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Opioids Experiment Thead - New Formulation Oxycodone Extraction

^^ Your best bet with getting "true chemists" would be members that post mostly in ADD.
If anyone in the thread is friends with such a member perhaps they could get there input & the input of other ADD posters.
I could be wrong but some of the posters I consider most knowledgeable in that area tend to post only in that forum.
Hopefully we can get some of there "enlightened" input. :)
 
I've been reading about the gelling agent in the OP's for a couple hours now, and i've concluded that acetone is not the best option, but i'm also not sure how available the best options are. But the biggest problem is it is very questionable how safe it would be to ingest the final product no matter how much the solvent seems to have evaporated and what not. Not to mention working with any solvent involves safety risks, which makes me wonder if trying to extract the oxycodone with a solvent is even worth all these risks. Regardless, here's what i've found, I'm not recommending anyone try these things, this is for information purposes only.

First off, PEG (polyethylene glycol) is the ingredient in the OP's that causes the gelling. This has been mentioned before in other threads but i think its key to understand what it is you're trying to defeat. Polyethylene oxide is also somehow involved, but i haven't been able to determine how, but it seems they act very similarly. PEO doesn't really matter for this but i figured it was worth mentioning.

Solubility of systems involving four different molecular weights of poly(ethylene glycol) (PEG) in tetrahydrofuran (THF), chloroform, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), methanol and water have been investigated by different algorithmic approaches as the mathematical application of the “like dissolves like” principle. In this study, the solubility parameters and their components for PEG and solvents have been evaluated by using of atomic group contribution methods; Small, van Krevelen–Hoftyzer (VKH), Hoy and Breitkreutz methods, respectively. Then their 2-dimensional graphs (Bagley, Henry and Hoernschemeyer diagrams) and 3-dimensional graph (Hansen diagram) have been drawn by creating the solubility profiles of the polymer in selected solvents. The dissolving capability of these solvents has been discussed. In addition the solubility parameters have been calculated by use of the van der Waals volume in the selected molecule or repeating unit of the polymer instead of the molar volume which is used in atomic group contribution methods (Askadskii approach). Surface tensions of the polymer and solvent systems have been calculated with this method and solubility criteria of PEG have been explained after a serial calculation steps. In addition, influence of molecular weight of PEG on solubility has been also analyzed. As a consequence of algorithmic calculations, THF has been determined as the best solvent whereas water is found to be the weakest solvent for polymer/solvent systems.
Click to expand...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TWW-4N4J32M-3&_user=10&_coverDate=07/31/2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=bcf9aada7970245bbcb329752e61aee0&searchtype=a

I recommend reading about THF to get an idea of what it is and the safety concerns involved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrofuran

This is another link with some good info on PEG and discusses a wide range of solvents that work on it, though it doesn't give any specific examples so it would have to be looked into more.
http://www.chemicalland21.com/industrialchem/organic/POLYETHYLENE%20GLYCOL.htm

This link mentions it is soluble in acetone, but as mentioned above it doesn't seem to be the best option.
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/materials-science/material-science-products.html?TablePage=20204110

I started my search by looking for alternative solvents and found toluene which led me to find out what the gelling ingredient was to see if toluene would work on it, and as it said in the link above this it would work. So here's some info on toluene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene

So there's a few examples of alternatives. If anyone is interested in learning more about PEO's use in drugs there's all kinds of info in this link about it. It mentions applications involving IV ROA's. I didn't read through the whole thing just basically skimmed it but people who are wondering about the OP's and IVing may find some useful info in here so it seems worth adding.
http://pharmtech.findpharma.com/pharmtech/data/articlestandard//pharmtech/362005/178636/article.pdf

There's lots of info out there and if you just start searching it'll branch off in all directions but i feel like these links may be helpful, or at least a start in the right direction. Solvents from binding agents for PVC all the way to some detergents are mentioned as possible ways to dissolve PEG/PEO. The question is which are the safest and most effective if you plan on consuming the final product. Also what effects will the different possibilities have on the oxycodone? Things to consider. I had the idea of using goo-gone because its relatively safe and there are several varieties of it and one may work, but again the problem is if any residue left would be safe.

Alright sorry for the long post, but there's been all kinds of crazy things suggested but hopefully these links will be able to bring about some educated solutions to this "problem" haha.
 
Im sorry to hear you had a bad time.. maybe the coffee filter was a bad idea and filtered out the oxycodone??? or maybe it got stuck there? IF the oven was too hot it could have destroyed the oxycodone as well.

I didn't have any sick feeling whatsoever and was pretty sure I got all the acetone out with the hair dryer... The OP80 I experimented with DEFINATELY hit me a lot harder than the ones I mixed with coke etc in the past.

Was the water you drank bitter? That would be a good sign that the oxycodone dissolved in the water. I am not sure if you followed the directions properly or did everything right...

Maybe 5 hours was too long and it killed the alkaloids? I dont know?



catbird said:
IMPORTANT!!! PLEASE READ: guys - listen up. i did the following: finely ground 3op80s, soaked in acetone for five hours. after that i filtered the solution through a coffee filter. to the original mixture i added more acetone and repeated, waiting only 1 hour this time, but filtering into the first bowl. then i let both the filtered solution and the crusty pill solution evaporate in a warm (but turned off) oven four an hour. at this point there was no smell of acetone. i noticed there was a light powder left in the filtered solution. in a perfect experiment, this would contain 240 mgs of OC. well, i know what a quarter gram of powder looks like. this was not it. scraped together, it was about the size of a matchhead. anyway, i added water to this and drank.

got nothing, no buzz whatsoever.

so i looked over at the original solution, now just a bunch of powder that looked just llike it did when i first ground it. now, there was no smell of acetone in this, so i went a head and mixed it with half a coke. i noticed at this point it was slimey, just like always and as if nothing changed. i shrugged and drank it down. now here is the important part: about a minute later i got extremely dizzy and sick feeling. i barely made it to the bathroom. i did not puke but the feeling lasted a good three minutes before subsiding. i don't have to tell you i was scared shitless and thought i might have to go to the hospital, thought i was going to get brain damage. the feeling is hard to explain but was extremely unpleasant. guys - please be carefull when you do this shit.
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IndustrialStrength said:
^^ Your best bet with getting "true chemists" would be members that post mostly in ADD.
If anyone in the thread is friends with such a member perhaps they could get there input & the input of other ADD posters.
I could be wrong but some of the posters I consider most knowledgeable in that area tend to post only in that forum.
Hopefully we can get some of there "enlightened" input. :)
Click to expand...




^ true, they do tend to stay in ADD as I tend to stay in OD.. i have no reason to go anywhere else, this is where i fit in and i'm sure that they feel the same about their forum. if you want an advanced answer go to Advanced Drug Discussion.
 
following Jaystyle's instructions here are my results:
-dissolved 40mg (1/2 of an 80) for ~1hr in pure acetone. in hindsight i think i may have used slightly too much acetone as it took awhile to evaporate.
-after seperating the oxy/acetone solution from the white debris and letting both sit for awhile and evaporate, i tasted both samples and found the remaining debris to have very little bitterness to it. i am very confident this debris contained mainly fillers, including the time release agents, and had very little drug left in it.
-the residue on the sides of my containers was the opposite. it was very bitter and reminded me of how the original formula tasted....yummy! the residue coating the bowl that i dissolved the pill in appeared to be slightly stronger than the residue in the bowl i poured my oxy/ace solution in to.
-i scraped out the white debris and spread it out on a plate for further drying. i later tried to snort this debris but i didn't feel a thing from it. next time i may attempt a 2nd extraction. the fda website with Purdue's testing even mentioned multiple extraction attempts.
-i attempted to scrap off the residue from both bowls and create a powder to snort. unfortunatetly the residue that remained formed such a thin film in the glass bowls i used that i couldn't scrap it off. instead i boiled some water and let it cool. after a few mins of cooling i poured it into the bowls, mixed it around and let the water soak up all the residue off the sides and then drank it.
-after 5mins i started to feel a slightly high. 15mins later i am sitting here typing the rest of my test results and and i am starting to nod off. granted it was only 40mg and i do have a decent tolerance, but the effects are much stronger than what i've gotten used to ingesting these op's.
-i think if i do this again i will find more suitable containers. i used 2 glass pyrex bowls with plastic lids. while the bowls worked well they were hard to scrap and the residue was very spread out due to the size of the bowls. i think it would be best to stick with a smaller container, maybe even try ceramic or a material that would make it easier to scrap the residue.
-20 mins after i drank the solution and i'm ripped! no vomiting, no sick feeling, no headaches, just numbness and an inability to keep my eyes open.
-jaystyle i think you are on the right track with this method. we just need to work on being able to maximize the % of oxy we extract and find an efficient way to collect the remaining residue after the evaporation process. i'd love to be able to snort a fat line of this stuff, i guarantee it would be amazing.
 
Hey Boonedog,

I am glad you had a similar experience to mine. I would suggest against snorting that residue... I think the oxycodone is too small and it is not really bound to anything so it might be really hard to make sure it hits a membrane that could absorb it, and not just have it fly around and get lost... 40mg is VERY small--- those old OC40s are like 95% filler dont forget.

That being said, I think the best thing to do is to mix it with water and that way we are sure that the oxycodone dissolves in it for easy absorbtion.

If you want to snort something, use a small amount of water as possible to absorb everything, and then crush some NYTOL sleeping tablets and let them absorb the water. Then, put them somewhere to dry for awhile.

This is what people do with black tar heroin to make it a snortable powder. It should work according to theory...

So--- would you concur that the acetone method provides oxycodone that is far more of an "instant release" than without it?





boonedog said:
following Jaystyle's instructions here are my results:
-dissolved 40mg (1/2 of an 80) for ~1hr in pure acetone. in hindsight i think i may have used slightly too much acetone as it took awhile to evaporate.
-after seperating the oxy/acetone solution from the white debris and letting both sit for awhile and evaporate, i tasted both samples and found the remaining debris to have very little bitterness to it. i am very confident this debris contained mainly fillers, including the time release agents, and had very little drug left in it.
-the residue on the sides of my containers was the opposite. it was very bitter and reminded me of how the original formula tasted....yummy! the residue coating the bowl that i dissolved the pill in appeared to be slightly stronger than the residue in the bowl i poured my oxy/ace solution in to.
-i scraped out the white debris and spread it out on a plate for further drying. i later tried to snort this debris but i didn't feel a thing from it. next time i may attempt a 2nd extraction. the fda website with Purdue's testing even mentioned multiple extraction attempts.
-i attempted to scrap off the residue from both bowls and create a powder to snort. unfortunatetly the residue that remained formed such a thin film in the glass bowls i used that i couldn't scrap it off. instead i boiled some water and let it cool. after a few mins of cooling i poured it into the bowls, mixed it around and let the water soak up all the residue off the sides and then drank it.
-after 5mins i started to feel a slightly high. 15mins later i am sitting here typing the rest of my test results and and i am starting to nod off. granted it was only 40mg and i do have a decent tolerance, but the effects are much stronger than what i've gotten used to ingesting these op's.
-i think if i do this again i will find more suitable containers. i used 2 glass pyrex bowls with plastic lids. while the bowls worked well they were hard to scrap and the residue was very spread out due to the size of the bowls. i think it would be best to stick with a smaller container, maybe even try ceramic or a material that would make it easier to scrap the residue.
-20 mins after i drank the solution and i'm ripped! no vomiting, no sick feeling, no headaches, just numbness and an inability to keep my eyes open.
-jaystyle i think you are on the right track with this method. we just need to work on being able to maximize the % of oxy we extract and find an efficient way to collect the remaining residue after the evaporation process. i'd love to be able to snort a fat line of this stuff, i guarantee it would be amazing.
Click to expand...
 
You guys keep on playing around with MEK, acetone, and other industrial solvents, and then possibly ingest them, and those of us who are smart will just go with the method that I suggested which was supported by a pharmacist and just use the good old fashioned OC 80's with no extra hassle. Keep trying to crack the OP's for no reason when you don't even have to. I'm sure you're having a great amount of fun harming yourself by experimenting with chemicals when none of you have any real chemical knowledge.
 
puffj said:
You guys keep on playing around with MEK, acetone, and other industrial solvents, and then possibly ingest them, and those of us who are smart will just go with the method that I suggested which was supported by a pharmacist and just use the good old fashioned OC 80's with no extra hassle. Keep trying to crack the OP's for no reason when you don't even have to. I'm sure you're having a great amount of fun harming yourself by experimenting with chemicals when none of you have any real chemical knowledge.
Click to expand...

You're not understanding that not everybody has a prescription and can just shop around until they find the ethex, which by the way about half the people say they won't be around much longer either, and some have had good evidence to back it up, and the other half say the opposite. So good for you for being able to get OC's, but a lot of people are stuck with the OP's. Either way, this kind of counter-productive post is why this thread branched off of the original in the first place. :\
 
Lando138 said:
You're not understanding that not everybody has a prescription and can just shop around until they find the ethex, which by the way about half the people say they won't be around much longer either, and some have had good evidence to back it up, and the other half say the opposite. So good for you for being able to get OC's, but a lot of people are stuck with the OP's. Either way, this kind of counter-productive post is why this thread branched off of the original in the first place. :\
Click to expand...

I have yet to see any evidence saying that the Ethex OC's won't be around. All I've seen are people saying, "What if they aren't around", or "my pharmacist said they aren't around". On the other hand, I've posted patent dates and market dates from the FDA showing the opposite.
 
puffj there are lots of chemicals that harm the human body that are ingested every single day. chemicals in the air, our food, the water supply, etc. not to mention this thread is about trying to optimize the use of a narcotic, which itself is dangerous and harmful to the body. if you aren't posting useful information to this thread, start your own or find another one to post your opinions on.

jaystyle i agreed that snorting that residue would be tough if not next to impossible, at least in the quantity i was working with. its been 5 hours since i drank that elixir and i've felt really good since then so i'd have to say that method works well.

there are a couple reasons why i think this method works in destroying the time release better then any i've tried so far: 1) the water i poured in the bowl to dissolve the residue in the bowl wasn't gummy or filled with gel in the least. i tried to dissolve an op in water and then again in coke when i first got them and both times the fluid came out viscous and gummy. 2) the initial rush was amazing but wore off within 20-30mins. i never ingested the old formula, always railed or smoked them, so i can't compare it to them in that sense. but i do know that it was the quickest acting dose i've taken since these new ones came out.

i was curious about letting the oxy/ace solution drying out on a piece of aluminum foil and then smoking it. i know it wastes a lot and isn't absorbed as well but at least it would make accessing the residue easier in small quantities. any idea's on this?
 
Acetone

Boone-- I dont know... I dont think anything should be done with that residue short of mixing it with water first. I really think it needs to dissolve in something first before you smoke / snort it, but feel free to try & report.
Puff-- take your Ethex bullshit elsewhere; this thread is clearly not made for that.

Acetone is by no means harmless, but it has been heavily studied and is not nearly as toxic as many people may think. Here are some excerpts relating to the toxicity of Acetone. The conclusion of the below is that Acetone appears to not be carcinogenic, does not build up in your body, and people who swallowed LARGE amounts of acetone got sick but made a full recovery eventually. The usual negative effective of acetone appears to be irritation of the skin / eyes / lungs if contact is made. If this is done properly, 99.9% of the acetone should be evaporated anyway... I think it is safe and worth looking into--- cocaine, hash, and many other drugs started out in acetone as well.


From: http://www.entheology.org/tips-acetone/acetone.htm
What happens if acetone is accidentally swallowed (enters the digestive system)?

Ingestion is not a typical route of occupational exposure. Several studies report no effects or minor effects (slight drowsiness) in people who ingested up to 20 grams/day for several days. Animal toxicity information also suggests that acetone is not very toxic following ingestion. If acetone is aspirated (breathed into the lungs during ingestion or vomiting) it can cause severe, life-threatening lung injury. Animal information suggests that acetone would be difficult to aspirate because it evaporates so quickly. Based on its physical properties, acetone can be aspirated into the lungs during ingestion or vomiting.

One case report describes a man who intentionally drank 200 mL (about 7 ounces) of acetone. Within one hour, he had flushed cheeks and appeared drunk. His breathing was shallow and his throat red and swollen. He soon lapsed into coma and did not regain consciousness for 12 hours. Four weeks later, he developed symptoms similar to diabetes (increased urination, thirst and blood sugar levels). The patient fully recovered within 5 months after the incident.

Will acetone cause cancer?

There is no human information. Animal information suggests that acetone is not carcinogenic.


Is there potential for acetone to build-up or accumulate in my body?

Acetone is a normal by-product of mammalian metabolism and is found in virtually every organ and tissue, and in the blood. Acetone can enter the body by inhalation, ingestion or skin contact. Acetone is metabolized by a number of routes to compounds, which are used by the body to make glucose and other products of intermediary metabolism, with the generation of carbon dioxide. Acetone is excreted both unchanged, and following metabolism, mainly as carbon dioxide. The main route of excretion is in the expired air, with very little excreted in the urine. Respiratory excretion is complete within 20 hours after inhalation. The amount of unchanged acetone excreted in the urine increases with increasing exposure concentration and duration, and with exercise during exposure.


Long-Term Effects of Acetone

In one study, 110 men were exposed to a mean concentration of 361 ppm acetone for an average of 14.9 years. These men reported more heavy headedness, nausea, faintness, weight loss, eye irritation than a comparison group with no acetone exposure. They also did not perform as well on some neurobehavioural tests (reaction time and digit span tests). A few historical reports have also described long-term exposure effects such as irritation of the airways, throat, stomach and occasionally, dizziness, attacks of giddiness and a loss of strength.
 
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jaystyle said:
Puff-- take your Ethex bullshit elsewhere; this thread is clearly not made for that.
Click to expand...

blah blah blah wah wah wah, this website is in the interest of harm reduction. When there is a easy and harmless way to get oxycodone out of pills (ie purdue ethex's), I don't see how it is in the interest of harm reduction to suggest imbibing acetone and MEK. I know you want to be the first one to be super cool and figure out how to crack the OP's, but honestly, don't advocate methods that will result in people ingesting acetone and MEK. Unless you've proven with 100% certainty that 100% of the MEK and acetone you use is not ingested into the body, I fail to see how this method is in the interest of harm reduction especially in the face of just using the ethex generics...

Honestly I wouldn't really care if you wanted to solve the OP problem, except that you're recommending that everyone try something that will likely result in people ingesting acetone and MEK, which is not smart and not safe. Don't advocate something with such potential to be harmful unless you can first prove that no acetone or MeK will be ingested, or put up the nose, or put in a rig, etc etc.
 
^ agree with above post..
this site is for harm reduction and telling someone to ingest acetone (if there is any left in the ending product) is harm production.. the opposite of what this site is for :\ no disrespect.
 
It is important to a lot of people to figure out how to break the time release, and it is obvious chemical extraction is going to be the solution to this problem. I am not advocating that everyone do this without any knowledge or precautions, but I don't agree that we should be prevented from discussing & contributing knowledge that will lead to us figuring out how to break the OPs time release. Everyone should perform these experiments at their own risk, and take proper precautions to ensure these experiments are done in the safest way possible, but the only way this problem will be solved is with corroboration--- part of this corroboration has been to investigate the health effects of acetone which is obviously important.

I have researched the health effects of acetone, and its ability to evaporate, and everything I have researched leads me to believe acetone is not a very toxic substance, especially when considering the trace amounts that could possibly be left over once it is evaporated (if any at all--- the residue is said to be 5PPM which is equal to .0005% ). I am not a chemist or expert on the matter, but acetone is a common chemical that exists in the human body. It is used to make hashish, cocaine, and a number of other drugs that are ingested all the time by people. It has been heavily studied on animals (and humans who were stupid enough to drink large amounts of it) & it is quickly excreted from the body, non carcinogenic, evaporates easily, and people who have ingested HUGE amounts of it had no long-term complications, so from what I have read so far; microscopic amounts of it will probably not be any worse than the drugs you are doing on top of it... I am not a health expert, of course, but its not like im diving head first in a shallow pond with this one.

ADDITIONAL INFO: "The odor threshold for acetone in water is reported to be 20 parts per million (ppm); the reported odor threshold in air is in the range of 13 to 20 ppm." ---- Since it has been made clear that you shoudl not ingest ANYTHING until there is no smell of acetone whatsoever, we are looking at 12 PPM or less of acetone--- likely 3-5PPM being ingested at the most if someone did not evaporate it all. Studies showing the harmfull effects of acetone have shown limited irritation with concentrations of 150PPM and up--- experiments where ppl were exposed to 1500PPM and up caused dizziness and headaches-- just to put into perspective 3-5PPM of acetone. When it gets on yoru skin, it is instantly absorbed by your body as well... painters and industrial workers often have constant contact with acetone and absorb a lot more 13PPM on a daily basis.

"From the RfD, DES has derived a drinking water guideline of 6,000 ppb. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) enforceable standard (permissible exposure limit or PEL) for acetone in workplace air is 1,000 ppm averaged over eight hours. " --- This is saying we are allowed to have MORE acetone in our drinking water, than what could potentially be left behind as residue from evaporaion (5PPM, or 5000 PPB).

If you find anything to the contrary, we would all be very interested to hear about it.
 
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maybe it would be wise to put a disclaimer on the initial post. however, i do believe it is with best intentions that this technique is being discussed. who knows what methods someone else will try based off of purdue's own research with household & exotic solvents as listed in their fact sheet sent to the fda. that info they released is public and can be misinterpretated with serious consequences. it appears to me that this post is trying to show some responsibility while we search for a safe method of extraction and discuss the possible side effects and the potential risks involved when messing with these chemicals.
 
Yes, this is my first post, but I have been reading all the treads on this board for the last week in regards to the New Oxy OP Formula, and would Like to thank jaystyle for setting this Experiment thread up, as I believe it will require a joint effort by many comprised of: controlled, repeatable and detailed experimentation to resolve the issue that appears to be plaguing us all .

With that said, it should be known that the two (2) ingredients in the New Formula that are at the Crux of our problem are as follows:

Hydroxypropyl methyl cellulose (HPMC)
&
Polyethylene glycol

These are very well known and have been used in MANY time released forms of Medication including Opana.

Here is a link that May help shed some light on what we are up against and where to focus our attention(s) when looking for a Solvent?Reagent to Break Down the Time Release Matrix of the New OP's.

http://www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/matrix-tablets-important-tool-oral-controlled-release-dosage-forms

I have been and will continue to research our task at hand to find the best methodology to address and defeat the Time Release aspect of the New OP's and will update this thread with all of my findings as well as my own Experiment Results as related to this topic.

Keep up the good work everyone!

Here is a Link to a Book that I feel would prove to be invaluable in our quest. Not sure if it is available at anyone's local library, but it's worth a looking into:

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Pharmaceutical-Controlled-Release-Technology/dp/0824703693/ref=sid_dp_dp
 
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maybe substitute chloroform for one of the solvents and test it.Chloroform is used in the production of heroin hcl,as it evaporates the quickest of most solvents.Maybe a mixture of acetone with chloroform or something?? Just an idea,although chloroform is not as easily obtainable as acetone or methyl ethyl ketone.aka MEK..
 
so I tried something...maybe stupid, but I couldn't find any mek to experiment with. I picked up a bottle of "Ooops" which i s equivalent to Goo Gone. The ingriedients are acetone and methynol (sp).
1. I scraped half a pill holding it with pliers and using a brand new Ped Egg
2. Put the powder in a spoon, added 2 or 3 drops of Ooops
3. waited about 5 min. messesd around with the spoon substance...it did dry out! but it was still very fibrous looking.
4. i added a few more drops, let it dry and made a line out of it
5. I was able to snort it, however, any residue in my nostril did turn gooey. But it went up and stayed up.

but then i got scared and ate the rest. What do u guys think? Has anyone else tried "Ooops" or would you?
 
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