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Thread: The Kratom Thread

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    #26
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Awesome, that's exactly what i was hoping for. Thanks.

    If 6grams (of what you were working with) was about equal to 30mgs hydrocodone, i wonder how much bupe is equivalent to 30mgs hydro.

    How long can i expect 1 dose to provide relief from withdrawal; Will it be about the same length of time kratom normally lasts or diminished due to tolerance?

    And if anybody has used it for bupe taper, would it be more effective to go cold turkey off .5mgs and taper with kratom, or to continue my bupe taper and use kratom to supplement the withdrawal. My main interest is being off in a timely manner, i have about a month to be bupe free - but nothing is more important than doing it right and successfully. I can deal with an extra week or 2. It just seems like continuing bupe taper with kratom supplementation would be way more long and drawn out, almost counter productive. But i could be wrong.
    Last edited by CaseFace; 03-12-2010 at 10:44.
     

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    #27
    ^pegaus would be the expert on this subject as he used kratom to transition off of bupe so hopefully he can comment.

    I'm not sure what bupe dose he jumped off of but I believed he was held relatively well on 2 daily doses of 8 grams.
     

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    #28
    I went cold turkey off 2mg's and straight to Kratom at about 12g's twice a day. I imagine it'll be even easier if you go at .5. It really was a pretty smooth transition even at 2mg. I just don't know if the Kratom ends up extending the withdrawal because I haven't stopped since.
     

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    #29
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    How long have you been using Kratom after switching from bupe?
     

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    #30
    [Moved to beginning of thread]
    Last edited by Pegasus; 09-04-2011 at 18:26.
     

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    #31
    IME kratom works great to get off bupe. I stopped bupe @ around 1-2mgs a day and used 6-10 grams of kratom once or twice a day.

    For me bupe withdrawal is always fucking terrible and kratom definitely took the edge off. Bupe withdrawal seems like it lasts wayyyy too long and I don't feel like kratom extended the withdrawal too much. It probably has some effect but staying sane was more important to me than an extra couple days of withdrawal.
     

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    #32
    Kratom definitely is strange... I bought 100g about 2 years ago, before I had tried any opiate, and I took between 6-8g per night for over a week. Each time, it was mindblowingly powerful. The final night I took 10g, and to this day, that remains the highest I've ever been in my life. The first 4 hours or so feels like you're on speed, then suddenly that fades away and you sink into a 4+ hour nod. I didn't know what "nodding" was back then, so it really blew my mind and caught me off guard. This was crushed bali leaf btw. And I tried it both by swallowing the leaf, and by making tea and straining/filtering it, and either way seemed just as good.

    Fast forward 8 months. I ended up with a ~50mg/day Oxy habit. Then I got clean. After 30 days clean, I bought more of the kratom. Same exact listing, same kind, same amount, etc. I simply reordered more. Well let me tell you... It didn't do ANYTHING. Nada. I kept trying higher and higher doses each day, and nothing ever happened. The final night I got frustrated and ate the remaining 60g all at once, and still nothing. So I ended up getting a refund from the seller.

    To this day, I wonder if it was a bad batch, or maybe it's just that kratom doesn't work if you've ever been addicted to opiates. I get the feeling it's the latter. Btw, I ultimately ended up with a 50mg/day hydromorphone + 50mg/day dexedrine habit, and that still didn't compare to the first time I tried kratom. I'm left thinking that kratom, with no tolerance or opiate history, is pretty much the strongest drug you can buy. Oh how I wish I could turn the clocks back...
     

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    #33
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegasus View Post
    I used kratom for various lengths after jumping off bupe. I have done this several times!

    ....
    Thanks for the info.
     

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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Fail Fighter View Post
    Kratom definitely is strange... I bought 100g about 2 years ago, before I had tried any opiate, and I took between 6-8g per night for over a week. Each time, it was mindblowingly powerful. The final night I took 10g, and to this day, that remains the highest I've ever been in my life. The first 4 hours or so feels like you're on speed, then suddenly that fades away and you sink into a 4+ hour nod. I didn't know what "nodding" was back then, so it really blew my mind and caught me off guard. This was crushed bali leaf btw. And I tried it both by swallowing the leaf, and by making tea and straining/filtering it, and either way seemed just as good.

    Fast forward 8 months. I ended up with a ~50mg/day Oxy habit. Then I got clean. After 30 days clean, I bought more of the kratom. Same exact listing, same kind, same amount, etc. I simply reordered more. Well let me tell you... It didn't do ANYTHING. Nada. I kept trying higher and higher doses each day, and nothing ever happened. The final night I got frustrated and ate the remaining 60g all at once, and still nothing. So I ended up getting a refund from the seller.

    To this day, I wonder if it was a bad batch, or maybe it's just that kratom doesn't work if you've ever been addicted to opiates. I get the feeling it's the latter. Btw, I ultimately ended up with a 50mg/day hydromorphone + 50mg/day dexedrine habit, and that still didn't compare to the first time I tried kratom. I'm left thinking that kratom, with no tolerance or opiate history, is pretty much the strongest drug you can buy. Oh how I wish I could turn the clocks back...
    I would take a guess that it was probably a combination of the tolerance you had built and the quality of the product. I know that the Kratom is trippy. It seems like when Im really looking forward to its effects and I take my usual does- I am dissapointed. On the other hand, I will be ready to be dissapointed at other times, and the same dose ends up making me feel wonderful. Absorbtion and BA are a major factor when it comes to Kratom- maybe even more so than with other opiates. I may be wrong here, but wouldn't tinctured extracts open up a whole new ball game? But, the problem is that a good amount of Kratom users also have experience in other opiates- so a large amount of the alkaloids are needed for a desired effect. This fact would rule out tinctures as being an economical choice for most. Has anyone tried one of these tinctures or other high power extracts? If so, what is your comparison to normal extract/leaf material?
     

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    #35
    above question seconded.... I've NEVER tried anything but the crushed bali, although friends have, and they said it was like any other opiate (not very descriptive, thats why I want more anecdotal evidence)
     

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    #36
    You definitely can use kratom after other opiates. I have been up to pretty high daily doses of a few potent opiates, and I still get fairly strong effects from kratom. It is somewhat of a subtle of a drug in the first place, and so if you used it first before any other opiates, you are essentially having your "virgin" opiate experiences with kratom. Once your body begins to familiarize itself with opiates, a bit of that magic feeling leaves and never fully comes back.

    After abusing opiates, kratom in particular will seem mild as it is simply not as abusable in it's current form. Further development of the alkaloids in kratom could possibly yield an opioid that can be dosed up to high levels like with the classical opiates.
     

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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by caseface99 View Post
    I can deal with an extra week or 2. It just seems like continuing bupe taper with kratom supplementation would be way more long and drawn out, almost counter productive. But i could be wrong.
    It will not extend the w/d period by much at all, if any. It will certainly make those 2-3 weeks more manageable, yet 2-3 weeks is exactly what you'd be facing coming off of bupe anyways, and those 2-3 weeks are pretty rough without another opiate to help step down. Kratom is certainly going to extend the w/d period less than something like codeine, or even loperamide...
     

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    #38
    Hi, new here and need help. where do you get your kratom? Someone said the capsules were best, does it work as good as the teas? Really need help, been on oc for almost 5 years now but I have a son and need to get off and get my life back. Can you help by letting me know where I can get it? there are so many places on the web, don't know which ones to trust. thx.
     

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    #39
    Bluelight Crew CaseFace's Avatar
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    Lakiera, Unfortunately Kratom is a "drug", legal or not - and there is no discussion of sources for drugs allowed on this website, nor links to other forums which do allow source discussion. However you will be able to find plenty of information concerning which strain to buy, what dose to take, and taper information. Try posting in the Kratom Thread with any questions you may have, i just recently received loads of help after posting in that thread. You might also want to read the OD Posting Standards, just so you don't end up breaking any rules, this website is after all, a valuable resource.


    Good luck.
     

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    #40
    Merged into kratom thread...

    Kratom is legal in much of the world, and so obtaining it should not be too difficult with a bit of searching...
     

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    #41
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    Most people in the U.S. haven't even heard of it, which means it may not be scheduled for a while...and its much safer than other opiates because so much is required and there are other side effects at higher dosages that turn a lot of people away, however, for people like me and a lot of other opiophiles (shameless reference to that other board, i love you guys) its quite a useful tool, so try it out.
     

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    #42
    I tried Kratom yesterday, I bought two 5 gram bags. The person I got it from had two different types. I forget what the names were but one was supposed to be relaxing and the other stimulating. I got stimulating. I took all of it over the course of an hour. It gave me a buzz that lasted for hours, but the thing is I didn't get any euphoria from it, and that's mainly what I was hoping for. It was like I felt an opiate buzz, but at the same time I was still feeling depressed and anxious, just like when I'm sober.
     

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    #43
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    Still better than only feeling depressed and anxious. Try combining it with some benzos or a little cannabis, works wonders
     

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    #44
    after a brief period of abstinence, (5 days, it really helps to bring back the good effects of kratom, otherwise, it's basically just a WEAK maintenance drug), consumed 5 grams of what I bought as "kratom isolate extract"....it was the same consistency as my usual bali, but much darker, almost black

    I would have been hard pressed to differentiate between the kratom and a different, "full agonist" opiate....I was nodding for 4 hours, extremely talkative when I was awake, had endless energy (again, when I wasn't sitting)....the only difference was slight nausea, something I never get from opiates.....it wasn't overly powerful, or unavoidable, but I could see that I was definitely near the comfortable ceiling dose for whichever alkaloid causes the nausea/?vertigo?
    A-
     

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    #45
    I started taking Kratom roughly a week or more ago. Then, basically, it turned into a daily thing. Now, I'm drinking the Kratom tea all the time. I think I've got a problem.

    I'm also on Subutex, and the bad/good thing about Kratom, is that it blends in with the Subutex nicely.

    Any addiction breaking advice for the Kratom? I tried reducing my amount one day, and it worked, I got down to 6 cups in a day, then the following day I drank it heavily and have been ever since.

    I keep telling myself ~ this Kratom is LEGAL like a cigarette. So, why shouldn't I use it?
     

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    #46
    I think kratom addiction should probably be avoided, and it will happen with extended high dosing. The mechanisms of action of kratom are not well understood, but it is apparent that there is some effect on serotonin functioning as well as the multiple opioid effects going on, and this could be an issue when quitting if you were to take kratom at high doses for an extended time (I'd say like longer than 6-8 weeks or so). If you're going to maintain on an opiate, I would probably stick with a more understood drug like buprenorphine. If you can just cut in weeks of not using the drug every so often, like use for a few weeks then stop for maybe two, etc, then you will avoid the addiction, though long-term regular use of kratom could certainly have some adverse effects... We don't really know about these, other than what the civilizations that have been using the drug for many generations claim about addicts, which is basically along the lines of anorexia, weight loss, sunken cheeks... Surely there is a cause for these symptoms within the active or inactive ingredients; we just don't know specifically yet.
     

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    #47
    My appetite has disappeared with Kratom use btw. Just thought I'd point that out. Maybe that explains the weight loss?
     

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    #48
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    Kratom's kinda-stimulant effects are to blame for the weight loss, combined with the opiate stuff happening it makes a great appetite suppressant. While I can't really dig up (or think up) an exact method of action, somebody can...it is well known that stimulants reduce your appetite.

    Of course, kratom affects different people differently, I get very little, if any, stimulant effect with kratom, no matter what dose I take...whereas for some people, including whoever wrote the wiki article, its stimulating at low doses and more like an opiate/sedative at high doses.

    I've combined kratom with dextroamphetamine a few times with great results, its much better than combining dexamp with another stimulant like caffeine, there is a little tiny bit of stimulant enhancement but an elimination of the anxiety that comes with taking amphetamines. Of course this combination does an even better job of destroying your appetite.

    catcalls, have you tried combining kratom with cannabis? That should eliminate your problem with weight loss
     

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    #49
    Oh, I smoked grit weed for like 2-3 years. My lungs are shot. I cannot inhale cannabis at all. That is one reason for the heroin use. I found crack/heroin combo much easier on the lungs.

    Right now, I do not smoke the Kratom, but rather make teas from it. A few moments ago refreshed my tea bag with fresh kratom, and am feeling irie right now.
     

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    #50
    Bluelight Crew NeighborhoodThreat's Avatar
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    Crack is easier on your lungs than cannabis? This is news to me, either way, that's the method I use to combat kratom's appetite suppressing effects, when I want to.
     

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