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I honesty cannot conceive the validity of religion.

Samael said:
Well, I suppose it would depend if only a being such as what we call God could create the universe. Just because the universe may have been created doesn't necessarily provide irrefutable proof of the "God concept". It just means that someone or something made it. Who or what that was or is would still remain a mystery.
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I use the word god for lack of a better word. But yes im talking about a higher intelligence, mother earth, architect of the universe etc.
 
That's the concept I'm talking about. We can't prove or disprove that "architect" or "higher intelligence" concept. For all we know it could be a bunch of scientists in another universe who created our universe as some kind of experiment. People or beings that we could be like someday.

That's the beauty of the scientific method. It's detective work. There was this show on the discovery channel who explained how such a thing may have happened. From what I gathered, it would involve doing something far beyond our current ability to do. What he was saying, though, was that theoretically, we could someday create a universe of our own if we knew the proper method to do so.
 
Portillo said:
Nothing in my life comes from nothing so why should i believe the complex universe came from nothing. Did my house just appear one day or did intelligent ppl build it? Did i just appear from nothing or were my parents involved.
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Well even if this 'builder' blinked you into existence he did so from nothing into something. The two are relevant anyway. The lecture just shows you a less silly way of looking at it. Like infinity our brains have a hard time imagining nothing. You might like the lecture :)

I should also say he isn't a string theorist to my knowledge so it's a little more straight forward information :p
 
Enki said:
^If I posit a complex theory of God's origin will it make her more real then if she is simply posited as being eternal? Is eternity real even if it is not a being? Or does eternity have to have a start/stop point as well. A different mode entirely could be God, useful or not useful, existence or non--existence, true/not true-- entirely aside for the moment.

I had more but I think sleeps caught me :)
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I think eternity itself doesn't have a start and stop point, but there are cyclical movements that make up eternity that can been seen as a start point when they reach one point in the cycle and a stop point when they reach the opposite part of the cycle.

I like the idea of eternity being infinite in all senses of the word infinite.
I like to imagine a dude who's totally accepted, and wrapped their mind around, the fact that this eternity is, in fact, the larger picture of our reality. I think that's what it truly means to be well-adjusted :)
 
^ perhaps.

but i don't think it says "this is the answer and it's the only possible answer." to me it says "here's one answer and, in this scenario, there's no need for god.".

alasdair
 
i don't believe in god anyway so it doesn't matter. i can certainly see that the cosmological argument is, for me, flawed from the start.

alasdair
 
Fair enough, so even if the universe had a beginning theres no god. Understood.
 
yes. even if the universe had a beginning, i feel it may have 'just happened' and events weren't (necessarily) set in motion by a creator.

alasdair
 
prior to the universe, "just happened" makes as much rational sense as god when there is not even any time in which to happen it. prior to bb, all theories are equal in that sense. all equally invalid.
 
^I'm sensing you're one of those people who oppose dividing by zero. To each his own I guess. :) Prior to the beginning is our big chance for a prequel.
 
dividing by zero is the mark of the true devil, and is influencing our childrens into wearing pants too small for their pelvic bones.
 
imo dividing by zero is a path down the abyss. this is not necessarily a bad thing, though true, most can't handle it. if one navigates these asymptotic passages successfully, however, much benefit can be gleaned
 
How you can get the answer to this question.

If you are serious about getting an answer to this for you.
May I suggest a course of action?
Secure a Bible, go into your room close the door, tell God, or just say out loud "Do you exist",
read 1 John it is a short book. 1 John towards the back.
You shall have your answer.
This way you can make up your own mind and settle this question in your heart.
It does not take long at all.
I look forward to what you discover.
 
hoodrichgmoney said:
I just cannot fathom in any way how there is anything of a higher power or order.

It is actually distressing for me when people talk about religion because it is so fucking absurd.
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i use to feel the exact same way.. im actually the last person i would ever expect to believe in god..


but a few high dose acid trips and candy flips cleared up all my misunderstandings about god, religion, people, and life in general. and its not like i went looking for god when i took these drugs.. it just sort of found me. i dunno. i know where youre coming from though.

you should read some eckhart tolle or ram dass if youre interested in what god is really all about.. they really helped me develop and understanding of the unspeakable.
 
qwe said:
imo dividing by zero is a path down the abyss. this is not necessarily a bad thing, though true, most can't handle it. if one navigates these asymptotic passages successfully, however, much benefit can be gleaned
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i once dated the abyss, or so she seemed when we had sex or said anything to one another. when i reflect at that time it seems to have been more of a staring contest if anything.
 
discountsnow said:
If you are serious about getting an answer to this for you.
May I suggest a course of action?
Secure a Bible, go into your room close the door, tell God, or just say out loud "Do you exist"read 1 John it is a short book. 1 John towards the back.
You shall have your answer.This way you can make up your own mind and settle this question in your heart.
It does not take long at all.
I look forward to what you discover.
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Do you suggest that this be done with more than one religious system? A Bible seems to skew the results towards not just answering if there is a supernatural realm but towards developing a brand preference when it comes to the question.

If the question were like "Do water filters work?"

Your answer would be like "Give my kind a try one time and the matter will be settled."


You are here to convert, are you not? Do any other spiritual systems hold any interest for you except as their being impediments to people believing as you believe? If anyone here suggests you commit an hour to testing a non-Christian proposition do you think you would be capable or willing?
 
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