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Opioids The Kratom Thread

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Most people in the U.S. haven't even heard of it, which means it may not be scheduled for a while...and its much safer than other opiates because so much is required and there are other side effects at higher dosages that turn a lot of people away, however, for people like me and a lot of other opiophiles (shameless reference to that other board, i love you guys) its quite a useful tool, so try it out. :)
 
I tried Kratom yesterday, I bought two 5 gram bags. The person I got it from had two different types. I forget what the names were but one was supposed to be relaxing and the other stimulating. I got stimulating. I took all of it over the course of an hour. It gave me a buzz that lasted for hours, but the thing is I didn't get any euphoria from it, and that's mainly what I was hoping for. It was like I felt an opiate buzz, but at the same time I was still feeling depressed and anxious, just like when I'm sober.
 
Still better than only feeling depressed and anxious. Try combining it with some benzos or a little cannabis, works wonders :)
 
after a brief period of abstinence, (5 days, it really helps to bring back the good effects of kratom, otherwise, it's basically just a WEAK maintenance drug), consumed 5 grams of what I bought as "kratom isolate extract"....it was the same consistency as my usual bali, but much darker, almost black

I would have been hard pressed to differentiate between the kratom and a different, "full agonist" opiate....I was nodding for 4 hours, extremely talkative when I was awake, had endless energy (again, when I wasn't sitting)....the only difference was slight nausea, something I never get from opiates.....it wasn't overly powerful, or unavoidable, but I could see that I was definitely near the comfortable ceiling dose for whichever alkaloid causes the nausea/?vertigo?
A-
 
I started taking Kratom roughly a week or more ago. Then, basically, it turned into a daily thing. Now, I'm drinking the Kratom tea all the time. I think I've got a problem.

I'm also on Subutex, and the bad/good thing about Kratom, is that it blends in with the Subutex nicely.

Any addiction breaking advice for the Kratom? I tried reducing my amount one day, and it worked, I got down to 6 cups in a day, then the following day I drank it heavily and have been ever since.

I keep telling myself ~ this Kratom is LEGAL like a cigarette. So, why shouldn't I use it?
 
I think kratom addiction should probably be avoided, and it will happen with extended high dosing. The mechanisms of action of kratom are not well understood, but it is apparent that there is some effect on serotonin functioning as well as the multiple opioid effects going on, and this could be an issue when quitting if you were to take kratom at high doses for an extended time (I'd say like longer than 6-8 weeks or so). If you're going to maintain on an opiate, I would probably stick with a more understood drug like buprenorphine. If you can just cut in weeks of not using the drug every so often, like use for a few weeks then stop for maybe two, etc, then you will avoid the addiction, though long-term regular use of kratom could certainly have some adverse effects... We don't really know about these, other than what the civilizations that have been using the drug for many generations claim about addicts, which is basically along the lines of anorexia, weight loss, sunken cheeks... Surely there is a cause for these symptoms within the active or inactive ingredients; we just don't know specifically yet.
 
My appetite has disappeared with Kratom use btw. Just thought I'd point that out. Maybe that explains the weight loss?
 
Kratom's kinda-stimulant effects are to blame for the weight loss, combined with the opiate stuff happening it makes a great appetite suppressant. While I can't really dig up (or think up) an exact method of action, somebody can...it is well known that stimulants reduce your appetite.

Of course, kratom affects different people differently, I get very little, if any, stimulant effect with kratom, no matter what dose I take...whereas for some people, including whoever wrote the wiki article, its stimulating at low doses and more like an opiate/sedative at high doses.

I've combined kratom with dextroamphetamine a few times with great results, its much better than combining dexamp with another stimulant like caffeine, there is a little tiny bit of stimulant enhancement but an elimination of the anxiety that comes with taking amphetamines. Of course this combination does an even better job of destroying your appetite.

catcalls, have you tried combining kratom with cannabis? That should eliminate your problem with weight loss :)
 
Oh, I smoked grit weed for like 2-3 years. My lungs are shot. I cannot inhale cannabis at all. That is one reason for the heroin use. I found crack/heroin combo much easier on the lungs.

Right now, I do not smoke the Kratom, but rather make teas from it. A few moments ago refreshed my tea bag with fresh kratom, and am feeling irie right now.
 
Crack is easier on your lungs than cannabis? This is news to me, either way, that's the method I use to combat kratom's appetite suppressing effects, when I want to.
 
^(@catcalls) I don't think he meant mix it to smoke together (could be wrong, I guess)... You can always eat or vaporize the marijuana. I'm a healthy guy... I do some pretty intensive workouts, and I could not stand the harm being done to my respiratory system by smoking. I bought a basic $50 manual (lighter-powered) vaporizer and it works wonderfully to get me high; it is just like smoking (I don't really like eating weed that often...), and feels the same as far as good effects but doesn't have the negative effects of smoke inhalation. Definitely worth looking into, IMO.

Catcalls, I also seem to remember you saying that kratom is very expensive. Have you tried swallowing the kratom in capsules, parachutes, or even with juice or milk? Basically, have you swallowed the leaf grinds whole instead of boiling in a tea? It is more conservative to eat whole, and from what I have heard, the nausea/ side effects are not really lessened by tea. Have you tried both and found that the tea works better? If so, what specifically is it about the tea?
 
Catcalls, I do apologize, pegasus had it on the money, I meant smoking while on the kratom...not combining them. Smoking 20-30 minutes after kratom consumption is the best result.
 
I've known about kratom for a while but never really gave it a second thought until I started getting drug tested. I'm kinda pissed I never found it earlier. This stuff is great. I've never used any real opiates in my life so I can't make the comparison but considering all the negative things I read about opiates, I have no desire to move on from kratom. Because of the drug tests, I really don't have a choice anyway.

I've found that kratom + JWH-250 is a great, law abiding feeling. I'm sure it's even better with weed but unfortunately, my smoking days and my kratom days never overlapped. Maybe some day...
 
I've found that kratom + JWH-250 is a great, law abiding feeling.

haha, indeed. I'm currently experimenting with a spice + cannabis + kratom combination, its quite nice, a shame you can't smoke real cannabis but its a good thing alternatives exist...

As far as the negatives from opiates, well, the only negatives I've experienced are addiction and the inability to take a shit, kratom possesses both of these, but its legal and a bit milder. You've made a good choice :)
 
Ya, the negatives I was talking about are really just the addiction and the cost. So many people post here about how hard the addiction is to shake and pills cost a fortune where I am, at least with the people I know. I know kratom can also become addicting but it doesn't seem even close to as bad as long as you use it in moderation. Also, while kratom is sweet, I'm sure the real stuff can be a lot better. But as long as I don't know what I'm missing, I can feel awesome for like <snip> and pass my drug tests. In fact, I just took like 7-10 grams of bali a few minutes ago. Already starting to feel good :)






mod note- initially I was going to leave the price comment alone but when you added a specific dose in the next line, I decided to edit it. There's no price discussion so please don't attach any prices to quantities
 
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Just a word of caution to kratom users. Think twice about redosing unless you have capsules so you don't have to taste the kratom. I took 7-10 grams a few hours ago and decided to take 2 more grams. I didn't feel nauseous at all until I tried to wash down the 2 grams. After puking from the taste, I feel good again but just figured I'd warn you guys. Kratom really does taste awful...
 
Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.
 
Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.

You must have less sensitive or a smaller concentration of tastebuds or something, eeyhuuck.
 
Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.

peyote buttons are NOTHING compared to this shit....

They are even sweet....

I like the taste of Psilocybin(mushrooms)... caus eI know where its takin me...

but KRatom.... nah son.... it's rough... but worth it
 
Kratom and other herbs

peyote buttons are NOTHING compared to this shit....

They are even sweet....

REALLY?! I've never munched peyote, but dried san pedro is the most disgusting thing to ever have touched my taste buds, much worse than kratom tea. In fact I don't really mind the taste of kratom, though many people say the more you drink it, the worse it gets and I've never drank it frequently.

What follows is a summary of my findings when experimenting with kratom, along with my finding when experimenting with multiherb teas - probably some pretty unique but fairly useless ventures!

Kratom

Kratom is a pretty nice drug, it seems to have something missing as an opiate, don't really know what exactly. I still prefer it to tramadol (by far), codeine and DHC. Nice, relaxing but also stimulating state of being. Good for sex, good for socializing, good for sleep, good for introspection even. I love smoking weed on it, which is strange because I tend to find cannabis detracts from all other opoids (excepting oxycodone somewhat).

I have HPPD most of the time, you know the fuzzing black and white you get on an out of tune TV? Sober I have this weakly across my vision but in prismatic colours with emphasis on purple, white and red. Some drugs enhance this greatly, cannabis being the obvious example. Opiates generally decrease my HPPD, kratom however enhances it somewhat (as does tramadol).

Routes of administration

Smoked

The first time I tried kratom, it came in the form of several pre rolled kratom joints. The first one smoked did next to nothing. Later, I smoked a second with friends whilst high and it was felt mildly, the main affect being a very pleasurable feeling in my back and spine, kind of a strong physical opiate sensation but localized to this area alone. It seems a waste to smoke it, though it's in no way unpleasant.

Gel caps

Next came a pack of 10 gel caps, loaded with kratom. I took the recommended two and felt nothing. On a different day we were having a barbecue outside near a lake, me and my girl both took 4 and felt nothing, until we smoked on a spliff. As soon as the weed hit my lungs, a rush of warm comfort spread throughout my body, for about 5 minutes this was REALLY pleasurable. It quickly faded to very little and then nothing, further smoking didn't bring it back.

Tea

Took a while to get this right, once prep was correct though, this worked wonders. Comes on within 20 minutes, feels like a weak opiate physically (sometimes it can feel like a fairly strong opiate physically, especially with weed and some of the combos below), and something else entirely mentally. Very little of psychological 'warm blanket' effect, more of a mood lift/ relaxed social push, almost a buzz in ways. A good dose of kratom completely nullifies the anxiety smoking weed sometimes gives me, in general weed seems to enhance all the effects of kratom, the combo can produce some nice CEV's and HPPD enhancement - to the point of vivid OEV patterning. Lovely jubbly!

About the time I was experimenting with kratom, I was also testing other legal herbs. I did a fair bit of experimenting with various combo teas, what follows is a quick summary.

Combo Teas!

Kratom + Skullcap

Skullcap is a mildly sedating herb when smoked or consumed orally. It contains alkaloids that are probably positive allosteric modulators of the GABA a receptor. Nice tasting teas, good sleep aid, very cheap - worth a try IMO. Mixed with kratom in a tea, the result is a nice sedating synergy. Skullcap makes kratom stronger and more sedating, without compromising it's social attributes. The tea is also nicer than straight kratom tea. It also added about 30-40 minutes onto the kratom duration and makes for an excellent nights sleep with pleasent dreams.

Kratom + Valerian

Note: add valerian to tea when you would normally finish making straight kratom tea, i.e. don't approach boiling with the valerian present.

This was largely the same as kratom + skullcap (valerian and skullcap have similar pharmacology), it didn't however extend the kratom duration, nor did it enhance dreams beyond what kratom normally does. I find valerian has more or less a ceiling affect, making a tea above a certain strength adds little more, this is less true for skullcap.

Kratom + Skullcap + Valerian

Pretty sedating, excellent for sleep. Skullcap and valerian are definitely additive in terms of their effects. Pretty much the same as Kratom + skullcap, but it seems like more skullcap has been added.

Kratom + Blue Lotus (Nymphaea caerulea)

Blue lotus is IMO a vastly under rated herb. Smoked, it produces a pleasant but very mild relaxation, however tea is where it starts to shine. Strong blue lotus tea is a fairly powerful sedative, for me roughly equivalent to 20 diazepam. I prefer it to benzos any day though, there is a nice placid euphoria to it, it enhances taste and smell and produces some interesting almost opiate nod type CEV's. It's also an EXCELLENT aphrodisiac, in fact sex on blue lotus is second only to sex on amphetamine for me. Wine can also be made from it, but this takes ages, tastes foul and doesn't do anything tea doesn't already do apart from making one gag.

Be careful with the dose of both when making this combo tea, start low. Kratom can be a moderately strong respiratory depressant, as can b-lo. This combo tea tastes nice with generous amounts of honey and lemon thrown in. The result is a very, very relaxing and pretty euphoric state of being. Socializing is great, music is great, reading your favorite book is great, having sex is truly wonderful. The CEV's this combo triggers can be detailed and vibrant fractals, especially when weed is added.

Kratom + Blue Lotus + Skullcap

Repeat and emphasize above warning regarding respiratory depression. Feels the same as Kratom + Blue Lotus, only more sedating to the point where it's easy to drift off to sleep.

Note: I never actually experienced any respiratory depression from any of these teas, however I'm sure the issue could be very real.

Kratom + Damiana

Damiana by itself is a mild but pleasant herb. Smoking a damiana spliff is tasty and relaxing, nothing major but it's nice. Damiana bong hits are very, very smooth and easy (same is true for blue lotus actually). Damiana tea produces a slightly atypical relaxation, like kratom though there is a slight stimulating something going on. Watching a movie is pleasant, comfortable and engaging. I found damiana tea to be a mild aphrodisiac.

Now, the combo. The actual feeling produced by the tea is almost identical to just kratom, however it seems to potentiate it slightly and make it last slightly longer. It can also make sleep surprisingly difficult and enhances the HPPD enhancement kratom gives me. Oh yeah and sex is very nice on it, but no b-lo.

(On an off topic note Blue lotus/Damiana combo tea is a wonderful aphrodisiac, only tried it once though so I can't comment to well on it vs blue lotus alone).

Kratom + Damiana + Skullcap

Feels just like kratom + skullcap. The mild potential insomnia kratom + damiana can give me was nullified.

Kratom + Wild Dagga (Leonotis leonurus)

Wild dagga is a rather odd herb, at least for me. Most of the people I tried it with found it to do nothing or be mildly intoxicating/sedating. For me it produced a very unusual, focused, introspective state of mind with no hint of sedation at all. My normal way of taking it was to smoke it, seeing as tea effects were longer lived and for some reason I was never able to pin down, I didn't really like the feel of dagga dagga beyond a certain point of feeling it, or above a certain dose.

The combo tea produced effects in me similar to kratom tea, but with the social aspect enhance. At times there was a strong desire to converse. I found this enjoyable, where as dagga dagga alone was slightly strange and not very enjoyable. The response among my friends who tried it ranged from 'feels like kratom' to 'feels like kratom but more relaxing'. Also, my gut instinct is that dagga dagga would enhance any weed induced anxieties I would have (when I was experimenting with dagga, I didn't get anxiety/paranoia from cannabis). Would be interested in knowing if this is true now, and if it is, if kratom would nullify such an effect (I think it would).

Kratom + Opium lettuce (Lactuca virosa)

Opium lettuce is another mild GABAergic, it tends to be more sedating than skullcap or valerian, but less good as a sleep aid than either. It's less sedating than blue lotus. Unlike blue lotus and skull cap, it actually works fairly well when smoked - producing a pleasant relaxation (though it burns very fast and much has to be smoked).

In terms of it's strength in me as a sedative, I would say the following

Smoked

Opium lettuce > skullcap > blue lotus > kratom

Tea

Blue lotus > kratom > opium lettuce > skullcap > valerian

Tea as a sleep aid

Blue lotus > kratom > skullcap > valerian > opium lettuce

The combo tea of lettuce and kratom seems to be identical to kratom tea, unless LARGE amounts of the lettuce are used, in which case it adds to the body high a bit.

Kratom + Skullcap (large amount) + Opium lettuce (large amount)

This is a very sedating combination that feels physically a bit more like a stronger opiate, or adding a benzo to the opiate high. Excellent sleep, nice dreams. Basically it's akin to taking a benzo with kratom, only socializing comes easier.

A friend of mine drank a cup of this whilst on ketamine and passed out with a smile on his face, no respiratory depression was noted, but he had a considerable ketamine tolerance and I wouldn't advise anyone to replicate this.
 
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