into the dish, the dried residue after 2 evaporations, ~10 hours after cooling, and a picture of a random result of lack of sleep resulting in a nice looking end product (imo) that I'm letting sit damp at the moment.

I decided it would be fun to see what heating a small portion of the mixture would result in were I to spoon a little of the ever darkening yellow liquid up and heating it until dry, then adding a small amount of water and repeating until I got the desired color. Heat helps with the decomposition correct? And that is what we are aiming for without risking the products stability through water and air instead? Meh. Its definitely not yellow! And when dry, the composition was somewhat clumpy, but easily mashed into powder. I have not tasted any, and I won't for another few days unless it heads toward dark brown.

So, I think I must have lost a fair amount in the slow heating process, but I still have some slight hope for what's left...at least its not white anymore lol. Any comments or should we withhold judgment for another 48 hours or so? Although I would like a little insight in my spoon heating experiment lol. I doubt it changed it, as you said the process with bicarb takes hours with pv. So it sits. :) Man, im looking forward to sleeping...ive gotta try to convert the last half gram ive got or i wont be for a long while yet :( Thanks for all the info and assistance!
 
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It unfortunately won't allow me to send private messages to anyone other than staff until I reach Bluelighter status. You could probably message me though (I hope) because Id be more than happy to discuss it further.

Thanks again for the help. I definitely notice a distinct oily character about the mixture when water is applied. It almost seems to be made of just a yellow oil, similar to the pictures of your extracted oil, with only a little noticeable difference between the precipitate and oil. Its very hard to distinguish more than one distinct component of the mixture. I would definitely appreciate any tips you could give me on ways to convert more of the remaining mdpv oil; I am 100% positive my cooking skills and the materials I used leave a lot to be desired, but I plan on fixing that situation before I try to convert any more product.

I live in Texas so my altitude is fairly close to sea level (yay!), and I've also got free long distance so discussing it over the phone will be no problem. I'm quite the beginner when it comes to cooking chems but I am happy to receive any advice from someone who's close to perfected the process :)
 
I'm leaning toward PV lunacy with a dash of bizarre canine fucking friends thrown in. Mods can we get a poll?
 
I'm leaning toward PV lunacy with a dash of bizarre canine fucking friends thrown in. Mods can we get a poll?

There are days that I would vote with you on that.

But let's see how Truthwalker's brew turns out. I may still have a sane brain cell left.
 
Before you try to convert any more, go buy a test tube. Trust me on this. It will make the process way more assured and will only cost a few minutes in extra processing time.

Also, you are using a fan right??? On high speed?? For the evaporation part. I know I mentioned that somewhere in this thread.

Fan is critical. Don't have a clue as to why.

It unfortunately won't allow me to send private messages to anyone other than staff until I reach Bluelighter status. You could probably message me though (I hope) because Id be more than happy to discuss it further.

Thanks again for the help. I definitely notice a distinct oily character about the mixture when water is applied. It almost seems to be made of just a yellow oil, similar to the pictures of your extracted oil, with only a little noticeable difference between the precipitate and oil. Its very hard to distinguish more than one distinct component of the mixture. I would definitely appreciate any tips you could give me on ways to convert more of the remaining mdpv oil; I am 100% positive my cooking skills and the materials I used leave a lot to be desired, but I plan on fixing that situation before I try to convert any more product.

I live in Texas so my altitude is fairly close to sea level (yay!), and I've also got free long distance so discussing it over the phone will be no problem. I'm quite the beginner when it comes to cooking chems but I am happy to receive any advice from someone who's close to perfected the process :)
 
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I'll go ahead and post answers to all your questions, but is it alright if i call in about 30 minutes so its easier to discuss? There is no question my method can improve greatly, so im pretty excited it didnt just immediately ruin itself lol. Answer:

Did the yellow oil sink?
- Yes, after the hour 15 minute mark or so. The green oil appeared quite quickly as a thin film, then clumped into more droplets. At one point I did have a clear distinction between the somewhat whitish precipitate, which had kind of sunk, and the lighter greenish fluid above it, and as it sunk the hue of the solution seemed to start turning yellow, then yellow began to appear in slow forming globs above and a very tiny amount within the precipitate itself. I wonder if I heated it for a bit too long, because it was very simple to agitate the solution into a somewhat oily yellowish liquid that contained smaller globs of dark yellow that grew larger after exposure to the dish, and during the evaporation process at one point i had a thin oily yellow substance, but the yellow globs initially stuck themselves, outside of water, to the dish. it took some careful firm swirling to even dislodge them, but once dried and re-hydrated they seemed to be sucked back into the wet mix.

Did the green oil float?
- yes. But there was no green oil left at the end of the heating process. The mix was mostly all yellowish at that point. I might have let it sit in the water too long.

Did the yellow appear inside the precipitate or did it rest on top of the precipitate?
- Initially I saw the dark yellow globs within the sunken precipitate first, then nearly the whole thing turned yellow. Then the whole thing did turn yellow.

Did the green oil clump at the surface in droplets or was it a film?
- Started off as a film but shortly began to become droplets. I must have agitated the mixture too much at one point because the droplets disappeared towards the end and I couldnt see any green oil really, only a light yellowish tint to the solution. It was kind of dark, and I am somewhat color blind so I may not have been able to detect any subtle yellow-green color differences in the liquid immediately following the heating procedure. But it became obviously mostly yellowish after 9 hours or so and one evaporation.

As to my equipment, I have already planned to invest in a test tube before my next attempt, and yes I have been using a fan directly on the mix on High the entire time. Maybe its necessary to keep the molecules in motion for some reason?

Let me know if 30 minutes is a suitable time :)
 
Call anytime.

I'll go ahead and post answers to all your questions, but is it alright if i call in about 30 minutes so its easier to discuss? There is no question my method can improve greatly, so im pretty excited it didnt just immediately ruin itself lol. Answer:

Did the yellow oil sink?
- Yes, after the hour 15 minute mark or so. The green oil appeared quite quickly as a thin film, then clumped into more droplets. At one point I did have a clear distinction between the somewhat whitish precipitate, which had kind of sunk, and the lighter greenish fluid above it, and as it sunk the hue of the solution seemed to start turning yellow, then yellow began to appear in slow forming globs above and a very tiny amount within the precipitate itself. I wonder if I heated it for a bit too long, because it was very simple to agitate the solution into a somewhat oily yellowish liquid that contained smaller globs of dark yellow that grew larger after exposure to the dish, and during the evaporation process at one point i had a thin oily yellow substance, but the yellow globs initially stuck themselves, outside of water, to the dish. it took some careful firm swirling to even dislodge them, but once dried and re-hydrated they seemed to be sucked back into the wet mix.

Did the green oil float?
- yes. But there was no green oil left at the end of the heating process. The mix was mostly all yellowish at that point. I might have let it sit in the water too long.

Did the yellow appear inside the precipitate or did it rest on top of the precipitate?
- Initially I saw the dark yellow globs within the sunken precipitate first, then nearly the whole thing turned yellow. Then the whole thing did turn yellow.

Did the green oil clump at the surface in droplets or was it a film?
- Started off as a film but shortly began to become droplets. I must have agitated the mixture too much at one point because the droplets disappeared towards the end and I couldnt see any green oil really, only a light yellowish tint to the solution. It was kind of dark, and I am somewhat color blind so I may not have been able to detect any subtle yellow-green color differences in the liquid immediately following the heating procedure. But it became obviously mostly yellowish after 9 hours or so and one evaporation.

As to my equipment, I have already planned to invest in a test tube before my next attempt, and yes I have been using a fan directly on the mix on High the entire time. Maybe its necessary to keep the molecules in motion for some reason?

Let me know if 30 minutes is a suitable time :)
 
I'm leaning toward PV lunacy with a dash of bizarre canine fucking friends thrown in. Mods can we get a poll?

There are days that I would vote with you on that.

But let's see how Truthwalker's brew turns out. I may still have a sane brain cell left.

IDK, I think I'd have to side with stuffmonger here. I mean, its getting more and more undeniable that "the tan" mdpv or whatever it turns out to be does exist and is qualitatively different than ordinary pure white MDPV Hcl. Im just basing this on pretty widespread anecdotal reports of those who have tried the tan stuff, and not just here on BL.

So it would seem pretty viable that if stuffmonger is getting a tan product through his experiments, it could very well be "the tan".
 
Just read the whole thread and I am extremely intrigued by this. I have a gram of MDPV coming in the mail in the next few days and I plan on giving this a try. I'm pretty good at following directions but I am by no means a chemist. Is this something that is fairly easy to get on the first try or is it something that will take many attempts? Also, how easy is it to overheat the stuff and get a horrible, unpleasant end product?
 
IDK, I think I'd have to side with stuffmonger here. I mean, its getting more and more undeniable that "the tan" mdpv or whatever it turns out to be does exist and is qualitatively different than ordinary pure white MDPV Hcl. Im just basing this on pretty widespread anecdotal reports of those who have tried the tan stuff, and not just here on BL.

So it would seem pretty viable that if stuffmonger is getting a tan product through his experiments, it could very well be "the tan".

It seems there's a whole bunch of crazies on bl.
 
more questions for the Chemists

Truthwalker - an important note if you're going to

Why the microscope? Because, contrary to popular opinion in this forum that bacteria could play no part in the production of this substance, I am firmly convinced of the contrary. In my process, I first culture a specific Psuedomonas strain (that I am convinced, through a year of difficult trial error, is the strain responsible), and must visually confirm its volume.

It may be that Amanitadine is correct, and I am living in delusion, in which case I am certainly deluded about the bacteria as well. In the world of drugs, anything is possible.

The bacteria that I use, btw, is one of the most common in the world, and, unless you live at the South Pole, it is certainly present in your kitchen and will do its good deed for you somewhere along the lines of the "quick and dirty" process.

I have to admit stuffmonger, when you first suggested bacterial activity as being part of the process of the conversion of MDPV HCl into tan, I was doubtful. It just seemed to me like an unnecessarily complicated explanation for what was probably a purely chemical process. However, now that we've had some feedback from the chemists saying that they can't see what chemical process could explain the conversion (and particularly that they don't think simple oxidation of freebase MDPV is possible), I'm coming to agree with the bacterial hypothesis.

Then when I read your post above in which you disclosed that you had experimentally discovered the particular bacteria needed, I was further convinced. So I read the very interesting wikipedia article on Pseudomonas. What I found particularly intriguing was this part:

"Other characteristics which tend to be associated with Pseudomonas species (with some exceptions) include secretion of pyoverdine, a fluorescent yellow-green siderophore[8] under iron-limiting conditions."

Hmmm. Ok, let's check what wikipedia says about siderophores then:

"Siderophores usually form a stable, hexadentate, octahedral complex with Fe3+ preferentially compared to other naturally occurring abundant metal ions, although if there are less than six donor atoms water can also coordinate. The most effective siderophores are those that have three bidentate ligands per molecule, forming a hexadentate complex and causing a smaller entropic change than that caused by chelating a single ferric ion with separate ligands. For a representative collection of siderophores see Studies and Syntheses of Siderophores, Microbial Iron Chelators, and Analogs as Potential Drug Delivery Agents by Marvin J. Miller."

Doesn't mean much to me unfortunately as my understanding of chemistry is shamefully poor. It does lead me on to another question for the chemists though: ok, so MDPV freebase + water + air doesn't seem like it'll lead to anything, but how about if add in some of this "pyoverdine" stuff. Would that liven things up any, chemically speaking?

And another thing, it seems as if the stuffmonger process involves two different kinds of oils. Firstly, a greenish oil that floats on the surface of the mixture. Then later, a heavier yellow oil that forms around the precipitate. What are these oils? I suppose one of them is freebase MDPV, but which one? And what is the other one?
 
oh it's real alright...

It seems there's a whole bunch of crazies on bl.

Haha if you'd ever actually tried tan MDPV (and no, I don't just mean some random tan-tinted shit that a ripoff RC vendor scammed you with), you'd know that it's crazy to doubt its reality! Anyway, I've got a feeling it won't be long before this puzzle is solved (cheers stuffmonger!), and we finally find out what this stuff actually is. Once that is established, I'll be straight off to the local industrial chemist to get a few kg's of this fantastic stuff synthesized ASAP =D
 
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