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Opioids The Kratom Thread

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I'm pretty confused as to how it's legal then lol. How addictive would you say it is compared to the weak opiates like Codeine?

I'm thinking I'd be better off just switching to that using the CWE and continue tapering from there.
 
you think it casuses less nausea then other opiates amapola? because i have certainly found that to be true. i am on 15 grams right now and feel no nausea. other opioids have given me imcapacitiating nausea. however, ive had people tell me kratom causes more nausea than other opioids. i also dont find the constipating effect to be very strong with kratom.
I have found kratom more nauseating if you go just a little beyond your comfort zone, but no nausea from any opiates and low doses and I've never really gotten to too high a dose on any opioid either.
I'm pretty confused as to how it's legal then lol. How addictive would you say it is compared to the weak opiates like Codeine?

I'm thinking I'd be better off just switching to that using the CWE and continue tapering from there.
Lots of opioids are legal. DXM and immodium come to mind. I'd say it has very similar addiction potential to codeine. I think that switching to codeine is more within your comfort zone and more likely to be successful for you. Kratom is more hit and miss between different people and different batches.
 
I'm pretty confused as to how it's legal then lol. How addictive would you say it is compared to the weak opiates like Codeine?

I'm thinking I'd be better off just switching to that using the CWE and continue tapering from there.


it's legal because its relatively new to our culture and not widely known about. i would say kratom is more addictive than codeine, for me anyway because i enjoy kratom more.
 
Just placed order for 5 ounces of kratom bali micro powder. Any suggesstions? I want outta the opiate game. End of story... I"m scared of it and hate oxy.... If I can find a way to use this to come off without using suboxone, god.... At this point I'm gona try it....
 
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Hey guys. Just did some research on extraction and made this little write-up. Posted in another thread previously but though I'd add it to the big one.
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The strong opioid effects of kratom are caused by a complex combination of alkaloids present in the plant. The most important is 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH-m) which has been shown to be stronger than morphine by at least a factor of 10. Pseudoindoxyl mitragynine is three fold stronger than 7-OH-m, but is not present in large enough amounts to be considered, and mitragynine, though by far the most abundant alkaloid, is merely similar in strength to morphine and any effects are likely overshadowed by the more powerful 7-OH-m. (Takayama et al, 2002)

A study was undertaken by Kikura-Hanajiri et al to present a method of determining the alkaloid content of commercially available kratom products. Part of this method included the optimal extraction of the alkaloids from the plant matter. The extraction somewhat focused on 7-OH-m as it was considered the best indicator of potential for abuse. The final extraction procedure is as follows.

Step 1: grind the kratom into as fine a powder as possible
Step 2: add kratom to 80% methanol solution
Step 3: mix solution for several hours (ultrasonification)
Step 4: store at room temperature overnight
Step 5: filter solution (centrifuge)

Some parts of this procedure are commonsense, for example the finer the powder the better and there is no real disadvantage to mixing for longer periods of time. The most important part is the choice of 80% methanol for the solvent. Regarding the solvent chemical, ethanol, methanol and acetonitrile were all tested with methanol clearly being the best choice. Due to methanol's toxicity, it is worthwhile to mention that ethanol was a third less effective than methanol.
As for the methanol concentration, it was found that the amount of 7-OH-m extracted at 80% was double that extracted at 100% and also double that extracted at 50%. Interestingly the mitragynine extracted was the same for all concentrations in that range. (Kikura-Hanajiri et al, 2009)

In summary if you are attempting to do an extraction on kratom do so with a 70-80 percent methanol solution.

REFERENCES

Simultaneous analysis of mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine, and other alkaloids in the psychotropic plant “kratom” (Mitragyna speciosa) by LC-ESI-MS
Kikura-Hanajiri et al
Forensic Toxicology (2009)
accessed Feb/2011: http://www.springerlink.com/content/y81p24x5u1x00962/

Studies on the Synthesis and Opioid Agonistic Activities of Mitragynine-Related Indole Alkaloids: Discovery of Opioid Agonists Structurally Different from Other Opioid Ligands
Takayama et al
Journal of Medicinal Chemistry (2002)
accessed Feb/2011: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm010576e
 
just to update my experience with 15 grams on friday night ended up qute being quite dizzying although after that passed i had some nice effects. was hungover the whole next day though. i am now a believer in the "less is more" philosophy. the next time i take kratom i i will try 6 or 7 grams. even though i don't think i will get as high, i'm sure it will still be pleasant and lacking the side effects of high doses.
 
First try on Kratom tonight.... Took 10 grams of Green Sumatran powder, added 2 cups of water, boiled then simmered for 15mins. Added honey and drank. Calmness I think set in but really wasn't taken on any type of journey or real feelings like "this is defenatly kratom." Wasn't sure if it was placebo, yet I'm some what dissapointed being that even those with opiate tolerances say that it really doesn't matter, to somewhat it does but you will feel it and get to experience it. I later ate the powder after filtering threw a coffee filter. Any reason why I didn't achieve good effects? The product was strong smelling, good aroma, fresh dried product, good quality imo. hmmmmmmm
 
^Could just be bunk kratom but there are a ton of factors. Heat damage, stomach contents, mood, who knows.

Try a straight toss and wash on a completely empty stomach (no food for 6 hours plus) and see how that goes. I'd also try 5g to start (less is more principle could be at work).
 
Kratom definitely is strange... I bought 100g about 2 years ago, before I had tried any opiate, and I took between 6-8g per night for over a week. Each time, it was mindblowingly powerful. The final night I took 10g, and to this day, that remains the highest I've ever been in my life. The first 4 hours or so feels like you're on speed, then suddenly that fades away and you sink into a 4+ hour nod. I didn't know what "nodding" was back then, so it really blew my mind and caught me off guard. This was crushed bali leaf btw. And I tried it both by swallowing the leaf, and by making tea and straining/filtering it, and either way seemed just as good.

This is very true. My first nod on K was perfectly painless and blissfully dreamlike. But in my experience, tolerance makes the "waking dream" difficult to achieve more than once a month or so. And it often involves finding the best balance between nausea and euphoria.
 
^ease up on the phenazepam, friend ;)

good advice except i didn't take any.. lol. im sending what i have of it back to china for a batch of higher purity.. i have good connects over thurr lol i got XXg and am sending XXg back :)
Am i good to take some Kratom tho? i just got it yesterday and have been off all opiates a while and wanna see if i can catch a buzz off it, but im seriously looking for an "ok" to do it cuz if you don't think i should i won't as i trust your judgment.
 
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^Cool, I just learned I can move posts from one existing thread to another... I've never tried before.

Anyway, this is a more appropriate place to ask about dosing kratom so I transported you.

I am not going to give you permission to use because I don't want to send you back into the throes of opioid addiction. Its your choice.
 
So, a few days ago i tried some tea made from about 10 g of crushed Bali. I ground it up to a fine powder and boiled with some lemon juice, then drank about two and a half cups of tea fairly quickly. It was definitely an enjoyable experience, but after the effects wore off, about three hours later, I had some of the worst nausea i have ever felt. It didn't feel the same as the usual opiate kind of nausea.
I have read that this is fairly common with Bali, has anyone found anything that works well to quell this? Ginger or Promethazine maybe? I just do not want to waste the other 100 g i have.
 
Kratom is known for nausea in higher doses. I'd suggest you just try taking less next time and seeing if that is still enjoyable without nausea.
 
^Exactly, just lower the dose maybe 500mg-1g and see if that helps... It shouldn't make the effects weaker really, but should take the nausea away. I know that personally, swallowing kratom in capsules, I can take around 8g before I start to get nausea. You just have to find your sweet spot.
 
tried an experiment on the effectiveness of plugged kratom today. used a boiled down tea which contained about 6 grams of Indo. my final conclusion: KRATOM CANT BE PLUGGED!!! haha.

i was surprised as i thought it would work like any other drug, but it didnt do anything at all. just thought id post this in case anyone is curious.
 
so my local smokeshop has ordered a batch of kratom. im thinking of ordering my own, as i don't want to necessarily pay the price the smokeshop will offer (unless it's a good price, compared to ordering my own with shipping costs included..) i'm looking forward to trying it.

now, i read alot about indo, bali, premium super 300x fat-ass blaster extract concoctions and my questions about the different preparations is if the different types (indo/bali/resin/extracts etc) even makes a difference in the perceivable effects. i'd assume there are as the different growing locations might induce different conditions for the plant to produce different alkaloids but im just not certain and was wondering if anyone could shed some light if they've had the chance to try the different preparations?

is it true that whole leaf > powder?
 
Check out these charts:

Source
Simultaneous analysis of mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine, and other alkaloids in the psychotropic plant “kratom” (Mitragyna speciosa) by LC-ESI-MS
Kikura-Hanajiri et al
Forensic Toxicology (2009)
accessed: http://www.springerlink.com/content/y81p24x5u1x00962/

So basically you just need to try it and see. Also depending on the markup for extracts it is likely not worth the increased price.

edit: take particular note of the 7-OH-mitragynine over the mitragynine.
 

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Just got my first taste of Kratom UEI over the weekend. I tossed back 2 grams with warm water on Friday. The high came in slow (about an hour) but then I was just blissed out the rest of the day. Totally mellow, worry free, stress free, got in the zone where I loved everybody and everything. Got the "waking dream" and a mild smooth euphoric buzz for most the day.

Tried it again on Sunday (yesterday) with exactly the same results. I dosed at around noon and the high lasted until I went to bed at 10:30pm. I awoke this morning with a mild headache and I feel a little "doped."

God I love this shit. Is it normal for a high to last this long? I only used 2 grams (a heaping 1/2 teaspoon). Are there others out there that react like this to Kratom?
 
You must have a good batch combined with a good physical predisposition. 4g for four hours of high before an afterglow for me. Hopefully the experience will remaining glowing for a long time to come but make sure you don't use too often and ruin it. As a teaspoon is only 5ml I'm suspicious that half of one of kratom weighed 2g.

Anyways glad you are enjoying.
 
You must have a good batch combined with a good physical predisposition. 4g for four hours of high before an afterglow for me. Hopefully the experience will remaining glowing for a long time to come but make sure you don't use too often and ruin it. As a teaspoon is only 5ml I'm suspicious that half of one of kratom weighed 2g.

Anyways glad you are enjoying.


Interesting...and yeah I'm definitely saving this up for special occassions (ie 4 times a month -- MAX). You could have stood my worst enemy in front of me yesterday and I would've been inclined to kiss him on the mouth. =D
 
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