Opioids Experiment Thead - New Formulation Oxycodone Extraction

[DarrenRM]

My Second Ideas to Try

Degrading PEO: Idea 1
Degrading the PEO will release the oxy from a pill. One way to degrade it is through shear forces. I did a little research and found this graph on how shear rate sky-rockets when forcing a liquid through a small pipe at a high speed.

Graph: Shear Rate


An interesting experiment would be to turn your OP into a very fine powder, add that powder to some 100% IPA. Next, you would need to build a small liquid pump that feeds itself or pumps the IPA solution in a circle at a fairly high pressure. Perhaps a fountain pump might work here? Fish tank pump? The chart above shows how a high-flow plus a small pipe will cause extreme shear forces. A few hours, or even minutes, might be enough stress to degrade the PEO to PEG, and cause the oxy to become sediment.

A good experiment would stop every 5-10 min and take a picture of the amount of sediment that has been released.

Degrading PEO: Idea 2
A ghetto version of this might be to make a very fine powder, add a small amount of 100% IPA to make a paste. Then use a mortar and pestle to grind the fuck out of it for several minutes. Add to more IPA, let sit. See how much sediment is released.

Degrading PEO: Idea 3
Last, in Purdue's patent they show a 70% IPA solution caused 35-45% release of the oxy. We know the PEO will dissolve in IPA (but they used 70%, not a good choice) and, most importantly, IPA doesn't degrade the PEO (which is the key to extraction) because many people have tried IPA and no one has had a successful extraction.

So why did they have 35-45% success with a 70% IPA solution made from a poorly-milled (not very fine) pill? Because they used a constant-stirring device for 60 minutes which broke down the PEO and released the oxy! This needs to be tried: someone grinds the pill VERY fine, uses 100% IPA to prevent gelling, and then uses a magnetic stirrer (or some other way of stirring very vigorously) for a few hours. Maybe then we could achieve a higher percent, evaporate the IPA, and have our extraction method!

 

[amapola]

if one freezes a solution of ops and water, will the oxycodone precipitate out of the ice? what about some other solvent that perhaps doesn't freeze easily

^no

For this to work you would need a solvent in which oxycodone is only partially soluble and the solubility is very sensitive to changes in temperature (don't know of of any off the top of my head).

Not sure what you are trying to do but there is almost assuredly an easier chemical method.

 

[orangescrewpen]

okay sorry i should have read more before I typed, I was referencing a step in the acetone/ethanol extraction processes and just didn't read enough before I posted, I looked in to this thread a lot in the past and just took another look.

Consider this:
1. statement regarding the nature of the product being a 12hr med and its ability to fully release in 12 hours in a glass of water

2. the fact these pills are fully extracted when ingested normally

3. the possible fact these will remain whole through the digestive tract. Ive read of someone with a poor digestive tract defecating complete pills, although presumably with the oxy released since the patient still got effect.

4. the fact I have vomited myself within 30-120 minutes of these pills being ingested and seen the gelatinous mass formed by several of them (interesting fact, gelatinous mass = less dense than stomach contents). Note: Vomiting was caused by myself having a weak stomach, eating weird combo of foods with the pills on accident, such as a bunch of citrus with nothing else in my stomach in the morning, and I strongly personally believe, that these pills are weird and my stomach no like do to some sort of indigestion reason.

SO...this leads me to believe an OP left in a cup of water overnight (12+hours) will fully release all of its medication....nothing new right?

BUT...all of these methods call for milling of the pill in to a powder...but why? You swallow them whole and the gel-matrix-diffusion mechanism still work (albeit your GI tract is a bit more complex than a standing cup of water) (Just threw in number four for fun)

SO...I put a 10mg OP in to maybe 25ml of filtered water. 4-5 hours later it is still a whole although expanded pill. I imagine the water is working its way in, releasing its treasure. The water tastes somewhat bitter, definetely there but I think it will get more bitter. You can see the pill become more transparent as it expands and "dissolves." The water, importantly, does not gel up nearly as much. There does seem to be some of that gelly sliminess but only a minimal amount, an amount that may be avoided with a teabag. I've tried a water extraction with milled pills and in that condition they gel up and make the water disgusting to even consider drinking. I wouldn't need to think twice about drinking this solution as long as the water doesn't get worse in the next 12 hours.

Voila, your oxy solution with all the gunk packed away in one tough package. Thanks Purdue!

The Next step: evap h20 till its a small quanitity and mix with filler
The next next step: scale up 10x! also use distilled water, also, scrap of the coating first, it seems to dissolve fully in to the water and leaves a very slight murkiness so might as well get rid of it when you can, I was just looking for a less time consuming method.

Note: the use of cotton balls to filter the gunk is genius! Thats what held me up before, I just took one look and didn't even want to consider using those constantly clogging filters. Worked perfectly for a milled acetone extraction.

 

[Jwndy]

Coca Cola & Lemon Results

I get 80s prescribed. They do work some on the pain, but not as much as the originals, and they take between 1.5-2 hours to take effect. I used to be able to take an OC while in bed in the morning and be functioning normally within 30 minutes, but it takes much much longer with the OPs. So basically, all I'm trying to do is make them work faster while taking them orally.

I have read a little on this issue, but I must admint I haven't read all 21 pages of this post. I've tried some of the simpliest methods without much luck. However, I am hearing alot about the coca-cola & lemon juice methods, and I've done quite a bit of testing, and I'm not getting the results that some have. I've tried dissolving 80's cut in eights in coca-cola and lemon. I measure out 120ml in a bottle and put the pieces in. They turn into the hydrogel in about 15 min. I don't bother trying to powder them because I figure the actual timed release mechanism is at the molecular level, not at the physical (pill or powder) level. At the 15 min level, I 've heated in the microwave to no noticalbe effect (still takes 1.5-2 hours to dull pain). After that failed, I decided to let the solution sit for 24 hours (swirling it around a few times but no heating this time). Same results. I've let it set for 96 hours. Same results.

A couple of observations - at the 24 hour point or 96 hour point, the liquid is a little thicker and has a distinct slimy or oily residue that is not there with regular coke. If you pour it into a spoon and drink it, you can lick the spoon and feel a very slight slimy coating that comes off after a couple of licks. Also, I have timed the onset of the effects pretty closely. I set my clock for 5:30 am (used to be 6:30 before the OPs came out), and I drink the liquid. At 6:45 am I can feel the oxycodone start to work, and 7-7:15, I am relieved of enough pain to allow me to get out of bed. These times are the same whether I take the pill whole, cut it up and smash with a hammer (which seems to work a little better than taking it whole, but not much) or whether I dissolve it in a coke and/or lemon juice.

From my observations, I've concluded that simply dissolving it, no matter how long you leave it, is not doing anything to the rate of release. I also read in the Purdue report (see JustTestings single summary page) that they tested it in varying ph and it had no effect or rate of release).

I like the write-ups by justtesting and others about breaking down the PEO and I like lumpterto's analogy of the block-long wrapping paper and the marble (post #481) to help me see just how difficult this stuff is to extract. In my opinion, they've made it so difficult that it harms some of their legitimate patients (and I know the FDA/DEA has a much to do with this as Purdue), but I do feel there is a way to break down the PEO and make it a little faser acting.

Holding it with plyers under a toaster oven and/or socking it with UV light might be my next experiments. I wonder if you just dissolved it in water in a glass bottle and set it out in the sun for many days it would throw enough UV at it to break down the PEO? Would this harm the oxycodone?

 

[motiv311]

sublingual for one hour (try not to talk or eat or drink) then swallow the remaining saliva

 

[Spankyspank]

I would like to hear a "good job, we have done it!"

I would like to thank everyone for there "hard" work and many experiments, you guys rock. Alas, I would really like to hear from Justtesting, or some of the other resident know it alls(I say that with respect) in regards to the crisping method and their thoughts. I have done the method 2 times and still can't give a true opinion, and would like to know if anyone can give an approx. % of oxy destroyed or released and a refined method of extraction to produce a pure powder product. If I took all of the theorys from "crisping method" on, one would assume that post method, one could dilute the "crisp" in IPA to capture the plastic binders but then what? I don't want to have to pull out beakers and sivs, but since the plastic is now "broken" what does everyone think will be the easiest way to extract the good stuff. The more we can refine this down to something everyone can do, the less likely every painkiller to come will be in this form. (I personally belive that the current questionare from Activis is testiment to that, and they plan to make the wonderfull Roxi 30's in this fashon unless we show that we will just find an easy way to break it) Thank you all for your help and dedication.

 

[mtop2036]

OK so i've tried the microwave method and have some questions.

After cooking it the powder it is melting to my plate and I have to SCRAPE it off. Is this right? I mean its so melted that i have a hard time getting it off the plate, then trying to get it chopped up is another story.
I havnt actullly snorted the final product, im waiting to see if I am doing it correctly first.

Thanks

 

[lumpterto]

Pictures

 

[lumpterto]

I was reading about the methods that use solvents, it just didn't seem like a good idea to use those kinds of chemicals for something that is going into the circulatory system, especially when you don't have to. The coke idea just makes me cringe, i don't like the taste of coke, let alone the taste of oxy mixed in with that.

I am curious though, i have a friend that's been IVing for the better part of 7 years, and he never uses a micron filter. Just a qtip cotton. The op solution is yellow in the dart, but there are no particles. He's never had a problem. I can see how if you aren't careful it could be a problem, but I'm curious why everyone is all about the micron filter. Seems kind of unecessary to me.
.

If you distill the solvents beforehand, collecting into a clean flask, then everything should evaporate off well and it should be safe. But if you would attempt using solvents I would suggest getting an organic chemistry glassware set on ebay... plus the stands and clamps and hoses and pump and heat source (built my own stands and use Coleman camp burners for heat).

The micron filter is necessary for this because there will be particulate matter. No matter how many times you try to filter this you cannot "see the numbers on the other side." This is that stupid rule of thumb people use for brown and works just fine for that but for pills the undissolved material is much worse for you.

 

[missblackpaint]

Getting the most out of Oxy OP

SWIM used the following method to break through the OP binders and found it to be quite successful:

1. take off as much of the coating as possible with a damp cloth, then put it in the microwave for 30 seconds 4X, then tear it into as many pieces as possible.
2. put it on a spoon (without water) and hold a flame underneath it for about 15 seconds. flip the pill and do it again.
3. tear the pill into more pieces if necessary.
4. put about 50 cc water onto the pieces in the spoon and hold flame underneath until it begins to boil.
5. smash the pieces quickly (it will still be gooey), then add a bit more water.
6. quickly throw in a cotton and draw up as much as possible into the syringe, following by drawing up some extra water.
7. SWIM considered Iv-ing the liquid, but decided against it. it's just not worth it. instead, spray the liquid slowly into your nose and let it drip down your throat.

the liquid will still be a little gooey but not enough that it will clog up your nose. SWIM is a former H-addict. Now only get an occasional OP 10 mg from my mother, but this method was quite satisfactory.

 

[Tommyboy]

There is the oxy experiment thread HERE which may mention this method.

There is also the "defeating the new time release" thread here, but it has reached it maximum post #.

Here is another relevant thread.

Oh, and we don't use SWIM here.

 

[DonaldGately]

An attempt with naught but good old fashioned H2O

Dissolved about half (slightly less than half) an OP-60 in warm water from right out the tap. The half-pill had been milled as finely as possible, with the remaining bit (which I couldn't file down with a nail-file any further due to how small it'd become — the nail file at this point was more like grinding against my fingertips and not getting any pill) with the remaining bit sliced into tiny slivers.

I added all this to warm water, filling up a regulation-size plastic cup — in other words I didn't measure at all, though obviously this much water is sufficient to dissolve such a small amount of pill — and stirring for a good couple minutes. I then put the cup aside for around 20 hours, stirring here and there when I had time.

I just drank what was in there, which looked completely clear and had no taste whatsoever, though it was *slightly* more viscous than your usual H2O.

Now, while I was a terrific chemistry student in high school, it's now been ten years since I took a class in any kind of science, really, so I don't even know what mechanism of action I'm hoping for here — I guess it's that both the polymer binder and oxy HCl would dissolve in water, but that the oxy would've separated in solution, and so what I just consumed, in effect, was an IR dose of the oxy along with a who-cares amount of plasticky binder-crap.

I guess we'll know in a few minutes ... will update.

Oh and by the way I have a very low tolerance, so if'n it's an IR amount on the order of 25 mg, I'll DEFINITELY feel it.

 

[baschoen]

If I just grind it up and put it in coca cola for like 8-10 hours will that work in defeating the time release or does it NEED to be heated?

 

[Spankyspank]

The last 3+/- people that posted did not do their reading!

HELLO!?!?!?!?! Did u guys not read the 20 pages of posts on this???? If u "grind" up the IP'S (new) OC's, then u would know that just adding water does not work. The bonds must be "BROKEN". And just adding to water will not extract all or even a fraction of the good stuff! You r better off just swallowing the damn thing! Go back to @ least page 19 to see one way to "break" the polyimer bond and allow extraction without the "gel" effect of the plastic that holds in the oxy called the "CRISPING METHOD" unless u are a chemist, this seems to be the easiest way (microwaving hasn't been proved, confirmed, or suggested by someone reliable). READ THE DAMN THREAD PEOPLE, THE WHOLE THREAD!. And by the way, my crisping advise is that once it comes out of the toaster and is still melted to a golden brown, take the corner of a razorblade and "cut" or "drag" lines across the melted mass to streach it out and to make lines in it to spread it out so that once it cools and solidifies, it is flakier and u get many small "flakes" rather than tiny rocks or balls. If u spread the melted mass out and drag the metled stuff across the glass as long and fine as possible, u end up with much more volume which is small, fine flakes once cooled and hardened. I am still waiting for a response on my post about making a pure power or residue out of the crisped product; hopefully buy disolving the plastic in acholol (ISA) but then how do u remove the saturated disolved binders and plastic from the oxy? If u add water to the mixture, will the (ISA) and water mixure seperate like oil and water into 2 layers? And if so then can one just suck out the water layer containing the oxy???? Please help!

 

[amapola]

^IPA will dissolve in pure water however you can salt it which will result in 2 separate immiscible solutions.

 

[BlueLightBeam]

sift, freeze for 10 minutes, microwave until golden brown, freeze for 10 minutes, scrape and chop, sniff

That's it. It works. I've done it repeatedly.

 

[blueboymke]

I have some new insight to offer to the smart people in this thread who are attempting to break the polymer bond with solvents.

The industry I work in uses a non-readily available solvent that might be worth checking out.

I work in the commercial sign industry, on large format ink jet printers. The inks are solvent based, and a vast majority of the materials we print on are petroleum based plastic products, PVC's, etc. I don't have a vast chemistry background, but what I was thinking is that, from what I'm reading, the polymers that bind to the oxy are very similar in molecular makeup to the materials we print on. Since the solvents in the inks break the polymers in the materials to allow the pigments to penetrate into the plastic materials, the raw solvent might do the same thing to an OP. The solvent is available by itself (outside of the ink) and it's generally used to clean the printers etc. This solvent might break the polymer that binds to the oxy better than the M.E.K or Acetone that others have tried. I've played with both of these solvents on my inks and they don't do much besides severely malformed the vinyl based substrates, whereas the "cleaning solvent" is able to soften the vinyl, remove the ink, etc.

Again, since I don't have a strong background in chemistry, I don't feel comfortable experimenting on an OP, but I'm sure there are others here who would love to try a new method!

Some other points about this solvent I want to make are, it evaporates VERY quickly, faster than MEK and acetone, and is considered by the mfg. as an eco-friendly solvent.

Also, from my experiences, one thing that seems to be missing here is the amount of agitation! I think we might yield better results if our solution were agitated on a centrifuge prior to "gas out". I'm envisioning a vile coming off the centrifuge, being slowly heated on a bunson on low heat, and the results would be a vile full of pure white crystalline powdered oxy.

Another point that hasn't been brought up in this thread yet is condensation collection (like a still). If a generous amount of distilled water were added to the solvent/op mix and heated in a still, I'd assume the oxy particles would stick to the water vapor, leaving behind the polymers. This vapor could travel up a coil, condense, and be collected into a second vile offering even more purity and separation!?

So here's how my theory goes.

1. remove outter shell
2. Crush under emmense force (5+ tons) on 2 plates with machined surfaces (for optimal powdering (even with the polys)
3. Mix powder with printing solvent
4. Agitate on centrifuge
5. Evap solvent with very low heat, for a decent amount of time
6. Add distilled water
7. Distill and collect condensation
8. evaporate, and scrape up what should be the remains of the pure oxy.

** My theory for distillation and condensation collection is based on the simple principal that the polymers are heavy, inorganic, and not water based, where as the oxy in it's pure form is, so if you distill it, the condensation should pick up the particles of oxy in the condenser coil leaving behind the heavy plastic based polymers.

Anyone care to help me test this theory? <snip>

What do you Chemistry guys think of my hypotheses? I've been thinking about it for months! Not because I even want to do the pills anymore, only because I enjoy the hunt, and it's sort of like life hacking. Someone told us were not supposed to do something, so now I want to do it more.

 

[DenverCriss]

Vinegar + h2o2 + baking soda

I don't post much, and I'm not a professional chemist. I am, however, very interested in extracting the oxy from the op formulation to PLUG. I do not IV.

After fine milling of the OP pill with a pedi-paws, and then soaking the powder in a shotglass with vinegar and hydrogen peroxide I heat it in a microwave to sub-boiling temperature. I DO NOT end up with that sticky goo. It seems to be disolved. I have applied one additional step which I have not seen on any of the forums. To top it off by de-oxidating the peroxide and adjusting the ph of the acetic acid (vinegar) I use baking soda. It does foam a bit, but I slowly keep adding baking soda until it no longer foams. At this point the ph is neutral and it is de-oxidated and yet well disolved. It is ready to plug. I have done this a couple of times now.

Does this sound reasonable to you guys? Does anybody else plug oxy?

 

[dynamite69]

Ok--- so here is my current experiment status' so far.

1.) Milling / Grinding OP 80 - I have found the best way to crush OP80 with the use of a foot file / nail file. Hoseclamp did not work good. Using the file, I was able to get it to a powder around 20% thicker than the old OC.

2.) Experiment 1: Fail - My first experiment was to mill the OP80 and I left it overnight in a mixture of apple cider vinegar and lemon juice. 8-9 hours later, I drank it and received minimal if any effects except a horrible case of acid stomach. I suspect all the acid may have killed the alkaloids or something, or just failed to extract it completely.

3.) Experiment 2: Fail - Grinding up and parachuting - despite milling these OPs down, they still retain substantial time release. I found this to be a failure and it released the oxy slowly over the course of many hours.

4.) M.L.K - I read that if you put M.L.K drops (a popular, common solvent) in a spoon to saturate some milled OP 80, then let it evaporate, it dissolves the plastic and leaves a snortable powder that does not Gel. Many people report success with this, but I did not. Perhaps I did not use enough M.L.K or let it dissolve for long enough.

I posted this in the other thread, but I find this information useful and suggest you all read it here in case u missed it:

From the Purdue website, here is a summary of the info I found:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/08/slides/2008-4356s1-05-Purdue.pdf

Besides the obvious Simple, Medium, and Complex solvent thing that has everyone confused--- here is some information you guys should consider in ur investigations:

1.) At room temperature, using commonly found solvents, the best they could do was extracting 50% of the oxycodone for SHORT DURATION Shakign Extractions at room temperature.

2.) At room temperature with some less readily available solvents, extraction was as high as 70% during a "SHORT DURATION" shaking extraction at room temp.

3.) When we are dealing with EXTENDED extraction times at ROOM temperature--- some SIMPLE HOUSEHOLD solvents extracted up to 78% of the oxycodone! That might mean if we leave oxycodone soaked in acetone, M.E.K, or Ether for some time we can get almost 80% of the OC out. How long is an extended duration, I wonder? 1 hour, 2, hour, 4 hours-- shaking and stirring it. In the end, I woudl assume we would filter out the gunk, evaporate the solvent, and be left with pure oxycodone residue. The 22% or so that wasnt extracted would remain in the gunk we filter and we could eat them or something. There was one simple solvent they listed, however, that only got 2-9% out--- in otherwords destroying the alkaloid entirely. Not sure which one that is but maybe we can research solvents known to destroy oxycodone molecules. The Medium and Complex solvents all removed most of the oxycodone when leaving them at room temperature for extended periods of time.

4.) Extraction at elevtaed temperatures had adverse effects on the oxycodone so we can safely exclude that from our experiments and stick to room temperature experiments.

5.) Some further information regarding their methods of extracting oxycodone:

“During in vitrotesting, tablets were manipulated to recover oxycodone by crushing, milling, heating, and crushing followed by boiling and filtering fragments, and crushing followed by extracting with various solvents, including ethanol.The tablets either did not break or broke into fragments that retained some of the controlled-release characteristics.When in contact with aqueous media, the tablets or the fragments formed a gelatinous mass.”

PS. IF you look on their website, the picture of their CRUSHED OP looked like shit.... it was super chunky, and with a foot file I can get my OP WAY better than their picture. Perhaps they experimented on the OP while it was all chunk like the picture to prove to the FDA their new OP was soooo good. I'll bet if we file it down fine enough, we'll get better than the results they posted.

Hey, so i have been doing to 80 op's for awhile now. Iv tried all the methods posted on this site. For me the only thing i have found that works the best for me is getting a knife and just cutting the op into a bunch of small pieces and taking them all at once. It seems to work better than any other method i have tried

 

[Feldais]

Right right

I totally agree with those who say break the OPs into 6 or 8 pieces and just swallow them. I am very leery of experimenting with solvents or destroying alkaloids with heat. But I do know that I have taken 2 30mg OPs, used a pill cutter and cut them into tiny fragments. I held them under the tongue until either it was gelled or too nasty to taste. I swallowed and in 20 or so minutes I was feeling the affects and they did last for at least 4 hours. You have enzymes in your saliva that does break down the polys and your body temp should be just right. That is why I really think people are better off just either finding a drug that is safer to extract or just go out and get some H if you need to get high that bad. I also believe that what Purdue puts out or the FDA puts out on extraction is prolly going to be hella bias seeing as how they make a killing off these little devils! And I truly doubt that they would include natural enzymes found in saliva in their "studies". But what a lot of people don't realize is that this new formulation is based on the idea that stomach acid breaks the poly down at body temp and enters the system. That is the only thing that is "new" about this. There is just more poly binding to the oxy.

Just use what your body provides people! Heat and saliva. If you are not a chemist with a proper knowledge and tools just don't fuck with it! This is supposed to be about harm reduction. If you can't get a high on the new formulas fuck it and get some Mdones, Dilaudid, or H!!! It would be a shame to see some of you people get sick because of what is in some of these threads. And when the doc asks "What made you think this was safe?" The last thing I want is Bluelight taking the blame for someone who can't get their fix off of something safer and easier!