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Opioids The Kratom Thread

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So it's only been 10 mins and I can tell you this stuff works! I have been taking 20mg hydro every day for 2 yrs and I havn't taken one today just to make sure. Well like I said I can feel the warm onset and it's starting to do something. Ill edit this post in 20 mins. to give another update.

So - it seems like it started to do something but then never went past that. I can tell it's not doing "nothing" but it doesn't seem to do much as of now. Its been over an hour - will redosing another few MG's do anything at this point?
 
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Equivalency?

In the name of HR, can any experienced Kratom users can give an equivalency for Kratom to real opiates?

This is for "super-grade" Kratom, which, according to Erowid:

"Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
Super Grade
Threshold 1-2 grams
Light 2-4 grams
Common 3-5 grams
Strong 4-8 grams"

I find this thread helpful and accurate, if you'd like to start there:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/564885-Opioid-Conversion-Chart
 
OK update. I definitely felt something on the Maeng Da Kraton, but it wasn't similar to hydrocodone like people say. I felt a slight warmth almost like it had pain killing attributes, but no euphoria and no real buzz. I ended up doing 6 grams then an hour later 3.5 more grams.

I think tomorrow I will try the regular Bali or an Indo. I know it takes time to appreciate Kratom, so I am going to give it a chance. I also noticed that I got pretty tired about 3 hours in to it and ended up taking a nap. I was kind of cranky actually. Lets hope that my next tries are better, I am just concerned as people say the Maeng Da is one of the better ones and I wasn't impressed. I'm sure it will just take time like most opiates do to really understand and appreciate.
 
OK update. I definitely felt something on the Maeng Da Kraton, but it wasn't similar to hydrocodone like people say. I felt a slight warmth almost like it had pain killing attributes, but no euphoria and no real buzz. I ended up doing 6 grams then an hour later 3.5 more grams.

I think tomorrow I will try the regular Bali or an Indo. I know it takes time to appreciate Kratom, so I am going to give it a chance. I also noticed that I got pretty tired about 3 hours in to it and ended up taking a nap. I was kind of cranky actually. Lets hope that my next tries are better, I am just concerned as people say the Maeng Da is one of the better ones and I wasn't impressed. I'm sure it will just take time like most opiates do to really understand and appreciate.

I actually dislike Maeng Da to be honest. I occasionally enjoy some of it added to bali for a stimulating twist, but on it's own I don't enjoy it. Indo is fairly useless too, but as mentioned above, everyone is different.

If you want a REAL kratom buzz that will make you forget about your hydros, eat a ~6g dose of bali, and maybe a little booster later on if effects aren't strong enough. Almost any bali will do, but some are better than others. Another thing you can try is using some cimetidine (Tagamet, an OTC antacid) to potentiate the euphoria, it always works for me. I take 400mg of cimetidine about 30-45 minutes before I mix bali powder in with orange juice into a water bottle. Then, instead of sipping, I chug it all at once, usually with a very small amount of food in my stomach (like half a sandwich). That way I feel the full onset of the kratom literally within 15 minutes, in full force, and I actually get a rush out of it! In the morning, when I dose up on bali, there's always a point in time where I'm sitting in my chair, usually about 20 minutes after I finished chugging the bottle, eyes closed, thinking to myself "Wow, I feel fuckin fantastic!!". Then, I go about the rest of my day a dancing, laughing, bubbly dude with beyond the most positive outlook on everything! Maeng Da has never had such an effect on me, only bali.

Try some bali and let us know how it goes for you. You say you take hydros daily, so you probably have a bit of a tolerance to opioids. There is definitely a cross tolerance.



I'm currently trying to take a break from it. I've been a little reckless with it lately, and have been using it daily for a week or so. I need to take a break to allow my tolerance to go down.
 
Could I talk to you on a personal level, outside of this post?

Ok, I need help. For 6 years, I have been on oxycodone. The last 2 years, I have been on 30mg, 3 times a day, a REAL heavy dose. I recently have been cut down to 30mg, 4 times a day and I am experiencing withdrawals. I get a f**ked up feeling that really sucks. I have an appointment on the 26th to see a doctor about addiction. Suboxone is what I think I am going to be doing. In the meantime, I purchase 100 (56mg) of Super Premium Indonesian from Kratom Supply, a sylantech company from Amazon. I took one and I was like a ZOMBIE. I seriously slept ten minutes after I took it and did not wake up for 4 hours, I was useless. I use this at night now, but was told the reason why I was sleepy is because it could of been poor quality Kratom. Poor quality Kratom is sedating at any dose. Studies show low quality Kratom hasn't developed all 25+/- alkaloids yet and contains mostly the sedating alkaloids for one reason or another, according to the newest company. I purchased 50 Superior Malaysian from KratomTherepy.com which are a little better, I don't wipe out on them, I have more energy, BUT the withdrawals are still hanging around. They sent me a sample of Superior Red Dragon which I may try when I know I will be home for awhile, just in case. My question is, has anyone had to come off that much dosage of oxy's and if so, was there a certain Kratom that worked best? Thanks for reading this and for any responses.
Michele

Hi Seattle Stranger,

So 6g of bali (taking a Tagament or antacid 30 minutes before) and chug with oj or a liquid? That will give me that energy, happiness and bubbly stuff I need so badly right now? Where do you purchase the best bali? I bought a very sedating Indo which is the wrong direction for my need. Thanks!

Michele
 
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Hey Kratom users, SWIM has just a coupla quetions regarding this substance.

1) There seems to be a good deal of confusion over the half-life of Kratom. Does anyone have a fairly accurate idea of what it might be? My friend currently takes approx. 10-15g of white vein indo on a daily basis (when he tried quitting the WD wasn't too bad, sore legs and insomnia - maybe he's lucky!) and weighs roughly 11 stones (sorry, don't know what this is in kg). His habit has been on-and-off for roughly 3 years now (and was 1st used to kick a Dihydrocodeine habit, which it did) but is now peaking at 15-25g of kratom per day for the last year just to get the sedating effects. So how long do you reckon it'll take to leave his system? Which leads me to my 2nd question.......

2) SWIM is starting a new job in 2-3 weeks and has concerns over drug testing. I know Kratom is different in it's structure from 'real' opiates but is there a chance it'll 'cause a false positive? I only ask 'cause my mate ditched good ole' MJ and enjoys Kratom for dealing with heavy anxiety. He would go to a Dr. for a Valium 'script but they'd take one look at a 30-something male living in the UK and laugh them out of their office for displaying 'drug-seeking behaviour'. My friend has looked and looked but hasn't found a definitive answer. Any help would be appreciated. :)

PS This is my 1st post so apologies for breaking any forum rules or asking obvious questions that have already been asked. Please be kind, lol!

Googly
 
Bali saved me from a downward spiral into opiods. It took away 99% of all the WD's. Very midly addictive. Use 4-5 size00 capsules when I get the craving for Oxy.
The only good way to eat the vile leaf is to order emty capsules and fill them yourself.
 
There seems to be a good deal of confusion over the half-life of Kratom. Does anyone have a fairly accurate idea of what it might be?

Well, consider that 7-OHM, the main alkaloid responsible for Kratom's opioid effects, has a half-life of 2.5 hours. Having said that, the effects from Kratom are a full package, not just opioid, just like cannabis is not just THC. Certain varieties like Maeng Da last very short with a strong stimulant rush and a bad crash. Bali is more sedating and lasts about 4-6 hours for me. Indos are weaker, but are similar to Bali, and last a bit longer. Super Green Malaysian (my favorite, along with Bali), is stimulating and sedating, and lasts for about 8 hours for me.
 
I find Kratom in capsules generally reduces the effect. I find the best way to injest leaf is making a tea then drinking it cold. With the extracts I mix well into Pineapple or Grapefruit juice and drink it quick (most X15 extract taste very bitter and vile).
 
I have never tried Kratom, but I'm very interested... I know it doesn't convert over to traditional opiates that well, but could anyone give me an estimated dose to feel "high" if my tolerance is 80-100 mg of morphine/ IV? I will probably go with Bali as that seems to be the most sedating...
 
I have been clean off of everything except alcohol since 8-11-11 due to probation. I have an office appointment on monday 10/24 and took three 30mg morphine sulfate sr today (thurs 10/20) Will I pass my urine test if I take a "detoxify brand ready clean for women"?
 
Drug testing questions are against the Other Drugs forum guidelines.
 
Does anyone notice any slight numbness on their tongue when drinking Kratom? It ins't major, but its like a numbness or something, hard to describe. Almost like when you burn your tongue, but without the pain ofcourse. Almost like just the taste buds are a little numb. Anyway I noticed it from 2 different vendors so I am assuming it's normal.

Also, I would like to know what everyone's kratom smells like. My first batch had several strains and they all smelled pretty much like tea or similar. My new batch from a different vendor of red vein borneo smells more like grass. Ofcourse they are technically leaves so maybe they have a similar smell? Still smells a little like my other Kratom but more like dirt/grass as well.

Last question - when making tea what color does your water come out? Made tea for the first time and it came out muddy brown (fairly dark, very slight hint of green)
 
Does anyone notice any slight numbness on their tongue when drinking Kratom? It ins't major, but its like a numbness or something, hard to describe. Almost like when you burn your tongue, but without the pain ofcourse. Almost like just the taste buds are a little numb. Anyway I noticed it from 2 different vendors so I am assuming it's normal.

Also, I would like to know what everyone's kratom smells like. My first batch had several strains and they all smelled pretty much like tea or similar. My new batch from a different vendor of red vein borneo smells more like grass. Ofcourse they are technically leaves so maybe they have a similar smell? Still smells a little like my other Kratom but more like dirt/grass as well.

Last question - when making tea what color does your water come out? Made tea for the first time and it came out muddy brown (fairly dark, very slight hint of green)

1. No, I've never had a numbing sensation from Kratom; seriously reevaluate your vendor.

2. My Kratom (maeng da, red vein borneo, super green malay, etc) smells like really strong tea, not like grass; again, check for more reputable vendors, as it could actually be cut with dirt or grass.

Answer my question, lol ^_^
 
I have never tried Kratom, but I'm very interested... I know it doesn't convert over to traditional opiates that well, but could anyone give me an estimated dose to feel "high" if my tolerance is 80-100 mg of morphine/ IV? I will probably go with Bali as that seems to be the most sedating...

You will most likely never feel an opioid "high" from Kratom with a tolerance that high, but you will feel the high from the other alkaloids in it. Most people can eat a maximum of 10g of super-grade Kratom, before getting eye wobbles and puking, which is relatively strong. Still, try out Kratom! You will save a lot of money, keep w/d's at bay, and you can even supplement opiates with it. 10g of Kratom and 40-50mg of oral morphine might feel like 80mg of oral morphine. Just make sure to buy from reputable vendors, preferably direct from Indonesia.
 
i heard different types of kratom have different effects. can anyone explain this to me? for example i heard that some are more stimulating than others more sedating. which ones are stimulating and which ones sedating?
 
New Here

This is my first post and I'm not really sure if I'm doing this correctly. It is actually not a reply to the last question.

I have been taking hydrocodone, first in the form of generic Vicodin and now generic Norco (10/325) for about a year and a half. My current prescription is for 6 a day but has creeped up to 10 to 14. I take the bulk of them in the morning to kill pain and get a nice buzz. I am 62 and my doc prescribes the pills for degenerative osteoarthritis. Both he and I knew that a physical habituation was inevitable but of course I've got a psychological addiction going on as well. His attitude is that I will need to be on painkillers the rest of my life anyway but he doesn't know, of course, that I am abusing them. I haven't done a lot of opiates in my life but have used/abused other drugs as well as alcohol in the past. My drinking right now is basically sipping on 3 to 4 beers for relaxation in the evenings (and to help with the hydrocodone withdrawals) and it doesn't really seem like a major issue right now.

Since my MO is to take a bunch of hydros in the morning and then 3 or 4 in the afternoon, I do start to go through withdrawals later in the early to mid-evening. I ordered some Kratom and experimented with it a couple of weeks ago. It does help with withdrawal symptoms. I use various combinations of trazodone, diphenhydramine, alprazolam and of course, loperamide to get through the night. I usually wake up several times and re-dose on the above in order to get back to sleep but I do not re-dose on hydros until the next day.

I am concerned about this. I have Hep C (found out about 15 years ago) and all these drugs/alcohol have to be having a bad effect on my liver. Last fall, I had a liver function test and my enzymes were pretty good, considering. I've had lots of depression through out my life and part of me just doesn't care. Mostly, though, I'd really like to cut or stop the hydrocodone thing. I recently retired from a part time job that involved a lot of physical activity--some lifting, climbing stairs, etc.

I am moving from Iowa to Arizona this next week and probably don't want to try to cut drastically right now. After the move, however, I am hoping to cut all of my prescriptions. I've tried tapering the hydros but I'm not very successful!!

I'm wondering if, after the move is complete, I should try replacing kratom for some of the hydrocodone or if it might be better to completely switch all at once.

This is a great web site and I feel like I am not quite so alone in all this!
 
I have never tried Kratom, but I'm very interested... I know it doesn't convert over to traditional opiates that well, but could anyone give me an estimated dose to feel "high" if my tolerance is 80-100 mg of morphine/ IV? I will probably go with Bali as that seems to be the most sedating...

Your tolerance is quite high so you probably won't get much out of the Kratom, though it will attenuate withdrawal symptons.

Trying a strong extract is probably the best way to go, a fair dose of X15 extract or Full Spectrum Tincture. As I said, you probably won't get an intense high, well Poppy Pod tea, that is a different matter, a strong tea on an empty stomach will probably do it for you, though I'd titrate upwards to be on the safe side.

Kind Regards

KHH
 
Yeah, Poppy Tea got me into opiates - i got to a point where I would refine it into pure, white crystalline alkaloids, out of like 5lbs of pods and then do it all in a couple days. I am certainly at a lower tolerance now than I was then. It just isn't worth it to me now that major auction site doesn't carry pods anymore. Too damn pricey. I found a headshop that had Kratom here, but it was hella expensive for just 3g, so I passed it up, I would really like to try some and will probably order it when I get a chance.

Is the active alkaloid(s) in Kratom soluble in water? If not, should I use a polar or non-polar solvent? I would much rather make my own extract, as I've never met a plant I couldn't work with, so I'm sure I would get it right.

Also, I have had multiple people tell me to not use any commercial extract as it really isn't very strong in comparison to how it "should" be. Is this true? Or will I just have a better chance of getting legit leaf than legit extract?
 
Is the active alkaloid(s) in Kratom soluble in water? If not, should I use a polar or non-polar solvent? I would much rather make my own extract, as I've never met a plant I couldn't work with, so I'm sure I would get it right.

Also, I have had multiple people tell me to not use any commercial extract as it really isn't very strong in comparison to how it "should" be. Is this true? Or will I just have a better chance of getting legit leaf than legit extract?

I order from a well-known online shopping website, which I'm very surprised has Kratom -- and for only about $10 for a pound. Kratom is water-soluble, though I believe it is more soluble in alcohol. Polar solvents I think, but not quite sure. I make my own extracts because I cannot handle the taste, I simply make a tea out of the kratom as normal and boil it down to a tarry opium-looking mass. It leaves plenty of material, and I'm sure it could be refined further, but I just stuff it into caps and take it.

Don't use extracts other people made, they're mostly advertising schemes. Especially if they say something like "80X" or "100X!", it's mostly bull. Get crushed leaves or powdered leaves (I use powdered just because I find it easier to make a tea). It's pretty cheap depending on tolerance too, I use a relatively high dose but it's still signifcantly cheaper than real opiates
 
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