'Born Illegal' -- Exploring the Powerful Advanced Psychedelics Invented by the Father

[Astrobee]

Confusion

These analog laws seem confusing, and LEO won't pass up an opportunity to exploit this confusion. In the US, the laws vary state to state. In some you can possess a substance, but I don't think in any state you are permitted to consume a "research chemical" and no sane vendor would ever suggest you do. What is plant fertilizer in one state is treated like tainted smack in another.

Imagine a time when all dealers get so paranoid (or so busted) that we are all forced to obtain substances from shady internet vendors, who then amalgamate into one giant McDonald's serving up crappy product at outrageous prices (with manufacturing based in China and corporate headquarters in the Camens).

It's the American Way.

 

[szuko000]

“My experimentation with psychedelics came as a result of the same understanding I went through with marijuana... if I had been lied to my whole life about that, I figured I'd find out what else I was lied to about.”

I hate that line. Why not just say "I got high off weed, liked getting high figured id try other things" Why make it sound like marijuana single handedly opened your eyes to the world of government propaganda and started your crusade of drug using because you suddenly felt lied and cheated. I doubt that, it was i like getting high!

 

[theotherside]

^^^From your limited perspective maybe that's true..........for others psych's open them up to a level not seen by your eyes No offense in my response....just advocating more research on your part. I always say...more reading, less posting in areas unknown to your life experience. Half the people on BL say things like..."jagermeister bombs fuuuuuuuuck yeah man!!!!" and the other half sit and have a quick laugh. My favorite line is how much DMX do I take to get high.

 

[Mona Lisa]

I'm wondering if the fact that he sold it as a pill or capsule was what got him ultimately into trouble. If he'd sold it as not for human consumption in mere powder form, he might have had a stronger defence. Of course it's outrageous, but the moral of the story is: don't sell or even give anything away to strangers in settings such as this!! He was too trusting...I'm afraid that he was foolish and unfortunately got caught. Sucks but there you have it. Of course it's not fair but who said our system is fair?

 

[SKL]

^ Indeed. The article is a little silly. It makes this kid out to be an innocent victim, but he sold drugs (an illegal act), and got busted, which is a statistical chance when you commit an illegal act. Now, I am absolutely in favor of exercising your free will in these matters even if it is contrary to the law, but if you do so, you aren't a victim if you get caught, except maybe of your own willingness to break the law. I'm also all in favor of agitating for change and highlighting the damages that the drug war inflicts, but something about this article rubs me the wrong way.

Particularly obnoxious is the elitist undercurrent in the whole thing. Who really cares what his academic credentials are? In fact it's kind of disturbing that there is such a focus on them. And the whole bit about his not being a drug dealer ... well, he sold drugs, for money, to an undercover police officer. In legal terms, that's clear cut. Whether the law is right or wrong the guy has no leg to stand on. Would the author of this article be so up in arms about any on of the innumerable young men (and women) of much more disadvantaged backgrounds who get popped selling dime bags to undercovers on the street?

And, fucked up as it is, this sort of undercover operation is a common tactic. Everyone in the game is aware of it. People who are doing this sort of business should be aware of the risks. And when the risks bite someone in the ass, it is sad, but it is a statistical risk that those people chose to took on.

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

American cops uggh - horrible, horrible people.

^ Indeed. The article is a little silly. It makes this kid out to be an innocent victim, but he sold drugs (an illegal act), and got busted, which is a statistical chance when you commit an illegal act. Now, I am absolutely in favor of exercising your free will in these matters even if it is contrary to the law, but if you do so, you aren't a victim if you get caught, except maybe of your own willingness to break the law. I'm also all in favor of agitating for change and highlighting the damages that the drug war inflicts, but something about this article rubs me the wrong way.

Particularly obnoxious is the elitist undercurrent in the whole thing. Who really cares what his academic credentials are? In fact it's kind of disturbing that there is such a focus on them. And the whole bit about his not being a drug dealer ... well, he sold drugs, for money, to an undercover police officer. In legal terms, that's clear cut. Whether the law is right or wrong the guy has no leg to stand on. Would the author of this article be so up in arms about any on of the innumerable young men (and women) of much more disadvantaged backgrounds who get popped selling dime bags to undercovers on the street?

And, fucked up as it is, this sort of undercover operation is a common tactic. Everyone in the game is aware of it. People who are doing this sort of business should be aware of the risks. And when the risks bite someone in the ass, it is sad, but it is a statistical risk that those people chose to took on.

I think it's fundamental part of American culture that if you are deemed "productive" (rich, successful, well connected), the laws can be bent for your benefit. Think about this way, if you are a poor person and you're caught with some substance, most of the time you'll get fucked. If you're some celebrity caught with coke, you might be featured on TMZ and you might have to spend some time in courts or whatever, but nothing seriously bad is ever going to happen to you.

Or consider economic crimes, if some uneducated inner city youth robs a store for about $1000, he'll be fucked for life. Contrast that with white collar crimes where thousands can lose their savings or even become unemployed. Criminal charges are almost never ever brought up, the government might make a point with someone like Madoff or something, but that's just for show. Most of the times, the organization involved just gets fined with some ridiculously small fee that can be internalized as the cost of doing business. Even with Madoff, you can see how entitled he felt considering he asked for his sentence to be reduced to 25 years and to be stationed in a medium security prison with a high percentage of Jewish inmates.

Regarding the whole elitist angle, I think it makes sense in context of the audience that this article seems to be targeting. I think it would be very difficult for the average 'productive' American to identify with the victim if it was regular person with a 3.0 GPA. I think the typical attitude would be something like "I work hard all my life, follow the law and I am fine without these strange 2CXYZ42 chemicals - it's his fault that he didn't follow the law." In my experience (which is probably highly biased considering most of the four years I lived in the states was in a provincial college town full of insecure nerds and frat trash), people who achieve any measure of success in the states tend to be arrogantly self righteous and largely incapable of thinking outside of their own "self-imposed box" (which tends to be highly egoistic and materialistic in nature).

 

[rangrz]

^ agreed
He did indeed violate a law making illegal the possession and trafficking of a chemical. (trafficking doesnt not money)

Since the undie asked for mdma and got 2c-i, its still an mdma charge, as selling something else as a drug is the same offense as if it where the drug.

The laws should be changed, but the cop was doing his job by the book.

And degree's are pieces of paper with words on them, just like my medals are pieces of fancy cast metal....i.e. kind of worthless.

 

[liquidreality]

Wow, that brutal! His life was ruined by 10mg of 2C-I!! However, I do agree that the article has a very pretentious elitist tone. If that were to happen to say, someone from a minority or a disenfranchised background, the story would have read very differently. Just because he is well educated and is white does not mean he should get anymore sympathy than anyone else. Although, it is absolutely discussing some of the tactics police use to arrest people. I, for one, would have got the hell out of the festival if I knew it was swarming with undercover LEOs. Thank god I live in Canada!

 

[SKL]

“I told the undercover the charges wouldn’t stick,” Reed said.

Plus, this is not the way to interact with police 8)

I got the crap kicked out of me once for getting lippy, when I didn't even have anything on me, I just count my blessings they didn't plant something.

Being provocative with the law is not wise, nor is saying anything to begin with.

Reed believed it was not against the law to possess 2C-I since it is an “unscheduled” compound, meaning it does not appear on the federal schedule (or ranking system) of Controlled Substances, nor is it explicitly made illegal in any known law. This makes it technically “not-illegal.” This distinction was critical to Reed, because he had worked too hard to jeopardize everything he had going for him to risk getting busted for possession of illegal drugs.

And this is just ridiculous on many levels.

I think a lot of this has to do with silly, sensationalistic writing, more than this kid in question. The writer is apparently involved in some kind of a film, too, that I'd head about and had some hopes for, but so far from this article anyway he seems like a complete hack, and a histrionic one at that. Any attempt to address the prohibition issue in the media will have to be done with a lot more insight.

 

[Vader]

Until the 20th century, mescaline and cannabis were the only known drugs that were considered “psychedelic”

Nothing was considered psychedelic before the twentieth century. Neither the word, nor the concept, existed.

 

[raver2008]

Shit like this is going to be the cause of someone blowing the dea's headquarters up or going on a cop killing sprea after their once hopefull lives are destroyed by the goverment and asshole cops who dont care about justice and only want a high number of arrests. Fucking scum bags

 

[kong]

I'm thinking about starting an assisted suicide foundation for dea agents. Every dollar counts.

 

[Shambles]

Plus, this is not the way to interact with police 8)

I got the crap kicked out of me once for getting lippy, when I didn't even have anything on me, I just count my blessings they didn't plant something.

Being provocative with the law is not wise, nor is saying anything to begin with.

Whilst I suspect many BLers know this all too well, your "average law-abiding citizen" likely wouldn't believe it even if they were told that is the case. They never covered that aspect in any of the Police Academy films - police are the Good Guys and wouldn't behave that way... At least they shouldn't. The fact that it happens doesn't make it acceptable. The same applies to entrapment but maybe that is more shocking to those that live in countries where it's illegal - it's the entrapment angle that I found most revolting.

 

[GlassAss420]

Particularly obnoxious is the elitist undercurrent in the whole thing. Who really cares what his academic credentials are? In fact it's kind of disturbing that there is such a focus on them. And the whole bit about his not being a drug dealer ... well, he sold drugs, for money, to an undercover police officer. In legal terms, that's clear cut. Whether the law is right or wrong the guy has no leg to stand on. Would the author of this article be so up in arms about any on of the innumerable young men (and women) of much more disadvantaged backgrounds who get popped selling dime bags to undercovers on the street?

Yes but the corner boys are making a living selling destructive drugs like crack and heroin. I believe people have a right to do and sell those drugs too, however, this kid was not making a living doing this, it was a one-off kinda thing. AFOAF ie SWIM got popped for helping someone out and it just seems so ludacrist to have Delivery of controlled substance on your record if all you've ever done is help out a couple friends from time to time.. The law wasn't intended to be enforced like that.. esp on a small personal level, or anything thats not making a lot of money.. its bullshit..

 

[vecktor]

Thank fuck that in the UK, despite extensive drug abuse laws, the police are forbidden from using entrapment techniques in arrests

the law in the UK is a vague as can be, if the prosecution can show that the entrapment did not cause the defendant to do something the defendant wouldn't otherwise have done then they can use it.
There are plenty of smugglers sitting in jail as we speak having been entrapped by undercover customs and SOCA officers, the arguament being that they were going to smuggle anyway but perhaps not then and there.....

the UK is as fucked as the US

 

[mmajunkie]

Great article makes me h8 the system just a little bit more. It's a sad world we live in when we can't even choose what we put into our bodies and theres things like the analogue act which are so vague im sure most politicians arent even sure of what they entail. This is just one of the many injustices that make revolution a necessity.

 

[villian]

Yes but the corner boys are making a living selling destructive drugs like crack and heroin. I believe people have a right to do and sell those drugs too, however, this kid was not making a living doing this, it was a one-off kinda thing. AFOAF ie SWIM got popped for helping someone out and it just seems so ludacrist to have Delivery of controlled substance on your record if all you've ever done is help out a couple friends from time to time.. The law wasn't intended to be enforced like that.. esp on a small personal level, or anything thats not making a lot of money.. its bullshit..

So let me get this straight.. It's OK to arrest corner boys because they are selling "destructive drugs" and making a living off of it. However, if you are "helping out a friend" and don't sell drugs everyday -- so the law wasn't intended for you?

I see. 8)

 

[SKL]

Hippies 8)

How do you suppose the law was "intended?"

It was intended to make drugs illegal.

Drugs are illegal.

This kid liked drugs, and decided to go ahead and do, and sell, them ... as have the majority of people on this board. He figured that he could probably get away with what he was doing, which was true, but he found himself on the wrong end of a statistic.

It's a tragedy, of course, but he's anything but an innocent victim, and claiming that he was is just silly ... to think that this law shouldn't apply to you because you're dealing in non-"destructive" drugs (whilst psychedelics can be plenty destructive), or that you're only small time, is the height of the sort of entitled naivete which exemplifies everything that is wrong with our generation.

To put it succintly (if horribly), as a conservative parent wrote to their child, who attended Kent State Univeristy, after the massacre: "Avoid revolution or expect to get shot."

 

[Counterintuitive]

I enjoyed reading SomeKindaLove's responses' more than the article itself; at least his comments stirred some emotion within me. I'm not sure how any competent person is able to feel anything but apathetic towards Mr. Reed's situation.

 

[FractalStructure]

This exact thing happened to a friend of mine (a setup)! It involved 2ce though, he had 70mg in 7 capsules, and this kid kept bugging him for psychedelics and wouldnt stop, I remember he just wouldnt shut up, and this was a kid who sold drugs himself, so my friend gave in, and told him "okay I have something thats kinda like mescaline", and the "buyer" says "awesome! I'll be there in 10 mins". So, later, this guy's car pulls up, my friend goes outside, and out of HIS car come 3 or so undercover cops. They frisk him, he asks why they're doing this and they said "it looked like you were trying to do something to that car over there". He responds with the truth: "thats MY DAD'S CAR!", regardless of their bs excuse they reached into his pockets and found the 7 capsules and said "aha! Mescaline!". He had to spend 2 nights in jail and was charged with a *felony* for "possession of a hallucinogen" and ALSO "possession of a hallucinogenIC".

They kept saying it was a "gram of mescaline" (it was 70mg in volume, no filler), and it kept being a felony, then he went to a lawyer, his parents shelled out $4k, and the lawyer said it is illegal to have a HALLUCINOGEN in your possession. He said, the reason there is also a charge for "hallucinogenic" is in case it turns out to be a drug thats not quite a hallucinogen, like an MDxx, its a fail-safe. I thought things worked by schedule? 2ce is not scheduled, and the Analog act Also, another key thing was that HE HAD TO GO TO ANOTHER FRIEND TO GET THE 2CE BECAUSE THE "BUYER" KEPT HARASSING HIM FOR IT, that is entrapment, no? The court wouldnt even test the substance or acknowledge that it wasnt even a 10th of a gram until he paid for the lawyer. The US legal system is already fucked, and I hope

1) that people stop getting screwed over for doing things that aren't illegal. possession of 2ce alone should not warrant arrest. Its like getting arrested for Robitussin. Yes, DXM is a powerful dissociative, and its technically uncontrolled. Same with 2ce. Also, DXM is related to a couple scheduled substances ("analog act")

2) That the analogs some of us know and love like the 4-substituted tryptamines, the 2c's, etc will not be made unavailable or be turned into street drugs, or the current means of getting them becomes sketchier and more dangerous. I do not foresee any other way, unfortunately. And yes, some analogs, like newer steroids, fentanyl analogs, the *-meo-pcp's, and all the stims and mephedrone analogs HAVE and DO cause problems. But things like 4-ho-xxx/4-aco-xxx and the unscheduled 2c's have not caused one death, and they are relatively unknown. I hope it can remain that way so that we dont have people thinking "OMG kids can trip out this cheap and avoid the black market!? And they're taking a substance one molecule away from psilocin or mdma? STOP IT AT ONCE! Emergency schedule! Just temporary.."

If this stuff even makes the news once it will change things =(. I was sad to see a story about 2ci. What happened to that guy was fucked up, and my friend got lucky.

EDIT: Sorry, this is kinda off-topic, but I was really wondering, is there really a global mephedrone ban in the works? I've read about it somewhere but can't find anything to verify or disprove it... Anyway, this is fused with personal experience, what I've seen myself, and this builds my views on this particular matter, I dont mean to delve too deep in my own experiences, since this is something that concerns all of us. The article itself is good, and I'm glad they didnt take the all-too-common negative spin (because I have yet to read anything good about any kind of research chemical).