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Thread: Methadone pill vs Liquid methadone

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    Methadone pill vs Liquid methadone 
    #1
    Is their a difference between liquid methadone and the pill form in terms of the effect? I am taking a regiment of 70 mg of the liquid, and I just got a hold of some 10 mg methadone pills. I'm assuming they show up the same on a lab test. I'm on probation and can only take methadone. I'm trying to stay off of true opiates such as heroin and morphine, but the cravings are still pretty bad, and I'm 34 days clean of everything except methadone. My probation office uses a lab machine to test so if they do show up any different I'd like to know. they can even test your level of the drug. I appreciate any advice, thanks.
     

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    #2
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    there is no difference, methadone is methadone
     

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    #3
    well the reason I asked is I know for a fact that when you inject morphine or dilaudid the high is completely different than when you eat it. I figured different forms could mean different effects. same as liquid vicodin rather than the pill, the feeling is not the same.
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter brimz's Avatar
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    methadone pills are called Physeptone in the uk and quite hard to get
    IMHO they come on a bit quicker than the juice but no other diferencs
     

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    #5
    I believe it's the other way 'round, at least for me: liquid methadone kicks in faster than pills/caps. Otherwise, as said before, methadone is methadone.
     

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    #6
    I know everone says methadone is methadone. But Im just gonna tell you my personal opinion on the subject. I take 150 mg a day. Ive been on the clinic for 5 years this last time ive been on a clinic. I was taking the liguid for a while but when I got switched to monthly takehomes I switched to the 40mg white biscuits. While I believe that the liquid kicks in a little faster. I think that the biscuits Im taking now last a little longer. And to a noticeable effect in the begining of my switching. So Ill take my dose in the morning and the next morning when I would normally really want to dose, I would be perfectly fine to wait longer. But That is just my personal feelings on it.
     

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    WHY Methadone Liquid is DIFFERENT than Pill Methadone 
    #7
    Greenlighter
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    Methadone hydrochloride in liquid form used for methadone maintenance patients compared to methadone tablets used to treat pain management patients is in fact completely different. To clarify the difference, a vast amount of research has been done by examining the various patents of methadone hydrochloride, contacting the United States FDA, DEA, as well as various manufacturers of methadone hydrochloride in its various forms. Methadone HLC was originally synthesized by the Germans during World War II due to the lack of availability of opioid pain medications for those that required control of moderate to severe pain when morphine and other opioid analgesics where not available.

    Methadone HLC is composed of two methadone isomers: d-methadone, and l-methadone. The final products in the USA contain both d-methadone, and l-methadone isomers leaving the final methadone products with various ratios of dl-methadone. Currently there are multiple different United States patents for making methadone HLC, at least six, as listed in the references below. It is currently completely baffling to the author as to why an FDA approved medication can be made with substantial varying effects and resulting in completely different molecular structures, yet named the same.

    The amount of analgesia in any particular form of methadone is due to the ratio of DL-methadone dynamic factors. There seems to be increased potency presumably because of the NMDA receptor antagonism of the d-isomer. This is why the calculated equianalgesic dose of Methadone to Morphine can range from nearly 1:1 to as much as 12:1 in the USA. In other countries that use formulations of DL-methadone with nearly none of the D-Isomer included the equianalgesic ratio can be as high as 40+:1. Hypothetically with an empirically clean L-methadone mixture, eliminating the d-isomer and its NMDA receptor antagonism effects, the analgesia of Methadone to Morphine can be nearly 50:1 ratio.

    Methadone has an asymmetric carbon atom resulting in 2 enantiomeric forms, (its purity) due to the D and L isomers. It is the racemic mixture of DL-methadone that is the form commonly used clinically in MMT settings. The D-Isomer of methadone also contains N-methyl-D-aspartate, the NMDA receptor antagonist activity; as such, this is the preferred substance to be dispensed in a clinical atmosphere to prevent opiate withdrawal as well as making it difficult for a person using the racemic mixture to feel the effects of any supplemental usage of opioid substances. This mixture of methadone is 90% D-methadone to 10% L-methadone and does not vary from various manufacturers.

    L-methadone, with 50 times the analgesia potency of D-methadone, is used for somatic pain management. L-methadone is responsible for respiratory depression, QT interval prolongation as well as physical and psychological dependence. The United States does not allow for a patent that is 100% pure L-methadone, but limits the ratio of DL-methadone to a ratio of 60% L-methadone and 40% D-methadone with no NMDA receptor antagonism effects. As one can surmise from this combination of DL-methadone, it is the preferred method of delivery for those patients needing analgesia for moderate to severe discomfort. This is the Methadone HLC tablets dispensed by a pharmacy for pain, however even the non racemic forms of the pills seem to abide by their ‘patent of choice’, hence the Roxanne pills seem to be manufactured different than the Mallinckrodt version of their Methadose pill. After speaking directly with both mentioned manufactures as well as others, the claim that by use of the “Abbreviated New Drug Application”(**), that it matters not what is used to make the various forms of Methadone, they all meet the FDA requirement that the end product is allowed to be dispensed as Methadone for USA consumption. The author has a huge problem with this explanation; hence my continued effort to clarify the differences to clinicians in MMT and Pain management arenas.

    It is the author’s intent to present this information clarifying the misunderstanding and belief that all methadone is the same.
    (**): Link is included in the below references.

    http://www.google.com/patents/US6897242

    http://www.google.com/patents/US6008258

    http://www.google.com/patents/US20100010096

    http://www.google.com/patents/US3843696

    http://www.google.im/patents/US5587381

    http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/Development...nANDAGenerics/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9742275

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone

    http://www.drugcite.com/label/...
    Last edited by MoreOnMethadone; 07-04-2013 at 23:24.
     

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    #8
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    Also: There are three distinctively different forms of Methadone, all of which will identify as ‘methadone’ in urine drug screens:
    1) L-methadone
    2) DL-methadone
    3) D-methadone.

    The amount of analgesia in any particular form of methadone is due to the ratio of DL-methadone dynamic factors (increased potency presumably because of the NMDA receptor antagonism) of the d-isomer. This is why the calculated equianalgesic dose of Methadone to Morphine can range from nearly 1:1 to as much as 12:1 in the United States.

    L-methadone is 50 times more potent than D-methadone, and is used for pain management.
    DL-Methadone is generally used for both; however it is the RATIO THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE. The L-methadone is responsible for QT interval prolongation, respiratory depression as well as physical and psychological dependence.

    From the first patent listed on the above post: http://www.google.com/patents/US6897242
    "Compositions of non-racemic (Pills*) mixtures of d- and l-methadone and a method of treating pain using the composition. The composition is especially useful for treating pain of mixed origin. For predominantly neuropathic pain, a mixture of predominantly d-methadone, up to about 90%, is used. For predominantly somatic pain, a mixture of predominantly l-methadone, up to about 90%, is used (**IE: Mallinckrodt Pills*). The non-racemic mixture of dl-methadone may be further combined with a pharmacologically effective amount of a nonopioid component. In another aspect of the invention, the methadone can be combined with an opioid antagonist such as naloxone, naltrexone, or the like." (**/* comment added by poster).

    To view the various chemical structures of Methadone and how much they vary simply go to Google “Images” and type in “methadone molecular structure”. Below is the link of my last view of those pages in April 2013:
    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...mg.V5zNqu06F3A

    If all methadone was in fact the same, then there would be ONE, and only ONE molecular structure or ‘chemical footprint’. This is absolutely not the case with ‘Methadone’.
     

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    #9
    Bluelighter laCster's Avatar
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    ^this

    i relate the differences in methadone to amphetamine; their is so many different variations of amphetamine in the US it is ridicoulous: adderall, dexedrine, vyvanse, dexedrine XR, dexedrine in pill form, dexedrine in capsule form, adderall XR, ect.. all have different patents. the IR addy patent is different than the XR patent, and adderall (racemic amp) has a different patent from dexedrine (d-amp)...
     

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    #10
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    YES, Despite all the "methadone is methadone" talk, the liquid concentrate works a whole lot better for me than the pills ever did. The oral concentrate hits quick and peaks at a good quick rate, in other words, it effectively kills the pain, keeps it sufficiently controlled long enough for the pain to decline in intensity. The pills seemed more suited for someone who would prefer to "pop pills" all day. Again I been on the concentrate, I been on the pills, and I been on both at the same time, legaly of course. But I do know to sufficiently be out of pain throughout the day I would need nearly twice the dose of methadone pills compaired to an oral concentrate. And yes it is perscribed for pain, I had a pain management doctor who worked with the doc @ the methadone clinic to help me out, hence the Methadose twice daily with 10mg Malinckrodt anytime as needed for breakthru pain
     

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    #11
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    Hi Schizo5150 and welcome to Bluelight

    We don't revive old threads, mainly because the users in this thread (including the OP) may or may not be active. It also clutters the front page with threads that are possibly obsolete.

    Closed. Please PM me if you have any questions.
     

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