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    Tramadol to get off Suboxone 
    #1
    HI, this is my first time posting, so if you are reading this then thanks =)

    Before I ask my question let me give a quick overview on my drug history.

    Basically, I took Vicodin for about 5 years. First few years were slightly limited in use. Maybe 1 or 2 5/500s 3 or 4 times a week to get through work. But the past 2 years my use increased. I was taking on average 2-3 10 Norcos a day, though sometimes I went a few days without, and maybe twice a month I would binge and take 6-8 Norcs a day.

    My friend introduced me to Suboxone about 2 months ago. I have been consistently taking them for about 2 months. I use the ones that say N8, they are 8mg/2mg. I take usually a quarter of one twice a day, so that would be 4mg a day.

    My friends doctor just lost his license to give them out anywhere, so I have no way of receiving anymore.

    My questions are-
    a) How bad would my withdrawls possibly be since I was only on the subs for 2 months(never missed a day), and my vics addiction was limited to 2-3 norcs a day, but many times I only had them 2 or 3 times a week.

    b) would it be easier on my body to get back on vics and slowly taper off of them?

    c) his doctor prescribed him Ultram(Tramadol/klonodine(sp?) I am sure he would be willing to help me out if I needed them. If I were to go that route, how would they possibly affect me?

    Sorry for the long post. I have a full time job and 2 children, and I am scared to death of having withdrawls and being sick when I have so much to do. I will be honest, I would prefer to just get back on pain meds and taper off of those. A few times I had to go a week to 10 days without Vics, and while it was not fun, I never felt like I was simply going to die, but I am afraid the subs withdrawl might make me feel like this. Basically, I just want to feel ok. If Vicodin or Tramadol will help the wds for Subs, I would almost definitely go that route. I know many people will tell me to try to quit, which I understand and appreciate, but if my body would would be ok taking vics OR tramadol(not both), then please be honest and tell me.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance =)
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    #2
    Bluelighter thelung's Avatar
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    a) the w/d will be easy, don't worry
    b)no, don't start taking vicodin
    c)clonidine sucks and tramadol ...well its not that amazing, but you'll be fine . get some loperamide and some weed if you smoke the herbs...goodluck
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    #3
    Bluelighter Deluded's Avatar
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    Quit while you still can!!! Now to be realistic............

    Well, here are the factors.

    1. Buprenorphine is 25-40 times the potentcy of morphine. I do know that in europe and other countries that have the buprenorphine transdermal patch, they administer it at a 1.75 ratio to the fentanyl which is 80>< that of morphine,meaning its basicaly thought to be the latter at almost 40 times that of morphine. Its strange because unlike most opiates, there is a very wide spectrum on just how potent this one is.

    2.Tramadol is thought to be similer to codeine in potentcy, but in most users, its stimulating effects make these numbers hard to believe,as it feels like its about 2 times weaker than codeine at best.

    3. Tapering off with tramadol only to return to hydrocodone use when it becomes available is foolish.

    Now for what I think, I think you should quit, as will most others when yo start getting replies, this is because being trapped in the chains of opiates sucks moose cock. Your not ready to quit, only you can make that choice. So I say to go get some hydro. You might wanna consider going to see the doctor.
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    #4
    Tramadol is apparently really good for Opiate withdrawal (stopping the withdrawals with it's Mu Agonist properties and also for Post-withdrawal Depression with it's Serotonin increasing capabilities).
    So if you don't think you can handle going cold-turkey then yea, have a go taking some low doses of Tramadol (no more than 400mg a day and try take the lowest dose you can bare).
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    #5
    Lightbulb
    Quote Originally Posted by S4Leaguer View Post
    HI, this is my first time posting, so if you are reading this then thanks =)

    Before I ask my question let me give a quick overview on my drug history.

    Basically, I took Vicodin for about 5 years. First few years were slightly limited in use. Maybe 1 or 2 5/500s 3 or 4 times a week to get through work. But the past 2 years my use increased. I was taking on average 2-3 10 Norcos a day, though sometimes I went a few days without, and maybe twice a month I would binge and take 6-8 Norcs a day.

    My friend introduced me to Suboxone about 2 months ago. I have been consistently taking them for about 2 months. I use the ones that say N8, they are 8mg/2mg. I take usually a quarter of one twice a day, so that would be 4mg a day.

    My friends doctor just lost his license to give them out anywhere, so I have no way of receiving anymore.

    My questions are-
    a) How bad would my withdrawls possibly be since I was only on the subs for 2 months(never missed a day), and my vics addiction was limited to 2-3 norcs a day, but many times I only had them 2 or 3 times a week.

    b) would it be easier on my body to get back on vics and slowly taper off of them?

    c) his doctor prescribed him Ultram(Tramadol/klonodine(sp?) I am sure he would be willing to help me out if I needed them. If I were to go that route, how would they possibly affect me?

    Sorry for the long post. I have a full time job and 2 children, and I am scared to death of having withdrawls and being sick when I have so much to do. I will be honest, I would prefer to just get back on pain meds and taper off of those. A few times I had to go a week to 10 days without Vics, and while it was not fun, I never felt like I was simply going to die, but I am afraid the subs withdrawl might make me feel like this. Basically, I just want to feel ok. If Vicodin or Tramadol will help the wds for Subs, I would almost definitely go that route. I know many people will tell me to try to quit, which I understand and appreciate, but if my body would would be ok taking vics OR tramadol(not both), then please be honest and tell me.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance =)






    if u want to get off the opates i have some good advice....
    first decrease your sub dose by 2 mg. every 3 days.then u could go over to tramadol but, GHB is the best way to get off any opiate.
    you offcourse have to take get a week or so away from your job and kids, if you don`t know how u react to that substance. but in small doses you will be fully operational. remember not to mix GHB with anything else....meaning alcohol benzo opates especialy.GHB in contoled doses realy does the trick..but be carefull.good luck
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    #6
    Bluelighter Sublimit's Avatar
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    In my experience tramadol has done wonders with WD's that i thought would be hell. I tried it with effects and dossed pretty high at first (3days) then started to reduce for about a week, Benzo's are vital too if you want to cheat yourself out of a WD
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    #7
    Bluelighter
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    if you do a quick taper it should go well.. but remember tram is also addictive and has anti-depressant properties, so its not the easiest opiate to get off (for some)

    i would suggest you jut do a regular sub taper... take it slow and it shouldn't be that painfull...
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    #8
    : Used tramadol to jump off the sub-train.. got down to like 0.25 - 0.5mgs of sub a day and then eventually every other day. Just kept reducing time in between

    doses until it was like barely taking anymore. Tramadol + a Sleep-aid for the suboxone w/d work wonders... but im telling ya you HAVE to get down to at least

    0.5mgs-0.25mgs a day (maybe even every other day) so yeah its a bitch and can take awhile to finally get down to that kind of dosing....In conclusion, yes

    Tramadol works good for getting off of žub÷x˛ne !
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    #9
    Bluelighter InHerOwnWrite's Avatar
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    ^^^
    this was just about the exact way i got off of suboxone too- tramadol can definitely help, more than you would expect
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    #10
    Bluelighter
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    Cam some1 please post the method they used to get off of suboxone using Tramadol?? I have been on these orange pooper's for more than a year and I am tired of them, I have no insurance and they cost so much I feel I need to be done! I ordered some Tram's and I am ready I just need a good method. Like how much tram did you use to get off the sub?? Did u taper the tram after a few weeks just like the Sub?? I would appreciate any1 whom is willing to help me so much thank u!
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    #11
    Get down to the lowest dose of Buprenorphine you can (this will involve cutting tablets into quarters and then even crushing the tablets and dividing the powder into equal piles to get even smaller doses), then try go a day or 2 without anything.

    When you get on the Tramadol, don't take any more than 400mg due to there being a seizure risk, then taper... say.... 50mg every week or so.
    When yer down to the lowest dose of Tramadol you can get to (due to them either being tablets or more likely capsules), I would stay on that dose for a couple of weeks.
    Then start taking your dose once every 2 days, then maybe even every 3 or 4 days, or you could just jump off from there

    You may want to go on an Antidepressant afterwards due to Tramadol being notoriously nasty in that respect, but this could just be needlessly unnecessary.
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    #12
    Bluelighter
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    tramadol is an godsend for any opiate wd s. for getting off h they were better (for me anyway) than subs
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    #13
    Tram w/d's are worse than any heroin or other opiate w/d so be careful.
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    #14
    Bluelighter
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    Ok thanks so much for all the help. I heard tram w/d is retty nast also thats y I am only planning to use for 2 weeks tops just enough time to get past the nastiest part of bupe w/d.
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    #15
    I use getting off (detoxing) opiates for the metaphor of jumping out of the back of an airplane (your D.O.C.) with a parachute (tapering the bupe) and a soft landing pad (tramadol)
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    #16
    didnt read the whole post i got limited time but tramadol has nasty ass wd's including nasty depression because it affects the seratonin
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    #17
    what u should do, or should have done...is not get high off suboxone..

    suboxone is the only way out for an opiate addict, unles cold turkey'd..

    dont say methadone, u cant wean off methadone
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    #18
    If you haven't tried kratom, I highly recommend it. It is easily obtainable unless you are in Australia or a few other countries... The leaf is actually full of opiate alkaloids and while they aren't incredibly strong, they are certainly stronger than codeine IMO and work very well like something like codeine or dihydrocodeine would for coming off Suboxone. Suboxone is very strong and so finding a weaker opiate to step down to is a must in my opinion, and I personally have had great success with kratom.

    Regarding Tramadol, it is a bit different in it's action and I wouldn't expect it to only barely substitute for bupe. I think kratom or dihydrocodeine are the best two drugs probably for stepping off of buprenorphine maintenance, and I definitely recommend giving them a shot!

    Good luck, and be sure to keep us updated on your situation and ask any questions you may have. We have been through this and have begun to form a science on quitting bupe from our experiences on this forum. We can make this fairly painless, though it is a prolonged withdrawal, which is an unfortunate aspect to bupe.
    Last edited by Pegasus; 06-09-2010 at 03:19.
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    #19
    Yo trust me, Tramadol is the best substance out there to "ease" the w/ds from bupe for the first 2-3weeks. (just don't be taking 400mgs a day or you'll run out within a week probably lol).. Tramadol works good for easing bupe w/d pains b/c i think it has similar action in the 'anti-depressant' department.. As Buprenorphine also acts a an anti-depressant. In fact I believe it was first tested as a treatment for severe depression but sense it attached (kinda) to the opiate receptors the FDA would not allow it to be prescribed for severe depression (im talking like real depression where the person has gone through all other options).. I read awhile ago that some team at harvard did a experiment back in the 90s on buprenorphine and basically concluded that its the most effective anti-depressant known to man (not counting full-agnoist opiates guys!) but sense it had partial opiate activity the company found another use for it and that was Opiate Addiction Treatment. I have a friend that took sub for his depression only and said it was the only thing that took away his depression.

    Anyways all I am saying is bupe is a strange drug and so is tramadol and for some reason, unknown to man at this time, they work good together and for using tram to help the pains of bupe w/ds... Tramadol should be a standard for getting off suboxone.
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    #20
    Bluelighter Znegative's Avatar
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    I only read the original post, so forgive me if my views have already been expressed by someone else.

    The withdrawals are likely going to be worse than what you're used to from your hydrocodone use (assuming you were physically dependant?). Suboxone contains Buprenorphine (and naloxone, though thats not relevant at all unless we're talking about how the naloxone is a useless fear tactic) at a 4:1 ratio (bupe:naloxone). Buprenorphine itself is an incredibly potent (30x the strength of morphine, although it has a ceiling effect limiting continuous superior potency as the dosages of both drugs rise ) partial opiate agonist with a very long half life. So even though you've been taking maybe four milligrams/day, you've accumulated probably twice that amount of the drug in your system from all the past dosages which stack up on one another. I dont mean to scare the shit out of you, I just want to impress upon you as well as others, that despite the common misconception spewed out by pharmaceutical companies and other people that have financial interests in its success, that Buprenorphine (the active ingredient in Suboxone and Subutex is not a weak opiate, its in fact stronger (to a limited point) than almost all (if not all) pharmaceutical Opiates available (but remember, only to a limited degree, Buprenorphine's maximum agonistic potency is around 30-40mg of methadone, but it's active in the microgram dosages and .3mg injections are thought to be equal in potency to 10mg of IV morphine).

    I wouldn't bother getting back on the Hydrocodone. Your tolerance is way too high, and you'd wind up taking so much hydro to just maintain yourself and not be in withdrawal that it just wouldn't be worth the trouble.

    As far as the Tramadol goes, that I can't really answer. A lot of people swear it works with buprenorphine just fine and helps a lot with opiate withdrawals in general. IME Tramadol has always felt like a gross stimulant that lacked euphoria and its opiate properties were just too weak to put a dent in my withdrawals. But, like I said, many others report that Tramadol is a real life saver when it comes to opiate withdrawals and that its one of the few opioids that work with Buprenorphine (though I dont understand how that could be possible unless they attached to opiate receptors that buprenorphine didn't).

    Also, Clonodine helps as well. I never believed in the stuff until about six weeks ago when a friend gave me a few to ease my withdrawals so I could calm down when I went out to cop. While it doesn't just rid you of WD like methadone or Suboxone would (as they are opiates/opioids), it helps with some of the more irritating symptoms and keeps your anxiety a bit more in check. Gabapentin/Neurontin as well as its newer more potent relative Pregabalin/Lyrica are also medications that are very effective with opiate withdrawal syndrome and can really make a huge difference.

    If you can somehow get your hands on a few more strips you could probably set up a taper that would make things aa lot smoother, but after re-reading your post, and seeing that you've never really had a major habit before, I think that getting off the subs will be easier on you than it would be for folks who have withdrawn multiple times (it always seems to get worst and harder). One thing to know, is that IME, the few times that I quit suboxone, it took about two weeks until I began to feel improvement. It sounds like a long time, and it can get pretty nasty, but in the grand scheme of things its only fourteen days, and once you're in the thick of it you can start to accept and give in to it. I wish you luck with everything.
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    #21
    Sounds like you traded a very light hydro habit to a much stronger and difficult to quit sub habit. You increased your harm rather than reducing it, why? You'd been better off trying Kristin or loperamide. It's not too late though.
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    #22
    Bluelighter BlueHues's Avatar
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    Clonidine to ease your withdrawals when you go out to cop?! Goddamit that sounds pretty damn good to me right now! fuckin asshole! lol....

    Anyway, I don't wanna scare the OP, but buprenorphine is probably the worst thing to trifle around with to catch a low-level opiate buzz....That 4mgs a day might not feel like all that much, but it's a much more potent drug than your subjective experience of the effects of it would lead you to believe!

    Did you horse-fuck yourself by using 4mgs a day for 2 months?!.....well, for somebody who's already rode the opiate withdrawal merry go 'round a bunch of times, 2 months of 4 mg bupe would pretty much be like having someone bury you in a 10 foot deep hole and give you a toothpick to dig your way out!

    In your case, since you've never been through withdrawal before, it probably won't be that bad. You don't really know what to look for anyway, so you'll just probably be achey and tired for 10 days or so, no big deal....

    there's lots of other shit you could try to lessen the probably already mild WDs you'll go through....i'm not gonna go through the whole list, but 50mgs of tramadol twice daily for a few days, clonidine, loperamide, Ibuprofen, shit, maybe even alcohol!(although you'll regret it when you wake up)....

    You're really better off without anything even resembling an opiate in my opinion, because you can just end up playing "musical opioids" forever! 2 weeks of tramadol, 2 weeks of Kratom, 2 weeks of loperamide....you get all nervous about coming off all of them, and they're all partially binding to the same receptors, so you never really know where you're at until you stop taking all of them!

    You're better off going with a drug cocktail that's completely void of opioids...maybe some clonazepam, clonidine, ibuprofen, throw some diphenhydramine in there maybe!....It really doesn't fuckin matter that much, whatever gets you through the night! Literally!

    Just don't get yourself physically dependent on YET ANOTHER drug that you're using to get off the suboxone....hope you learned your lesson here, but you don't seem like a big, bad drug abuser like a lot of us, so it's understandable that you didn't really know what you were doing when you decided to take suboxone recreationally! You'll be fine! I won't, but that's my problem.....
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    #23
    Bluelighter
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    Holy shit man you traded 30mg hydrocodone a day for 4mg bupe a day? Are you insane? I shoot MINIMUM 5 bags of north jersey dope a day and 1mg holds me fine and dandy. Do you realize the amount of buprenorphine you are taking is insane compared to what you WERE taking?

    You went from a dosage with little to no withdrawals to a long acting super potent opiate which will cause major physical dependency. I feel bad for you man. You may have not had a major physical dependency before but at 2 months that ship has sailed.
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