[MEGA] Every Year's Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences

[Artificial Emotion]

if you trim the one taproot the plant will not be adversely affected but IT WILL redistribute the auxins and cytokinines resulting in a branchng root system...... its a plant physiological fact

BIOLOGY OF ROOT GROWTH

A plant's root system functions to conduct water and nutrients, move water and minerals and store food (Campbell, 1989).
Most trees have a taproot system, consisting of one large, vertical root (taproot) which produces many smaller secondary roots (lateral roots). The first taproot develops directly from the root meristem of the seed embryo. Lateral roots on the other hand, develop from the deep-seated outer layer of the stele, also known as the pericycle. Three branches of lateral roots may develop off of the tap root. The new branch is usually a long root that becomes a part of the permanent woody root system. The second type of lateral roots are short roots. The final type of lateral roots are developed when short roots convert to long roots. Following an injury to the woody long root tip, a branch results and usually two more long root tips follows. Injury can also occur to the non-woody lateral roots. Forking of replacement lateral roots follow (Kozlowski and Pallardy, 1997). Severed roots decompose and the ends will form calluses. Bud-like root primordia may develop near these callous tips (May, 1984). In general, injury to the root system (such as that from root pruning) leads to the formation of additional lateral roots and an a well developed root system.

Root fibrosity is a term used by nursery managers to refer to the extensive, multi-branched tree roots spread out under the soil surface. The attributes of a fibrous root system are important to a young, transplanted seedling's establishment and survival. Root fibrosity gives the tree extensive exposure to soil water and minerals and also helps to anchor it in place (Campbell, 1989). In addition, trees with a fibrous root system are able to withstand drought better than shallow, sparsely branched root systems (Kozlowski and Pallardy, 1997).

UNDERCUTTING EFFECTS ON ROOTS

The regeneration of roots following an undercutting is important to transplanted tree's survival, establishment and growth. Numerous studies have shown that a compact, fibrous root system result from undercutting (Racey and Racey, 1988). In addition, the denser, more fibrous root system results in a better balanced tree at the time of lifting.

Root pruning has been shown to increase both the amount of root surface area and the percentage of the total root system. A heavily branched root system in trees can be produced by multiple undercuttings the tap root (Racey and Racey, 1988).
Close examination of undercut roots revels that many small roots will regenerate from each severed one. Such trees, because of their greater compactness of the root system, are easier to lift and transplant (Stoeckeler and Jones, 1957). Over time, however, some of the small replacement roots may begin to deteriorate. Lifting the trees when the number of replacement roots is the highest will maximize the total root surface area and hence survival (Watson and Sydnor, 1987).
Root quality and vigor were shown to increase with undercutting of loblolly pine (Wisniewski et al, 1991). New lateral root production was shown to occur in red oak after multiple undercuttings (Harmer and Walder, 1994).
Undercutting was shown to be very effective in fine root production of black walnut (Williams, 1972), Douglas fir (Tanaka et al, 1974), and yellow poplar (Thor, 1965).

Decapitation of the primary roots of Pisum sativum L. resulted in a significant increase in the initiation of lateral root primordia within 12 h of the surgical treatment. Although this increase occurred both in the light and in the dark, lateral root initiation and development was much more rapid in the dark. The formation of lateral root primordia was accompanied by increased levels of endogenous cytokinins suggesting that newly formed root primordia start producing cytokinins very soon after being initiated. The significance of the present results in terms of possible sites of synthesis in vegetative tissue is discussed

Cutting and pasting something you found on the net about trees and garlic isn't much use to us.

There's a big difference between the conventional type of root pruning people undertake and Prelude accidentally cutting off a bit of the taproot 8)

Here's an explanation of undercutting:

The term root undercutting is generally used to describe a form of root manipulation. In general, root pruning is an umbrella term which refers to the above ground root trimming while undercutting is best applied to the severance of the plants roots in situ in the nursery seedbed (Sutton, 1967; Sutton and Tinus, 1983). The undercutting of roots is accomplished by drawing a horizontally mounted, thin, sharpened blade through the nursery bed, severing roots along the way (Hobbs et al, 1986)

Just to make it clear to you. I was explaining that in practice, although cutting off the taproot may have a similar effect on removing apical dominance from the taproot, in practice this will not produce a result one would get from topping. You don't hear about people trimming the taproot to promote lateral secondary root branching now do you?

 

[Artificial Emotion]

AE, Ive got all of my plants under 600 watt MH, as of right now, i've got 3 plants ready , mature ,to flower, (but only 11 inches tall)
The clones I got are still maybe 6-8 inches, I was saying, if by the time I start to Flower the 3 plants that ARE mature, would I be able to keep these Clones that are behind , under the HPS for 12 hours, while the Larger plants are flowering, and put the clones under some T8's to keep them from flowering until they are the size I want them, if that makes sense.

Yes you would be able to definitely IMO, IF you are up to moving them every day.

Sorry, I missed muncheez response. I agree, you should just flower them all at the same time. However, in future I would have a separate section to keep mums and a vegetative area and a flower area so that you can have a perpetual harvest. So, you would for example veg them for 4 weeks in the veg area, then switch them to the flower area for 8 weeks. 4 weeks into flower you would then take some clones from your mother plant(s) in the mum section and put them in the veg area for 4 weeks, starting the whole process over again.

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Well, all in all, My Closet reaches 8 1/2 feet, At the 6 foot mark,(Where my Hood Hangs off)
I have a shelf (you might have seen them in previous posts when I showed the whole closet). (So I wouldn't have to move them too far)

I was thinking of Trying to take an area of this shelf up there, and light proofing it some how, and set up some T8s or T5s..(they have a whole T8 light set up, for 10$ on sale right now.)

I just gotta find a way to light proof that closet, Ill take some pics and see if any of you can come up with ideas, because I tried to light proof this area before, it was just a bit difficult, but all I had was tacks and some black tarp.
lol

Also, How long do Carbon filters last, Ive got a 6 inch Carbon filter, about 3 ft tall , Im wondering if I should replace it before I flower this time around, or what...

Ill take some pics of my closet before I ask questions about 'remodling'.
lol.
I would honestly like to just use another Area to veg, but, I dont know, Im only using about 1/3 of the space in my closet, I know I could do Something with it, just dont know what, maybe buy a small 3X3 tent?

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Do you mean 8 1/2 ft wide? If so, you could divide it into a veg and flowering room.

Carbon filters can last between a few months up to a couple of years, depending on the brand/quality. The type I use (Rhino Pro) generally lasts at least 18 months, often longer. It also depends on the RH of the air. They don't work well above 75% RH. For optimum lifespan aim for a max of about 70% RH. Also regularly wash the dust filter and make sure air is pulled through it, not pushed through.

 

[Arobskittle]

Cutting and pasting something you found on the net about trees and garlic isn't much use to us.

There's a big difference between the conventional type of root pruning people undertake and Prelude accidentally cutting off a bit of the taproot 8)

Here's an explanation of undercutting:



Just to make it clear to you. I was explaining that in practice, although cutting off the taproot may have a similar effect on removing apical dominance from the taproot, in practice this will not produce a result one would get from topping. You don't hear about people trimming the taproot to promote lateral secondary root branching now do you?

ok first let me start off by saying that the relationship between plants physiological functions is strong enough to make those connections.

all i was saying is that his plant wont die, it will only get stronger, and the roots are going to grow more at the secondary sites to make up for the loss, just like topping.

secondly how does removing apical dominance not achieve more lateral branching? i thought that was what you do when you top a plant?

and third it was peas not garlic

I don't really care all I was mostly saying that its not that big a deal and the plant is going to be fine, it is a weed after all.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I don't really care all I was mostly saying that its not that big a deal and the plant is going to be fine, it is a weed after all.

trimming the taproot can be beneficial to the root system as a whole. It redistributes the growth hormones similar to topping a plant.

Okay then.

I didn't mean that it wouldn't produce any lateral branching, just that likely wouldn't lead to an increase in yield in the same way as it would if you topped the plant. The effect would be negligible is what I was saying.

Pea/garlic, it's neither here nor there really.

But anyway...

 

[panic in paradise]

have yall heard of or tried shaving a couple layers away from a few inches above the main stem base?

this is supposed to be normal old practice in thailand, doing so five days before harvest is supposed to trap the thc, alter the bud color, and fatten them up from shock as well.

i may do this with my Purple Haze.
or ill never know, you know?

 

[Arobskittle]

have yall heard of or tried shaving a couple layers away from a few inches above the main stem base?

this is supposed to be normal old practice in thailand, doing so five days before harvest is supposed to trap the thc, alter the bud color, and fatten them up from shock as well.

i may do this with my Purple Haze.
or ill never know, you know?

I assume this is similar to the putting a stick thru the stem that was discussed near the end of the last thread...
wise420 posted this link in the other thread.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AngryHippySlayer#p/u/4/Ar0dSw_jS_Y


I wanna give it a shot on a grape ape and have a side by side with one that does not get it to compare.....

would you shave it all the way around or just on one side?

 

[panic in paradise]

yeah i saw that, and remembered to ask.

i would assume maybe three even 1.5 inch long even "peels"with some space, evenly apart around the base circumference, a third the way up...?


im also curious to play with the lights more, heh, and read that it is popular with a lot of canadian breeders& growers to give 12 on, 6 off, the entire cycle.
i have gone to 14 hour nights, and then stepped back 15 minute a day after results where established. twice i have ran 24 hour halide to finish before too, both of these methods showed a notable result, definitely.

but 12 on 6 off, sounds like it may be beneficial to the plant, and me not having to worry about the climate, making sure im there, and awake to open the door on time, and shut it at a decent time.
i keep off hours, and it gets very hot, cold, or humid fast.


i do also want to try what you mentioned, im preparing to pull a P.Haze, but snagged part of the tallest two stems, that breed really fattens up quick after doing so, the trich coverage doubled on the sugar leafs in maybe 3 days, the nodes and tops are swelling fast too especially after all that bat guano.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

^ it's been demonstrated that during veg 20 hours lights on/4 off is optimum for increased yields and any further increases or decreases in the number of hours the lights are on really won't produce an increase in yields. 12 hours on/off is ideal for bloom. I personally use 20/4 and 12/12 for veg and bloom respectively and get excellent results. 24/0 is acceptable for propagation though.

Try and have the lights on during the night since temps are naturally colder during the night and electricity is sometimes cheaper. Here in the UK I have an electricity plan called 'Economy 7' which gives me really cheap electricity (2.45p/kWh) for 7 hours during the night, so I take advantage of this. I'm considering adding some more light (125W CFLs suspended vertically with no reflectors at the very least) which would turn on using timers during these 7 hours to take advantage of this since the electricity is so cheap during this period it's not funny.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I can't wait to try out grafting. I plan to graft at least 10 strains onto one base mum plant. This is the ultimate way of keeping plant numbers down

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Well it's quite easy (there are quite a few different grafting techniques). If you want to see it being done have a look on Youtube. You need a very healthy and strong base mum to be able to support the foliage and deal with the stress, but theoretically and in practice if you do it right, you can graft quite a few different strains onto the same base (not at the same time). I've seen it done - there's no question that it works

There's no particular reason they need to be clones. As long as the plant is fairly mature and healthy it could be either a seed or clone I believe.

edit: Grafting Cannabis Plants

 

[Artificial Emotion]

^ yeah, exactly. One plant with 10 strains means you get busted get busted for one plant, not 10 or 11. It also saves on space, lighting and costs/labour in general.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

That 'advanced' technique someone mentioned earlier is the worst advice I've heard in a long time. Seriously, 'stress' causing an increase in resin production? The guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Notice how popular topping, supercropping etc. are in comparison with this technique of stabbing the stem with a fucking knife? That in and of itself says something.

Basic plant/cannabis physiology/botany suggest his ramblings are complete BS. Please don't damage your plants.

I mean, just ask yourself why in so few places you will find reference to this technique. The guy should be slapped for giving shit advice.

If I could send the guy a message, I would write, complete an utter fail! I don't care how many people on here try and defend it. That's a really silly thing to do to your plants. I feel the same way about shaving off a bit off the stem like paradise talked about. No offence mate. It won't do your plants any good whatsoever. It especially won't do any of the things you mentioned. Not in a million years - in fact it's inviting infections to occur.

But then again, if you want to stab your plant with a stick or whatever two weeks before harvest because of this guys video then that's ultimately up to you, but hopefully you guys will have more common sense than that.

 

[w01fg4ng]

have yall heard of or tried shaving a couple layers away from a few inches above the main stem base?

this is supposed to be normal old practice in thailand, doing so five days before harvest is supposed to trap the thc, alter the bud color, and fatten them up from shock as well.

i may do this with my Purple Haze.
or ill never know, you know?

Let us know how it goes man! That sounds cool.

One plant with 10 strains means you get busted get busted for one plant, not 10 or 11. It also saves on space, lighting and costs/labour in general.

Not really, because to graft 10 strains, means that at some point you DO actually have to posses AND grow 10+ plants. Before they are grafted you are forced to have those numbers; so your concern for being "less-busted" doesn't really apply here. You will also not save much on labor cost.

Seriously, 'stress' causing an increase in resin production?

Myself, I have seen good results from stressing the plant out the last week by not feeding them any water. This is simply one of the many ways of stressing a plant out to increase resin, yield, ect... "Super-cropping", pruning, and the likes are all simple ways to achieve a similar goal.

There are thousands of ways to stress a plant out in a good way, but you never want to go too far in any direction or else it can become a problem instead of a help.

 

[Wise420]

I'd like to see a comparison done with that stalk peircing technique.

The bloke who posted that vid is a top grower and definatly know's his stuff.

I wouldnt be ruling anything out untill there's a photo comparison between 2 plant's.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Let us know how it goes man! That sounds cool.



Myself, I have seen good results from stressing the plant out the last week by not feeding them any water. This is simply one of the many ways of stressing a plant out to increase resin, yield, ect... "Super-cropping", pruning, and the likes are all simple ways to achieve a similar goal.

There are thousands of ways to stress a plant out in a good way, but you never want to go too far in any direction or else it can become a problem instead of a help.

Yes but these techniques don't work because they stress the plant, they work in spite of the stress they might cause.

Lets take Supercrpoping or pruning. Part of the reason why supercropping works is because bending over the plant keeps the canopy at an even height. Due to the inverse light pyramid, getting the canopy even and as close to the light as possible will increase yields. It also improves the flow of fluids and nutrients up the stem. Pruning is an umbrella term and if you mean topping, it works by destroying apical dominance, since when you remove the growth tip it will promote side branching and a bushy plant rather than a tall plant with the top close to the light and the rest at the bottom not receiving any. Removing unhealthy leaves suffering from chlorosis or ones which are obviously non productive i.e. taking more energy than they supply, will obviously help yields. But these don't work by stressing the plant in and of itself, which is a fundamentally bad and not a good thing.

The way yield is increased is by keeping stess to an absolute minimum.

My opinion is that if it really worked you would find more reference to the technique by doing a simple search Google but you don't because it doesn't work. I found a couple of threads in which there were people saying it was a bad idea but apart from that not much more reference to it. Look at the thousands of pages on topping, supercropping etc in comparison.

It's quite a well known fundamental concept that low stress growing increases yield. This is why LST works so well aka low stress training.
But I'm really glad you've decided against sticking a stake through them in the end I knew you'd agree in the end.

Unfortunately on the internet anyone can post a video making a claim with nothing to back it up, giving an air of credibility.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of sticking a stick through the base of your plant to increase yields. To me it seems like a pretty rediculous to be honest. It might even hinder the flow of nutrients, sugars and water through the phloem and xylem.

edit: sorry if it seemed as if I was talking to you about the stress=better plants thing mr muncheez. I got confused and thought you'd posted the post above when it was in fact wolfgang (no surprise there).

Of course you probably know that stress most definitely does not equal better plants, as I've just said.

Anyone who knows anything about growing any sort of plant knows that less stress is better when growing.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Not really, because to graft 10 strains, means that at some point you DO actually have to posses AND grow 10+ plants. Before they are grafted you are forced to have those numbers; so your concern for being "less-busted" doesn't really apply here. You will also not save much on labor cost.

If you want me to explain it then here we go:

Yes, you might need to own each of the ten plants but not all at the same time and that's the most important thing at the end of the day. Once they've been grafted onto the plant then you can have all those strains on the single plant for over a decade. That's the whole point. You add to the mother plant by grafting on a strain every time you find a plant you enjoy and build upon it slowly but surely so that instead of having 10 mums over the long term you build upon it over time. So which do you think is better, having 10 or 15 mums over 15 years, in addition to all the plants you're growing (so if you're growing 10 that would be 20 or 25 plants total) or build upon the strains grafted onto your mum slowly every time you find a plant you like?

So of course it reduces risks. I know someone who has 12 different mums that he's collected over the years which he's kept every time he's collected one that he likes. Instead of doing this, he could have one mum as the base and just add to it every time he finds a plant he likes.

As for labor costs, yes it does help, since if you have one plant over say 15 years, this obviously takes less time to maintain than 15 separate plants. If you're doing it in compost in a pot bonsai style it's much easier to maintain than 15 plants.

I thought this concept really goes without saying. According to your logic someone who's owned 500 plants over the course of their life will get busted for 500 plants since they've owned them at some point throughout their life. That just wouldn't happen, unless you're lax enough to allow the police to be able to prove past possession. This wouldn't happen if you're careful and don't keep photos etc (but even then they wouldn't necessarily try or be able to prosecute). Basically use your common sense. You seem to think that if you want to graft 10 plants, you need to have those 10 plants at the same time. But that's not true. You can graft on a cutting each time you grow the plant, so that you can build upon it over the course of years if you so wish.

 

[w01fg4ng]

Part of the reason why supercropping works is because bending over the plant keeps the canopy at an even height.

Bending over the plant STRESSES the branch itself, which is why the branch creates a knot and bulges up. The strengthening of the branch is a direct cause from the stress of supercropping and that specifically has nothing to do with the height, lights, ect...
It's the same reason why outdoor crops are stronger and sturdier; the wind creates a similar STRESS on the plant that supercropping does.

My opinion is that if it really worked you would find more reference to the technique by doing a simple search Google but you don't because it doesn't work.

You posted something worthy on page 2 which applies to YOU in this situation.

Well, as they say, 'don't knock it till you've tried it! Like mr muncheez, who is open meinded sad, don't dismiss it.

^ Do you see how you have completely dismissed this idea about cutting the stem without ever trying it?

Once they've been grafted onto the plant then you can have all those strains on the single plant for over a decade.

Way to completely leave out the information about 10+ plants spread out over 10 years. So I guess you are right about the numbers if THATS the case, but now you are going to tell me that keeping a mother alive for 10 years is not going to cause you any extra labor to keep her healthy and green? Something tells me you have never done this before, but it's just a hunch...

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Bending over the plant STRESSES the branch itself, which is why the branch creates a knot and bulges up. The strengthening of the branch is a direct cause from the stress of supercropping and that specifically has nothing to do with the height, lights, ect...
It's the same reason why outdoor crops are stronger and sturdier; the wind creates a similar STRESS on the plant that supercropping does.

You're missing the point. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't jump to conclusions by thinking that any kind of stress willy nilly on a plant will cause a plant to become more resinous because one kind of mechanical stress may happen to be beneficial.

And also, I'm uncomfortable about how you're making generalisations about the word 'stress' since there are different types. As a general rule, stress is bad.

^ Do you see how you have completely dismissed this idea about cutting the stem without ever trying it?

I have absolutely no desire to try it and you don't have to have tried everything in order to have an opinion on it. I'm not saying I'm a psychiatrist, but by way of an example, do you think a psychiatrist needs to have suffered from depression in order to discuss it? I'm thinking of just ignoring you if you're claiming that depriving a plant of water benefits in any way. Seems like you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

vWay to completely leave out the information about 10+ plants spread out over 10 years. So I guess you are right about the numbers if THATS the case, but now you are going to tell me that keeping a mother dalive for 10 years is not going to cause you any extra labor to keep her healthy and green? Something tells me you have never done this before, but it's just a hunch...[/QUOTE]

Sorry but isn't it obvious? Can't you work that out for yourself? Do I really need to spell it out to you so you understand the potential legal benefits of grafting? I was introducing a concept and the benefits of having fewer plants etc. should be obvious.

Of course I've never done it before. I think it's kind of obvious in the part where I explain that I can't wait to try it.

And what exactly is the point of your ranting? Something tells me you just want to critisize everything I say for the point of it.