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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
Novel Beta Keto Phenethylamines
- Thread starter Morninggloryseed
- Start date
Slapdragonx
Bluelighter
Your questions are worded awkwardly. The first one is not decipherable.
helium-4
Bluelight Crew
He is throwing a pitch.
dread
Bluelighter
Because N-OH phens are not very stable either?
Besides why would you want to make BK-phens? Tryptamines would make more sense IMO.
why? afaik the uk is the only country i know with a anti-bk law
so it does make sense making bk if you want to produce legal substitutes.
but i dont really get why you would make the n-oh analouge. i think i read somewhere that they autodegraded to the nh2 originals so it would be a useless waste of time
so it does make sense making bk if you want to produce legal substitutes.
but i dont really get why you would make the n-oh analouge. i think i read somewhere that they autodegraded to the nh2 originals so it would be a useless waste of time
bad idea,
dimeric oximes form readily even more readily than the imines that cause cyclisation in cathinones.
the metabolites of these will be BOB type compounds betahydroxy phenethylamines which have spectacular cordiovascular properties.
some fuckwit vendor trawling the forums for the next compound to exploit will probably run with it and so it goes on.
dimeric oximes form readily even more readily than the imines that cause cyclisation in cathinones.
the metabolites of these will be BOB type compounds betahydroxy phenethylamines which have spectacular cordiovascular properties.
some fuckwit vendor trawling the forums for the next compound to exploit will probably run with it and so it goes on.
Phener
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2010
- Messages
- 251
how about throwing on a ?glycine (minus OH) molecule on the end ALA midodrine...?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midodrine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midodrine
superluminality
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2010
- Messages
- 21
Indeed, MGS.....why not? 
Sounds interesting to me.
I always did love my phenethyls.....you may remember I was a "pioneer" of smoking/vaping 2c-class RCs back in the day when I was still primarily a psychonaut and not a sick gimp just trying to get through the day/function enough to do right by my family (my kids first and foremost).
I found that in small, sub-psychedelic doses, there is only a mild "color brightening" effect, a mood boost, and a novel form of pain relief. These days I could certainly use the latter....and the second item is certainly of interest as well. As for the "fun" effects, I mostly couldn't give a shit except for the rare shamanistic exploration that might help me cope with my illness and life in general better. My "experimental" psychonautic phase is long since past. These days all I care about is improving my generally wretched quality of life, and avoiding anything (such as opiate dependency -- about to try Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone as a weapon in that war, with fingers crossed) that makes matters worse.
This particular family of molecules appears to have some serious issues down the metabolic chain, from what Vecktor has said....but I'm still very interested in anything in the Phenethylamine class that might be as good or better than 2-c-t-7, my old weapon of choice, for people with severe chronic pain/illness.
Lately I've been playing around with DL-Phenylalanine, both for the boost in enkephalin levels via the D-isomer and for the neurochemical precursor L-isomer's benefits. I wonder what a combination with the right phenethylamine(s) and L-Phenylalanine might be like in terms of allowing me to better endure an otherwise soul-crushing flare up....
Sounds interesting to me.
I always did love my phenethyls.....you may remember I was a "pioneer" of smoking/vaping 2c-class RCs back in the day when I was still primarily a psychonaut and not a sick gimp just trying to get through the day/function enough to do right by my family (my kids first and foremost).
I found that in small, sub-psychedelic doses, there is only a mild "color brightening" effect, a mood boost, and a novel form of pain relief. These days I could certainly use the latter....and the second item is certainly of interest as well. As for the "fun" effects, I mostly couldn't give a shit except for the rare shamanistic exploration that might help me cope with my illness and life in general better. My "experimental" psychonautic phase is long since past. These days all I care about is improving my generally wretched quality of life, and avoiding anything (such as opiate dependency -- about to try Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone as a weapon in that war, with fingers crossed) that makes matters worse.
This particular family of molecules appears to have some serious issues down the metabolic chain, from what Vecktor has said....but I'm still very interested in anything in the Phenethylamine class that might be as good or better than 2-c-t-7, my old weapon of choice, for people with severe chronic pain/illness.
Lately I've been playing around with DL-Phenylalanine, both for the boost in enkephalin levels via the D-isomer and for the neurochemical precursor L-isomer's benefits. I wonder what a combination with the right phenethylamine(s) and L-Phenylalanine might be like in terms of allowing me to better endure an otherwise soul-crushing flare up....
/navarone/
Bluelighter
What would happend if we exchange the oxygen in cathinone with a sulphur?
I have a feeling long-term stability would be an issue.
Also, if the parent compound has a sufficiently low molecular weight, it would probably smell/taste horrible.
To answer the OP's question, the N-hydroxyphenethylamines are quickly metabolized in vivo to form the regular amine; the unsubstituted amine will probably be present as an impurity AND a metabolite (so you'll be subject to analog laws)
fryingsquirrel
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 2,805
But if the unsubstituted cathinone were as legal as the the N, hydroxy version that wouldn't be an issue. The OP has the N, hydroxy cathinone version of DOC, I assume the point is not to make a legal version (though it probably is), but to explore a new psychedelic. Presumably one with a shorter duration than the amphetamine version.
/navarone/
Bluelighter
Also it would be way to polar to cross the BBB. Cathinone already has some serious difficulties crossing that barrier.
/navarone/
Bluelighter
Yeah I already imagines that sooner or later the sulphur would be switched biologically with and oxygen or a hydroxy like in a particular benzo where the keto has been switched with a sulphur.
Though im pondering on possible advantages/disadvantages on its (nor)adrenergic activity before metabolization starts.
Also..who cares about taste and smell, all drugs taste like crap in some way.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Well, we'd still have the issue of difficulty of synthesizing bk-, primary-amine phenethylamines through 'the usual procedures' (at least in a way where the compound doesn't decompose in the final steps), and then the issue of degradation in storage (eg, think of how quickly cathinone degrades to cathine in khat).
So we want a substitution at n which undergoes little degradation in storage but that is either very quickly and readily metabolized in vivo or that doesn't affect the activity of the compound compared to its analogue which lacks said n-substitution.
Someone else suggested lysine, but IMO, time release isn't something we'd want here.
Also, to what extent can we infer activity from Shulgin's BOX series?
ebola
dread
Bluelighter
IIRC the beta-methoxy substitution increased potency of 2c:s but also produced alarming side-effects. The ketone may or may not work in a similar fashion...
/navarone/
Bluelighter
Why not a beta methoxy then....it is much better tollerated and has better adrenergic effects (eg: phenmetrazine).
Or even better why not 4-methyl-2,β-Methylenedioxylevoamphetamine?
Or even better why not 4-methyl-2,β-Methylenedioxylevoamphetamine?
MurphyClox
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,416
^My guess is that this one wouldn't be active orally. The acetal undergoes hydrolysis in acidic environment. - Murphy
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Fuck it. Just make beta-keto-PEAs. Figure out a way to make large quantities without forming the dimer in the process. If khat can do it, then you can do it.
/navarone/
Bluelighter
Then why doesn't this happend with MDXX?
PS: there are plenty of ways of intaking drugs, and orally is one of the worse ones due to bioavailability issues.
This compound PROBALY has an active dose between 20-80mg....good enough to be taken sublingually, endovenously (obviously), nasally and even rectally if you like to stick things up your arse.