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    black tar types (why is this so potent) 
    #1
    Needle
    So, I always thought the black tar that I got was fairly potent. I have heard that the more acidic it smells/tastes the stronger it is, but I have never found any real truth to that. I once was sold a eight ball of extrememly potent tar for half the price cause my friend thought it wasnt as strong cause it didnt smell like vinegar.

    So in my area, we have 2 types. There are varients of the cheeper type which range 5, and 10 dollars in price difference per gram. But this type is usually very acidic and smells of vinegar, it is also harsher to smoke which is my roa.

    Many people bang this cheeper type and have no problems with it, many have to shoot around .4 to get a slight nod tho. I have to smoke half a gram to get even close to nodding.

    The second type which has a specific name which I will leave out since it is not relevent, is extrememly potent. It is not very acidic, does not smell like vinegar and is less harsh. It is 4-5 times more expensive than the other type, and is about 3-4 times stronger. It sometimes looks like pressed brown powder, but it turns to tar with a little heat (putting it in you're pocket).

    Addicts shoot .1-.15 and I have heard many storys of regular users shooting .2 and then they OD. I dont shoot, and it only takes me about .2 to catch a good buzz when smoking it. If I smoke a littlemore .3 max I will nod hard.

    So what is the difference in the manufacturing techniques that might be used for these. Cause everyone use to say the more sour the more acidic the more likely it is strong. Is it possible this is fent tar?
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    #2
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    the different cuts could be anything, and I'm not really at liberty to decide because I don't obviously have access to the dope you are speaking of.

    I do notice that the more vinegary the smell, usually the better the product is. however, as I'm sure you know this is not always the case. I wish I could be of more help...
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by axl blaze View Post
    the different cuts could be anything, and I'm not really at liberty to decide because I don't obviously have access to the dope you are speaking of.

    I do notice that the more vinegary the smell, usually the better the product is. however, as I'm sure you know this is not always the case. I wish I could be of more help...
    Yeah, I know its hard to be of more help on the internet. But since I had always heard the more vinegary the stronger the product, and this product is not acidic at all that if it is more likely fent tar or just a way different manufacturing method. For the price, and how strong it seems to be when shot its ont he level of china white. So since it isnt china white, I thought perhaps it was cut with fent. Isnt .1 to get high and .2 close to OD for tollerant people seem very strong?
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    #4
    First of all I would highly doubt that fentanyl is involved with any of the dope you are talking about here. For some reason lately, everyone who gets dope that seems different, or more potent than what they are use to, the automatically assume fentanyl is involved(or might be involved)......more than likely because they have heard about fentanyl laced heroin.....when in fact, fentanyl laced heroin is EXTREMELY rare in comparison to all the "regular" heroin there is out there, and no one probably would have ever even heard of fentanyl laced heroin if it hadnt caused as many overdoses as it did. That is the sole reason it has gotten as much publicity as it has.....not because its all over the place, but mainly because the VERY FEW places it did pop up, it caused many OD's, for obvious reasons.

    Anyway, I know for a fact that the more "vinegary" heroin isnt necessarily the more potent heroin. It just has to do with the process they used when converting the raw opium to morphine, and then the morphine to diacetylmorphine. BUT, in all my many years as a heroin addict, I have noticed that the more vinegary the heroin is, the more potent it is....BY FAR......but that is just my experience. And I almost always dealt with black tar heroin straight from mexico. I literally would go across the border and buy up to a half pound of pure, raw, black, sticky, heroin....and it smelled SOOOOOOOO vinegary I cant even describe it to you. It would make you gag it was so strong. But one thing I always noticed was, the more vinegar I smelled, the more potent the heroin was. And this shit was FUCKING AMAZING. I mean, if you took like 0.01 of that tar, and injected it, you would nod off within a couple minutes after having the most intense euphoria of your life. It beat having sex ten times over. And that was WITH a big opiate tolerance.
    I would take the tar home and mix it with lactose in a coffee grinder to make brown powder that was still extremely potent even though I used a ratio of 1 part tar to 2-4 parts lactose.
    Anyway, this brown powder i made would "convert" itself back into a darker, stickier form if it was exposed to too much heat or pressure, like you described. So that makes me think you were getting black tar heroin that was just mixed with lactose. And in my opinion, black tar heroin is the most potent heroin there is. But to be honest, I was getting this tar from a BIG supplier who probably knew the source of the heroin and imported it to meixco(or atleast imported the raw opium which was then turned into heroin in mexico)

    Sry for the long post, im not even sure if this helped you at all. Ask any questions that I didnt cover if you like.
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    #5
    Bluelighter DavisK4high247's Avatar
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    Black tar heroin is made in Mexico from poppys grown in Mexico.Never heard of anyone who would risk smuggling bulky amounts of opium to Mexico from another country and then convert it into tar heroin.Especially since there has been poppys grown in Mexico for decades,since the 1940's at least and heroin has been produced there since then also.Heroin from Mexico was always brown powder and not tar or tar like in any way until sometime in the 1980's and especailly by the late 80's and early 90's Mexico was producing almost all tar and very little brown powder.Mexico is the only country in the world that produces tar heroin,as other countries use the traditional methods and produce powder heroin.Smuggling Opium in bulk from another poppy producing country would be very dangerous as it takes 10kg of opium to produce 1kg of heroin.Opium is much more bulky by weight compared to heroin.A kg of opium is the size of 3 or 4 kg of compressed powder heroin or more.Sinaloa,Michocan,Guerrero,and other mexican states have been producing poppys and heroin as I said for 60 or 70+ years..In my opinion tar heroin is far from the most potent there is.I have done high purity SEA #4 in a south east asian nation a number of years ago and it was the best high I ever had.Even snorting a very small line of the SEA heroin would get you really high.But you are entititeld to your opinion that black tar is the best heroin,everyone is entiteled to there opinion,but I personally must disagree most strongly as I am sure many people would that have had high purity heroin ,and especially those who have had high grade powder and even "Strong" tar heroin both mostly would prefer the high and purer powder heroin.You have been fortunate to be able to do high powered tar like you say.That shit neve rhits the street like that most tar users will tell you.Me I prefer the fire powder I get here and although tar is avalabile here as well as powder,most people who hav ethe choice buy the powder and stick with it.
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    #6
    Bluelighter punchednthenose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilwill View Post
    yo anyone on here from the the San Diego area, just moved out from NY don't know anyone, can't needles or dope anywhere...scored some oxys but i don't wanna pay for oxy's anyone can help me would be appreciated!!
    Hey man, just as a general rule when posting in these forums. Please don't ask for sources as you will most likely receive an infraction. Right now you will probably get a warning from the moderators. be careful and read the rules before posting again.
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    #7
    Bluelighter ATLien88's Avatar
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    Tar heroin isn't going to be the most potent, because it is less refined than #4 powder heroin. The high is different than powder without a doubt, probably because there are a bunch of other opiate-alkaloids left in it - because it isn't as refined. Powder heroin is going to be as close to pure as you're going to get. This is assuming that we're comparing the best tar to the best powder, of course. I've had shitty bags of powder and great bags of tar before, so it all depends on where you're scoring it from and how much it has been stepped on. As far as the vinegar smell in heroin goes, I believe that is caused by the heroin not being completely cleaned during the manufacturing process. The vinegar smell technically has no relation to potency, although I have gotten some bomb bags that smell like straight-up vinegar before. Hope this helps.
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    #8
    This has come up a few times in the California region recently. It is apparently moisture and heat that turns it from the powdery material into the tar, and all the reports of it have it being pretty potent. There was a pretty in depth thread about this a few months back, I may try to find it...
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesBrown View Post
    First of all I would highly doubt that fentanyl is involved with any of the dope you are talking about here. For some reason lately, everyone who gets dope that seems different, or more potent than what they are use to, the automatically assume fentanyl is involved(or might be involved)......more than likely because they have heard about fentanyl laced heroin.....when in fact, fentanyl laced heroin is EXTREMELY rare in comparison to all the "regular" heroin there is out there, and no one probably would have ever even heard of fentanyl laced heroin if it hadnt caused as many overdoses as it did. That is the sole reason it has gotten as much publicity as it has.....not because its all over the place, but mainly because the VERY FEW places it did pop up, it caused many OD's, for obvious reasons.

    Anyway, I know for a fact that the more "vinegary" heroin isnt necessarily the more potent heroin. It just has to do with the process they used when converting the raw opium to morphine, and then the morphine to diacetylmorphine. BUT, in all my many years as a heroin addict, I have noticed that the more vinegary the heroin is, the more potent it is....BY FAR......but that is just my experience. And I almost always dealt with black tar heroin straight from mexico. I literally would go across the border and buy up to a half pound of pure, raw, black, sticky, heroin....and it smelled SOOOOOOOO vinegary I cant even describe it to you. It would make you gag it was so strong. But one thing I always noticed was, the more vinegar I smelled, the more potent the heroin was. And this shit was FUCKING AMAZING. I mean, if you took like 0.01 of that tar, and injected it, you would nod off within a couple minutes after having the most intense euphoria of your life. It beat having sex ten times over. And that was WITH a big opiate tolerance.
    I would take the tar home and mix it with lactose in a coffee grinder to make brown powder that was still extremely potent even though I used a ratio of 1 part tar to 2-4 parts lactose.
    Anyway, this brown powder i made would "convert" itself back into a darker, stickier form if it was exposed to too much heat or pressure, like you described. So that makes me think you were getting black tar heroin that was just mixed with lactose. And in my opinion, black tar heroin is the most potent heroin there is. But to be honest, I was getting this tar from a BIG supplier who probably knew the source of the heroin and imported it to meixco(or atleast imported the raw opium which was then turned into heroin in mexico)

    Sry for the long post, im not even sure if this helped you at all. Ask any questions that I didnt cover if you like.
    Jamesbrown, not that I doubt you; but tar THAT potent (0.01 getting a regular user high as hell nodding out) does npt exist. Even if the tar you were getting was 100% pure, which is impossible, you are saying that 10mg of heroin Gets you super high and then makes you nod out while you have a tollerance.

    Erowid:

    Intravenous Heroin Dosages
    w/ NO tolerance w/ HEAVY tolerance
    Common 5 - 10 mg 20 - 40 mg
    Strong 8 - 15 mg 40 - 60 mg

    So either you; had NO tollerance at all, (which I doubt) you were weighing it wrong, or you arejust completely mistaken. Not to call you out, but it did just kinda sound like you were dick sizing a bit.

    It is possible that this tar I was getting (THE STRONGER) was originally powder that heat or pressure turned into tar. Or that it is just a very potent tar form. It is much more brown in color when it is fresh, and can even be slightly crumbly and with powder, but then after having it in you're pocket or droor for a while, it turns to a black gooey tar.
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    #10
    This type of tar does exist. It's been floating around So Cal for a little while now. It hit my area and caused a shit ton of OD's on people that deffinatly had a high tolerance to heroin(about 2-2.5 gram a day habbitt IV of decent potencey tar for 2+ years). I deffinatly am not doubting that tar of that quality exists because this heroin he's talking about sounds exactly the same of the stuff floating around my area, the chances of finding it unless you know the person bringing it across the border is rare, because once it hits a few people they cut it to shit with lactose.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tablehead View Post
    Jamesbrown, not that I doubt you; but tar THAT potent (0.01 getting a regular user high as hell nodding out) does npt exist. Even if the tar you were getting was 100% pure, which is impossible, you are saying that 10mg of heroin Gets you super high and then makes you nod out while you have a tollerance.

    Erowid:

    Intravenous Heroin Dosages
    w/ NO tolerance w/ HEAVY tolerance
    Common 5 - 10 mg 20 - 40 mg
    Strong 8 - 15 mg 40 - 60 mg

    So either you; had NO tollerance at all, (which I doubt) you were weighing it wrong, or you arejust completely mistaken. Not to call you out, but it did just kinda sound like you were dick sizing a bit.

    It is possible that this tar I was getting (THE STRONGER) was originally powder that heat or pressure turned into tar. Or that it is just a very potent tar form. It is much more brown in color when it is fresh, and can even be slightly crumbly and with powder, but then after having it in you're pocket or droor for a while, it turns to a black gooey tar.
    Im sry if you dont think it exists but it definitely does. Its not that important to me that people believe me or not though. I dont mind that you doubt it.

    also....the tar you are talking about, has to start out as tar, to turn back in to tar. so it sounds to me like you definitely had tar heroin that was simply cut with lactose(or maybe soemthing else but more than likely lactose) to make it powder. And yes, tar cut with lactose can be crumbly and have every other property of a powder. I know this from lots of experience working with tar heroin.

    Allthough, since I cant see or feel the heroin you are talking about, I cant say for sure what it is. Im just saying it sounds like the same exact heroin i use to buy and cut and sell for many years.
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    #12
    Bluelighter
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    I've noticed in my area we have three kinda of tar, four if you want to get specific.

    Here they are (from best to worst):

    1. Powdery light brown tar (draws up yellow in a rig)
    2. Hard obsidian looking tar (draws up light amber)
    3. Super sticky shit (draws up brown)
    4. Slightly sticky (draws up nasty "can't see through the barrel" brown)

    Number 1 barely has any real smell to it, it has a vinegar smell but it isn't that strong. Number 2 smells VERY strongly of vinegar, as soon as you open the wrapper. Number 3 has a slight vinegar smell, somewhat strong. Number 4 doesn't have that strong of a smell either, almost like Number 1.

    I don't know what the cuts are in ANY of these brands of tar, I usually have an idea of what I'm getting quality-wise, but I know positively when I draw it up in the rig. Number 2-4 kinda look similar to a point. It's always nice to draw up the yellowish shit cause it's pretty clear and the rush is slow and heavy and lasts a long time. All four varieties cost the same amount of money, it just depends on what the dealer has at the moment. Since he's gotten a decent hook (for bulk) I've been seeing mostly 1 & 2 at the moment.

    Obviously since it's tar it all starts to look the same once it hits your pocket, but you get the idea.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by microtel View Post
    you messin' with everyone aren't you? "better than sex 10 times over" yeah right, go watch Trainspotting for more cliches
    nope not messin. it literally was that good. there was a long time where I would spend my days nodded out in front of a tv, or on the bathroom floor, or even in resteraunt parking lots, for hours and hours.
    <edit- removed unnecessary crime details... -Pega>
    It was after that that I realized I had a serious problem because I now had to spend small amounts of money on local dealers, which was much more expensive, and poorer quality......and I didnt always have money, or dope like i use to so I started getting sick for the first times. It was then my career as a filthy junky started, and I evenually started to steal and commit check fraud, etc, etc,....

    But I can guarantee you I was not making that shit up. If you choose to not believe me then thats your deal and thats fine but dont waste our time by complaining about it. Bitching about somethign you dont believe is pointless. Just enjoy your life and keep your mouth shut if thats all you have to add to our forums.
    Last edited by Pegasus; 06-10-2010 at 23:50.
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    #14
    are there more potent forms of opioid (not opiates, i mean from OPIUM) that could be being manufactured somewhat easily that would provide a .01gram dose to be sufficient for a high? Because it really doesn't make sense to me that users would be getting a strong high from 10 milligrams of heroin

    and for what its worth, the stuff that smelled strongest of vinegar that i've ever seen, you had to use about .2-.6 grams to get off sick, and there was basically no way to get high off it, save for swallowing an eightball (that worked lol)
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FattyAcid View Post
    are there more potent forms of opioid (not opiates, i mean from OPIUM) that could be being manufactured somewhat easily that would provide a .01gram dose to be sufficient for a high? Because it really doesn't make sense to me that users would be getting a strong high from 10 milligrams of heroin
    and for what its worth, the stuff that smelled strongest of vinegar that i've ever seen, you had to use about .2-.6 grams to get off sick, and there was basically no way to get high off it, save for swallowing an eightball (that worked lol)
    yea, where most people live, the quality of heroin isnt potent enough so that 10mg's of it would make you nod, but if you know the right people it is possible. but for 98% of the heroin using population, your gonna have to use more than 10mg's to get high.
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    #16
    But look at my quote from erowid. The doses are based on pure heroin, not "you're average strength tar".

    Like I quoted, 10mg is a low dose for a non tollerant user, so it just doesnt make sense, that .01 could get a tollerant user to nod out. Like how would you even cook .01? Like one drop of water?? lol 10 mg of morphine is 10mg morphine 10mg heroin is 10mg heroin. Maybe it had stronger alkaloids in it, that made it so potent for its weight.
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tablehead View Post
    But look at my quote from erowid. The doses are based on pure heroin, not "you're average strength tar".

    Like I quoted, 10mg is a low dose for a non tollerant user, so it just doesnt make sense, that .01 could get a tollerant user to nod out. Like how would you even cook .01? Like one drop of water?? lol 10 mg of morphine is 10mg morphine 10mg heroin is 10mg heroin. Maybe it had stronger alkaloids in it, that made it so potent for its weight.
    maybe
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    #18
    There are a number of reasons why street drugs can vary so much. There are a lot of anecdotal reports of Heroin and Methamphetamine users who prefer street drugs to pharmaceutical versions of the same drug. On the one hand are the number of active cuts and chemical side-reactions, on the other is the potency (amount of active opioid per gram of material sold as Heroin).

    Black tar heroin is made in Mexico from poppys grown in Mexico.Never heard of anyone who would risk smuggling bulky amounts of opium to Mexico from another country and then convert it into tar heroin.Especially since there has been poppys grown in Mexico for decades,since the 1940's at least and heroin has been produced there since then also.Heroin from Mexico was always brown powder and not tar or tar like in any way until sometime in the 1980's and especailly by the late 80's and early 90's Mexico was producing almost all tar and very little brown powder.Mexico is the only country in the world that produces tar heroin,as other countries use the traditional methods and produce powder heroin.Smuggling Opium in bulk from another poppy producing country would be very dangerous as it takes 10kg of opium to produce 1kg of heroin.Opium is much more bulky by weight compared to heroin.A kg of opium is the size of 3 or 4 kg of compressed powder heroin or more.Sinaloa,Michocan,Guerrero,and other mexican states have been producing poppys and heroin as I said for 60 or 70+ years..In my opinion tar heroin is far from the most potent there is.I have done high purity SEA #4 in a south east asian nation a number of years ago and it was the best high I ever had.Even snorting a very small line of the SEA heroin would get you really high.But you are entititeld to your opinion that black tar is the best heroin,everyone is entiteled to there opinion,but I personally must disagree most strongly as I am sure many people would that have had high purity heroin ,and especially those who have had high grade powder and even "Strong" tar heroin both mostly would prefer the high and purer powder heroin.You have been fortunate to be able to do high powered tar like you say.That shit neve rhits the street like that most tar users will tell you.Me I prefer the fire powder I get here and although tar is avalabile here as well as powder,most people who hav ethe choice buy the powder and stick with it.
    Nailed it. Though I'd still maintain that individual preference can be related to factors that seemingly have nothing to do with Heroin (the presence of certain active cuts, the presence of certain side-reaction chemicals, the amount of unconverted Morphine, etc).
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    #19
    Bluelighter
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    Like I quoted, 10mg is a low dose for a non tollerant user, so it just doesnt make sense, that .01 could get a tollerant user to nod out.
    Just for the record - .01 is NOT 10mgs... .01 is one hundredth (1/100). And .10 is only one tenTH (1/10). 10mgs = 10.0.

    Theoretically, one bundle (10 bags) weighs out to a gram. Since one gram equals 1,000mgs, one bag should weigh 100mgs (1,000mgs/10 bags). One hundredth of one mg (.01mg) would be the size of a grain of salt.

    If .01mg is enough to get you high, you could get fucked up 10,000 times from one bag of dope... I'd like to get my hands on a few bundles of this shit!!!
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    #20
    ^ 10mg = 0.01g ... Just for the record. One-tenth of one gram is 100mg, not 10mg. That seems to be where you are mixed up.
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