Opioids Important info for oxycontin or any pill that gells when water is added

[PHD_in_PRT]

I have been reading for awhile about generic oxycontins and some other opiates that will gel when crushed and water is added. I am also certain that the new Oxys can be extracted using this method as well.

I am certain of this method because I have a biochemistry background and I have used the method NUMEROUS times with no problems.

The ingredient in pills that gel is hypromellose. If you do some research on hypromellose you will see that is is NOT soluble in dehydrated alcohol. Dehydrated alcohol is just 100% alcohol, not 99.999999% but only 100% can be used. You can use ethanol, but it is hard to get and expensive. The better choice and what I use because I also drag race, is methanol. Be careful using methanol because it is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water if left in the open and that will make it unpure (not 100%)

Simple method of extraction. Oxymorphone and most other opiates are slightly soluble in alcohol, something in the order of 10g per 500ml of alcohol, so you will have to use quite a bit but nothing that can't be handled. The more the better, it will just take longer to evaporate, but believe me it doesn't take that long.

Crush the pills and dissolve them in the alcohol. When you do this the hypromellose will not be activated because it isn't soluble in alcohol and therefore it will not gel. If there is any water in the alcohol, you will be screwed because not only does it gel up, but the opiate ingredient in the first thing to also be absorbed since it is soluble in water.

Now that you have dissolved the opiate into the alcohol, all you have to do is evaporate the alcohol. Don't worry, pure alcohol leaves no residue after evaporated. BE VERY CAREFUL AS THE ALCOHOL FUMES WILL BE HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE. So do this in a ventilated area. I use a Pyrex pie dish and heat it with a conductive heat that doesn't produce a flame and then vent the fumes out the window. In about 15-20 minutes you will have 100% oxycodone/opiate in the pie plate ready to use as you wish.

Be careful when you first do this because the powder in the pie plate is MUCH stronger then it is when you crush it because all of the other nasty ingredients are gone. I suggest doing it with one or two pills so you know what you can take.

Hypromellose is in most every pill that gels, Opana ER, Mscontin, generic Oxycontin and the new version of Oxycontin thats coming out.

Don't bother crushing any pill with hypromellose in it and expect it to be immediate release, because it does not release the ingredient any faster as it is absorbed by the polymer structure once it is hydrated. This is the reason they use it to prevent abuse.

All attempts to prevent abuse CAN ALWAYS be overcome. Companies like Purdue only do this so that they can "reformulate" a drug whose patent is expiring and reformulating it makes the patent start new again since the formulation is now different.

Hope it helps!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thank you for letting me know that hypromellose is a gelling agent.

Hypromellose is present in:

Atarax, Concerta, MS Contin, Opana ER, OxyContin (old formula). It's also present in Wellbutrin but I wouldn't advise anyone injecting it.

I've only injected hydroxyzine hcl (atarax) and after micron filtering it worked very well; it didn't really "gel". I used roughly 2.5mL of bacteriostatic water per tablet.

 

[PHD_in_PRT]

If you use my method below, there will be no hypromellose and you will know this because when you take the final product and dissolve it is water, there is no gel and the liquid is clear.

I personally think it is THE best way to IV drugs with other ingredients in them because most of the ingredients are water soluble so they won't dissolve in the alcohol.

Something I forgot to mention. Methanol is much easier to get the 100% ethanol for the obvious ATF reasons. Methanol is used as a fuel in drag racing and it can be purchased at most race shops that sell fuel or at chemical supply houses, although they usually sell it in 55 gallon drums and race shops will sell it in smaller amount.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

If you use my method below, there will be no hypromellose and you will know this because when you take the final product and dissolve it is water, there is no gel and the liquid is clear.

I personally think it is THE best way to IV drugs with other ingredients in them because most of the ingredients are water soluble so they won't dissolve in the alcohol.

Something I forgot to mention. Methanol is much easier to get the 100% ethanol for the obvious ATF reasons. Methanol is used as a fuel in drag racing and it can be purchased at most race shops that sell fuel or at chemical supply houses, although they usually sell it in 55 gallon drums and race shops will sell it in smaller amount.

Well I am not going to bother with this personally because I have since stopped injecting Atarax. Hydroxyzine when IV'd causes hemolysis and can be kind of rough on your veins, especially if you're injecting into small ones. Missing a shot of it can also be somewhat harsh on your vein.

Also I don't inject any of those other tablets now so I'll live but thanks for this information, this should help others out a lot.

 

[Arobskittle]

could one dry some 99% iso to 100% with some anhydrous MgSO4 and then proceed to use this "tek"?

 

[justtesting]

stuff about HPMC

I tried to send this privately, but I wont be able to send private messages until reachineg bluelighter status:

With your background I am sure you can you can help, but you have the wrong information. The ingredient that gels in the newer pills that gel is a polyethylene oxide with a weight in the millions. It is manufactured by Dow and ColorCon under the tradename PolyOx. HPMC may contribute, but the primary culprit is PolyOx.

The gel is not just an annoyance, it is the release mechanism itself. (via diffusion through the gel, surface erosion of the gel, and (in some cases) breaking an association compound between the API and PolyOx.

See this post and posts on the previous two pages of the same thread it is in.

The best options are probably oxidation degradation of PEO, UV degradation of PEO, shear force degradation of PEO, and ion catalysis to potentiate the degradation. (See Dow and ColorCon pdf documents on PolyOx as well as the wikipedia page on polyethylene glycol.)

 

[etard7007]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me like you missed a step.

After you dissolve the crushed pill in alcohol, wouldn't you then need to filter out the alcohol/opiate solution from the pill inactives first and then evaporate the alcohol? Otherwise when you evaporate the alcohol you are going to be left with a pile of the opiate along with the original pill binders, even if it has been freed from the gel matrix.

 

[justtesting]

could one dry some 99% iso to 100% with some anhydrous MgSO4 and then proceed to use this "tek"?

Whether obtained pure, or dried with with MGSO4, isopropanol is right on the mark, as Dow recommends it's use for cleaning work areas where polyox is used, but note that polyox is not hpmc (hypromellose), and while well intentioned, PHD in PRT has his facts wrong, and the method he posts is insufficient for the task.

I wish people would do some research before posting "an easy solution".

Readers eager for such a solution may trust anyone who posts one, and destroy their own property in the process

There are in fact other people who have done a lot of research, and are very close.

One individual in particular has done an incredible amount of work on this, and has a solution, but not "an easy solution". Over in "Experiment Thead - New Formulation Oxycodone Extraction", I posted a copy of his writeup of his 13 step procedure, along with comments on his writeup that came to mind when I read it.

Lest anyone assume otherwise, I am not the creator or the author of that procedure. This is not an "avoidance of self-incrimination thing". If nothing else, you can tell by the difference in our writing styles.
I will state that I believe he is close to a relatively simple procedure, and some of his procedure may be redundant or unnecessary.

In particular, because oxidation is only one of several ways to degrade PolyOx, using a d-limonene based oil to remove the anti-oxidant BHT may be superfluous, and a lot of work could be saved by eliminating the steps making use of orange oil or lemon oil.

Rurik's method shows that oxidation of PolyOx (PEO) can still occur in the presence of BHT, anyway.

With the newest info, I'd probably favor the idea of going MEGA with the UV.

Isopropyl alcohol will dissolve PEO, but PEO still needs to be degraded to free the API (active pharmaceutical ingredient).

Degradation can be accomplished with A) oxidation, B) Ultraviolet, C) shear forces.

The idea is this:

Use a sealed transparent container. Place a solution of several (or many, once you get the procedure down) tablets dissolved in pure isopropanol (IPA) into the container.

Leave space for a large pocket of air. Place anhydrous epsom salt into part of that space. Use an electric aerator to continuously aerate the solution.
Keep the container lit with as many watts of super-bright ultraviolet LEDs as you can (surrounded by aluminum foil to serve as reflectors, and don't forget current limiting resistors to keep the LED's from frying themselves). Check the polyox documentation to find the method of agitating polyox solutions that they least recommend. This will be the agitation method creating the type of shear forces that are most destructive of polyox.

Thus you are concurrently using 3 methods of degrading the PEO. If you can find an easy way to somehow run an electric current through the isopropyl without hydrating it, you might take advantage of the ions associated with the current to accelerate the PEO degradation, but this step is probably not important unless you are in a real rush. I'd probably consider letting it run overnight instead.

The next morning, degradation should have reduced the molecular weight of the PEO, maybe even enough to call it PEG. Add water to the remaining powder.

The remainder is less well researched, and (unlike the procedure which contained orange oil steps) has not to my knowledge been considered previously, but takes ideas from a working procedure for the old OC formula:

Now, mix in some talc to bind the remaining PEG, or maybe add some stearyl alcohol. Heat to boiling (carefully, so it wont splash or erupt), and let the solids melt together and then precipitate. Now you can use filtration or OAS (I would tend to prefer the latter) to separate the solids from clear liquid. You could add some lactose before evaporating the liquid to make the resulting powder easier to measure.

 

[Ergotamine]

Well if you can give some idea's to try, id be more than happy to have swim test them for ya, he has been sittin on a 1/2 a bottle of OP's wondering what to do with them, would prob be more than happy to experiment with them...

Just need a well detailed step by step procedure, he doesnt have a very good science background, i did well in chemistry in high school but that was over 10 years ago, so we would need pretty detailed information, like exact products to use and an explination of any acronyms...ive figured most of them out just reading, but i know SWIM wont be able to so if i cant figure one out, we could end up stuck, and i wouldnt just Assume anything cause that could cause a failed result on an mistaken try...

So far ive told him to do the simple shit, throw in a shotglass of water for 24" then pour the clear liquid out leavin the gel in the bottom of the shotglass (stuck to the bottom) and dissolve the water, this only gives us a product good for Immediate Release Capsules and avoidance of the adverse reactions we get when we swallow the OP but in the end the product is still not nearly as effective and doesnt kill pain like the old OC, even at twice the normal dose it seems....

BTW if you find a Compounding Pharmacy that makes their own 80mg Oxycodone ER Capsules, what would they be putting into a Capsule that would help it be an Extended Release? would this probably be easier on the body? less adverse effects? i just dont understand how a powder substance not smashed together could have a time release to it without being just as possibly bad as the OP if they were powdered....

Looks like it might possibly be Methocel (Hypromellose) used to make the medication slow release....

i would hope other people would have some better research than me and be able to prove or show other possibilities...

im curious also, if they put hypromellose in OC80 (Old Perdue Formula) then why did it not gel up? it seems that Methocel is a gelling/thickening/viscosity adding product itself, what would cause the OC80's to NOT gel up and be so "abuseable" when the same stuff is being used??

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I don't believe the OP (original poster) is referring to the newer OP Oxycontins, but rather the Opana ER's, old OxyContins, etc. that gel and don't have polyethylene oxide.

 

[AMTDan]

No he's talking about the new ones. He said New Oxys and the new version of oxycontin that is coming out. Unfortunately its one of many "I finally solved it for good" posts thats not accurate. Thanks for making the attempt to solve it but like others said you have the wrong ingredient.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

No he's talking about the new ones. He said New Oxys and the new version of oxycontin that is coming out. Unfortunately its one of many "I finally solved it for good" posts thats not accurate. Thanks for making the attempt to solve it but like others said you have the wrong ingredient.

Oh gotcha, yeah then that makes sense.

It was a long post so I don't believe I made the whole way through it.

 

[justtesting]

im curious also, if they put hypromellose in OC80 (Old Perdue Formula) then why did it not gel up? it seems that Methocel is a gelling/thickening/viscosity adding product itself, what would cause the OC80's to NOT gel up and be so "abuseable" when the same stuff is being used??

Because hypromellose is not used in sufficient quantities for gelling in either formula.

The old formula used an ammonio methacrylate copolymer matrix to slowly release the API (oxycodone). Your could melt it in a small pill bottle containing water to make it release all the API at once, whereupon it was dissolved in the water, and you would just have to wait for the drained matrix to solidify, and filter it from the solution. Some people would repeat this a few times, in case the solution became saturated (there was lactose in there too) and some of the API remained in the solidified matrix.

The new formula uses a high molecular weight polyethylene oxide matrix. It is designed not to release the API without gelling. The release is accomplished by diffusion through the gel and erosion of the gel's surface.

 

[DexterMeth]

Thanks for posting this. If you're going to do this, you really want to head the OP's words of caution and be VERY CAREFUL when handling the alcohol around heat. I almost set my whole house on fire a number of years ago from fucking around with 99% iso-alc. It sounds stupid, because it is. Just don't get ahead or yourself for one second when evaporating alcohol.

 

[JamtasticX]

Maybe i'm just missing something, but how does this do anything?

All you're doing is making a powder that is a straight mix, and not have any opiate within the gel? However, once you sniff it, won't it just gel around any of the opiates? You would need another step it would seen, something to seperate the powders, a filter of centrifuge

 

[justtesting]

Maybe i'm just missing something, but how does this do anything?

All you're doing is making a powder that is a straight mix, and not have any opiate within the gel? However, once you sniff it, won't it just gel around any of the opiates? You would need another step it would seen, something to seperate the powders, a filter of centrifuge

You are quite right.

Please see my post "A library of posts on OP extraction" in the thread "(opiates) Experiment Thead - New Formulation Oxycodone Extraction". You can just click on the link.

It includes two procedures likely to be of use.

The older one is intended to attack the BHT that protects the PEO before attacking the PEO, while the newer one uses brute force attacking the polyethylene oxide matrix on several fronts but has never been tried.

I'd think of the older one as a stepping stone to the newer one. Much of it's complexity involved working with orange oil to remove the BHT, but a brute force approach should allow that complexity to be removed. ^The original approach introduced the idea of using UV light as an adjunct to degradation of the PEO by oxidation. Much more powerful UV light plus deliberate aeration of the IPA and choosing an agitation method that maximizes shear forces should get around the need to remove the BHT. When sufficiently degraded, the PEO should release the bound IPA without needing to gel, or even being able to gel!

 

[justtesting]

Thank you for letting me know that hypromellose is a gelling agent.

Hypromellose is present in:

Atarax, Concerta, MS Contin, Opana ER, OxyContin (old formula). It's also present in Wellbutrin but I wouldn't advise anyone injecting it.

FWIW, it is also one of the lubricants or the sole lubricant in several brands of eyedrops.

Some forms of hypromellose are used as a subsitute for gluten in all-oat and all-barley breads and as a vegetarian substitute for animal gelatin

 

[PHD_in_PRT]

I don't believe the OP (original poster) is referring to the newer OP Oxycontins, but rather the Opana ER's, old OxyContins, etc. that gel and don't have polyethylene oxide.

You are correct! I was NOT talking about the new Oxy's although I did mention them because I did a dumb thing and assumed something.

Let me also say that I did not post this in a discussion forum because it is a fact. I posted it to discuss it. Sorry if I made myself look like I am more qualified then I am, but I never said I had a PHD in anything except PRT. I have used this method VERY effectively on hundreds of Oxy pills, but it was back a few years ago when the generic Oxy's came out. I have also used it, again a few years ago, on Mscontin's and Opana ER's, which all of the pills I mentioned, minus the new Oxy's. I posted this information to help others as I know how it feels to have your new prescription of Oxycontin and you know that the pills you got are going to just gel up with most everything you try. The anti-abuse ingredients they first used, hypomellose and TimeRx-N(which is basically a Xanthan gum) could be overcome, because they are both insoluble in dehydrated alcohols. Now that the pharmaceutical companies have heard about people overcoming the old ones, they have done their research and have found polymers that are harder to overcome.

Justtesting is correct on the ingredient in the new Oxy's. The new ingredient to overcome is the Polyethylene Oxide. After reading his reply I did some research and anything I could find that Polyethylene Oxide is soluble in that is not only toxic but they it would also dissolve the main ingredient also soluble in the solvent. I did see that Polyethylene Oxide does not have a boiling point because it decomposes with heat. Now I am not saying that you can overcome it with heat, but that would be something to look into and maybe that is why some of the posts I have seen about the new Oxy's say they use heat first.

I apologize for posting some things that were incorrect, but again the post was made to discuss, not to be as fact. I think it is impolite for some people to post disrespectful things about me making a mistake by posting unverified statements because no one is perfect and unless you are(Don't let anyones head get to big here) making disrespectful remarks just makes you look bad. I may have been wrong, but I am no idiot!

I like to try an help people and sometimes the best advice is a new theory that no one has ever attempted. Sometimes this could be bad but lets face it, if you are trying to do what my thread suggests, then you really are not always thinking about safety, because people like us usually put safety far behind what it will do to us immediately, if you know what I mean.

If you do not want to try or discuss my method, then you probably aren't the type of person that should be interested in this thread. There are many different reason why people use different substances and I REALLY get annoyed when Miss/Mr goody two shoes who has their pills prescribed for pain, yet they come on here and bash others for the reason they use substances. In my perfect world anyone could use anything. Although we are no where close, our constitution does say we can do anything in the pursuit of happiness and in my opinion if it does not hurt or bother others, then people should mind their own business instead of trying to tell other how to live their lives.

Sorry for the long posts, but the people trying to tell others how to run their lives really gets under my skin. Also I can literally type as fast as I can talk, so it isn't hard for me to type something long, while others can't because they are not as proficient in typing.

I am not here to argue, just here to meet people with similar interests and discuss things about these interests. I apologize if I ever disrespect someone because those are not my intentions, although some things can be taken the wrong way.

Hope all is good with everyone.

 

[PHD_in_PRT]

This was sent to me by private message and I can not reply to it so I will reply to it here.

thanks for your hypercellulouse write up does it really work on opana er

Yes it does, I have done it personally.

 

[lozgod]

Good work. I would never bother going through all of these steps to get hi but I love seeing the pharm companies having their "abuse proof" formulas defeated.