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Thread: Suboxone and Kratom (Mixing Them?)

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    Suboxone and Kratom (Mixing Them?) 
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    Bluelighter
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    So I came across a site selling kratom and after reading about kratom, and how in low doses it stimulates you, and in high doses it's more sedating. They claim in high doses the buzz or high can be similar to that of opiates. This next part may sound a little stupid but here it goes. I am currently on Suboxone, and will be for a while; however it sounds like it could be a good experience using these two in conjunction, because of the stimulating and sedating side effects, depending on how much you use. I can't take the clonazepam which I used to be prescribed to for anxiety, and I could see the Kratom helping my anxiety, thus chilling me out, since I can't take benzo's. Also since I started the Suboxone, I seem to have developed involuntary movements or "twitches" in lots of muscles in my body whenever I start to relax. Also when I'm starting to fall asleep I keep getting that falling feeling, and wake up because of it. It’s starting to get very annoying, so that is another reason I would like to try using Kratom, because it may help to relax me better and prevent these muscle spasms.

    Two main questions that come to mind about combining using Kratom and Suboxone together is that respiratory depression is something you have to be careful of when using Suboxone, and in order to stay on the Suboxone I need to be able pass drug tests, in order to get my script filled out for more than just one week at a time. Also I can’t keep having dirty UA’s (Urine Analysis), and I don’t know if Kratom would show up in any of the categories they screen for in the UA.

    Next if none of the above questions would cause any problems then the other thing that makes me think it may not work is because the Suboxone binds to the mU receptors, kicking away other substances that try to attach. The problem with using these two together is that the Kratom also binds to the mU receptors, which causes me to be concerned because although it is not an opiate/oid would it possible cause me to go into withdrawal or just not feel any of the effects of the Kratom if the Suboxone is already attached?

    Anyways I may add more to this in awhile this is just kind of an introductory to this idea, it’s been rattling my brain on whether or not I could try this or if I would be completely pointless, or dangerous in some way. Hopefully this can become an advanced topic; I’m trying to use a lot of detail, although I know I’m not using a lot of scientific terms. So I had to try, anyone with interest in this let me know your opinions, and if anyone comes across this who has tried it let me know your results PLEASE.

    THANKS A LOT!
    To all who have input on this I appreciate it a lot, in advance.

    I hope this can become a good discussion, I’ll keep on researching, and if anyone else wants to and put down some knowledge that would be awesome.

    Peace – Much Love
    Last edited by CLOUDnine420; 26-07-2010 at 23:56.
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    #2
    Bluelighter Z Y G G Y's Avatar
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    My guess would be that suboxone would bind a lot more tightly to the receptor therefore not allowing any of the kratom to work and making it useless. From what I understand kratom is pretty weak. Suboxone is a partial agonist that binds tightly to receptors. So while it binds strongly, its effects are not that strong, meaning they don't cause a lot of respiratory depression, euphoria or other opiate like effects. So I would think that when combining suboxone with kratom you would only feel the suboxone because the kratom would have very little chance at binding.
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    Fo sho.

    Thanks for the input, although this Kratom stuff is starting to confuse me more and more as I read more about it.

    P.S. Is it best to parachute Kratom or is it better to make a tea of some sort? I def. DO NOT want to try snorting it like some peeps are talking about. That seems like it would hurt.
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    I just toss 'n wash my Kratom. It lets you bypass the awfull taste and it's a quicker onset. But Kratom is hit and miss: some people find it worthless and others, myself included, really enjoy it. Though if I had access to real opiates/opioids I'd much rather do them.

    And snort ingKratom has got to be the stupidest thing I have heard.
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    Bluelighter edgewise1's Avatar
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    The only drug I know of that works well with sub and causes a great reaction, in my case, is tramadol. I've used kratom in the past; bali powdered, super indo, and red veined thai. The indo was the only one to cause a hydrocodone euphoria. But as already said, kratoms effect is at the same receptor that the suboxone will attach itself. I also agree that the sub would "push" the kratom off the receptor making it a waste of your money and time.
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    #6
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    alright thanks for the info. I actually just got done reading some stuff about taking trams w/ bupe, and a lot of people had good feed back on it. I'll prolly just stick to that to catch a little buzz, although normally tramadol doesn't do much for me, but I've never tried it with bupe.
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    #7
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    in my experience, kratom was totally blocked when i was on Suboxone. waste of money however, tramadols have the SNRI thing going for them apart from the weak opiate agonism, so that may well be what gives you a high while on Subs. Suboxone is VERY good at what it does in terms of blockade...overriding it is a miraculous feat and also possibky very dangerous because of risk of OD due to the extremely high amounts of whatever opiate you used to override the Sub. for harm reductions sake, i would absolutely never try and override subs, unless in an emergency and in a hospital with trained docs monitoring every vital sign. be safe.

    Fletchacet
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    Suboxone does not cancel out the effects of kratom 
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    Greenlighter
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    Ok I know this is an old post but after an hour worth of reading conflicting opinions on this, I decided to try it myself. I had been taking 2mg a day of suboxone for about 4 days, trying to wean down off pain killers. The sub kept me from getting physically sick, but just wasn't enough to keep me from wanting to turn back to my old ways on the fourth day. So it was either try the kratom and risk it not working or making me sick, or call up my dealer and let myself and family down....Again. Not only did it work just like it always has when I used it, but it kept me from turning back to those pills. So to anyone in that situation, suboxone definitely does not stop the effects of kratom and I recommend it to anyone that is trying to kick the evils of abusing pain killers.
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    #9
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    what dose of kratom did you take? I ask because 2mg is hardly a blocking dose, and with enough kratom (maybe not even more than one would normally have to take to get effects), they could definitely feel the effects on top of the subs. I know that I can shoot heroin and get high a couple hours after taking 2mg, no problem.

    However, I have heard a lot of conflicting information about this topic, the other day I did some research and found out that one of the alkaloids in kratom has a binding affinity 10x that of morphine, forget which alkaloid it was. I've heard people on 8mg or higher say that kratom is the only opiate that you can use on top of such dosages of suboxone, and other people that claim for them it blocked kratoms effects. I've often wondered if high dosages would block low dosages of kratom (for stimulant effects). I also have heard other people say that tramadol is the only opioid that you can get high on on top of suboxone, but whenever I hear that I wonder if they're referring to an opiate high, or a seretonin type high, since tramadol is also an SNRI or SSRI.
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    #10
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    I am sorry but 2MG/sub is 10x's stronger than any Kratom; so you are better off sticking with just the sub.

    I have only tried Kratom once while on Suboxone and it did nothing; my dose was a bit higher, maybe 6-8MG at the time but figured I'd give it a shot since its relatively cheap. well, nothing happened besides me puking because the Kratom taste like my ass (not that I would know what my ass would taste like).
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    Greenlighter Bkbanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMtrying View Post
    I am sorry but 2MG/sub is 10x's stronger than any Kratom; so you are better off sticking with just the sub.

    I have only tried Kratom once while on Suboxone and it did nothing; my dose was a bit higher, maybe 6-8MG at the time but figured I'd give it a shot since its relatively cheap. well, nothing happened besides me puking because the Kratom taste like my ass (not that I would know what my ass would taste like).
    I would have to agree with this. Sub is a strong opiod... Just think about it 2-4mg can keep you well in place of 60+mg oxy or a bun or two dope habit. If kratom is weak compared to most RX opioids, I can't imagine it outcompeting sub in sny way.
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