So I have no choice but to taper the heroin since I already tried to cold turkey it 3 days ago and it was just too intense but I noticed that I can handle about 20 hours after a dose and going into some withdrawal usually pretty bad by the 24th hour (already vomitting, couldn't stop shaking my whole body cause of restless legs/arms, and the depression was insane, couldn't put a single thing of food down my throat so I couldn't even get the relief of some food to make me feel a little better, cold turkeyed before with no problem in the past since I could at least get the pills down to help me feel better (5-htp, b-vitamins, etc) but now I just throw everything up fast cause the nausea is so strong).
Anyway, the point is, I used a dose yesterday of 3 bags injected (down from 5 bags and 3 bags got me a decent high for about 8 hours since I already went through 2 3/4th days of withdrawal which seemed to get my tolerance down quite a bit)....anyway yesterday 3 bags injected at 5:30 pm....waited til today at 6:50 pm to take 2 bags since I am tapering...went through quite a bit of withdrawal until 6:50 pm but I managed to suck it up since at least I could look forward to the relief of a shot of 2 bags...once again the withdrawal even though relatively short (24 hours approximately) has been enough to make 2 bags feel pretty ok. So I'm going to go through another 24 hours til my next shot making myself go through a bit of withdrawal then take another 2 bag shot, then by Sunday, I should be down to 1 shot and Monday being my final day down to 1/2 shot.
So my plan is shoot up go through about 18-24 hours of no shot (so experience some withdrawal which is usually very noticeable) then shoot up a little less then another withdrawal phase since so far I am quite capable of sucking up a little withdrawal and shooting up since Monday is my ultimatum...my final shot and it's for sure since my family already knows about this. My father is ok with this taper method since he already saw how horrible I was going through withdrawal already a few times up til now. But each time seems to be a bit less of misery and a smaller amount of heroin. But at that point, I'll be going off to a cousin's place that is totally out of state to stay for 5 days...can't get any dope there absolutely no dope in that area, it's a small town and I know no one.
Anyway considering my plan, has anyone tried something similar? When I finally do get to the total cold turkey on Monday do you think my withdrawal will be significantly reduced? Basically the game plan is once again, let myself experience withdrawal for about 20-24 hours, use a shot that is less, then another withdrawal phase, shoot up even less...until I get to Monday. Since I am allowing my body to withdraw and I'm taking less heroin, I figure since I am allowing withdrawal and my doses are getting smaller (and my tolerance seems to be going down as a result) I'm hoping that withdrawal when I'm at monday will be significantly lowered. What's everyone's opinion? I don't want ot hear any of that, oh you can't do this, no one can taper heroin since I already have for a few days and I'm being monitored AND I really do want to quit on Monday for good...I've been planning this for too long to fuck up esp. since I have to go back to school the following week post final cold turkey withdrawal. If anyone has tried something similar....please let me know I would like to know if anyone has reduced withdrawal quite a bit by experiencing withdrawal between constantly reduced heroin intake. I think it sounds like a good plan for now since originally my daily IV intake was about 4-6 bags per day and sometimes some Poppy pods on the side. I know if I cold turkeyed from that amount (which I already did) the withdrawal is too insane and I vomit way too much. I'm down to 2 bags per day this day being my 2 bag intake so I know I can do this. Please opinions and experiences welcome. I need to know if this will make a significant difference since I can't take this life of heroin use anymore. I have to stop.
A simplified version of my plan:
Sunday: withdrawal all day....no use
Monday 4 bags, 5:30 pm.
Tuesday: 3 bags at 6pm... (significant withdrawal until Wed. dose)
Wednesday: (withdrawal hit especially hard at 12 pm let myself withdraw until 6:50) 2 bags shot at 6:50 pm
Thursday: withdrawal symptoms until about 6:30, another 2 bag dose at about 6:50 pm.
Friday: withdrawal symptoms until 6:00pm another 2 bag dose
Saturday withdrawal symptoms until 6 pm, 1 1/2 bag dose
Sunday: withdrawal symptoms until 6 pm, 1 bag dose
Monday: Cold turkey day....no dose start of cold turkey at cousin's place.
Approximately 24 hours between doses to allow for withdrawal to occur.
i think your plan is quite excessive given the results you want. if your tapering then you should find the smallest dose that keeps withdraws at bay, then taper down from that. dont taper down your max dose. some people may not agree with this but i mean clearly you can make your taper last 14 days and see how bad cold turkey is after that, however cold turkey is still cold turkey no matter how you cut it. Day one is always day one.
You're right. 2 bags gave me a bit of a rush...but to my surprise, I'm starting to feel shitty again and it's only 1:26 am....so I'm probably not too far from a dose that will just take care of the withdrawal even though 2 bags will have me withdrawing quite badly until the next dose since I'm making myself withdraw for at least 13 hours before taking my next dose so my tolerance goes down fast. I think I should try 1 1/2 bags tomorrow instead of 2 and go down from there until Monday. Considering that 2 bags has me withdrawing the next morning already for at least 12 hours until my next dose, does this sound about right for 1 1/2 bags? Or maybe I should just try one.
Oh and even though I did the 2 bags today, I also do need 4 benadryl just to get to sleep since it's definitely not a high enough dose to make me tired enough to sleep...I'll just roll around. I don't know, just felt like throwing in this info, maybe it'll help you or someone else assess this situation.
Oh man...so I held up until about 4:20 pm today since dropping my dose to two bags has got me withdrawing much faster than I thought. So I took the 2 bags yesterday at about 6:50 pm and today at around 10 am I started ot wake up cause the wihtdrawal wasn't letting my body stay rested and asleep...I was getting very agitated and restless and nauseaous so the withdrawal was getting pretty intense already and by 3 pm I puked uncontrollably on the side of the road on the way to get my 2 bag dosage for today. At 4 I took my two bags and what a relief, the rush was more intense than 3 bags was a few days ago which is a great sign since that means my tolerance is going down due to constantly feeling withdrawal every day for a given period of time and doing a smaller dose after experiencing some withdrawal. The plan seems to be working so far. But man was withdrawal annoying today, not as bad as yesterday though in terms of restlessness and depression but the nausea got me vomitting pretty badly even though I had nothing in my stomach almost. I threw up what little food I ate yesterday night and the rest was dry heaves...very unpleasant. This is all accompanied with a bit of shaking and definitely feeling very cold chills despite it being hot outside, I wanted to wear a sweater. But anyway, tomorrow should be even less at 1 1/2 bags...then keep going down from there until monday as I said. I'm considering taking kratom for the cold turkey week to make the withdrawal easier and then cutting off the kratom after a week on it....what's the recommended dose for withdrawal when using kratom?
Anyway, besides that, like I said my plan is working nicely since each day my smaller doses are producing good rushes proving that my tolerance is going down fast due to experiencing what I call micro withdrawal (periods of withdrawal between doses that last at least 13 hours) and using less each day which is what is necessary in making my cold turkey withdrawal on Monday as minimal as possible. I read guidelines saying to reduce 20% heroin per day and I'm doing about 33% according to my calculations so far which is probably why I'm getting nasty withdrawal in between doses...which is good, the more the body experiences withdrawal as I taper down, the less intense the withdrawal will be when I cold turkey it on Monday at least, that's what my doctor thinks and also what I theorized. So anymore advice people can have on this? I totally think heroin tapering is possible and I'm doing it...so I don't want to hear any crap about this being impossible because I am already successfully doing it and have no urge to use more than I should despite having sleep issues lately. Plus, my dad is monitoring how much money I have so I get just the amount I need to taper down for the day. He is also watching me prepare my doses so I don't try to do anything stupid and wreckless by using more than I should. He is a very open minded guy and is helping me a lot with tapering and then finally cold turkeying this shit. He is helping by limiting my funds since I have no other money from anywhere but what he gives me which is great so i can properly taper the doses as I should.
Anyway, that's all I got to say for now....now I just wait til this dose wears off, go through another withdrawal phase and take my dose tomorrow at around the same time so it's a good 20-24 hours between doses to get the tolerance and use down.
Please people, reply, I need as much help as I can get since I am desperate to quit and so far I only got one reply which sucks. I need support from people here...that's why I signed up. I still feel very alone doing this despite my dad knowing about it. He isn't here with me most of the day since he has work so I feel very alone and it's depressing.
I honestly think people are a bit "scared" to reply because when I saw 'tapering from heroin' my first thought was "oh no".
I've always had an interest to know whether or not anyones actually successfully done it. But I believe once you get past the psychological 'need to get high' feeling, it really should be like tapering any other opiate. And once you get low enough the half life is so short the jump off will be much easier than something like sub or pods. So in that respect I certaintly say KEEP GOING.
Heroin is pretty much the only opiate I never got into, so I wish I knew more about how you could taper it. But my best advice would be, taper at a rate that doesn't have you too sick. Never push yourself too hard or it will trigger cravings you might not be able to deal with. Thats really the secret with any taper imo.
I also think the wd phase will get to a point where antihistamines will stop working for sleep. But I really am not sure with diesel.
If you start getting RLS load up on caltrate (calcium magnesium) and tonic water (quinine). Although it prob won't stop it it should help moderate it a lot. But if you taper slow enough you might now even have to deal with it that bad.
For the stomach problems, obviously loperamide. And don't forget loperamide itself will plug receptors in the body, leaving more heroin available to hit receptors in your brain. So it WILL also potentiate the dope.
You would prob get a lot more support over in TDS, as other drugs isn't really a recovery related forum.
So you may want to consider getting this thread moved. But in the meantime I will be watching everything you do and offering advice whenever I think you need it. Just take it slow and comfortable. And don't even think about relapsing, you have your whole life to relapse. Treat this like an experiment, and JUST SEE if you can break the physical addiction.
Don't focus on "getting clean" or changing your life just yet. Keep it simple, focus on your behavoirs more than your thoughts, and as long as you keep doing what you're doing you CAN stop.
And I'd like to see you stop, because you'll give other heroin users that much more faith in themselves.
Thanks for the support man, yea I don't see why it's so difficult to taper with heroin...it's actually quite nice knowing that after going through my mini withdrawal phases which have been relatively intense but getting less intense between doses that having a dose of heroin even though less in dose gives me something to look forward to so I can handle tapering without feeling horrible cravings. And since my tolernace is constantly going down every day that I go through the mini-withdrawals, the smaller doses of heroin actually do give me a nice buzz...nothing crazy but enough to make me feel confident in lowering my dose yet again the next day so this is working out so far pretty well. I'm still dreading the long time between doses because I do go into withdrawal for at least 10 hours and that still does suck but it's just enough time for me to feel like crap without feeling like I'm losing my mind. So, so far so good. I'm tapering rather successfully and doing 2 bags at this point down from 4-6 bags ived is a huge accomplishment for me and I'm only going to keep going lower as to complete the taper by Monday which is my official quit/cold turkey day since I'll be moved to my cousin's since there it'll be impossible to get my hands on any opiates.
Just wondering for the cold turkey phase, would it be ok to go on kratom? From what I read it's done wonders for withdrawal. Despite the tapering I know the withdrawal will still be relatively intense although much less than just going from 4-6 bags to nothing, would it be ok to use kratom to get through the cold turkey week? It appears to have very minimal withdrawal in itself esp. compared to something like OC or heroin. Let me know what you or anyone else thinks about kratom since I am leaning towards the decision to order some online tomorrow so I can have some by Monday for the week of withdrawal.
So far my list of supplements/drugs that i'll have at my disposal for withdrawal on Monday are these:
-Ativan 2 mg pills (probably not going to use it for more than one dose a day for 3-4 days and I'll cut it off...really don't want an addiction to that but I only have like 10 pills so I should be fine)
-5-htp (for mood)
-Loperamide (immodium) 2mg pills
-benadryl (probably won't use it since I think this'll irritate the restless legs and my tolerance to this is already up from the past few days of mini withdrawals to help me sleep....so I might just switch to doxylamine succinate (active ingredient in nyquil) since from what I remember, it didn't irritate the restless legs so bad
-probably going to stock up on gatorade and ensure since I doubt i'll be able to eat much for the first few days since the nausea is quite bad with heroin withdrawal and anything I put into my stomach just comes out...so I might not even use many of these pills I have for a couple days til things get better
-lots of water
-exercise starting on day 2
-netflix so I don't get bored!
That's about it, that's what my defenses will be for when I go into withdrawal cold turkey starting Monday. I don't believe in using methadone or suboxone or buprenorphine.....not saying these are horrible since it works for a lot of people but I don't need to extend my dependency on yet another opiate....it always seemed detrimental to me which is why I gone through two cold turkeys up til now, hoping to God this is my last one and I never relied on any of that stuff. I've been using for close to two years. First year was mostly poppy pods grinded and mixed with orange juice...worked up to 12-15 pods per day. Then heroin started coming into the mix at the one year point...snorting heroin until about 3 months ago when I started to IV unfortunately cause it took me about 7-8 bags of heroin to feel normal...not even a buzz and to my disappointment, I thought I was going to IV only a few times so I can finally achieve a nice high but the high was so damn good and so intense just on one or two bags despite being able to snort 7-8 bags that I got hooked even worse with IVing. I really hate that I got intot he needle...it's the worst thing that has happened to me thus far in terms of addiction to opiates. Heroin iving is ridiculously addictive, not even coming close to snorting bags. That was childs play compared to this. I regret this more than anything else and that's why I'm quitting now...it will only get worse if I keep IVing heroin. It's too intense and too addictive, it takes over one's soul and changes the person. I can't stand IVing anymore...I never wanted so badly to stop and that's why I'm going through with this taper and cold turkey and that's why I even told my parents for the first time....that was something I had to do to prove to myself that I'm serious about quitting. A way to build up confidence in myself. And yes, I do plan on doing something about the post withdrawal phase so I do want to attend NA meetings regularly and possibly see a counselor every week as well to help me get through the psychological issues since I know damn well up til now that this is the worst thing that can aggravate another relapse and I already relapsed twice in the past...I'm tired of relapsing. IVing heroin is not a good life to have at all. It's the worst life I could have imagined for myself and I'm tired of lieing to all my friends all the time. I've never lied to my friends about anything in the past...so this is a huge eye opener for me. The fact that I'm lieing, lost all my muscle, lost interest in a lot of things, sold my guitar for God's sake....sold lots of stuff that I used to have for making music. It's taken away a lot from me just because of the desperation one gets into from heroin use.
Any words of encouragement is welcome, I need your help people. I know and I admit to myself this time so I don't make the same mistakes in the past that I must do this with help. No one can go at it alone....I need people to make me think twice and support me because that's how it is with opiate addiciton, you NEED the support of others that care.
Holy fuck! Pardon my French but I’ve never actually looked at the half-life of heroin before, they say its ***15-30mins***. Is that true? I thought it would be closer to morphine at like 2-3 hours but that’s just pure craziness. I think for the first time in my life I realize WHY heroins so addictive lol. I always knew the peaks were intense, but I never realized how short they were too. I mean that is literally a drug made from hell no wonder so many people have issues kicking it. It has absolutely NO durability at all in your body.
I can’t understand how you’re making it 24 hours like that bro you deserve serious props for that, really. I was complaining on my taper with pods that after 10-12 hours I’d start wding, but you’re prob feeling in less than half that time. Someone should give you a nobel prize for tapering lol, I’m dead serious.
Ok well anyway, to the kratom idea.<no sourcing no websites>. If you choose to use kratom, I can’t stand the idea of you getting some less than top quality leaf.
As far as it helping, man, I really honestly think the loperamide would help more. Kratom does have activity in those receptors, but its just different. Even when I jumped off a 6gm dose of pods it seemed the kratom wasn’t doing much. But I was in a good enough spot from the taper to not really need it.
I tried kratom a few days ago, now completely off opiates, and even still it just doesn’t have that old kratom feeling that is use to. I hear a lot of people say it can take 1-2 months off opiates before you’re able to feel kratom, full agonist opiates just rape the shit out of your receptors like that.
But on the OTHER HAND. Peoples biologies are so different that I wouldn’t feel right telling you not to get it. I DO see tons of people tapering off hydro/oxycodone, and some of them claiming it helped up to 70% with wds. It could also be that my suppliers not as good as I hype them up to be.. who really knows? But if you have the money, its worth a shot imo.
I still think bumping the loperamide up to 30-40mg a day would help a ton more. The key with lope is matching your dose right. And a lot of people are scared to take more than less fearing it will constipate them. But if you are IN WDS, you are already spewing gallons of “water” out of your ass all day long. So it does very much balance out even at high doses. But I personally had a lot of luck with lope when I grew some balls to take higher doses. That’s when I really learned why people respect it, it IS an opiate, and it DOES cross the BBB in small amounts. But it plugs your body up in much large amounts, and like 90% of wds seem to be in the body anyway.. so definitely DO NOT underestimate lope.
The clonidine and ativan will also help A LOT. I’m glad you picked ativan over xanax or klonopin because ativan rocks for wds. It was the only benzo that allowed me to sleep in detox.
I also lost all my muscle, and put like 15lbs on. I use to be in tip top shape before starting opiates (pods) and now I have to earn all that shit back. But after enough experiences with opiates there IS a point in your life where it sort of just gets old. Like ok, it feels great to get high.. but wtf? Is it REALLY WORTH being robbed of every ounce of well being that you ever had?
The trade off is just not worth it anymore for me. And for once in my life I’m trying to learn how to actually accept full responsibility for the havoc I wreak. I can blame some disease I’m not even sure exists (addiction) or I can tell myself that opiates don’t have feet. They don’t walk up to my mouth and jump in, my HANDS do that for them. So how is it not 100% my responsibility to avoid that? Just sucks that its taking so many years to learn such a simple concept. But I’d definitely rather know it than not, as once you reach that point that you’re at, theres really NO LIMITS to what you can turn your life into.
I don’t even think 1 out of every 1000 heroin addicts can do what you’re doing. And you seem more than determined/deliberate with your approach. But most of all you obviously believe in yourself, because you’re well into the behavior/action part of the taper. Theres no way you could do this if you didn’t have some faith in yourself, so kudos to you for finding that inner strength bro.
I don’t wanna make this too long, but keep us updated anytime you are bored!!! And get off on the feeling that you are finally pushing your wheels out of the mud. A lot of people will keep their foot on the gas till the whole car is buried. You obviously are a very focused person. Keep it up bro!!!
Last edited by Coraline; 16-11-2012 at 20:13.
subpop200 I think you should extend the time period of your taper plan...i.e....take smaller doses over a longer period of time...this will lower the pain of withdrawal ALOT more.
But, I still think that the taper plan you came up with will definitely help your withdrawals, its just I still think you will still have some severe pain to deal with....to be honest, thats a VERY short taper plan. The more long and drawn out it is...the better
If I were you I would take like....
2 bags day 1
1 1/2 bags day 2
1 bag day 3
3/4 bag day 4
1/2 bag day 5
1/2 bag day 6
1/4 bag day 7
1/4 gab day 8
1/6 bag day 9
1/6 bag day 10
then drop off there.
Thats a very simple, quick version of a taper plan I just came up with that I know for a fact will work better than yours....but maybe your doing yours so quickly because you dont have that much time, I dont know...
...but if you do have the time...I would recommend something like I typed up there(but probably more long and drawn out)....basically...the longer the taper is, the slower you lower your doses to zero, the better it will be in the end....you coudl theoretically taper so slowly that you would have zero withdrawals in the end, but that would take a VERY long time....and its hard for an addict to stick to a schedule like that without giving in to temptation.....oh, yea....thats also a problem...the longer your taper plan, the longer you have to deal with temptaion....thats why its hard for someone online, like me(someone who doesnt know you), to tell you exactly whats the best method to taper for you....honestly only you can know that for sure...that was just my best advice I could give.
i agree with jamesbrown, the longer the taper, the better. That being said, id just like to say Hell of a good job your doing bro! I wish i could do what your doing right now, i just lack the will to quit, im not ready ya know? I've gone thru withdrawals more times than id like to remember. Usually with a benzo or subs. Sometimes cold turkey, but after doing it with benzos or subs i could never do another cold turkey withdrawal. Everytime i get clean tho, i end up relapsing with the intention to become a "chipper" It hasnt worked out for me yet and probabley never will =[ I too have lied to all my friends( this worked for a while but after a few years of this shit the only one your lying to is yourself) i've lost too many friends to this shit. I also sold my bass guitar amp gold and anything else i could sell for more than 10 bucks. Its ridiculous. I use to be a solid 165IB weight lifter with around 8% body fat. Benching 205 on incline bench ten times, doing the 100 pound dumbbells for 12 reps easy. Than i started taking all kinds of pills(30mg roxis to be exact) Than my girlfriend at the time ends up telling me shes doing smack. So im like "holy shit, i wanna try it" cause i had always wanted to except i lacked the connect. 2 weeks later im iving the shit and end up in rehab. I've od'd once in the back of my friends car after drinking 1/3rd of a fifth of vodka poping a xanax bar and doing a .3 shot of TAR. My friends turn around to see me slumped over lips blue not breathing in the back seat. The only reason i didnt die is because there was a hospital a half mile away from where we picked up. I got the whole shot in the heart thing and was pumped full of narcan. It was fucking horrible. The worse experience of my life, yet here i am. Cookin up another fix. Fuck i really need to re evaluate my life ..........
Hay sub. i just wanted to write and tell you ive read what you are going thro.. And i think your doing great man i only do 250mg of oxy a day and i know the pain im in when im tryn to get off. (witch im usually sucessfull in) i cant even get out of bed for days.. i cant even begin to understand what your going thro bro.. well good luck and keep updates cuz i to will be fallowing this thread to check on your progress bro.. stay strong
HEy SubPop, I am in Chicago too, Maybe we can somehow talk,, I got clean and maybe i can help you get clean the same way i did...
i used seboxone, if you can get it like i did, get like 5 8mg pills and start out with a dose that can keep wds a bay.;;; then every 2 days taper the dose to half of what you were taking until you get to like 1mg adn then take like every other day, then switch to Darvon and taper with that... withdrawls will be significantly less aweful... you will be very sad and adhedonic for like a week but you willll get over it, find a friend who you can talk to and who understands and you will be able to deal with your guilt and you will be okay... if you need anything please let me know.. maybe we can talk on AIM or Yahoo. I really want to help. I am a greenlighter so i cant send PMs but I would like to be a mentor or something if you want. if you dont need that its cool but keep me updated on how you are doing that would be awesome. ill put my email in my profile just remember so sign it SUBPOP
Hey guys, I'm back to update. I took one of these guy's advice and decided to taper a bit slower and discussed it with my father, he was a bit hesitant but he decided to move my cold turkey day to next week on Thursday so I'm going to taper for a few more days extra to make the cold turkey easier since he noticed that even though I lowered to 2 bags yesterday I was still experiencing significant withdrawal during the first half of the day before taking my dose. Which of course I did on purpose since experiencing some withdrawal between doses will only make the final cold turkey go much smoother since the body got some time off already. Anyway, today I did 1 3/4s instead of 2 bags at around 3 pm, was withdrawing before that and woke up at 8 am since my body would not let me sleep beyond that cause the withdrawal would kick in at that point already so I waited until 3 pm to take my next dose of 1 3/4s bags of dope. The withdrawal wasn't as bad, still bad but I'm starting to see a lowering in withdrawal starting today which means my body is getting used to these lowered tapered doses whcih is exactly what I was hoping for.
Anyway, puffpuffcup, I appreciate your advise and even though I am for suboxone and methadone for other people, I am strictly anti-sub/methadone because they have longer half lives which means my withdrawal once I get to cold turkey will be way longer than I need it to be. Honestly, I am tapering with heroin for two big reasons, cause it's been done in europe successfully due to it's short half life the cold turkey time will be significantly less than subs and methadone AND because I can experience withdrawal in between doses due to it's extremely short half life which I can handle and will get my body ready for cold turkey much better than tapering sub or meth. I know for a fact that sub and meth will only prolong my taper and prolong my cold turkey time when I get to it so I'm not willing to deal with that. Plus I know methadone will make withdrawal way way worse and longer and sub not necessarily worse as much as it will prolong it and I need to get off this crap fast since I want to get into aftercare asap and start looking for a job while I'm at school. I can't afford to waste time since we are poor and I also don't have money to get subs.....I can only afford 10-20 bucks a day which is going to the heroin taper dosages. I don't have insurance so that's also out of the question. Like I said, I'm not knocking that stuff just don't think it's for me since I don't have the money for it and I want to be off the dope sooner not later. I can't wait for saving up money for doctors and pay who knows how much more money to get that stuff without insurance. Plus, I can handle heroin taper and it's short half life makes it a much quicker taper and probably just as effective as subs anyway. I'm going to prolong my taper just by a few days cause it seems to be working quite well already I just believe it's goign to be significantly less painful if I go until thursday and managed to convince my father to allow me to do this. So this is probably what I'll do.
Today was: 1 3/4s
Saturday: 1 1/2
Sunday: 1 1/2
Monday: 1 1/4
Friday: Cold turkey....no more dope.
Anyway, just to fill ya'll in on how my withdrawal between doses today was compared to yesterday, I didn't throw up today which means it's an improvement and the withdrawal is getting lowered. I did feel pretty crappy though, no way I was going to sleep beyond 8 am despite only sleeping for 5 hours and my body being tired. Yea this is harder on my body but at least I can handle it...I'm only 25 years old pretty healthy overall. I felt the usual restless legs, restless body, aches just a bit, depression was much less than when I went from 4-6 bags to 3 bags a few days ago. So that means, tapering is working with the withdrawal periods in between doses helping my body get used to the lack of heroin. Like I said before, the period between doses is 20-24 hours which gives my body plenty of time to withdraw since heroin's half life is only 15-30 min. so the withdrawal does kick in quite fast compared to stuff like methadone and subs. I don't see myself ever succeeding on methadone...yea I probably won't experiencing any withdrawal between doses since it's a super long half life which is one benefit and I will be tapering much slower for a much longer period of time making the eventual cold turkey to be that much more painful and longer. I can't deal with that and don't want to handle it that way. Heroin is a much shorter half life which is perfect for me...when I do finally get to cold turkey which will be rather soon, it will only last for about 4 days and I'll already start getting better with the supplements and exercise. It'll definitely still be bad but I'll feel overall relief much faster than I would methadone or subs since they have a much longer half life. I don't need to be withdrawing for a month or two....even if it's less painful than heroin, that's just too long and too torturous overall. I am more for subs anyway than methadone, I'm sorry to say but methadone seems evil to me....that long half life and that long withdrawal makes me understand why people relapse so much after methadone is discontinued. I'm sure the post depression MUST last way longer with that too considering the crazy half life. It just seems scary as hell to me and I would never put that shit in my body. It's odd me saying that considering I'm taking heroin but I feel the same about heroin...of course much worse and a horrible drug to be addicted to. I hate it and I'm glad that I'm quitting in this way. It's much more comfortable than going from 4-6 bags a day to nothing which I already experienced which is what led me to consider the tapering...it was just way too much and I've been through withdrawal before but not off 4-6 bags IV....I've withdrawn from much lower doses of heroin snorted and doing poppy pods which was pretty bad but definitely did all that cold turkey with much less trouble than 4-6 bags IV to nothing. IT was brutal which is why I gave up. I'm sure going down to about 1/2 bag to nothing will be way better especially with allowing my body experience withdrawal between the tapered doses which is something to make the whole process even more effective in the end when I get to cold turkey.
But so far so good, I'm managing and I'm not feeling like death for too long and I can definitely realistically see myself doing this over any other prolonged and expensive method. This makes a lot more sense to me and I'm so damn tired of using drugs that there is no way I can fuck this up especially since I am being monitored. So like I said before, I have no choice, I'm being monitored, and I have great will power...always have. Of course not the greatest since I got myself addicted but definitely good enough that I already went through cold turkey in my lifetime twice with no use of subs or methadone and I never will believe in those methods.
And microtel, I would've actually wanted to do a hydrocodone taper but I don't have access to that. That actually makes a lot of sense too since it has a very short half life and I would probably get to cold turkey day a lot faster too with much more ease. If I had enough vicodins, I would have loved to withdraw with that tool...it would've made everything much easier but I don't have any vicodin nor do I have money to get enough to get me through withdrawal so unfortunately that's not an option. I would've been able to handle cold turkey much better with vicodin since for someone like me that's cold turkeyed poppy pods and snorted heroin before, cold turkeying vicodin would be a breeze for me with nice tapered doses and even if I took vicodin during withdrawal, I would still feel withdrawal since heroin is obviously way way stronger than vicodin.
James brown, thanks for the advice on the taper...I'm taking your advice to a certain extent...not as long as you mentioned but longer than I already planned which should make this much easier. Thanks a lot bro, you are definitely right and this will probalby make the whole process a whole lot easier.
Heroin Goblin, you sound a lot like me. Strength wise I was around where you were at. I was deadlifting 450 lbs, benching about 265 for one rep, doing about 225 for 10 reps on bent over barbell rows, throwing around 100s for dumbbell presses all that good stuff. I lost all of it and desperately want to get my old self back and you are definitely right, once you quit, CHIPPING IS NOT AN OPTION. You can't quit and expect to be responsible with dope again....I've made that mistake already which is why I'm here now paying for my stupid mistake. It went from chipping a little here and there to using every day way faster than ever since that's how dope works. It changes your brain chemistry every time you use so you convince yourself quicker to take dope every day and ruin your life again.
Anyway, thanks to everyone else for supporting me on this, I will need all of you when I get to cold turkey day for the next four days of hell when I finally get to it. I need lots of help...this is after all HEROIN. It's the worst thing to get addicted to especially IVed. I'm sure plenty of you know this already. Anyway, thank you all so much once again, I really appreciate that I have some people to support me because none of my friends know and I feel kind of alone that I don't have any friends to help me with this but I don't want them to know, I'd probably lose every single one of them. They are all very anti-drug types...esp. my giflriend. I don't want to lose her and she is one of the biggest reasons I'm doing this. She is a lovely girl and I love her to death and she has never used drugs in her life besides pot which I don't consider a drug. So telling her would be the death of me especially since her mother was a narcologist in Ukraine...she was helping people get off drugs so her whole family is a very anti-drug family and I would get torn apart by them and my girl would definitely leave me not just for using heroin but for lieing to her about using as well and definitely for using something that her and her mother believe is for low-life shit people. They are not the kind of non-judgmental anti-drug people you would expect, they think heroin is for the worst kind of low life people so they don't believe in this whole addiction is a disease thing...have mercy on the dope users mentality because in all reality we are suffering a lot and we do feel horrible for using at least a lot of us do and we are human beings and feel great guilt for getting into it. But they are not like this...my girlfriend is really wonderful in so many ways but she has a very negative view on drug use and I can't take any risks with her. So I have to quit...for her, for me, for my future, for my family, for God.
Another reason amongst many that I'm quitting is because I missed many shots in the past when I was shooting, had some shots that were like running pain up my arm that went away after a few seconds....all that got me really worried. I still have some tingling in my hands for the last 3 weeks, very little tingling but tingling nonetheless. I don't want to lose an arm or a hand...that is one of my biggest fears so I definitely need to quit for that reason as well. Want to get that checked out in the hospital next week at cook county since it's free. I don't have insurance so I have no choice but to wait in the hospital for about 10-15 hours to get checked out but I have to get this checked out since I missed shots and have some tingling and pain that I felt before. I always kept sanitary but regardless it's a big risk IVing and I can't take that risk anymore. I'm a guitarist, weightlifter, and I do a lot of work on the computer so I would be devastated if I lost a hand or an arm. But yea, definitely a good reason amongst many to quit heroin. It's way too risky. Like I said, always kept sanitary, always used new syringes...two syringes for every dose...one to get the clean water, one syringe strictly for shooting and always used alcohol to clean the spoon along with water...first water then alcohol. Then always washed my hands with soap then doused my hands and arms with alcohol and alcohol again to clean my whole arm and shooting site with cotton doused in alcohol. So always kept freakishly clean when shooting but still.
"James brown, thanks for the advice on the taper...I'm taking your advice to a certain extent...not as long as you mentioned but longer than I already planned which should make this much easier. Thanks a lot bro, you are definitely right and this will probalby make the whole process a whole lot easier."
Im glad I could help....and I really do think that the fact your extending your taper is a very good decision. Im even more glad that you seem to have a good support system there to help you (dad, mom?, etc...)....this is key when your quitting opiates and staying clean. I know that if it werent for my parents, I would be in jail or dead right now. They helped me(and financed) get on a suboxone mainanence plan which has worked miracles. I had ZERO withdrawals when switching from $200 IV heroin/ day to about 2 mg of suboxone a day.....and since I researched suboxone before I took it I was allready aware that "less is more" and when they prescribed me 12 mg's a day I only took 2 mg's starting off, and quickly lowered it to .5 mg's and am now pushing to around .3 mg's. At these doses I dont have to worry about withdrawing from the suboxone at all, I know this for a fact bacause ive allready taken breaks from using my suboxone and I had ZERO withdrawal effects.....I believe that it is my low doses that prevented me from going through any kind of withdrawal. Also..at these low doses, I get small euphoric rushes from the buprenorphine(or rather its metabolite norbuprenorphine)...which help me stay clean and my mind off of abusing illegal drugs.
*Also..the fact I only take such tiny doses a day means I have TONS of leftover bupernorphine which I can save for the future so I dont have to worry about getting off of suboxone for YEARS and YEARS if I dont want to...even if I stop going to my sub doctor. This is good because I get other good side effects othe than euphoria from the subs...like energy, general happiness, mood lifter, etc....
Also...I use my lefover suboxone to give to some of my friends addicted to heroin who really wanna quit but dont have the financal resources to join a sub maintanence plan so I simply give them there daily doses, and make sure there not using illegal drugs or doing illegal things...this makes me feel good that im using my drug abuse experience to help others get clean*
Last edited by jamesBrown; 04-09-2010 at 07:32.
It's funny that you mention those low doses gave you a euphoric rush. This is the only thing that is really keeping me going on this taper even though I'm letting myself withdraw for a while before my next dose is that euphoric rush that I get despite me lowering my heroin doses. It's at least something to look forward to while I'm tapering down the doses but despite that, the low half life is having me feeling anxious and a bit depressed at night before I get to sleep and requiring benadryl at high doses (four pills) to get me to fall asleep. So it's definitely not an easy taper as other people have mentioned. Tapering heroin isn't fun at all considering I'm getting pretty bad withdrawal between doses and having to take sleeping pills at night to calm my anxiety and depression so I can at least get some sleep before going through another day of low dose heroin and another cycle of anxiety then withdrawal in the AM and throughout the first 1/4 of the day. But nonetheless it's working since I purposely did this to experience some withdrawal to ease the crash on final withdrawal...my body will be anticipated and ready to a certain extent. Anyway, I might even quit before that who knows...the way things are going I really want to stop and I might quit before thursday simply because I really want to go to the hospital to get my arm and hands checked out...even though the tingling is very very mild I still notice it and it has me worried. My finger tips are very mildly tingly. And this is a big reason why I'm so anxious at night because when you are experiencing mild withdrawal the idea that one migth have caused serious damage to their arms that might require amputation can make a person a bit insane. It's got me pretty damn anxious every night since I started feeling this mild tingling. No discoloration or anything...not like my hands are turning blue and black but still got me worried cause I had some shots that really hurt a couple times in the last 3 months...like a shooting pain as the heroin was travelling up my arm which I didn't expect which turned into a rush and the pain was gone quickly but it's still strange that it happened a couple times. But anyway, despite that anxiety inducing fear that has me popping benadryl to sleep every night, I'm going at this quite well and surprised that many people can't taper...it's not as hard as I thought esp. if you really want to quit. Thanks again brother, you are a big help and I'm going to keep updating this every day even until I get to my post acute withdrawal phase where I'll be attending meetings and seeing a counselor to prevent me from relapsing. I need to keep in touch with all you great people including you buddy so I can get through this. I'm tired of having to shoot up every day to prevent withdrawals and tired of lieing and finding new ways to borrow money and repay people mostly was my dad...louzy excuses like I had to buy books for school which I did but I always left some money for the drugs...or other stuff like doctor's visits etc. Just exhausted of this life...it's not a life to live, every day worrying about getting through the day and finding a fix and worrying that I may not find a fix or worrying that I might get busted while I'm copping a score in the ghetto....whatever it is...it's always some bullshit that has me tired and depressed overall and ready to stop cause i need to resume my normal life.
Im not sure if you understood...I was talking about low doses of SUBOXONE giving me a euphoric rush not heroin....if you knew what I meant, then I guess im the one confused here.
Anyway...im glad to hear your doin relatively well, seems like you have strong will-power, and thats important......allthough I wouldnt reccomend stopping the taper early no matter how good you feel about it...it could very easily result in a relapse one way or another...i think you should stick to the plan and do your best, changing things up and quitting faster than planned could possibly put you at certain risks that you should try to avoid when detoxing off of heroin.....I know this from experience. Allthough I know you have alot of support from family and even if you did relapse, I am confident you will be strong enough to continue your detox.
And for your sleeeping problems, and general anxiety from the withdrawals...I recommend valerian root extract, which you can get at any local pharmacy or similar store. Its sold as an OTC herbal "relaxant" or something like that....in my opinion it helps alot and isnt expensive.
Also....I totally understand all that stuff about wanting to quit that shitty lifestyle and eventually lead your life to a better place. I was basically homeless for a while because of my heroin addiction...I also lied, stole, got arrested on several occasions, etc....allll because of my undying hunger for more heroin. It was a MAJOR relief to be able to wake up in the morning and sit there, realizing I dont have to lie, steal, or cheat to get a fix for the day, just so I can function normally. Nor do I have to make sure I have heroin in my system in order to get any kind of sleep. Those feelings.....they let me know that there was a light at the end of the tunnel, and it felt better than any shot of heroin I ever had.
Im not saying that adjusting back to living a sober life will be easy,....its definitely tough, but the rewards are truly endless and in the long run you will be a much happier person for it and you will be able to show the world who you really are and what you can contribute to society.
stay on the path your on and I am confident you will come out of this a better person for it.
Once again, let me know if you need ANYTHING,
Btw James, I did understand that you meant suboxone. I feel like a total jerk typing this because yesterday I broke off the plan and stupidly did three bags instead of two because it was my birthday and my friend gave me money I really shouldn't have in my hands. But i did three bags when I should've done 1 or 1 1/2. I'm not going to let it screw everything up and I'm on 1 1/2 bags today and I'm just gonna keep on going. The withdrawal between today's dose and yesterdays was obviously much less cause I did more yesterday than I should have so I'm pretty disappointed in myself but I'm not going to let it discourage me too much and I'm going to keep on tapering as promised. Tomorrow I'm going to do 1 1/2 againa nd then the day after jump to the anxiety inducing ONE BAG and keep going down from there. Whatever, I messed up nothing I can doa bout that now except keep moving forward. Tapering on heroin is definitely very difficult and my whole stupid it's my birthday I want to have fun mentality got to me especially since I was starting to feel very anxious around my friends on only a bag yesterday so stupidly when i got more money i got two more and just shot htem. I feel like it was a waste too cause since I already had a one bag shot earlier, I felt literally no rush....it's weird how that works with me but if I have a second shot in one day I feel no rush just no withdrawal for longer. So I'm an idiot. But I have to keep on moving forward and I'm goign to keep on posting on this until I have gotten down to nothing and start withdrawing and then I'll keep posting because I'll have nothing to do and I'll be scared and anxious. I'll need to be productive mentally so this board will really help me. I will also do my best to keep my mood up by watching comedy and listening to uplifting music as much as possible. I doubt it'll make that much difference since the withdrawal from IV is so damn bad but I have to have a game plan that doesn't involve wasting time and doing nothing. I have to do my best to keep my mind active and my body as well because if I just lay there and do nothing the withdrawal will just last way longer. I know cause that's how it was when i withdrew a long time ago...the less I did, the worse it got. Once I started making myself move around day 3 and doing exercise listening to music, it got exponentially better and my withdrawals were at bay completely by day 5. Anyway thanks for being there for me guys, I'm going to keep at it, I can't let this mistake fuck everything up.
Ok so I'm at one bag today...took it just about 30 min. ago (5:45 pm), the rush was pretty minimal but it was still there doesn't seem like my mistake this past weekend has increased my tolerance like crazy and ruined everything I worked so hard to achieve in terms of tapering my doses per day from 5-6 down to 1 bag today. I feel good that I'm only using one bag and I can handle it, definitely happy about that despite beating myself up mentally for messing up this past weekend I can't let it ruin everything as I said before. So...so far so good. One bag...going to do one bag tomorrow as well and then after tomorrow 3/4 bag until I get down to 1/4 of a bag of which I will then cold turkey from there...should make a huge difference, I can't wait until this is all over with. Tomorrow I'm also going to go to the free clinic in cook county hospital to get my hand checked out cuase I have these little brown spots on two of my fingers that are a little more brown today (on the tips of my thumb and middle finger) than before and my whole left hand feels somewhat odd...not numb, very lightly tingly, sometimes feels like there is too much blood being pumped to my left hand leaving it feeling kind of bloated and very lightly tingly...my pulse is still going strong on my left hand too I don't know if that means anything but I believe all this was caused from accidently IVing into an artery a couple months ago cause I did a shot once that I didn't feel anything from and I felt some pain as shooting and the blood was unusually lighter than usual....I hope this isn't serious. This is what kept me from doing cold turkey almost two weeks ago cause I was so paranoid and scared that I might lose a limb or something and those thoguhts running through your mind while withdrawing is just too much to handle mentally as if depression isn't bad enough already while withdrawing, which realistically might still be a possibility and I've been trying to make myself accept it just in case and cause if I don't I'll be even more surprised and depressed if amputation is necessary. I really hope and pray to God that I didn't cause that kind of damage. We'll see....I'm just glad I'm down to 1 bag which is a huge accomplishment for me. Just got to keep on going that's all. =)
Man do this.
Use what you want. If you think tapering will work. When you're done getting high.
READ BELOW FOR NAUSEA !!!!
Ondansetron its given to cancer patients, and preg women. It took my nasssstyyyy illness away earlier this week and I was thinking about how useful those could be for wd and why no one has mentioned it. Maybe they have and I'm using a big name. Its super good. It will take the nasty ill effects away after about 15 minutes 20 tops. It works real well and it even comes in these dissolve flavored tabs you can put under your tongue. I want to know more one this one.
Good luck bro, I lost my girl over drugs, don't lose the love of your life over them too. You will regret it. Peace and love. H killed me twice, but still alive thanks to friends that knew CPR and both times < 1 bag. Crazy huh? Don't fuck with it after Thursday, for her, and most importantly, for you.
Thanks for the advice man, I would really like to get seroquel...that would be a godsend for me since I know how much I crave sleep when withdrawing but it's almost impossible with heroin withdrawal even if I taper I'm sure it'll still be hard. For now still have clonidine on the side and some ativan so that should definitely help...don't want to take ativan more than once and only at night when I do withdraw and clonidine shouldn't be bad to take throughout the day 2-3 times a day. But even on that stuff, I don't really sleep. But I still have some time til I get to cold turkey day...I am going to the hospital on wednesday to get my hand checked out instead of today. I will ask to get some seroquel...maybe they will prescribe it, I really hope they do. Would be a nice add so I can get through it. I am already feeling like crap by the way at 2:43 am with only one bag of heroin today....I will take some benadryl to knock me out soon probably will wake up at like 10am 12 pm already going through some withdrawal for sure. But tomorrow well technically today again on one bag then 3/4s the next day! I am determined to do this even though I slipped one day...it's still further than most have gotten to tapering heroin and I only have ten dollars in my pocket which is PERFECT since that's all I'm allowed to have to get my dose. Thank God my father is supporting me and keeping an eye on me. Makes tapering so much easier even though the craving is bad to have more and the withdrawal between doses and severe depression I wake up with makes it very difficult. I can see why people can't taper...it's obvious but it's the only way I see myself getting to cold turkey without having serious issues with cold turkey so I can finally get through it with more manageable symptoms instead of doing what I did before haha...4-6 bags a day to nothing...OUCH. Ok...I'll be back tomorrow to reupdate on my second day of one bag of heroin a day...then so on.
You are absolutely right bro...that's exactly why I'm quitting, it hasn't taken my girl from me yet...but it will, but it already is taking away my love for life...it's gotten that far...9 months of using heroin and clean period before that and another 12 months of using will do that to ya....it makes you sick and tired eventually. I'm at that point where I can't take using anymore...an as easy as it is to relapse...it's all still worth it.
Honestly though, I'm more afraid of what's up with my hand than the withdrawal...of course I'm scared of the withdrawals but that always ends, my left hand finger tips have brown discoloration for a couple of weeks already and very light tingliness that comes and goes...it's so weird. Almost all my veins are shot....they are useless can't shoot them anymore so that makes me wonder if I caused permanent damage that might require amputation. That scares me so much right now it's not even funny. Even withdrawal seems liek a breeze compared to if that happened. But yea, I mentioned already that I'm goign to the hospital to get it checked out. Anyone have similar problems when IVing with very strange feelings in their hands...tingliness very mild....discoloration of a couple fingertips (like brown color)....hands feel totally different than before using...like they are always a bit swollen with blood but not always...comes and goes you know. I'm pretty sure I shot into an artery like an idiot a few months ago and I heard of symptoms that come many months later from that...I know cause it had no high, and it was bright red blood, pain but not as bad as some people say at all. I wonder if it was just a miss or maybe lower parts of arms have brighter blood...cause my wrist veins I used have lighter blood even though I know it wasn't an artery. not like my pulse is shot or anything thank God...pulse is strong but still has me worried. Or maybe I'm wrong....I dno't know. I've gotten shots into veins that hurt like hell too and I know those were vein shots cause it was dark blood and I got really high in the past. That happened a few weeks ago...as the heroin ran through the vein it hurt...it was odd. I don't know if any of this stuff is common...anyone have any advice or knows about this...tell me please.
im in chitown 2 in sw suburbs but i got a bomb connect fer h near 95th halsted bro