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Opioids The Kratom Thread

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I posted earlier today and was hoping someone would jump in and give an opinion.

"I'm wondering if, after the move is complete, I should try replacing kratom for some of the hydrocodone or if it might be better to completely switch all at once."

Thanks
 
I posted earlier today and was hoping someone would jump in and give an opinion.

"I'm wondering if, after the move is complete, I should try replacing kratom for some of the hydrocodone or if it might be better to completely switch all at once."

Thanks

Welcome to Bluelight.

If you switch all at once, there will be an "adjustment period" most likely. It won't be quite as bad as a full-blown withdrawl, but you might feel uncomfortable at the very least for a few days until your body adjusts to the kratom, and to the dosage of kratom you take.

I would recommend adjusting to the Kratom slowly in your situation, cut the hydrocodone out of the equation gradually, especially if there is no rush. No need for pointless unpleasantness, right?
 
prunella, the problem I see with this is that kratom could impact the liver in ways which aren't completely understood. In fact, one of the main issues seen in native users of the drug is something called "hepatic face", and while correlation does not necessarily equal causation, this is something I'd certainly be aware of, especially considering your position. Good luck with whatever you decide. Personally, I would see if you could talk to your doctor to cut out some of the unnecessary stress on the liver, possibly by switching to oxycodone or something similar.
 
I order from a well-known online shopping website, which I'm very surprised has Kratom -- and for only about $10 for a pound. Kratom is water-soluble, though I believe it is more soluble in alcohol. Polar solvents I think, but not quite sure. I make my own extracts because I cannot handle the taste, I simply make a tea out of the kratom as normal and boil it down to a tarry opium-looking mass. It leaves plenty of material, and I'm sure it could be refined further, but I just stuff it into caps and take it.

Don't use extracts other people made, they're mostly advertising schemes. Especially if they say something like "80X" or "100X!", it's mostly bull. Get crushed leaves or powdered leaves (I use powdered just because I find it easier to make a tea). It's pretty cheap depending on tolerance too, I use a relatively high dose but it's still signifcantly cheaper than real opiates

That sounds like a really good strategy, about how many capsules (and what size caps) of this goo will you need to equal 6-7 grams of plain leaf kratom?

Regarding the kratom available for $10 per lb, is it really on par with the stuff that is sold commercially as Bali/ etc? I've had such widely varying strains, I'm reluctant to buy anything that hasn't been thoroughly reviewed before purchasing...
 
Thanks for your replies and advice, Pegasus and Oxide! I don't feel so alone with this.

My doc would love to switch me to oxy but I have no insurance and I don't have a lot of money. He has also mentioned changing to methadone but I have heard such horror stories about those withdrawals!! He didn't seem concerned, saying that I need to be on them the rest of my life anyway and of course I haven't been honest with him about seeking a high from the meds.

I should probably be doing CWE but have never tried that. I'm really hoping to get my tolerance way down after my move to AZ and then maybe just stop the hydros altogether, and use kratom for pain and a pleasant buzz. Tramadol and OTC analgesics do absolutely nothing for me.

About 3 weeks ago, on my first kratom attempt, I did feel positive feelings and relaxation. No actual "high" but with my tolerance that would be expected. When I tried kratom again a few days later, I was just starting withdrawal symptoms in mid-afternoon. The kratom did stop the withdrawals but no buzz (again, expected). So anyway, I do have high hopes for being able to withdraw from hydros with the help of kratom. I was just wondering if I should begin by starting my day with maybe 6 norcos (instead of the 10 to 14 I've been doing--which I know is just nuts!) and then use kratom (maybe 6 grams?)in the early afternoon and again in the evening. Or alternatively, start the day with kratom and add some hydros (3 or 4 at first) later if I feel like I really need them. Unfortunately, I am a terrible decision maker when I first wake up!

I know that I need to get completely away of my expectations about the little 'bump" to my mood. That's what seems to be preventing a taper. I live alone but my college boyfriend and I reconnected about 3 years ago and he is on his way here from Thailand (of all places!) to help me with my move and driving. He had some business to attend to in the states--owns a couple of rental houses). Maybe I can get him to hold my bottle of hydros and ration them out. I feel so weak-willed and I really hate the idea of asking him to do that.
 
Does anyone have a source for, or info regarding detailed pharmacological information regarding 7-OH- mitragynine? Like degredation temps, polarity/ solvency information, etc...?
 
If I were to eat my Bali with some yogurt or applesauce would that inhibit the effect/potency at all? Every time I tnw I'll either puke or have to use all my strength to keep it down...


btw are we now able to discuss prices?
 
I have had 2 surgeries on my leg and I get a lot of pain medicine but do not want to be hooked and dependent on them everyday so I use Kratom 2-3 weeks out of month. I am prescribed opana 40s and oxycodone so I get a good high for 3 days and then again at end of month. So another words I have a high tolerance to all pain meds and Kratom well good Kratom does not make me withdraw or make me sick taking it in place of some very potent drugs. It does the trick and not only does it get rid of wds it also helps my pain and gives me energy. Best part it legal. Anyway that's my 2 cents on Kratom I'm sure it has saved my life before. Oh and you will still always want pain meds just you don't think bout them that much. But if u order make sure you get from out of country because if its cheaper here than its probably been tampered with.
 
If I were to eat my Bali with some yogurt or applesauce would that inhibit the effect/potency at all? Every time I tnw I'll either puke or have to use all my strength to keep it down...


btw are we now able to discuss prices?
BTW lemon or lime juice concentration with some oj or something acidic helps kratoms cause!
 
If I were to eat my Bali with some yogurt or applesauce would that inhibit the effect/potency at all? Every time I tnw I'll either puke or have to use all my strength to keep it down...


btw are we now able to discuss prices?

You can use yogurt, but I wouldn't use too much since food in the stomach really seems to impede absorption. For this reason I far prefer capsules!

No exact prices, but you can use relative terms. Questions like "strain X is cheaper than Y, how are the effects?" are fine.
 
You can use yogurt, but I wouldn't use too much since food in the stomach really seems to impede absorption. For this reason I far prefer capsules!.

I was gonna do capsules but then I read earlier on this thread that capsules sorta diminish the strength or don't allow for full absorption or w.e
 
^Yeah, I disagree with that. If you drop a capsule in water, it dissolves pretty damn fast. Definitely faster than yogurt.
 
Does anyone have a source for, or info regarding detailed pharmacological information regarding 7-OH- mitragynine? Like degredation temps, polarity/ solvency information, etc...?

I only had time to do a little bit of searching mu, but I did find this.

I hope it's at least a little helpful. I will keep searching a little later and update this post when I can.
 
Oxide - Tea-making destroys some of the antagonists that can cause GI upset, coupled with the fact that you are not ingesting the highly-fibrous plant matter, then it's no surprise you prefer the tea method :) Add a teaspoon of ginger to the tea and you should find minimal side-effects in the way of stomach upset. Another great way to take Thom which is easy and very effective is the sludge method - place dose in glass, add tiny bit of liquid to create wall-paper paste thick sludgey consistency which helps bind the powder to the water [as if you have tried just mixing it into liquid, you will unfortunately know that it doesn't quite work that way] then fill up the glass with more liquid and stir, stir, stir for a wee while then neck it.

OEandricearoni - Bali's, Indonesians tend to be the more sedating strains. Stimulating strains are Malaysian and Thai strains (though this is in no way an accurate depiction of their true origin....much of the Kratom comes from Indonesia and Malaysia, regardless of it's label)

You are going to want a good Bali. I can't source you, but the US can get some great Bali (as well as some questionable ethics surrounding some strains and additives, but thats another discussion) if you know where to look. There's a million and one vendors, and a lot of bunk but a lot of half-decent Kakuam available in the US.

Lower amounts of most strains provide only high enough concentrations of stimulating alkaloids, regardless of the particular abundance of agonists unique to that strain. That is, regardless of the potential to achieve a nod with a potent Borneo-based strain ("Bali"), at the lower end of the dosage-spectrum the sedating strains will afford the consumer a stimulation not dissimilar to Kava Kava, sativa-dominant Cannabis Polm and Caffeine. However, go further up to around 10-15g and you can expect some pleasant euphoric dreaminess and a sleepy intoxication with a tendency to lightly drift in and out of consciousness (I refuse to make any comparisons between Kakuam and opiates).

For one to amass the greatest benefit and achieve the most wholesome, well-rounded effect then one should adopt a multi-strain combinatory (it's my new word, hoping it catches on, you like it?) approach. Different strains can vary in effect depending on soil grown in, drying methods ( for example, many types of Green Indo are defined as such simply by being sun-dried, air-dried and other various manufacturing methods), region, maturity of specific tree and time of year. Taking this into account, the best way to get a balanced and well-rounded high with more character is to combine certain strains.
This is where the real connoisseurship comes into play, and you practice mixing and matching varying quantities of x and y strain at certain times in the high. For example, Borneo Red Vein is very warming, sedate and relaxing and takes a good 1 hour 15 minutes to come on. Couple this with a superfine, quick-acting strain with stimulating properties, such as a good superfine Red Vein Thai and you get the best of both worlds, as the RVT begins to taper off, you are greeted with a lovely, relaxing comeup from the highly-relaxing Borneo strain. There are a million and one combinations you may do and this only comes with practice - which is half the fun.
In this way, it is much akin to Coffee, Whiskey or Cannabis.

It truly is a wonderful herb - otherwise I wouldn't have spent thousands upon thousands of pounds on it.
thanks for the reply man. I've tried a couple different strains now and the enhanced maeng da i got by mistake seems to be the strongest. I ordered 4 oz of bali red vein and received 3 ounces of enhanced maeng da and 1 of bali. lucky me haha. Have you expirimented a lot with "enhanced" strains? ive tried 2 different types of bali, sumatra white vein and the enhanced maeng da, and i found i could get effects from 1-2G less of the enhanced maeng da than it would take of regular bali. I'd consider switching over to enhanced strains permanently but I'm a cheap bastard.


Just a comment on some of the above posts on this page...I'd have to agree with pegasus when he says capsules dont seem to impede absorbtion. At least this isn't the case for me. Everytime ive got kratom ive gotten capsules, but for a few days i went out of my way to empty them out and toss and wash and really didn't find it any more effective than it in the capsules, plus it was a lot more unpleasant. capsules work fine for me. It definitely does hit you harder on an empty stomach though.
 
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I have some maeng da coming in tomorrow. I know it's hard to estimate but considering it's all quality kratom, can anyone reccomend a good dose for someone who takes around 10g/Bali 2x/day.
 
I have some maeng da coming in tomorrow. I know it's hard to estimate but considering it's all quality kratom, can anyone reccomend a good dose for someone who takes around 10g/Bali 2x/day.

Half of your Bali dose brother. MD tends to whoop my ass compared to Bali, and I love it for that.
 
I have something called "Kratom Zone" Mitragyna Speciosa 15:1 extract powder & its been sitting in my closet for 7 months, still have not tried Kratom yet. One of these days I will.............I just hope im not disappointed........I think that is one of the reasons why I havent tried it yet.
 
^I believe the alkaloids oxidize relatively quickly... Not sure exactly how quickly or in what conditions, etc, but it's something to keep in mind.
 
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