METHADONE VS. SUBOXONE....Your experience w/each-Which one do u think is better?

[34-dihydroxyphen]

I dont know, there is just way too much misinformation and myths surrounding methadone. People seem to think being on methadone maintaince means nodding your ass off 24/7, while sub maintainence means just being well enough to function...Just a load of bullshit... haha Lacey K you should have made the thread "Methadone Vs. Suboxone.... Only post if you have used both drugs for maintence", slow down on these people claiming bullshit about a drug they know nothing about.

It is misinformation to an extent, but there is some merit behind the myth. Methadone on its own is more powerful than suboxone, and can lead to an enjoyable high when used without tolerance. I have never known one person in real life who has ever enjoyed the high from suboxone.

These rumors come from (I believe HBO) documentaries about methadone programs, where people who were on the program were lying about their tolerance in order to gain more methadone and combining it with high doses of benzos, to replicate the nod. And then the myth about methadone itself doing that to you begins.

I know I would never be able to handle the methadone program, so that is a definite no-no for me. Waking up early in the morning is not my thing.

 

[8L4YN3]

^What are you talking about there's merit behind the myths? Bullshit there is. I never disputed methadone is more powerful than buprenorphine, this is common knowledge, one has a friggin ceiling effect and the other dosn't, obviously methadone is stronger.

And we're not discussing no tolerance at all, we're talking about people on methadone program, who arent getting high and nodding all daily from their methadone... Many people enjoy the high from buprenorphine. People with small tolerance can get high from it. It still is a potent opioid to someone with no tolerance.

Also on the 'done program you dont have to wake up early lol.. I dose at 2pm.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

^What are you talking about there's merit behind the myths? Bullshit there is. I never disputed methadone is more powerful than buprenorphine, this is common knowledge, one has a friggin ceiling effect and the other dosn't, obviously methadone is stronger.

And we're not discussing no tolerance at all, we're talking about people on methadone program, who arent getting high and nodding all daily from their methadone... Many people enjoy the high from buprenorphine. People with small tolerance can get high from it. It still is a potent opioid to someone with no tolerance.

Also on the 'done program you dont have to wake up early lol.. I dose at 2pm.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I was basically stating where this "methadone will get you all fucked up" myth began. I acknowledged that it is still a myth, but that I have seen documentaries made by biased individuals (as all of those bullshit HBO addiction documentaries were) that are likely responsible for a large portion of people who believe these myths.

However, from what I understand there is no denying that methadone withdrawals are some of the hardest to endure, although having been on Suboxone for 3 years I can say that the withdrawal effects from that are no picnic either. They aren't quite on par with heroin, oxy, or pod withdrawals however. From what I have heard, methadone is harder to withdrawal from than anything except for pods, which are widely considered the worst, considering their intensity and length.

By that logic, it seems that the decision to go on methadone instead of suboxone means that one will in effect likely be dependent on opiates forever, if the WD's are so unbearable.

 

[8L4YN3]

^Man, methadone can and will get you fucked up, it's a very potent opioid. Like 10mg can be fatal in children. This isnt even one of the myths, i think you misunderstood me. Anyways tolerance is the factor that changes this.

People like to claim that people on mmt are getting high and fucked up daily, and on bmt you're just well enough to function... This myth has nothing to do with whatever random HBO documentry you're citing, it's just through people not knowing what their talking about, and word of mouth.

No idea why you're bringing up methadone's withdrawal syndrome, anyways from what i've heard IV Oxymorphone is much more uncomfortable to withdraw from than even methadone...

Also the withdrawals are only unbearable if you jump from a hefty dose. Which isn't what the clinic does to you.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

No idea why you're bringing up methadone's withdrawal syndrome

Isn't the ability to eventually get off of maintenance the ultimate goal for a lot of people? I think that the relative ease/difficulty of weening off said maintenance drug should factor into ones decision making process as to which is better for them.

I was only addicted for a year before I got on suboxone, taking 300mg oxycodone daily either intranasaly or orally. Methadone would have been overkill for me.

If you are addicted for, lets say, 5 years and are an intravenous user, injecting 10-15 bags of heroin a day or so, I doubt suboxone would work for you and methadone would be a preferable alternative.

 

[8L4YN3]

^Yeah man i completely agree with what you're saying. Thing is buprenorphine isnt exactly a sure fire guranteed easy kick. Espcially in the higher dose range and definitely if you jump without tapering.. Totally agree though it is a better option unless you have a particularly big tolerance happening. But yeah you're pretty much right.

Although sometimes it comes down to what drug actually works for the person. I agree though unless your tolerance is up there, methadone would be overkill and a bigger problem than what the person already has, obviously thats not logical at all. 300-400mg of oxycodone a day though i would argue is enough togive methadone a go, after buprenorphine was tried first. Anything lower than this though would be considered overkill imo, unless like in the specific situation methadone maintainence was better than the alternative and the person did not like buprenorphine at all, for whatever reason. Sure you know what i mean anyways hah, i just smoked some bongs, hope i'm not too difficult to follow..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Although sometimes it comes down to what drug actually works for the person.

Exactly. Some people are allergic to buprenorphine, and others experience toxicity from methadone.

 

[rolls_]

I think suboxone is a great therapy but if you are in deep trouble using large doses even the highest sub dose probably wont stop you relapsing, this is where methadone comes in.

I think everyone should try suboxone first due to it not really getting you high which is a good thing if you can handle it, also the WD is going to be better.

But I think both drugs have their place in treatment and both can be 'better' depending on the person and what works, I just prefer suboxone due to it being less hardcore in that it won't get you as high which I think is needed if you want to quit drugs.

 

[donnie080208]

@8L4YN3

I Agree with all you have said, apart from maybe that methadone is overkill, for say a vic addiction or if you have only been using heroin a few short years at say a very low /amount a day habit (im sorry im paraphrasing u here some what)
Surely its not what amount of the drug u take which decides if u go on maintannce .but ONLY the negative effects its having on your life/health and how severe they are. Personally i never ,except very odd few days (once fortnight maybe) took more than 1 bag of heroin a day (I.v.0.2 bag, habit proper about 2 years) but still chose high dose methadone treatment. dont regret it.
The reasons are even this low habit was too costly for me to finantially afford and was messing up my mental health which was bad anyway, before the H.
I except though ,im lucky methadone treatment is free over here and is an easier decision/less worries.

 

[8L4YN3]

^If you read what i wrote, you'd see how i mentioned very clearly that if the methadone is going to be more serious a habit then the habit being treated, most times this isnt logical for someone to start methadone..

Though if the situation and lifestyle is bad(something that dosn't usually happen with a drug you can't even inject ie: a small hydro or oxycodone addiction). Methadone might be better than the alternative habit and lifestyle...

Anyways read my post before you reply.

Also dude of course you accepted the high dose methadone! As an opiate user i expect you would have. Your habit is now much more intense, but it's not a bad thing, i mean it might prove to be a silly decision to dose so high, when you actually didn't need it. So if you ever want to quit, you're going to be angry with yourself for pushing your habit that much more... But if you were very mentally addicted, wouldn't say methadone was a bad move. But sounds like your on more opioid now than what you actually were trying to treat..

If you got pain issues or something makes sense, but like with your habit, you know if you cant afford your habit it is an option to go cold turkey, a week later you're good. It's not like once you got a habit, methadone is the only option.. But yeah i dont really see the logic in like, you realise you're habit is getting bad, so you go and start an even bigger habit?...

 

[BananasAndOranges]

I wish I would have stuck to Subutex. I wish Methadone never came in my life. Granted when I got on the proper dose people noticed Me. They didn't notice me as a drug addict they noticed I do have a personality. The few times I took Bupe., I was very sad and depressed. I was in great great pain and I couldn't take it. It did take away Some of the withdrawal but the actual pain seemed to worsen after I took the Bupe. I want to sue the Detox I went to. They ruined my life. Not only did they take away my Subutex when I asked for them after being 5 days clean and only having a nasal 3mg heroin habit sometimes more sometimes less, they fucked me over when I got out. I was in pain it was like the withdrawals waited until the day I got out. I dunno WHY they didn't give my pills back. They claimed it was because I hadn't asked for them in detox. Why would I? Fuck. I dunno Methadone really saved me but I wish I could have stuck with Bupe. I dunno. I am very mixed about these 2 options I think they both suck. I don't think either of them are good. I would have been better with morphine tabs as needed. Seriously. I dunno why thats NOT an option. Your damned if you do or don't I guess. Methadone Still.

 

[rolls_]

so taper down and go on bupe?

 

[8L4YN3]

I wish I would have stuck to Subutex. I wish Methadone never came in my life. Granted when I got on the proper dose people noticed Me. They didn't notice me as a drug addict they noticed I do have a personality. The few times I took Bupe., I was very sad and depressed. I was in great great pain and I couldn't take it. It did take away Some of the withdrawal but the actual pain seemed to worsen after I took the Bupe. I want to sue the Detox I went to. They ruined my life. Not only did they take away my Subutex when I asked for them after being 5 days clean and only having a nasal 3mg heroin habit sometimes more sometimes less, they fucked me over when I got out. I was in pain it was like the withdrawals waited until the day I got out. I dunno WHY they didn't give my pills back. They claimed it was because I hadn't asked for them in detox. Why would I? Fuck. I dunno Methadone really saved me but I wish I could have stuck with Bupe. I dunno. I am very mixed about these 2 options I think they both suck. I don't think either of them are good. I would have been better with morphine tabs as needed. Seriously. I dunno why thats NOT an option. Your damned if you do or don't I guess. Methadone Still.

LOL trust me alot of us would rather as much morphine as we need per day.... But damn methadone isnt bad lol, if you don't like it take less haha, do as rolls said.

 

[donnie080208]

@8L4YN3

no disrespect meant if i read what u were saying wrong, iknow u know your stuff but imo any amount of i.v. opiate even a £5 a day" habit" is much worse than a free methadone habit imo.(same subutex) as is the case in uk.
i probably am on more opiates then my street use by quite some distance on a conversion chart but my life is a lot better when im not chasing around after heroin.(i know youll agree with this,) i could detox of gear but never, ever by choice or for any decent amount of time even when i did manage to physically.

 

[Khadijah]

If you can get high on methadone, then your habit wasnt big enough to require methadone maintenance IMO.

People whose habits deserve methadone aint gettin high on the shit.

You CAN get high on methadone--If you aint got no tolerance and are a new user. Methadone IS recreational, for people who aint addicted to high amounts of strong-ass opiates. (Meaning-if you got a 100mg a day oxy habit, youll get high as shit off methadone. when you shoot a couple bundles of dope a day, and get on methadone, you aint gonna be gettin high.

The fact still is that folks on methadone for a habit that actually deserves methadone and cant be held down with just sub, dont get high. its just the kids who aint actually got a big enough habit to need the done, who got lowass tolerances, who can catch a nod from it.

 

[dscorp]

I currently prefer MMT over BMT. While on bupe I was never able to stay off of heroin for longer than 2-3 weeks before I'd start shooting up again. In contrast, I only used heroin for the first 5 days I was on methadone, once I was dosed at 80mg going out to cop dope seemed like more of a hassle than it was worth. For me, methadone "ruins" heroin without feeling like I have been forced off of it, which is how I felt while taking suboxone. BMT feels to me similiar to detox/naltrexone treatment. I can "feel" something on my opiate receptors but it isnt comfortable and I was constantly aware of it. On Methadone I tend to completely forget that I am on any drug at all, and my depression and anxiety that I suffered from before and while I was using heroin is now completely gone.

Another observation I have made, is that for me at least, suboxone actually works quite well to detox from oxycodone. During my several past attempts to stop shooting heroin, I would try to transition from heroin to oral/nasal oxycodone (I have access to my wife's monthly prescription) and then jump to suboxone. I found I could dose 16mg of suboxone only 6-7 hours after my last oxy dose and be completely symptom free within 2 hours. When trying to go onto suboxone directly from heroin, I had to wait 36 hours after my last injection and then take only 8mg of bupe (oddly enough 16mg or higher actually still put me in precipitated withdrawal 36 hours later). Even then, it was impossible to obtain a fully comfortable, stable mental and physical state. Switching from heroin to methadone, on the other hand, is as simple as adjusting the dose upwards until I feel normal.

So for me, I cannot say that MMT or BMT is better than the other. It depends largely on the drug(s) used, amount used, and route of administration. I am currently on MMT
and am grateful that I have access to it where I live.


[EDIT] I stated that I was symptom free on bupe when jumping to it from oxycodone, but I didnt note that even though I felt better, I never achieved true stability and still always ended up shooting dope again, which is why I am now on Methadone instead of suboxone.

[EDIT 2] Going back over my post, when I said a high dose of bupe put me into withdrawal 36 hours after my last shot, I meant that the bupe made the withdrawal a lot worse. On dope even though I shot up 15-30bags a day I still never went into full withdrawal for over 24 hours after my last shot, where if I am using oxycodone I start withdrawing within a couple hours of my last dose which might explain why I was able to dose the bupe much quicker coming off oxy than heroin.

 

[brutus]

In my experience, it basically depends on what the recovering addict is trying to do with his or her life. If they cannot stand the thought of never using an opiate for the rest of their life and have been taking opiates for so long that they need to be on something for an extended amount of time or even the rest of ther life then methadone is the obvious answer.

However, if a person wants to move on with his or her life then they should get on bupe and taper down quickly as possible.

I went to MMT for a year after being on bupe for a year and a half. Now I am back on bupe and trying to quit eventually. Going to my clinic wasn't that bad to me, in a few months I was getting a weeks worth of takehomes and only having to go once a week. It's really impossible to say which drug is better than the other one because IME it is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[rolls_]

Wiggi basically sums it up nicely

 

[slowpoke1967]

i also must agree i went into the methadone program thinking that i was gonna be getting a buzz from the methadone and it kinda worried me ,,but from the start to now i have never ever had so much as a tiny buzz from methadone,,it does its job and thats it and to add it tastse like absolute shit so if your taking it to get a buzz it isnt even worthe the shity taste to even get the slightest buzz,,,the only reason i would switch to bupe or anything else is to get that fucking ugly taste outta my mouth,,believe me without a doubt there is absolutly no buzz from methadone in fact i think i looked it up once and finaly found a site that had the stats on this subject and i believe as stupid and ludicris as this sounds it said it would take 5000 mg of methadone to get ripped,,in which case i believe you would die on that ammount ,,im not saying fersure because i niether have tried it nor did i look ferther into the subject ,,i can however speak from my owne experience that you will not get high from methadone ,,,i will also add that i did get a nice buzz for the first month or so taking my cloneazepams after going and taking my dose of methadone ,,,,i know i know ,,,shouldnt be on benzos while on methadone but i am i am on 6 mgs of clones and 60 mg of temazepams along with a list of other shit ,,now i would be lying if i said i wasnt worried about the respiratory depression that happens to people but its been 1 year now with no effects even when i take 12 mgs and 60 mgs and seroquel etc on top of my methadone,,,but after the first month or so i no longer had that increase of feeling more from the benzos ,i take everything every day as i have for years with no extra effects etc,,,but the main claim that pisses me off is hearing constantly about getting high of methadone ,,,sorry but you dont get high ,,PERIOD,,,thanx for letting me vent ,,,peace everyone, and play safe.............

 

[laCster]

it's like comparing apples and oranges. they are both fruits, but taste different. everyone has their preferences...