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Secret of AA: After 75 Years, We Don’t Know How It Works

I have always felt that the Reason AA works is due to the fact that, Drug addicts and alcoholics need something to do. They need a new addiction of sorts. By joining alcoholics anonymous you join a family and a community. This makes it so every time you see these people you are accountable for your actions and they also give you support if you need it..

By going every week you make it part of your life and daily habbit or weekly habbit. Either way you are accountable to the people you see every time you go. and sooner or later you make freinds and then you become use to hearing that being sober is sooo nice and your life will get better if thats the path you pick. so once you have been faking it for a while it slowly but surely will become who you are and want to be.

everyone around you is doing the same so you all want the same thing. everytime you go it is a reminder for the fact you have an addiction issue and that you are fixing it. Everytime you see people struggleing you realize were you are and you try to help them and by helping them it causes you more of a need to stay clean because if u dont u will not have the right to help the people around you in AA that at this point you care alot for..

So AA is replacement theropy for addicts, IT brings you around people who can teach you things that you need to know to stay sober.. It makes u accountable for your addiction with the people you see at AA and you know they are sober and care about u and want you to stay sober so some times thats enough to push someone to stay clean.. AA never gives up on someone and if they have then that group of AA folk is not normal AA. AA loves its people and wants nothing but the best for them.. It gives you a family and support that alot of addicts have either lost or destroyed so once they have a new support system and people they can trust and relay on, and one they are sober.they do not want to mess up this relationship so this can also help keep them sober...


ANyway good luck to anyone trying to stay clean. if your having truble for reall just go to 3-5 AA meetings a week and you will notice it becomes a rutein and once youdo that for 9 weeks or so you will become able to slowly start going less and you will know the right number for you to stay sober... some people go every day or more then once a day . but alot of people after a while only go twice a week or less.. It really becomes something you dont mind doing and you even enjoy ... goood luck people.. Realize that Your higher power is not god. it can be god but for alot of people your higher power is w.e you need it to be to make you be sober. for me my higher power is the AA group i go to. ITs the feeling of caring that I get from the People i see at AA. Its the storys I hear and the messege I have learnt about how to stay sober and what it can give me in my life ....
 
A quick reply, that I've lived personally during a snowstorm, it only takes 2 people to have a meeting and it can be anywhere. Mine was in a bus station. So, while many of us appreciate the history, its the daily "action" that works for most of us. And instead of the big meetings where you know everyone, when there's only 2 of you and you don't know the other person and she has no reason to trust you, that's when AA can (notice I didn't say "did" or "always") shine.
 
Hopefully, being a long time member on this board will give me some credibility here. I'm working the AA/NA program now. I'll be the first to say that the standard NA and AA meetings are a total free-for-all and do not work for me. The big book of AA was the only thing that did, and i'm not talking about open format meetings where people talk about how bad they were. I'm a solution oriented person and positive person. That saying "Meeting makers stay clean" is a bunch of bullshit. If I had to go to a meeting a day for the rest of my life I would have to shoot myself.

I'm not sober today to stay miserable. I seek balance in my life, and a meeting a day is not balance. I don't seek to replace one addiction with another. To me, that's not what the program is about. It's about finding something larger than yourself to give your will to in order to have a sense of inner peace and to put the past behind you. The big book says "resentments are the number one offender" and I wholly believe that statement to be true. My resentments had me wanting to kill myself everyday.

Today, I'm happy. Not just saying that i'm happy. But, I have balance in my life. The true goal of the program for me is to do just that. To be restored to sanity and have addictive and destructive behaviors replaced with love for myself and those around me. To live harmoniously to the best of my abilities.

I don't understand why people bash this program so much, it works for some people. And there is a lot of misinformation floating around in those meetings with people who are clean for 20 years but not sober. And there is a difference. If I was a dry drunk/user for 20+ years...no 1 year. I would have no reason to stay clean. I seek sobriety, and the other people in the program who have good sobriety. This program is wide open to interpretation, but if I do it how the book says to do it and don't tailor fit it to what I want it to mean then it works.

If I thought the program was just to get off drugs I would have been sadly mistaken. It's about change, changing completely and fearlessly to have a better life than the one I had before. And, trust me when I say not waking up with a hangover ever again is a gift I never thought possible.

AA is not about sticking to the program and only being around people in the program for the rest of your life. It's about being able to live your life, the life you've always wanted and always dreamed of. So if you want to work the program, find the people who have the life you want, and the balance you seek instead of the people who exhibit the extreme behaviors but are just off the drugs.
 
A "dry drunk" is a.a. speak for someone who GIVES up drink/drugs but without doing the 12 steps. They obviously dont like this thought of this, so they create nonsense sayings like" dry drunk". someones either pissed or their not.
I went to a.a. for years then stopped and (more or less) since then ive not drank for approaching 5 years, they would say im a dry drunk, unbelievable and somewhat sad (as it plays on the vunerable like other fundeamental/evangelical religion) that people fall for this shit
 
But realm--WHY turn your will over to something/one else?

Your fears....your worries....your anxiety....your struggles...OK, that I understand.

But your will?

Thats why i will never be a 12 stepper.
 
No, that's wrong. A dry drunk is someone who stopped drinking but is miserable about not being able to drink instead of being happy and grateful that they are sober. Did you listen to anything at all when you went to AA?

donnie080208 said:
A "dry drunk" is a.a. speak for someone who GIVES up drink/drugs but without doing the 12 steps. They obviously dont like this thought of this, so they create nonsense sayings like" dry drunk". someones either pissed or their not.
I went to a.a. for years then stopped and (more or less) since then ive not drank for approaching 5 years, they would say im a dry drunk, unbelievable and somewhat sad (as it plays on the vunerable like other fundeamental/evangelical religion) that people fall for this shit
Click to expand...
 
@afterglow " No, that's wrong. A dry drunk is someone who stopped drinking but is miserable about not being able to drink instead of being happy and grateful that they are sober. Did you listen to anything at all when you went to AA? "

A "dry drunk" is exclusively an A.A./12 step saying , there is no such thing , you either drunk or not.
Also a dry drunk has become mainly a derogatory term for alcoholics who gave up without a.a.

Have you ever thought many alcoholics have serious mental issues that need medicating or PROFESSIONAL counselling , ( im sure there was a survey at some rehabs and well over half the women patients had been abused .)
The predators / bad advice and following the teachings from a book by some bloke called bill (who took l.s.d and talks to god) is not the best treatment plan for the vast, vast majority of the worlds damaged addicts in the 21st century.

Its faith healing religion call it what is please, not nonsense spiritual program and fellowships.

GODS MENTIONED MORE TIMES IN THE 12 STEPS(6) THAN THE 10 COMMANDMENTS! FACT, HOW IS A.A. NOT A RELIGIOUS BASED PROGRAM ? ITS LAUGHABLE PEOPLES DENIAL OVER A.A.'S HISTORY AND THE PEOPLE WHO LITERALLY MADE ALL IT UP.WHY SHOULD I TAKE ON BOARD ANYTHING THAT BILL W. OR DOCTOR BOB HAS WRITTEN? ANYONE?
 
So can you please explain to me how it works?

I find it hilarious that addict's are the only people who when asked "Would you rather die or be spiritual?" have to actually sit there and think about it.

I hated god.

But, have you ever given god a chance? My definition of god is just "g.ood o.rderly. d.irection". What's so hard about that?

Get over being jaded...it's not a respectable quality in a person.

Lacey: What exactly is your will? Do you feel like you own it? How far has your will really gotten you in life? What has having control over your will really ever gotten you? To me it's a relief to say "god take this from me...i fucked it up...do what you want with me". And my life is amazing now and getting better everyday. I didn't give my will up to AA i gave it up to god. AA was just the tool to introduce me to the concept.
 
Shit realm, my will is how I got to bein over a year clean off dope. Lack of will has brought me to some of the worst places. But it aint nothin but my will that has brought me back from there. Wat has it done for me? got me clean, got my life back together. My will, determination, discipline, faith, internal strenth, resilience--thats the things that got me to the better place i am at today. It has brought me everything good that I have achieved in my life. my drive to succeed, my will to keep myself working even when I wanted to give up, all these things are how I got to where Im at.

I aint one of the people who dont believe in a higher power. I believe in god all the way. But god helps those who help themselves. Having faith and belief that I aint alone, that I am here for a reason, that all this struggle and pain and all that, wasnt for nothing, that i been thru it all as part of a bigger puzzle, as just somethin to teach me for my greater purpose in life....All that has helped me along, but I am the one responsible for my success and where I am at now. i had help along the way, from my family, from the love of my life and soul mate and now the father of my son, from the pure good luck and blessings that I been lucky enough to have, and help when shit got hard, from my faith and belief that there is a bigger force out there lookin out for me. I aint sayin it in a arrogant way, like I take all the credit or w/ever. It aint like that. But im just sayin--Nobody coulda done this for me. Nobody coulda got me here except me. it was my responsibility, and it took me long enough to finally (wo)man up and take it, but once i did, it was all up from there.

It IS my choice if I use. it IS my choice the way I choose to live my life, it is my choice if i am gonna be a fuckin dopehead or ima be clean, all that shit, its on me. it aint on god, it aint on no higher power. its my decision. I am the one calling the shots. I absolutely KNOW, without no question in my mind, that I will not use tomorrow. There aint no question, there aint no 'wat if", there aint no doubt. it aint thru the grace of god that Ill stay clean. its thru me and my choices and my will to continue living the happy blessed life that I am livin now. When people say "well you are an addict--you cant know if you will relapse, etc" I cant relate to that in no way at all. I CAN know, and i DO know. When I was on dope, i gave up my will. I gave up my will to dope and to that life. i didnt care, i just didnt give a shit and i knew exactly wat i was doing. i was feelin the sweet relief of lettin go, of givin up, of just lettin myself fall down and down and down and just not caring. The whole time I lived as a dopehead, shootin that shit in my veins all day , THAT was my life WITHOUT my will.

Now that I got it back there aint no limit to the things I can do with myself, to the success that I can achieve, I know that shit. For me, to turn over my will is somethin that has never done a damn thing for me except send me down. I am most proud that I got it, that I am able to USE it and HAVE the choice, to exercise my will in my life and feel the freedom of makin my choices again instead of lettin addiction make those choices for me. I aint givin up that shit again, tell you that much. The powerless, will-less shit is the exact opposite of how i want to life my life. Ive had way better success as a self-made ex-dopefeen than i ever had tryin any other way. it took me, to decide it for myself, on my own, and use my own willpower, to get my way out of it. i couldnt do it before, becuz i had lost my will, it was gone, i had no control of it. Once i got ahold of it again and held on tight, it was the pure , raw, uncut force of stubborn-ass willpower that got me out of that fuckin hole.

I aint saying that addiction is just a character defect, that only people who are weak willed, etc, are addicts. Thats bullshit. i hate hearin when asshole knowitalls try and say that you only stay addicted cuz you weak, etc. But im just sayin that for ME personally, after so many years lost in a sea just floating without none of my own will, without determination or any strenth to do anything, without the drive or ability to follow thru with the smallest thing...the inability to even TRY to get clean....i got nowhere...but once i finally was able to regain that will that i had lost, it gave me the strenth to improve the REST of myself, all my other defenses against addiction--discipline, determination, strenth, drive, hope, faith, etc--they came back to life, and all of those things put together with the will to keep going is how I got free from that shit.

I know for absolute certain that I never would be here without my will. Its a positive force in my life not a negative one.
 
realm said:
I find it hilarious that addict's are the only people who when asked "Would you rather die or be spiritual?" have to actually sit there and think about it.
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Your evidence for this statement is ???? Sounds like the kind of unproven drivel one might here at a meeting to me. It has a number of pre-suppositions. A)addicts are a special group different than any other B) That spirituality is actually a significant factor in addicts surviving an addiction C) That it is an either/or situation (get spiritual or die) D) That there aren't any other ways to recover.

Thank you for illustrating the kind of a priori nonsense that often goes hand in hand with joining "the program".
 
My evidence? Almost everyone at my treatment center had to sit there and think about it. And I think you're taking the term addicts in the AA/NA sense of the word...I'm just talking about someone addicted to a substance period.

You can break down a simple statement all day man.

I wasn't trying to argue that everyone here should work the steps, I was simply saying how 'the program' worked for me and what i've seen. Furthermore, by no means is AA/NA the only way to stay clean.

It's funny how when someone come's on here talking about AA/NA people wig the fuck out. Really, at the end of the day it's exactly how Lacey said. What works for her works for her. And what works for me works for me. Really, I don't give a shit what you do or don't do. Stay high, stay clean. Either way I have nothing but love for all of you.

I get the feeling people hate on AA/NA so much because they just didn't want to get it that way. I've been a non-conformist my whole life and it got me a heroin addiction, so for me it was better to try someone else's way.
 
@realm and other 12 steppers

If you think god is interested in self -inflicted , drunken, drug addicts and" lifts the obsession to drink" while he lets kids starve and be abused (through no fault of their own) then your deluded. alcohol/drug addiction has nothing to do with being spiritual (i.e. the 12 step religion), many non addicts shit on people and do evil things but dont turn into alkys or junkies(i.e. not "spiritual").
Also either a.a. works or it doesnt, its unjust and dishonest to give the 12 steps credit for someones sobriety but when in 99 percent of cases it doesnt work ,they then blame the addict (with sayings like "they havent had enough/ didnt work the program " etc).
Im all for self help groups but A.A. is immoral, based on religion/god, and worst of all passes judgement on addicts and promotes wallowing in guilt and regret.
Show us some stats that the 12 steps works realm , like you would be able to do for methadone and other treatment methods. why shoul a.a. be given a free pass and be excluded from providing figures showing their sucess rates.? it should be banned from being promoted at treatment centres etc.. untill it provides this imo
 
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First off, type with some spaces in there man. I don't even know why i'm responding to you, you obviously already have your mind made up.

I feel sorry for someone who see's life so black and white. Take some acid or something and open your eyes dude, see some color. Also, please read what I said before misquoting me.

If you think recovering from addiction is a one size fits all solution, and it either works or doesn't work you are the deluded one. Some things work for some people and some things don't. Which is why AA/NA is introduced at treatment centers. It's just one of the many tools introduced to people who are hopelessly addicted.

And, why do you need stats? What in this life has a 100% success rate? The fact of the matter is we go through many failures until we succeed.

Also, for fuck's sake man...are you just going to listen to everything that's told to you as fact? You just re-iterated the popular misconception that i'm trying to de-bunk. At the core of AA it says nothing about a meeting that should be composed of guilt/wallowing. Really, a meeting should be solution based, it's the majority of people who turn it into group therapy and unload all their problems on a room full of unsuspecting people who think that's what it should be. Talk about the solution or get the fuck out is how I feel about it.

You get recovered whichever way works for you. If you need 12 step, therapy, or just fuckin' listening to the same song every time you get the urge to use, by all means do what you gotta do. But, if you're filling a spiritual void with drugs like I was...god worked for me. And, this is coming from a hardcore acid head, heroin addict, and PCP lover who has used drugs for more than half of my short 24 years on this planet.

And real quick...why do you take such offense to AA/NA? Is it because it didn't work for you, and some crazy dope head gave you a judgmental look? Gimme a break dude. All I see is someone judging another addict, not an addict being judged. Look inward before looking outward to unload a bunch of nonsensical bullshit with no basis.

When I say to a room with 50 people in it that 1 person will stay sober, and if you think you're that person raise your hand....why do 30 people raise their hand?

I said 1 person would make it, not 30...it's all bullshit. Really, everyone in that room can make it if that's what they truly want. Stop looking to statistics for reassurance. For some it works and others not...find another way if it didn't work for you. What have you got to lose? It's fucking free. Do you bitch this much when someone gives you a free hamburger at McDonald's? I bet you just shut the fuck up and take it...then do you bitch because you got a free burger and it didn't have any pickles on it? Keep finding shit to complain about and you'll find yourself pretty lonely pretty quick.
 
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@realm "And, why do you need stats? What in this life has a 100% success rate? The fact of the matter is we go through many failures until we succeed. "


Sorry i was abrupt my rant wasnt really aimed at you as such.But of course we need sucess rate stats its how all treatments and medication for any illness works.
I dont expect AA /NA to have 100% success rates but it should be more or less equal to other methods such as methadone, antagonists, other therapys etc.. if not it should be discouraged in treatment centres and the like. Why are 12 steppers so scared of providing impartial information and stats ? I d love to be proved wrong, that its sucess rate is worse than doing nothing. I wish it helped addicts but the sad truth is is mostly does more harm than good.
 
Yea realm not for nothing but I think he was just pointing out that AA/NA has far from a 100% success rate....Having even a 5% success rate would be nice....But all scientific evidence shows that its under 1%.

I think his issue is with the fact that a program that in reality has a terrible , atrocious actual rate of working, is the NUMBER FUCKING ONE, DEFAULT PROGRAM used as the first treatment , all over the world, and that in esp. places like the US its institutionalized, you can be forced, court ordered to go to meetings, etc--and when you disagree, when you dont "work the program", they give you a bad report, say you dont realy want to get clean, etc, and tell your PO that you fail at rehab, etc.

The way that people who dont "take" to the program, get treated like they are just people who dont really want to get clean, by the majority of the legal and treatment community, when the rate of success of teh program is so low, is somethin that pisses alot of people off.

When i saiy that shit, it aint about you personally or against you personally, in no way. Its just that there is some pretty big flaws with the program and the way its pushed, in the US in particular--it basically got a fuckin monopoly on treatment, you can find like 10% of treatment centers and rehabs across the US that DONT use the 12-steps--its like "THE" way to get clean, and it dont deserve that reputation in alot of our opinions. YOU as a member aint treating it like the only way--YOU aint pushing it on us, etc, but the atmosphere in this country and the way that the program is seen as the only way for people who are "serious", etc, and anybody who goes against the ideas of the 12 steps gets looked at like a fuckin quack, is somethin that i know at least I got a problem with and i bet that is part of wat donnie is gettin at aswell.
 
The thing about that success rate is AA/NA with their 1% have more people staying clean than pretty much anything else out there. I know it's sad. Trust me. Most of the people I was in treatment with relapsed their first day out. I did when I got out of a non 12-step treatment center my first time too. I don't think it really matters what kind of treatment you get, the percentage of people who stay 'sober for life' is going to be low for a long time.

Trust me I know how sad it is that people who want to get clean just can't. A lot of us die in the process of trying to find something that works too. That's why there are so many options.

I also agree completely that AA/NA should not be court ordered and there are a lot of judgmental people in there. They are people, it's not just in AA/NA, it's everywhere. People judge. Fact of life. It's even more sad when it happens in AA/NA though, because they should know where you're coming from, but a lot of them forget where they came from.

I have a lot of grudges with open AA/NA as well, believe me. I was court ordered to go and I didn't get it until other things took place. AA/NA is only one part of my program though, I don't plan on going to meetings for the rest of my life. That to me would be counter-productive.

I'm going on a tangent now.

The only thing I really wanted to illustrate was that it works for some. The success rate is completely irrelevant, unfortunately we don't have anything better as a mainstream, acceptable, and probably more importantly FREE, treatment program.

Things will be changing in the next 5 years though, mark my words. Treatment and rehab will take a massive turn for the better as far as approach, and success rates go. People are starting to really focus on the failure and shortcomings of treatment centers as a whole, and something will come about to really shift the power away from AA/NA. I really do look forward to it.

There are a lot of people out there who need help who didn't find it in AA/NA, and that is the majority. I really want nothing but to see those people live amazing lives, the lives they always dreamed of. I don't think too many of us here dreamed of becoming broke heroin junkies and institutionalized alcoholics. I think the most important role of a treatment center is to revitalize lost dreams in people, and allow them to have a life that doesn't revolve around negative/destructive behaviors.

I'm not saying were all addicts here guys. But, the ones that are...it sucks to see them living so sub-par. We're all capable of so much more than what we give ourselves credit for.
 
"The thing about that success rate is AA/NA with their 1% have more people staying clean than pretty much anything else out there. I know it's sad."

This isnt true though is it, all available stats show the 12 steps is one of the worst treatments available

"I don't think it really matters what kind of treatment you get, the percentage of people who stay 'sober for life' is going to be low for a long time."

Sorry to pick holes but of course it matters what treatment you get, n.a. openly claims methadone doesnt work when its proven to be the best "life improver" for most addicts.
plus like your saying most just get sober because they have had enough ,but if they went to a 12 step program it takes credit for these "spontaneus remissions"(and blames the addict , not the program for failures) also the low AA stats are from addicts who reach being sober for 1 year, in A.A., its a very low figure indeed. the orange papers site is one of the best for an in depth rebuttal of a.a. teachings and history
 
The methadone argument really isn't vaild. I'm sorry but it's not. Methadone may keep you off opiates but what about everything else? I was on suboxone for a while and it only kept me off heroin. I still used other drugs, therefore it's not really treatment for poly drug abusers.

Also, this 1% AA/NA success rate is just hearsay. If you read the main article in this thread you'd know that. There's no way to really know what the success rate of the program is.

Before I get attacked for this last post regarding methadone, it's just my opinion. I was a junkie and suboxone didn't work for me. For some people it has, more power to them! If something works then why stop?
 
raver2008 said:
Pretty interesting article. A few ppl I know are trying to get me to attend meetings with them because they work so great for them, but I dont know if I even belive in god so I cant see it helping me any. Are most group meetings all basically the same in which some sort of god or whatever is what there based around?
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you definatly dont have to believe in god to make the program work for you.
I did it and i dont believe in gawd...
I higher power can be almost anything its just to help you .
The support of the people and being around clean people is what makes it work..
 
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