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Thread: The Kratom Thread

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    #51
    ^(@catcalls) I don't think he meant mix it to smoke together (could be wrong, I guess)... You can always eat or vaporize the marijuana. I'm a healthy guy... I do some pretty intensive workouts, and I could not stand the harm being done to my respiratory system by smoking. I bought a basic $50 manual (lighter-powered) vaporizer and it works wonderfully to get me high; it is just like smoking (I don't really like eating weed that often...), and feels the same as far as good effects but doesn't have the negative effects of smoke inhalation. Definitely worth looking into, IMO.

    Catcalls, I also seem to remember you saying that kratom is very expensive. Have you tried swallowing the kratom in capsules, parachutes, or even with juice or milk? Basically, have you swallowed the leaf grinds whole instead of boiling in a tea? It is more conservative to eat whole, and from what I have heard, the nausea/ side effects are not really lessened by tea. Have you tried both and found that the tea works better? If so, what specifically is it about the tea?
     

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    #52
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    Catcalls, I do apologize, pegasus had it on the money, I meant smoking while on the kratom...not combining them. Smoking 20-30 minutes after kratom consumption is the best result.
     

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    #53
    I've known about kratom for a while but never really gave it a second thought until I started getting drug tested. I'm kinda pissed I never found it earlier. This stuff is great. I've never used any real opiates in my life so I can't make the comparison but considering all the negative things I read about opiates, I have no desire to move on from kratom. Because of the drug tests, I really don't have a choice anyway.

    I've found that kratom + JWH-250 is a great, law abiding feeling. I'm sure it's even better with weed but unfortunately, my smoking days and my kratom days never overlapped. Maybe some day...
     

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    #54
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    I've found that kratom + JWH-250 is a great, law abiding feeling.
    haha, indeed. I'm currently experimenting with a spice + cannabis + kratom combination, its quite nice, a shame you can't smoke real cannabis but its a good thing alternatives exist...

    As far as the negatives from opiates, well, the only negatives I've experienced are addiction and the inability to take a shit, kratom possesses both of these, but its legal and a bit milder. You've made a good choice
     

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    #55
    Ya, the negatives I was talking about are really just the addiction and the cost. So many people post here about how hard the addiction is to shake and pills cost a fortune where I am, at least with the people I know. I know kratom can also become addicting but it doesn't seem even close to as bad as long as you use it in moderation. Also, while kratom is sweet, I'm sure the real stuff can be a lot better. But as long as I don't know what I'm missing, I can feel awesome for like <snip> and pass my drug tests. In fact, I just took like 7-10 grams of bali a few minutes ago. Already starting to feel good






    mod note- initially I was going to leave the price comment alone but when you added a specific dose in the next line, I decided to edit it. There's no price discussion so please don't attach any prices to quantities
    Last edited by Cane2theLeft; 13-12-2010 at 09:26.
     

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    #56
    Just a word of caution to kratom users. Think twice about redosing unless you have capsules so you don't have to taste the kratom. I took 7-10 grams a few hours ago and decided to take 2 more grams. I didn't feel nauseous at all until I tried to wash down the 2 grams. After puking from the taste, I feel good again but just figured I'd warn you guys. Kratom really does taste awful...
     

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    #57
    Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.
     

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    #58
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcalls View Post
    Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.
    You must have less sensitive or a smaller concentration of tastebuds or something, eeyhuuck.
     

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    #59
    Bluelighter oneswtwld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcalls View Post
    Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.
    peyote buttons are NOTHING compared to this shit....

    They are even sweet....

    I like the taste of Psilocybin(mushrooms)... caus eI know where its takin me...

    but KRatom.... nah son.... it's rough... but worth it
     

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    Kratom and other herbs 
    #60
    Peace
    peyote buttons are NOTHING compared to this shit....

    They are even sweet....
    REALLY?! I've never munched peyote, but dried san pedro is the most disgusting thing to ever have touched my taste buds, much worse than kratom tea. In fact I don't really mind the taste of kratom, though many people say the more you drink it, the worse it gets and I've never drank it frequently.

    What follows is a summary of my findings when experimenting with kratom, along with my finding when experimenting with multiherb teas - probably some pretty unique but fairly useless ventures!

    Kratom

    Kratom is a pretty nice drug, it seems to have something missing as an opiate, don't really know what exactly. I still prefer it to tramadol (by far), codeine and DHC. Nice, relaxing but also stimulating state of being. Good for sex, good for socializing, good for sleep, good for introspection even. I love smoking weed on it, which is strange because I tend to find cannabis detracts from all other opoids (excepting oxycodone somewhat).

    I have HPPD most of the time, you know the fuzzing black and white you get on an out of tune TV? Sober I have this weakly across my vision but in prismatic colours with emphasis on purple, white and red. Some drugs enhance this greatly, cannabis being the obvious example. Opiates generally decrease my HPPD, kratom however enhances it somewhat (as does tramadol).

    Routes of administration

    Smoked

    The first time I tried kratom, it came in the form of several pre rolled kratom joints. The first one smoked did next to nothing. Later, I smoked a second with friends whilst high and it was felt mildly, the main affect being a very pleasurable feeling in my back and spine, kind of a strong physical opiate sensation but localized to this area alone. It seems a waste to smoke it, though it's in no way unpleasant.

    Gel caps

    Next came a pack of 10 gel caps, loaded with kratom. I took the recommended two and felt nothing. On a different day we were having a barbecue outside near a lake, me and my girl both took 4 and felt nothing, until we smoked on a spliff. As soon as the weed hit my lungs, a rush of warm comfort spread throughout my body, for about 5 minutes this was REALLY pleasurable. It quickly faded to very little and then nothing, further smoking didn't bring it back.

    Tea

    Took a while to get this right, once prep was correct though, this worked wonders. Comes on within 20 minutes, feels like a weak opiate physically (sometimes it can feel like a fairly strong opiate physically, especially with weed and some of the combos below), and something else entirely mentally. Very little of psychological 'warm blanket' effect, more of a mood lift/ relaxed social push, almost a buzz in ways. A good dose of kratom completely nullifies the anxiety smoking weed sometimes gives me, in general weed seems to enhance all the effects of kratom, the combo can produce some nice CEV's and HPPD enhancement - to the point of vivid OEV patterning. Lovely jubbly!

    About the time I was experimenting with kratom, I was also testing other legal herbs. I did a fair bit of experimenting with various combo teas, what follows is a quick summary.

    Combo Teas!

    Kratom + Skullcap

    Skullcap is a mildly sedating herb when smoked or consumed orally. It contains alkaloids that are probably positive allosteric modulators of the GABA a receptor. Nice tasting teas, good sleep aid, very cheap - worth a try IMO. Mixed with kratom in a tea, the result is a nice sedating synergy. Skullcap makes kratom stronger and more sedating, without compromising it's social attributes. The tea is also nicer than straight kratom tea. It also added about 30-40 minutes onto the kratom duration and makes for an excellent nights sleep with pleasent dreams.

    Kratom + Valerian

    Note: add valerian to tea when you would normally finish making straight kratom tea, i.e. don't approach boiling with the valerian present.

    This was largely the same as kratom + skullcap (valerian and skullcap have similar pharmacology), it didn't however extend the kratom duration, nor did it enhance dreams beyond what kratom normally does. I find valerian has more or less a ceiling affect, making a tea above a certain strength adds little more, this is less true for skullcap.

    Kratom + Skullcap + Valerian

    Pretty sedating, excellent for sleep. Skullcap and valerian are definitely additive in terms of their effects. Pretty much the same as Kratom + skullcap, but it seems like more skullcap has been added.

    Kratom + Blue Lotus (Nymphaea caerulea)

    Blue lotus is IMO a vastly under rated herb. Smoked, it produces a pleasant but very mild relaxation, however tea is where it starts to shine. Strong blue lotus tea is a fairly powerful sedative, for me roughly equivalent to 20 diazepam. I prefer it to benzos any day though, there is a nice placid euphoria to it, it enhances taste and smell and produces some interesting almost opiate nod type CEV's. It's also an EXCELLENT aphrodisiac, in fact sex on blue lotus is second only to sex on amphetamine for me. Wine can also be made from it, but this takes ages, tastes foul and doesn't do anything tea doesn't already do apart from making one gag.

    Be careful with the dose of both when making this combo tea, start low. Kratom can be a moderately strong respiratory depressant, as can b-lo. This combo tea tastes nice with generous amounts of honey and lemon thrown in. The result is a very, very relaxing and pretty euphoric state of being. Socializing is great, music is great, reading your favorite book is great, having sex is truly wonderful. The CEV's this combo triggers can be detailed and vibrant fractals, especially when weed is added.

    Kratom + Blue Lotus + Skullcap

    Repeat and emphasize above warning regarding respiratory depression. Feels the same as Kratom + Blue Lotus, only more sedating to the point where it's easy to drift off to sleep.

    Note: I never actually experienced any respiratory depression from any of these teas, however I'm sure the issue could be very real.

    Kratom + Damiana

    Damiana by itself is a mild but pleasant herb. Smoking a damiana spliff is tasty and relaxing, nothing major but it's nice. Damiana bong hits are very, very smooth and easy (same is true for blue lotus actually). Damiana tea produces a slightly atypical relaxation, like kratom though there is a slight stimulating something going on. Watching a movie is pleasant, comfortable and engaging. I found damiana tea to be a mild aphrodisiac.

    Now, the combo. The actual feeling produced by the tea is almost identical to just kratom, however it seems to potentiate it slightly and make it last slightly longer. It can also make sleep surprisingly difficult and enhances the HPPD enhancement kratom gives me. Oh yeah and sex is very nice on it, but no b-lo.

    (On an off topic note Blue lotus/Damiana combo tea is a wonderful aphrodisiac, only tried it once though so I can't comment to well on it vs blue lotus alone).

    Kratom + Damiana + Skullcap

    Feels just like kratom + skullcap. The mild potential insomnia kratom + damiana can give me was nullified.

    Kratom + Wild Dagga (Leonotis leonurus)

    Wild dagga is a rather odd herb, at least for me. Most of the people I tried it with found it to do nothing or be mildly intoxicating/sedating. For me it produced a very unusual, focused, introspective state of mind with no hint of sedation at all. My normal way of taking it was to smoke it, seeing as tea effects were longer lived and for some reason I was never able to pin down, I didn't really like the feel of dagga dagga beyond a certain point of feeling it, or above a certain dose.

    The combo tea produced effects in me similar to kratom tea, but with the social aspect enhance. At times there was a strong desire to converse. I found this enjoyable, where as dagga dagga alone was slightly strange and not very enjoyable. The response among my friends who tried it ranged from 'feels like kratom' to 'feels like kratom but more relaxing'. Also, my gut instinct is that dagga dagga would enhance any weed induced anxieties I would have (when I was experimenting with dagga, I didn't get anxiety/paranoia from cannabis). Would be interested in knowing if this is true now, and if it is, if kratom would nullify such an effect (I think it would).

    Kratom + Opium lettuce (Lactuca virosa)

    Opium lettuce is another mild GABAergic, it tends to be more sedating than skullcap or valerian, but less good as a sleep aid than either. It's less sedating than blue lotus. Unlike blue lotus and skull cap, it actually works fairly well when smoked - producing a pleasant relaxation (though it burns very fast and much has to be smoked).

    In terms of it's strength in me as a sedative, I would say the following

    Smoked

    Opium lettuce > skullcap > blue lotus > kratom

    Tea

    Blue lotus > kratom > opium lettuce > skullcap > valerian

    Tea as a sleep aid

    Blue lotus > kratom > skullcap > valerian > opium lettuce

    The combo tea of lettuce and kratom seems to be identical to kratom tea, unless LARGE amounts of the lettuce are used, in which case it adds to the body high a bit.

    Kratom + Skullcap (large amount) + Opium lettuce (large amount)

    This is a very sedating combination that feels physically a bit more like a stronger opiate, or adding a benzo to the opiate high. Excellent sleep, nice dreams. Basically it's akin to taking a benzo with kratom, only socializing comes easier.

    A friend of mine drank a cup of this whilst on ketamine and passed out with a smile on his face, no respiratory depression was noted, but he had a considerable ketamine tolerance and I wouldn't advise anyone to replicate this.
     

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    #61
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Ahh the joys of botanical medicines. I agree that Blue ltous is vastly underrated. Have you ever tried a mixture of all 3 lotus flowers? Its very nice.
     

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    #62
    Bluelighter evvvvvv's Avatar
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    i have never done kratom. heard great things, but never tried it. I am on 35mg of Methadone and for the last 3 months I used heroin regularly to get high still, I stopped 3 or 4 days ago and got back to my drink with no ill effects. Just wondering what I could expect from kratom. I would need a high dose im sure....I found aplace nearby that sells it. So, let me know what you guys think would be a reasonable amount and I'll let you know what happends. Or tell me now that I would be stupid to even use Kratom as it wont do anything.
     

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    #63
    ^I wouldn't even bother. With your high tolerance and the typical shitty quality of kratom sold at local places (presumably a head shop), its not worth it.
     

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    #64
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    My Kratom arrived!

    Except i have no way of eating it, i didn't get the chance to buy gel caps yet and i also don't have a scale. I guess im going to eat like 2 spoon fulls and wash it down and see what happens. I know more or less how much will fit into a certain number of gel caps so having a scale wont be an issue once i buy the caps but im definitely not looking forward to spooning this stuff into my mouth.
     

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    #65
    I love kratom...just had some a little while ago...


    Makes me not even want to look around for opiates
     

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    #66
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    Having posted what I believe was the first 7-hydroxymytragynine trip report this site had to offer and having various experiences with different vendors etc here is what I have found.

    The ground leaves ARE more cost effective. Kratom is especially good for bupe wds because bupe does not block the effects so it's long halflife will not stop you from you starting your kratom taper plans before any real wd sets in from cessation of bupe. The 15x and similar products are somewhat stornger and more suited to the "i wanna gel cap my shit" crowd. IMO the powdered leaf with no stems etc (looks more like green or yellow coke powder than marijuana in the bag) is the best "ground leaf" you can find. However I did order a big batch that looked like a big bag of shake and it did have Major effects however that could be due to me using more product in the tea due to thinking it was inferior. I have not tried the full spectrum extract, however I would think it would lack something the leaves have as it is not known how the more than thirty some odd alkaloids synergize with one another.

    I recently ordered some JWH-018 and my experience with that reminded me of my 7-hydroxy experience....yeah it hits a receptor that the leaf does, but the leaves hit many other receptors as does "plain bud" marijuana (lol). The price for these extracts mainly based in ethanol is just too much for the amount of doses you can get from say an ounce of powdered leaves. It seems a lot of you agree and my reports range from "this just makes me want heroin more.....to "glowing". I have had crazy nods that always seem to come when my expectations are low.

    For those of you who make tea, your stomach tells you when you have had enough. You get a "full" appetite suppresant quality before the nausea if you drink too much too fast. The time your stomach feels like not drinking more is usually when the euphoric aspects set in if you SIP the tea. Please dont chug tea as this is not beer and bad side effects will haunt your experience if you trat it with the more is better attitude. There is a right and wrong way to go about this plant. Treat it with respect and it will most likely reward you beyond expectations (esp for an herbal remedy for opiate addiction). I am a member of what I think is the biggest kratom forum although i have not visited in a while and am not sure if it even still exists. I read so many peoples wonderful stories about kicking their opiate of choice which was (for reasons unknown) always called "hydro" on that site. SO many people used that term but I have a feeling it was not always specifically indicative of hydrocodone but rather a term for "my synthetic opiate of choice"

    Kratom is the best thing you could ever wish for if you want to kick and have the willpower to not let the mental craving pull you back into your habbit.

    This is my 2 cents about all the products out there, however I do like the "resin" but have not tried it enough to say if it is better than leaves for the price. I imagine that any extracted version has an added tax for having the extraction done for you. The leaves are just being distributed and no work has to be done to them to make them work "better". Therefore I am on the side that powdered and even crushed leaves with stems are the best bet for the money. Make your own "extract" by making strong...or weak tea which can be judged by the darkness of the tea in my experience
     

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    #67
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    Amber, those are some interesting combinations, I've been wanting to try kratom and valarian for quite some time now
     

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    #68
    I'm personally a huge fan of the kratom + kava combo if you have a decent kava product.

    Perhaps due to the noradrenergic effects of kratom, I tend to get muscle spasm/stiffness in my back (to which I'm predisposed to) and kava, on top of being pleasant and enjoyable to me anyway, is the most effective herbal/OTC muscle relaxant that I have found.

    Kava kava itself has always seemed to be mildly euphorigenic to me and I enjoy the cognitive clarity it produces in contrast to most pharmaceutical or herbal anxiolytics. The kava kava effects simply seem to synergize sublimely with the kratom.
     

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    #69
    Cutting down the number of Kratom teas I have in a day. From 30 a day, down to roughly 6-7 cups in 24 hour period.

    Couldn't sleep yesterday, too wired. So, had a few cups to relax.

    Not too badly addicted to it now. It is possible to get off the Kratom even after prolonged use.
     

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    #70
    30 cups a day? wow.....what did kratom do for you at that frequency of dose? How much of what kind of kratom would you use?
     

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    #71
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcalls View Post
    Cutting down the number of Kratom teas I have in a day. From 30 a day, down to roughly 6-7 cups in 24 hour period.

    Couldn't sleep yesterday, too wired. So, had a few cups to relax.

    Not too badly addicted to it now. It is possible to get off the Kratom even after prolonged use.
    It's possible to get off heroin as well after prolonged use. Doesn't mean it'll be easy.
     

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    #72
    Holy shit, 30 cups a day? How much in each cup? I'm really curious because when I take kratom, I can't take any more that a certain amount every few hours or I'll get sick...
     

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    #73
    Well, I'm not an uber kratom user. The 30 cups were made from a single tea bag with repeated dosing in boiling water. I just found that if the water turns brown, drink it down.

    So, like, I'd fill a regular sized muslin tea bag with draw string top with as much Commercial Bali powder as it would hold, and keep dosing until the water turned clear. Yeah, I'd get that sickness feeling too as well. But, it does not last forever. And after like 30 minutes you can dose again.
     

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    #74
    Quote Originally Posted by caseface99 View Post
    It's possible to get off heroin as well after prolonged use. Doesn't mean it'll be easy.
    Yes, I've done the heroin cold turkey. The rattle is quite severe, eh? Well, I remember it taking two weeks before I felt 'normal' again, but the saddest thing is that I started using pretty much straight after getting straight. Excuse the pun.
     

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    #75
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Yeah, Too bad you can't use kratom to get off kratom like im usin it to get off sub haha.

    And now that we know you were dosing with the same bag that makes it a little better.


    And we do have an button.
     

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